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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Banker Boy Moderators: bert
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  Author    Banker Boy  (currently 4086 views)
Don
Posted: December 1st, 2005, 7:08pm Report to Moderator
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Banker Boy by Spencer McDonald - Thriller - Wren Ryder is a disgruntled bank employee who robs his bank on a whim and lands in a taxicab to make a get away only to find out he is riding with a serial killer. - pdf, format


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thechillman
Posted: December 13th, 2005, 9:15pm Report to Moderator
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I really enjoyed reading the script. It was enjoyable, and the two main characters were intriging to me. The ending was a little "Bait"-like with Jamie Foxx at the track with a couple Federal agents looking for the bad guy.

But i still enjoyed the script. I thought the end-ending with Banker Boy & his money was a good twist.

I reccomend this script to people, as it was pretty good compared to other scripts on here.

THECHILLMAN - Out
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Jaykur22
Posted: December 14th, 2005, 12:27pm Report to Moderator
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Mr. McDonald

I read through your script, and  I thought it was very good.  Your two main characters were great ideas.  I read the whole thing, which I can't say about many of the scripts I've read so far.  This is my second post so I apologize for any rookie mistakes ahead of time.  The story kept me interested all the way through, and I don't like to read.    But I assume the reason you post is for feedback so let me get rolling here.  

You may find some of what I say nitpicky I apologize, I'm just telling you what I noticed, and what thoughts went through my mind as I read.   As with all responses from a stranger do whatever you feel is right.  

On page 33 you have Wren say, something like your not that serial killer.  I think you did a good job showing it and the line may not be necessary.

On page 42 you have someone's head getting stomped in, I don't understand what that scene is all about.  Is it a flash forward in time, or a day dream.  I was confused with that.

On page 63 Give=Gives

On page 66 you write there was 2 million in cash in a suitcase.  I've done some work at college on the topic of money laundering, it would be extremely difficult to fit that much cash in a brief case.  I've also worked with guys who used to work for Brinks armored car, and that much cash doesnt normally come in huge bills that would fit in a brief case.  Normally its the massive gray bags you see slung over their shoulders.  I realize this is a movie, but I wasn't sure how realistic you wanted to be.  I feel it works in your story, and isn't essential but maybe you'd want to know.  

I forget where the cigarette scene is: where the cop offers a cig to Wrten, but Wren says those will kill you.  I think that would work a lot better if Ray offered Wren the cigarettes with the same response.  Possibly some comedic relief after a horrific killing??

As a random note, I feel like you had 2 opposite characters.  You have an intellectual and a serial killer.  Wren should have some education/intelligence.  While Ray is the exact opposite, he's most likely psychotic and streetsmart.  There were times when I felt like you switched characters on me, sometimes Wren would say something Ray would say.  ray was always Ray.  I felt Wren should be a smart guy, and act a little more educated, especially at the bar on page 51, and page 70 with how he deals with the  cops.  Maybe you don't agree, that's cool.  I'd like to know how you feel about that that point though.

On page 87 peace=piece

A note on serial killers.  Normally if its not a spree killing (ie mass murder in an office building) the guy has an MO and he's normally sociopathic.  I could recommend some books on the topic if you'd like to do some reading on them.  It seems to me that you hit the nail on the head for the most part with Ray's behavior.  However, sociopaths don't form bonds with any human beings, that are truly loving.  They do what's best for them and what entertains them.  When Ray cries cause he shot his sister it seemed slightly out of place, however maybe he hasn't become a full-blown sociopath at that point.  For the story it was cool, but it also gave Ray a side that I could connect with and I don't know if that's what you want the audience to do.  If he's not a sociopath yet, I think the audience needs to know what did it to him, parents? abuse?  something has to screw this kid up.

Also regarding MO (modus operandi) serial killers are very regular people, they kill the same way quite often.  They set up situations that end similarly everytime, because they've spent a huge amount of time thinking it through (cause they get off on the daydream).  They're planners, because killing is what excites them as you said, during Ray's dialog at one point.  With that said you use a couple of different methods of killing, as a character I didn't see Ray as someone who just goes nuts and kills.  He plays games, games that he thinks about, he challenges people and f*cks with their head.  That's what gets him off.  With that said I wouldn't stray too far from the way he killed the first two women.  The bible concept is cool, along with his using the knife.  According to "experts" the whole knife deal, its a penentration they get off on the it.  I don't necessarily agree with that, I imagine they are just comfortable with one kind of weapon so that's what they use but either way its the same means to an end.  Stick with the knife or the gun, Ray may play games with people but that doesn't mean he just kills randomly and with whatever is within his grasp.  He's had at least 6 months to pefect his fantasy, a normal serial killer gets very good at killing, through practice.  They normally practice the same way perfecting their fantasy over and over.  

