Shame to cut it, it was a great scene. I'd leave it in. I'd also add the extra scene where Bower kills himself. I know it's implied, but I wanted to see it. That would have made for a great scene. If a producer comes along and doesn't like the scene or thinks it'd be too costly then he can cut it. I doubt it would actually put somebody off though. There has to be a way to pull it off cheaply enough.

I will check out one of your latest scripts. If you can recommend one to read I'll take a look tomorrow evening.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Shame to cut it, it was a great scene. I'd leave it in. I'd also add the extra scene where Bower kills himself. I know it's implied, but I wanted to see it. That would have made for a great scene. If a producer comes along and doesn't like the scene or thinks it'd be too costly then he can cut it. I doubt it would actually put somebody off though. There has to be a way to pull it off cheaply enough.

Indeed, I thought it was cool. Bower takes so much punishment throughout the script, this felt like a fitting coup de grace. I cut it because dealing with live vultures would be a pain in the ass for any production but especially for the (at the time) interested parties.

I suppose I could incorporate Bower offing himself. I figured the knife was a cold enough gesture to make the impact but I don't think showing it would take that much away from it. The script is already so violent, it certainly wouldn't be out of place.

Quoted from DustinBowcot I will check out one of your latest scripts. If you can recommend one to read I'll take a look tomorrow evening.

My last feature was Left Hand Paths. It's a coming of age drama with some horror/Satanic elements. I'd like to rewrite it at some point as it's still only a few drafts in. Any comments on that would be a help, for sure. It's definitely a slower, more atmospheric script though. Not like Red Storm at all.

I've also got a romantic comedy called Love You To Death. That one's way more easy reading. It's got an indie/hipster-ish feel with a *slightly* dark/morbid edge to it. Not exactly a Hollywood picture.

Any shorts after 2009 would be fair game as well, I expect.

James,

If you converted to Celtx or some kind of screenwriting program that is a little easier on the eyes I would be more than glad to read a handful of your features.

I read The Outsiders a long while ago and was not a big fan of the use of Word.  I don't like the look of it.  It's a strain on the eyes.  In fact it's probably the number one reason why I haven't read anything else of yours -- even when I wanted to.


-- Steve

Quoted from Guest James, If you converted to Celtx or some kind of screenwriting program that is a little easier on the eyes I would be more than glad to read a handful of your features. I read The Outsiders a long while ago and was not a big fan of the use of Word.  I don't like the look of it.  It's a strain on the eyes.  In fact it's probably the number one reason why I haven't read anything else of yours -- even when I wanted to. -- Steve

I understand where you're coming from, Steve, but I'm probably not going to switch to screenwriting software. I tried to switch to Celtx for the last OWC, couldn't stand it, and wrote the script (Familiar) in Word. If I could cut and paste scripts from Word into Celtx instantaneously, I would but I haven't had much luck with that; seems you can only cut and paste in chunks.

What I'm considering doing in the future is to cut and paste scripts into Celtx whilst writing them in Word but at this point, I think I've adapted my writing style to the point where it's basically the same as in screenwriting software. Indeed, Red Storm and Outsiders both have outstanding issues that are difficult to overlook but if you check out Familiar, you'll see that the dialogue is written *exactly* the same as it would be in Celtx (test it out if you want). Action margins in Word are off from Celtx by a single letter. That's pretty close to insignificant right there.

At this point, I think the only truly discernible difference between my scripts and Celtx is the font of the page number. Otherwise, you'd have to be actively looking for something off. Of course, not all of my scripts posted on SS have been updated so that they look up to snuff but some of those scripts are so old, they're basically crap anyway. The first script I ever wrote is still posted here, for example.

Can't stand Celtx. Won't pay for Final Draft or whatever. I've been using Word to write scripts for eight years and get totally jammed up by all the auto-formating and such when I find myself using screenwriting software for whatever reason. I seem to have developed a reasonably good system for writing at this point. If you've got any other suggestions on the subject, I'm honestly down to hear them.

Nevertheless, I appreciate the interest. And again, I do understand where you're coming from.

You know what, try bolding the text and send me an e-mail.

I'll see if it looks better on the eyes.

LOL. I thought you were talking about the format being a strain on the eyes. Whole different story there. Let me see what I can do.

haha Send me a couple of your features in bold text, if you can.  I'll check 'em out.

Cool, man. Will do.

