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My question to you would be: Was your work conceived by you or revealed to you?
This is an interesting question. I believe in the old adage, "write something only you could write. I think -- I like to think, anyway -- that I acomplished just that with Forepaughs. Is it original? Completely original? No; nothing is.
Did I conceive it? Perhaps, but it felt as though it was revealed to me, by way of life experiences. I could not have written it had I not had the experiences I did. It's personal.
As for cliches, some of them work ... I think MGJ mentioned this once. People are familiar with them, they like that which is familiar. The one I like is, boy meets girl (or vice versa), boy loses girl, boy wins girl back. In such movies I know how it's going to end, still, I enjoy the ride -- if the ride is interesting.
I used to love Emmanuel Lewis when I was a kid. But I don't remember the Sanskrit episode.
Did he have anything to do with the "New World" edition? So much to read, so little time.
King James, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, The Second Resurrection of Harry Potter, Roget's Lost Thesaurus, (probably near the burial grounds of Edmontosaurus) the next installment of "Books for Dummies"...
Are we still talking cliches here?
Worst cliches... Hmmm... tap tap tap tap...
Got to be one here somewhere. Looking underneath cushions... out the window... "Hey, excuse me, you sir, with the large tattoos of snakes and skeletons on your arms... yes you, walking that adorable little pit-bull, can you think of any cliches right off? No? Oh sorry to bother you. Carry on then. Righto. What? Do I have a light? Oh sure, let me just see if I have batteries for my flashlight... Oh, silly me. You mean fire! For your cigarette. Let me just check my handy dandy cadet survival kit I have in my handy dandy keep it handy drawer. There you go sir."
He's big. Really big. About a foot and a half taller than me. He's wearing black leather and chains and as I light his cigarette, the wind blows it out. I try again. The wind blows it out again. Ok, truth be told, I blew it out.
"You know," I say, "That's probably a sign from God. You really should give it up. It's bad for your health and all."
"You mocking me?" He seems a little stressed due to the fact that his smoke's off schedule."
"Why no. It''s just that... giggle-giggle... those black boots, your goatee, and that do-rag... you're kidding right?"
"No."
"And your dog's name is probably Harley and you belong to one of those show and shine groups."
"How'd you guess?"
I finally decide to light his cigarette.
"Just one of those things. That's what happens when you go looking for cliches."
"Thanks for the light."
"Oh you're so welcome, what's your name? Sue? Well! I never would have guessed that."
Ok that never happened. Still, I found a cliche. A real one.
Sandra
Ok that didn't happen, but let's face it. Even when we run into
Since this thread began, 17 remakes have been greenlighted by studios.
Okay, I'm making that up, but I wouldn't be surprised that it's true.
My point is, that we're sitting here talking about what is and isnt cliche, and killing ourselves to come up with material that has some semblance of originality when the business is currently in this state and probably will be for quite some time.
Not that I'm against either side. I have a habit of working in tired genres/themes, but I still try to have some semblance of originality in my work, if only a shred.
On the other side, I have no problem writing an assignment for just about anything that's throw at me when given the opportunity. It is where most screenwriters earn their living after all.
Since this thread began, 17 remakes have been greenlighted by studios.
Okay, I'm making that up, but I wouldn't be surprised that it's true.
My point is, that we're sitting here talking about what is and isnt cliche, and killing ourselves to come up with material that has some semblance of originality when the business is currently in this state and probably will be for quite some time.
Not that I'm against either side. I have a habit of working in tired genres/themes, but I still try to have some semblance of originality in my work, if only a shred.
On the other side, I have no problem writing an assignment for just about anything that's throw at me when given the opportunity. It is where most screenwriters earn their living after all.
Well, I don't think there's anything wrong with paying the bills, just so long as you know that when you use a cliché it affects the quality of your work, regardless of what people are paying you.
This thread is about our integrity as writers, not the pragmatics of clichées in the business. Clichées can become necessary if you are, as you say, assigned to do something, but that doesn't mean it's good writing.
Besides it's possible to write a remake without clichées.
"The Flux capacitor. It's what makes time travel possible."
Since this thread began, 17 remakes have been greenlighted by studios.
Okay, I'm making that up, but I wouldn't be surprised that it's true.
My point is, that we're sitting here talking about what is and isnt cliche, and killing ourselves to come up with material that has some semblance of originality when the business is currently in this state and probably will be for quite some time.
Not that I'm against either side. I have a habit of working in tired genres/themes, but I still try to have some semblance of originality in my work, if only a shred.
On the other side, I have no problem writing an assignment for just about anything that's throw at me when given the opportunity. It is where most screenwriters earn their living after all.