Speaking to the Bible concept, the circling of the passage was very cool.  It definitely spoke to some deep seeded guilt, or something really wrong with this guys subconscious.   I dont mean to sound preachy about serial killers but most of the time it's not a learned behavior.  The whole deal with the father killing, and Ray seeing it seemed less interesting then where I thought you were going.  I thought you would tie church or religion into what broke this character.  Something about sinning (possibly a sexual/physical abusive by a preist or rabbi).  That's where I thought the bible issue was coming from, I thought that would be a truly unique angle.  What I'm saying is the bible is a great idea, but I dont see the point of it being in the story if the reason Ray kills is because of his father's example.  Bottom line I feel like you need to flesh out why this kid started killing, and what kind of serial killer he is.

Lastly I respect your clean language but cops don't talk the way I read in your dialog.  To me those were  the most akward dialog scenes.  Most cops are ex-military.  It seems strange because of some of the words they use to describe how crazy Ray is.  I think you could pull it off without swearing but it be tougher.  Most cops have a pretty twisted sense of humor.  You could replace cursing with that humor.  They might say that Ray is kookoo for coco puffs or something like that, but words like malarky seem wierd to me.  Though it could be a language difference between where I live and the south.  I'm not sure about that.  


Please don't feel like I ripped you apart in the preceding paragraphs, I understand you are trying to tell a story not a biography.  It seemed to me you were so close to being realistic that that must have been your goal.  If not take my comments with a grain of salt.  

Thanks for the cool story

Jaykur22


Mason: "Are you sure you're ready for this?"
Stan Goodspeed: "I'll do my best."
Mason: "You're best. Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and f*** the prom queen!"
Stan Goodspeed: "Carla was the prom queen."
Mason: "Really?"
Stan Goodspeed: "Yeah!"
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spencerforhire
Posted: December 16th, 2005, 4:01am Report to Moderator
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Jay

First I want to say thank you for reading my script. This idea (story) started back in July and I finished the seventh rewrite in late November. It was my first full length script. Your comments are well taken.

1. The story held your attention. Mission accomplished. Now if I can just get an agent to take enough of their attention and read it as well.

2. Page 33. Wren saying "you're not a serial killer are you?" Just wanted to give the audience something to fear for Wren. They know Ray is whacked out and a killer, but Wren doesn't know yet.

3. Flash Cuts. When you see a FLASH CUT that is a prompt that you are seeing a dream, past, or future. I have a few flash cuts in this script. I tried with the dreams to portray a bit more of the internal workings of the character. Wren is a killer in his head only. He dreams of harming people he doesn't like but would never be the aggressor. Ray, on the other hand, dreams of his past. Real dreams or nightmares about his fathers blatant disregard for life. This was suppose to be the motivation for Ray turning out how he did. Oh and by the way, I put the sister thing in their so the audience could sympathize just a bit for Ray as a child. Maybe give just a glimps of why he is what he is.

4. I like you notes on Brinks and $2,000,000 dollars. I had no idea. The dollar amount can be changed.

5. On serial killers. I am not an expert by any means. I wanted to paint a vivid picture of someone who was ritualistic in his trademark and not necessarily his method of killing. His trademark was leaving RAY carved on his victims foreheads as a calling card. Also, I tried to develop his character a bit by making him bi-polar. One minute he was happy and laughing and the next psychotic. IE, the mini-mart scene.

6. On the bible. You got it. I was hoping for guilt. I did not expand on the issue of the bible much because I didn't really want to turn the script into a biblical issue. Only wanted to use it to show guilt and to show how bank robbery (stealing) and murder are both sins of equal value according to the ten commandments. I like your idea of a priest abusing Ray as a child. Oooooh. Anyway I was hoping the audience would assume that Ray learned these things from his mother who was killed by his dad.  I guess I missed the mark there.

If you liked the script be sure to tell a friend to read it as well. I am entered in a contest with this script now. As well, I am attempting to get agent and a sale. Hey if you know any agents, film producers, or own a movie studio let me know.