Quoted from James McClung Indeed, I thought it was cool. Bower takes so much punishment throughout the script, this felt like a fitting coup de grace. I cut it because dealing with live vultures would be a pain in the ass for any production but especially for the (at the time) interested parties. I suppose I could incorporate Bower offing himself. I figured the knife was a cold enough gesture to make the impact but I don't think showing it would take that much away from it. The script is already so violent, it certainly wouldn't be out of place.

If you were the viewer would you want to see it? Ask yourself that. That's the kind of scene people remember and tell their friends about. You can't leave it out, it'd be a sin. It's probably the most memorable scene of the whole script, IMO. It's so fitting that we see Bower get what he deserves... unless you write a part two and somehow he survived.

Quoted from James McClung My last feature was Left Hand Paths. It's a coming of age drama with some horror/Satanic elements. I'd like to rewrite it at some point as it's still only a few drafts in. Any comments on that would be a help, for sure. It's definitely a slower, more atmospheric script though. Not like Red Storm at all. I've also got a romantic comedy called Love You To Death. That one's way more easy reading. It's got an indie/hipster-ish feel with a *slightly* dark/morbid edge to it. Not exactly a Hollywood picture. Any shorts after 2009 would be fair game as well, I expect.

I'll check out Left Hand Paths then. I do like coming of age dramas now and again.

Hi, new here, writing a western myself which I'd like to post when done. Found this website a few days ago and thought it'd be good practice to read and look at a couple scripts here for motivation and help. Just some thoughts while reading through.

I don't understand what Willie's time with the boy is supposed to show except Willie has a gambling problem and he owes some money to Sherrif Black. Since you are jumping around anyways it might be better if we actually SEE Willie borrow the money from Black, and SEE Willie somehow go back on the deal. Also, I'm not sure why Willie wants another mouth to feed since the boy is just a tag along here. I'm guessing the boy does grunt work for him but with what you've described the child just seems to be audiance for Willie. maybe show Willie teaching him something to show part of him cares for the boy? Even if its badly?

Why would the bounty hunter kill Willie and leave? He can't collect the bounty I assume without proof of Willie's capture or demise. Here the bounty hunter kinda shoots himself in the foot.

Too much charecter description at times. It doesn't matter if lebeaux wears a red pinstripe suit. just saying fancy or expensive clothes works.

I like that Lebeaux collects and shows off ears. Why not give him more to show it's not a recent hobby?

Page 23, so Red Storm is a bounty hunter. I wasn't sure up until this point because so far you've only written him as the town drunk. Maybe show him bringing in a bounty early so we can see him in action and know for sure? Hell, maybe upon payment he walks straight into the bar and orders his whiskey. Two birds, one stone.

Why is Red Storm taking up this bounty again? Whats in it for him? Only money? it must be a lot considering he's been forced to do something he doesn't seem interetsed in doing. But you don't show us the carrot.

So Loretta met the barber. She better have been scalped and she was so I'm happy. Before she goes into her flashback have her take off the wig, to show us she really has. Also, the flashback is too long. Cut out the chit chat, show us the goods. unless there is some valuable clue in the conversation that turns up later, ahem, cut it.

Page 30. I'll get back to it later when I can.

Hey Cameron. Thanks for giving this a look.

Quoted from CameronD I don't understand what Willie's time with the boy is supposed to show except Willie has a gambling problem and he owes some money to Sherrif Black. Since you are jumping around anyways it might be better if we actually SEE Willie borrow the money from Black, and SEE Willie somehow go back on the deal. Also, I'm not sure why Willie wants another mouth to feed since the boy is just a tag along here. I'm guessing the boy does grunt work for him but with what you've described the child just seems to be audiance for Willie. maybe show Willie teaching him something to show part of him cares for the boy? Even if its badly?

Willie's time with the boy is intended to show how Red Storm was shaped into the person he is for the main story. He hates the world but plays his part in it. He hates money but places importance on it in his own way. There's something else too but I'll wait until you finish the script to get to that.

As for Willie taking the boy in, I figured he'd use the boy in his schemes, make him do grunt work as you said, and perhaps teach him to be a full-fledged "partner in crime" at some point. Admittedly, his motivation wasn't properly thought out on my part. It's barely been brought up in other reviews and the fact that Willie doesn't play a large part in the script at large has led me to overlook it, I suppose.

That said, in hindsight, none of this is really necessary. I could easily have started the script with Red Storm as an adult. I do think there's some insight to be taken from it and given the way Red Storm is developed throughout the script, I thought a prologue of sorts would be of help. At the same time, I wanted to write something epic and wasn't too concerned about how verbose the script would be so I included a prologue. This is a script I wrote primarily for pleasure so naturally, there's been a few loose ends to tie up in developing it into something more market viable, if you will.