That's great if you're given an assignment -- yes, take the money (hope you don't attach your name to it). But to conclude that those of us partaking in this thread are wasting our time while "Hollywood" busies itself making crap films, is, I think, elitist. Some of us don't want to make crap films.
Got to be one here somewhere. Looking underneath cushions... out the window... "Hey, excuse me, you sir, with the large tattoos of snakes and skeletons on your arms... yes you, walking that adorable little pit-bull, can you think of any cliches right off? No? Oh sorry to bother you. Carry on then. Righto. What? Do I have a light? Oh sure, let me just see if I have batteries for my flashlight... Oh, silly me. You mean fire! For your cigarette. Let me just check my handy dandy cadet survival kit I have in my handy dandy keep it handy drawer. There you go sir."
He's big. Really big. About a foot and a half taller than me. He's wearing black leather and chains and as I light his cigarette, the wind blows it out. I try again. The wind blows it out again. Ok, truth be told, I blew it out.
"You know," I say, "That's probably a sign from God. You really should give it up. It's bad for your health and all."
"You mocking me?" He seems a little stressed due to the fact that his smoke's off schedule."
"Why no. It''s just that... giggle-giggle... those black boots, your goatee, and that do-rag... you're kidding right?"
"No."
"And your dog's name is probably Harley and you belong to one of those show and shine groups."
"How'd you guess?"
I finally decide to light his cigarette.
"Just one of those things. That's what happens when you go looking for cliches."
"Thanks for the light."
"Oh you're so welcome, what's your name? Sue? Well! I never would have guessed that."
Ok that never happened. Still, I found a cliche. A real one.
My point is, that we're sitting here talking about what is and isnt cliche, and killing ourselves to come up with material that has some semblance of originality when the business is currently in this state and probably will be for quite some time.
The above comment, in my opinion, suggests that "the business" is, and will, for some time, continue to make crap films. This is, no doubt, true. Still, I see no reason to simply go along -- to play the game.
I wrote 'elitist' because your comments implied that you were above such questions.
True, but after I said that the business will probably be this way for quite some time, I also said that I try to have some aspect of originality in my work no matter what it is.
I was simply looking at it from both sides. Trust me, every time I see a trailer for a remake I cringe because I think there are way better unproduced scripts out there, and most remakes are bad anyway. I was just offering a different viewpoint.
I could understand the comment about me being above such questions if I hadn't participated in the thread a few days ago (Jails have corrupt wardens and brutal guards)
True, but after I said that the business will probably be this way for quite some time, I also said that I try to have some aspect of originality in my work no matter what it is.
I was simply looking at it from both sides. Trust me, every time I see a trailer for a remake I cringe because I think there are way better unproduced scripts out there, and most remakes are bad anyway. I was just offering a different viewpoint.
I could understand the comment about me being above such questions if I hadn't participated in the thread a few days ago (Jails have corrupt wardens and brutal guards)
Mike,
I think I was venting my frustration with the business (I over-reacted to your comments). You're right, you do have to look at it from both sides. And, really, if you want to make a living writing screenplays, you have to take the good with the bad.
You're right, you do have to look at it from both sides. And, really, if you want to make a living writing screenplays, you have to take the good with the bad.
I read a great article about this not long ago. I think it was written by Bill Martell, but it basically laid out how even though you may be working on assignment for a turd of a story, you should still always try and put your best work into it. His example was John Sayles, who had written the screenplay for Piranha.
Now supposedly the film wasn't that great, but something showed through from the writing that's helped to give John Sayles a rather prosperous career. (Currently working on Jurassic Park IV...Sorry, guy from the other thread)
It's all a matter of playing the hand you're dealt, but having enough artistic pride to not just do it for the cash.
When, in a paranoid/conspiracy thriller someone accuses someone of being insane/paranoid/crazy this person will always act the MOST crazy while explaining that he's not.
So here's a tip: DON'T scream at the top of your lungs "I'm not crazy! They're coming to kill us all! I'm telling the truth! They're gonna probe you too!" while you lunge at the person you're trying to convince.
Check out A Beautiful Mind for a good example of this.
"The Flux capacitor. It's what makes time travel possible."
The mysterious stranger who's actually a friend and not a foe: often we see this in political thrillers; if our protagonist is being stalked by some ominous person, usually in a trenchcoat, inevitably once he/she finally confronts this mystery person, they will turn out to be an ally, usually with some important, top-secret information to give them.
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it." - Albert Einstein
...our protagonist is being stalked by some ominous person, usually in a trenchcoat
HaHaHa. I'm actually thinking of incorporating something like this into a script that I'm working on. It's the same theme, but in a totally different context.
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Clichées we all should avoid.
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