Again, thank you so much for your critique. I really appreciate it.

Spencer McDonald


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Breanne Mattson
Posted: December 17th, 2005, 3:57pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Spencer,

I’m reading your script. I’m not able to read it all in one sitting as I usually prefer but so far I enjoy it and I’m excited to see where it leads.

There are a couple of things snagging me a bit as I read, though. I just thought I’d offer a few insights so far.

You’re abusing the beats. There are way too many of them, most of them unnecessary. So many, in fact, that it disrupted my reading.

I’m not quite sure what you’re doing with the POV’s. You write, for example, “Wren’s POV” and then don’t tell us what he’s seeing. The next line will tell us something like he shrugs his shoulders. We can’t see what he’s doing and look from his point of view at the same time unless he’s looking in a mirror. Or like, for example, Michael Meyers in Halloween when he reaches for a knife out of the kitchen drawer and we see his hand from his POV. You do this several times. I’m not sure what’s going on there.

Other things:

Tamara shakes hands with Ray in a feminine manner? That kind of struck me as odd. I wouldn’t have expected her to do it any other way.

You have “credits end” but nowhere do they begin that I saw unless I missed it. And it’s really not necessary anyway. Sometimes distributors, production companies, or even actors make contract agreements with regards to credit that negate the script’s version.

Sex trivia video game? I’ve never heard of such. Hmm. Where have you been hanging out? I didn’t know Robin and Tamara were the two playing the game until after Tamara met Ray.

The desk Sargent. I believe it’s spelled, Sergeant.

This is just my opinion but I think the “continued” from page to page is unnecessary. Here’s why. If you send a producer a copy of your script via email or disc or whatever, it may at some point get reformatted. It could be that they decide to put it into another format. For example, you send them an rtf file and they decide to make it PDF. They may change the margins. They may even have someone retype it. In any case, the continued’s could get moved to where they’re just in the way. Just a thought.

Anyway, on to the good stuff:

So far (and this is based on only about a third of it), it seems like a really interesting idea and I like the story. I look forward to reading more. I have no idea what’s going to happen. So far it’s been unpredictable which is great.

Other than the beats (every other line it seems), the dialogue is pretty good and original. The girls, Tamara and Robin, were perhaps a little too similar and I couldn’t always tell the difference between them but their dialogue was good.

Description is good, maybe a little over described in some places but I completely understand that. It’s one of my problems as well.

Anyway, some notes based off a third of it. I’ve been stormed with work lately, mostly due to the Holiday season, but I’ll try to finish it late tonight.

Maybe I’m a slow reader but I honestly don’t see how people like Bert, for example, can read such a huge volume of material so quickly.



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Breanne Mattson  -  December 17th, 2005, 7:39pm
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spencerforhire
Posted: December 17th, 2005, 8:43pm Report to Moderator
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Breanne

Thank you for your input. You bring up some things that bugged me as well while writing. YES, YES, YES I use the beat way too much. I will stop. Also, I realize that I mispelled Sergeant. At least you are still interested in reading further.

I look forward to your comments they all help me become a better writer. "She takes his hand in a feminine way." I was attempting to describe a girl who turns herself into a role of playing a pristine english lady. I imagined her holding out her hand up high an top up like the high society. I will try to descrbe it better.

POV. Usually I have a POV of one character watching the other. For example looking in the mirror inside the cars. I guess they could actually be taken out of the scrigt.

Thank you again for your comments they are all well taken.

Spencer McDonald
stmcdonald@yahoo.com


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Breanne Mattson
Posted: December 18th, 2005, 5:08pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Spencer,

I really enjoyed it. I think it would make a fun movie. You’ve got a great character with Ray. It reads fast and flows smoothly. It’s around 90 pages and I learned to sort of just skip over all the beats and POV’s.

*Spoilers*

Sometimes Wren was hard to root for. I would have liked for him to have a little more motive than just that his boss made him mad. He never really talked much about it. I thought after some of the crazy events happening in his life, he might open up and reveal more of his character. Without that, he seems kind of indifferent and is a little hard to root for. But having a psycho like Ray as his foil does make it easier.

I’m confused about something I think may be an error. The first scene takes place at a bar called Sidewinders. Later Wren goes to a bar called Road Kill looking for Ray. A police officer pulls in and radios dispatch that he’s at Sidewinders. Is this the same bar from the opening scene or just a typo?