Quoted from CameronD Why would the bounty hunter kill Willie and leave? He can't collect the bounty I assume without proof of Willie's capture or demise. Here the bounty hunter kinda shoots himself in the foot.

Did this happen? I don't think so. Willie was tied to the back of the horse and drug along with the bounty hunter.

Nevertheless, this brings up the issue that by the time the bounty hunter returns to his destination, Willie might be too tore up to be identified.

Quoted from CameronD Too much charecter description at times. It doesn't matter if lebeaux wears a red pinstripe suit. just saying fancy or expensive clothes works.

Fair point. Overwriting has always been an issue of mine. I've been working on it over the years. At this point, I think if I can't write sparingly the first time around, I can definitely tighten things up with a rewrite.

Not sure what's wrong with mentioning a red pinstripe suit though. It's not a glaring embellishment, I wouldn't say, and if the director or whoever doesn't like it, they can scrap it.

Quoted from CameronD I like that Lebeaux collects and shows off ears. Why not give him more to show it's not a recent hobby?

That'd certainly be fun. I'll think about it.

Quoted from CameronD Why is Red Storm taking up this bounty again? Whats in it for him? Only money? it must be a lot considering he's been forced to do something he doesn't seem interetsed in doing. But you don't show us the carrot.

This'll come about as the script moves forward. I should also note that this is not the most current version of the script; I've expanded upon this considerably since.

Thanks again, man. Look forward to the rest of your comments.

I had a somehwhat similair problem with the protagonist in my script as well. I just observed that we see Willie gamble twice and whore up once. Besides being a little stereotypical they don't do anything for Red Storm. Perhaps if those scenes were seen from the boy's perspective? As it is now, the begining is more about Willie than Red Storm. I would think yo'd want the opposite.

I misread the bounty hunter part. It seemed like Willie and the horse just took off into the night leaving the rest behind. Simple fix, just have the bounty hunter ride the horse with Willie dragged from behind.

Something else that bugged me, for being a unknown stranger it seems a lot of people have heard of Red Storm in the begining. I don't know why the mayor would release a random drunk indian from jail for a special mission if he is a stranger. Unless he is looking for a patsy.......

I was hoping to read more today but won't able to. I'll get some more pages in tomorrow and see where this goes.

Ok, reread the Loretta Barber scene. I was rushing through it yesterday, read better this time. I still think she should remove her wig at some time. Give her a scarf to hide her neck scar.

Thompson and Bower's explanation of why Red Storm must be stopped is very forced. I'm not sure how you could show the audience this but the way it is written now is not good.

How does Red Storm end up at Springwood? What trail of bread crumbs lead him here? He finds the Barber too easily.

The Barber wears the scalps???? That seems..... odd. I think people would notice if you walked around town wearing a scalp, especially a man wearing woman's hair. I guess it's creepy in a Buffalo Bill Silence of the Lambs kind of way. I think he might need a bigger hat to wear instead of a bowler to cover those scalps. He angry at god for his male pattern baldness?

The Barber has Red Storm at his mercy and just lets him go? He cuts up prostitutes but lets the man sent to kill him go? Have Red Storm knee him in the balls, or police come break them up. Have Red Storm in desperation pull off the scalp and throw it, the Barber freaks out and panics, grabbing it while running away. Red Storm looks better and gives us a look at how warped the Barber is.

Page 54, how does Red Storm know to find Saul and Angus? How does he know that they would know where the barber is? Putting his barrel into the gunshot wound is a nice touch though.

Page 62 and the Barber is attacking another girl. The problem is this is the 3rd time we've seen this scene already. Change it up or cut it short. All we need to see is the Barber and the girl going up the stairs. We know what will happen next.

So Grey Elk and Red Storm part ways? I must have missed the point. What purpose does this serve in the story? Red Storm knows where to go already, the Barber told him. I thought maybe Grey Elk would help root him back into his heritage but no, all he does is act as his waiter, serving him deer.

How does Bower know to head to White Chapel???? I thought Bower was supposed to save the Barber from Red Storm? now he wants to kill him? Red Storm makes a hell of a shot on Bower. I didn't know he was such an amazing marksmen because all he's done so far is get into fisticuffs it seems. Again it seems forced because there is no build up, no hints of what he is capable of.

Bower should be able to hear. the ear canal is in your head, ears are just skin.

Page 88, Red Storm was hit point blank by a shotgun but is able to fight lebreaux on the next page?