I don’t really think a bartender would grab a gun that some crazy acting guy put on the counter and then just place it under the counter and say he would hang on to it for him. That just didn’t ring as realistic. I could be wrong. I haven’t hung out at a lot of desert taverns. I’m not sure why that happened anyway. I couldn’t see how Wren’s placing the gun on the counter was necessary to the scene.

On page 63, Wayne says he’s a bank robber. Is he supposed to be calling Wren a bank robber?

*Serious Spoiler*

The deal with Wren: I could certainly be wrong about this. I haven’t had any personal experience with the criminal justice system but I wouldn’t think that you could steal 2 million dollars and get out of doing time even if you do help catch a serial killer and give the money back. I would think you’d have to do at least a little time no matter what.

I’m also a little confused about some of Ray’s actions. Why did he tell Wren he was going to kidnap his mother? He had been told that Wren was out of jail. Wren told him he had friends in high places. Then Ray actually put into motion the plan to kidnap Wren’s mother without even thinking there might be a setup. Ray seemed smarter than that. I thought Ray was playing them but he just walked into the trap.

I also thought some of the police actions were crazy. I wouldn’t think the police would send a 62 year old civilian woman into a place where they knew a serial killer was going to kidnap her and not even have someone watching her the whole time. Then they gave a bank robber a gun. Seemed odd. But then, this is really the sort of story where you just have to suspend disbelief and enjoy the ride.

And it was a good ride. You have a lot going for you as a writer. This is the first feature length I’ve read from you and, if this is your first, it’s actually quite impressive.

I look forward to reading more of your work as you tighten up.

Good job.

Breanne


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spencerforhire
Posted: December 18th, 2005, 7:09pm Report to Moderator
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Breanne

Thank you for reading all the way through. Yes, this was my second script ever and my first full length. It took me a while to write. I am interested in knowing more about using the "beat" in the right tone and place. Maybe you could help. Also, I agree that I need to tighten my writing up a bit. I will work on that. As for the Sidewinder - Road Kill thing, well it was just a typo. The cops giving Wren a gun is absolutely rediculous but I needed a way for him to get a gun so I gave it to him via Wayne. Stupid! Anyway, its a movie script and anything goes. After the first of the year I want to take a writing course, know any good ones?

Thanks,

Spencer McDonald
stmcdonald@yahoo.com


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Breanne Mattson
Posted: December 19th, 2005, 2:07am Report to Moderator
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Spencer,

I don’t think I’m the one you want to get advice from on stuff like that. I went to college to be an English teacher -- haha, which is hilarious because another poster just accused me of not being able to read and understand English.

I switched gears because I couldn’t live on a teacher’s salary. I started writing screenplays originally because I thought it would be easier than writing novels. See how smart I am? Actually it is easier for me personally.

Anyway, about beats. Everything I’ve learned is from reading or classes like seminars. I never took a single class on screenwriting in college. They didn’t even have such a thing where I lived then.

Here’s what I’ve learned though and someone else can correct me:

Every story has dramatic beats. Beats are the little changes in direction that drive a story. They can be action or they can be emotional. They can be pauses or they can be instantaneous. But they are meant to move a story along.

Examples.

Jim is driving down the road. Suddenly a truck shoots out of an alley and smashes into the side of his car. That’s a beat. It moved the story another direction. That’s an extreme example, I guess.

They can be very subtle. Willie stops at an intersection. A sign says: I-5 North with two arrows pointing two different directions. Willie pauses, confused, uncertain which direction to go. That’s a beat.

It can be as subtle as a character speaking in one tone and then suddenly lashing out. The emperor from Star Wars had a lot of great beats. Like the scene where Mace Windu kicks him down and Palpatine’s all like, “ No! Please don’t let him kill me!” Then, after Annakin chops off Mace’s arm, Palpatine suddenly shoots out lightning bolts and yells, “Power! Unlimited power!” That’s a beat.

Most often, it’s only ever actually notated as a pause. Most of the time, writers use them without even thinking about it. It’s just natural really. As long as your story has a beginning, middle, and end, and progresses well, there’s really not much need to worry about it. Generally, it’s something that should be notated sparingly, though.

Now I could be completely wrong. That’s as I understand it based on what I’ve read but believe me, this is something I’ve looked everywhere for. I’ve noticed a lot of material I’ve read to be strangely lacking in information on this very subject. So much so that I’ve begun to wonder how many professionals in the business perhaps don’t understand it too well. It makes sense to me the way I understand it and I can tell you that I’ve had feedback from Hollywood readers on my work before and they’ve never been very harsh on my format. In fact, they’ve actually been really nice, encouraging, and helpful. They’ve never told me that anything about my format could hurt me as far as getting produced. And they’ve never told me that I use beats wrong, either.

Anyway, that’s Breanne’s class on beats -- haha.

As far as seminars, there are too many. I’m always getting stuff about seminars in mail and email. That Robert McKee guy is probably the one I hear about the most. I’m sort of a renegade writer though. I’ve always been a bit of an odd one. As far as format, there are people who could guide you better than I. Mostly just keep reading and learning everything you can. That’s the best way I know to do it.


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Martin
Posted: December 19th, 2005, 10:27am Report to Moderator
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Breanne describes it pretty well. There is a discussion of 'beats' on this webpage about halfway down the page http://breakingin.net/script-market-news22.htm

Alternatively, there is a brief explanation of beats in dialogue on this page http://www.teako170.com/faq.html
(click on 'beats')
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Breanne Mattson
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Hey Martin, thanks for the information. It was very helpful.


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IceRose
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I agree with Breanne, she summed up everything I could think of.  Good luck!
Sara


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spencerforhire
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Thanks for the links on "beats." That will help me to develop my scripts better. Also, with regard to seminars or books on screenwriting. I have read Robert McKey's book Story and it is packed with great information to help any aspiring screenwriter. I recommend it to everyone.

Spencer


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Shelton
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Spencer,

I had been meaning to read this for some time, and I was finally able to do so today.  Some thoughts.

I really liked your two main characters, however I do think that Wren needed just a little bit more of something to make him even more of an opposite to Ray.  Not exactly sure what it is, maybe a personality trait or something, like as they are leaving the mini-mart he throws twenty bucks on the counter to cover the gas because it helps to lessen his guilt.

I noticed someone already commented on the daydream sequences, but I would suggest identifying it in the slugline, rather than a flash cut.

Common should be C'mon.

When Ray shoots Becky(?) in the car, I couldn't believe that there wasn't any kind of a description for the mess that was no doubtr made.  A 357 at that close of a range would do more than hurt Wren's ears.

I too liked circling of the bible passages, but when the quotation of the passages came into play I started thinking of Jules in "Pulp Fiction".

Jose delivering the Miranda rights.  I think this would work better if he just spoke slowly in a really broken up accent, rather than being corrected after starting in Spanish.

Too many references to Ray as a "whack job".  Change it up and throw in a couple of "nutcases" and "psychos" for flavor.

The scene in the bank conference room toward the end.  Wren goes from smoking a big cigar, to a cigarette.  I'm guessing you decided to change it in one of your drafts and missed it.

Overall, this was a fast read for me, and Ray and Wren for the most part really played well off of each other.  I liked how you brought the mother into it, and the scene at the racetrack as well as the payoff at the end was well conceived.

Rating - 3.25/5

Nice job on this, Spencer, and I look forward to reading more of your scripts.  

Mike



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"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin
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spencerforhire
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Mike

You bring up good points. Thank you. As I said in an earlier post this was my first full length attempt. As a matter of fact this was my second script period. I entered Dogglebe's contest last summer with a short and really like the experience and felt I could do this stuff.

Since summer I have been reading alot about screenwriting, watching and disecting films, and reading lots of scripts. All of that has helped. For my next project I will plan better. This script just kind of went from idea to paper. The two characters, and a two sentence thesis were really the only thing I planned out ahead of time. I know...Not a good plan, but four months later and lots of writing, editing, deleting, and rewriting produced what you see now.

The scene in the car with the .357 and Becky, I agree should be more gross or powerfully displayed. I will work on that part. The bible verse was only a way to show some remorse or guilt in Ray.  Also the scene with his sister was also suppose to stir some emotion for his plight brought on by his own father. Wasn't sure about that scene but I left it in anyway.

The ending was the hardest part to write. I was stuck for the longest time. I wrote, deleted, and rewrote until it just felt right.

I truly thank you for your review. It will help me to get better and to make this script better.

Make it a great day,

Spencer McDonald
stmcdonald@yahoo.com
425-879-9706


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