LOTS of black text towards the end. Honestly I just skimmed it and still got the gist of it all.

My two cents. This is quite the offensive story you have here. Every woman is a prostitute, and the main character is a walking stereotype, a drunk Indian. I'm not sure how this will be accepted. The beginning had some promise but afterwards the story is just an excuse to hurry from plot point A to B to C. Nothing really happens. Everybody shows up just when they need to, they spend too much time talking about the plot instead of acting it out. The Barber is nothing but a religious nut that we've seen many times before. Some of the characters are interesting like Lebreaux and Loretta but a lot aren't. Every prostitute in the script seems interchangeable. But my biggest complaint is Red Storm is a boring character. He doesn't change at all during the course of the film. Half the time it seems he should be tanked but he always acts sober. I'm still not sure why he goes on this mission. What’s to say he just skips town once released? Lebreaux has nothing to hold over him to see the job done. The way its written is that Red Storm has it in for Lebreaux, but why go through all this if he could just come back and kill him at a later time?

I know you've made some revisions since the OP so a lot of what I've said could be out of date. Develop Red Storm some more, he's your hero, we want to root for him on some level, right now I don't see why we should give him anything but pity. Pair him up with Loretta to hunt down the Barber. Make the Barber hard to find. Show us your story instead of having characters on screen tell it to us. Again, the beginning is interesting but it falls apart during act 2 and never recovers.

What changes have you made so far?

Hi Cameron. Thanks for finishing this.

I'd like to address all of your comments eventually but don't quite have the time right now. I'll try to do so later tonight.

I will however address a few things at the moment.

Quoted from CameronD My two cents. This is quite the offensive story you have here. Every woman is a prostitute, and the main character is a walking stereotype, a drunk Indian. I'm not sure how this will be accepted.

I've thought a lot about this and honestly, I'll totally concede to it. In my defense, I'll say that I didn't write this with the intention to be mean-spirited or exploitative. I wanted to write something brutal and nihilistic. Still, regardless of intent, the script is more than a little exploitative. Even beyond the stereotypes, I think most of the characters are sort of cartoons. I'm not sure why all this is but I expect it was carelessness and perhaps being somewhat misguided in my writing.

The story centers around a Native American character and prostitutes being murdered. I don't plan on changing these things. But I would like to scale back on some of the blatantly exploitative elements if I can, ideally by writing more well rounded characters.

Quoted from CameronD The beginning had some promise but afterwards the story is just an excuse to hurry from plot point A to B to C. Nothing really happens. Everybody shows up just when they need to, they spend too much time talking about the plot instead of acting it out.

I'll concede to this as well. Far too much convenience pushing the plot forward. I'd definitely like to fix this at some point; I certainly don't like reading it in other people's scripts.

There's a lot of talk as well. I'd also like to scale this back. I do like dialogue scenes and felt that there was enough action in the script where the two balanced out but perhaps not. Like I said earlier, overwriting always been an issue for me and I'm still working on remedying that.

Quoted from CameronD What changes have you made so far?

The biggest changes I've made so far are making Red Storm a more well rounded character. I initially intended to write him as more of an enigmatic character who you really don't figure out until the end. I've received much flack for this. It isn't working so I've had to go back to the drawing board.

I've also been working a lot on the Barber's character. Indeed, he's just a religious psychopath as of now. His new character is a little more complex and some of the new elements I've introduced call into question whether or not he really is religiously motivated.

He and Red Storm have a lot more interaction as well. A lot of their characters come out through their conflicts with each other. I think the Barber's almost become sort of a foil for Red Storm but I'd like to scale that back so both can be their own characters.

I've also streamlined the story a lot. The convenience is still there though. I suppose that's next.

Overall, I haven't worked on this script for quite some time. I wrote it in 2009 and don't look at writing the same way anymore. Coming back now, it honestly feels like a huge mess. But perhaps salvageable. I've come back to older scripts and had to admit to myself that they were not. But I think there still might something here worth pursuing.

Thanks again, man. Will get back to you on your other comments in further detail when I can.

You don't need to respond to all of them. I'm not sure what your intentions are for the script and I did notice this was posted years ago. It just seemed to be the script at the top of the boards that had the most comments on it at the time. I did this as much for me as for you. Thought it'd be a good exercise to critique someone else's work in helping me critique my own and I think it did. I've been working on my own story for going on 8 years now off and on and have just recently made it a goal to get it finished by Christmas. I'd like to throw it up here and get some feedback when its at a level I feel comfortable with. Thanks for your feedback as well.