Quoted from Grandma Bear In regards to us humans reproducing, did anyone read the study that said in 100 000 years there will be no males. Why? they just want be needed anymore...

Then the gals will have to start reading instruction manuals to figure out how electrical appliances work. Jeez, I'm bummed I'm gonna miss that - should be a blast  

Quoted from Aaron I think this thread should be locked. It's just gonna cause a huge argument and divide people.

I have not seen that yet.

But I will tell you this -- if one of you says something stupid nobody is gonna jump on here and delete it, either.

It will just linger for a while.  No protecting you from yourself here.

So if you elect to participate in this thread, you are urged to compose your thoughts...thoughtfully.

Quoted from sniper Let me clear my throat...ahem I don't think the comments in the Bruno thread were particular anti-gay (well, maybe one of the posters there get a little weird), they were more directed at the presentation of gay people - not only by Hollywood, but by gay people themselves (at least the ones I got to read before it was cleaned up. Where I come from, I think gays are treated pretty much like everybody else with a few exceptions (no church weddings, no adoptions). I understand both of the exceptions but only agree with one of them. Even though I'm not religious in any way, I don't think the church should be forced to bless something that they perceive to be a sin (whether one agrees with that notion or not). I understand the argument for why gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt children but being a straight couple is no guarantee that you're great parents. I'm not gay so obviously I can't speak about how gays are treated in general but I've never understood the reason for the gay pride parades. Maybe there's someone out there who can explain to me exactly what the point of those parades are. I know a lot of the gays in those parades represent the "extreme" (for a lack of a better word) with the way they dress and act etc. and not the gay comunity as a whole. Is it simply for awareness or is there some other motive for these parades? To me, it comes across as floundering, like "look at how gay we are". What's the point of that? It's just seems weird to me. I know the world is not perfect yet (cos if it were, there wouldn't be any of you fags around ) but we're getting there I think. Eating meat is instinct - not eating meat is a decision. Can the same be said about homosexuality? Some would probably say yes but I don't think so. We can't really change how we feel or what we are. We just...are - for better or for worse. I don't think being gay is wrong (actually I couldn't care less about anyone's sexual orientation), as long as you are a good person then what does it matter? I do have a problem with people who (and this is not specific to the gay comunity) brand anyone who dares to critizise a specific group of people as either homophobes, anti-semitic, racists etc. All that being said, deep down, I don't think being gay is "normal" though. Yeah, call me old fashion, but I believe the penis and the vagina goes hand in hand everytime. And what the fuck is "normal" anyway? It's a good question and personally I think Malcolm McDowell's character in Star Trek Generations said it best: "Normal is what everybody else is and you're not".

I had to quote the whole of the above because it really says exactly the way I feel.

Michael Cornetto has also posted a little bit of the history of gay pride parades in the Bruno thread that I didn't know about.

I can't help but thinking about two words, "Public Display". You know how when you're young and in love and you might hold hands in public and feel like you're walking on a cloud, but then you get older and you might still do that once in awhile, but you just grow up and none of that is necessary. (Except for die hards I guess). If you've ever seen elderly couples together, you really see it. Sometimes they are completely silent, sitting next to one another, but the love is unmistakable.

Anyways, the point is that I think gay people need to respect straight people's opinions as much as their own, and try to be a little more subtle. It's very easy for anyone of us to get on an "I'm so oppressed train." (Indeed, it may be said about many. I'm thinking about how Native Indians were treated here in Canada, not too long ago by many. Not nice stuff.) But...

We need to get along as one world society, respecting others views even opposite our own and like Rob says above, I agree, "As long as you're a good person, what does your sexual orientation have to do with anything?"

I think that a good point has been made about extremists. Media likes to latch onto anything where there's controversy. And some people just feel the need to go out and wave their banners around, whatever banner it may be.

Sandra

I have more of a question that a comment cuz i dun realy care if people r gay or not as long as they aint a douche.

I have noticed a huge, and i mean HUGE trend in bi sexuality the past couple years, mostly in teenagers, so the highschool kids here or the recently graduated one may know this more than the older people, but at the mall, at the movies, where i work i see lots of 15-18 year old guys walking hand in hand, and they all look the same, the same black hair that hangs over there eyes, snake bite piercings, skinny and baggy clothes.  So my question is, could this be a part of evolution or is it because it is more socially exceptable now?  I know its supposed to be like 10% of the population is gay, but this is more like 25%.  I asked this guy i work with about this and he said it was big at his school, in fact his GF is Bi, but that was always around even when i was a kid, I see it a lot  more in guys now.  So is this evolution or just a trend?

The Boy Who Could Fly,

The increasing prevalence of 'bisexuality' owes a debt to the pornography industry, I think. Sure, it's not the only factor, but it's a significant factor.

Does that reflect a manipulation or an opportunity for people to unload their own repressed desire - now there's a question.

We're in the 21st and we have bigger problems to contend with than how someone elects to express themselves sexually.

Andrew

Remember - It's only gay if you look em in the eyes

LED....

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. Anyways, the point is that I think gay people need to respect straight people's opinions as much as their own, and try to be a little more subtle. It's very easy for anyone of us to get on an "I'm so oppressed train." (Indeed, it may be said about many. I'm thinking about how Native Indians were treated here in Canada, not too long ago by many. Not nice stuff.) But...

But in the some of the States, gay people don't have the same legal rights when it comes to marriage and adoption.  Isn't that fairly clear-cut oppression?

Are gay pride parades necessary?  I have no idea.  I've only seen one and all I can say is that it was fun because everyone was having a good time.  I don't understand the problem.  There are public demonstrations on all sorts of themes which some people may disagree with...luckily they're on the street, not in your house.

Public displays...there was a reasonable amount of overt sexuality at the gay pride parade I was at.  To be honest though, if I were to average out the public displays of affection I've observed over a year, I'm guessing that about one percent of them would be homosexual.  If I walk ten blocks to buy groceries it's a fairly sure bet that I'm going to see a straight couple kiss and if I go out on a Friday night, heck, there'll probably be enough displays of straight affection to rival a parade right there.  I don't think a gay pride day or week a year is unreasonable, considering.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I would rather be stranded on a deserted island with a bunch of  lesbians

This...

sounds...

so...

cool.



Phil

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. I can't help but thinking about two words, "Public Display". You know how when you're young and in love and you might hold hands in public and feel like you're walking on a cloud, but then you get older and you might still do that once in awhile, but you just grow up and none of that is necessary. (Except for die hards I guess). If you've ever seen elderly couples together, you really see it. Sometimes they are completely silent, sitting next to one another, but the love is unmistakable.

Excellent point. This, for me, is more of an issue than someone's sexual preference.

I think it's disgusting for any couple to be so openly affectionate with each other in public. There's a time and a place for that, and I personally don't care to see some gross battle of the tongues while I'm waiting in line at a Cold Stone. Whether you're gay or straight, just be respectful to those around you and wait.

Quoted from Sham Excellent point. This, for me, is more of an issue than someone's sexual preference. I think it's disgusting for any couple to be so openly affectionate with each other in public. There's a time and a place for that, and I personally don't care to see some gross battle of the tongues while I'm waiting in line at a Cold Stone. Whether you're gay or straight, just be respectful to those around you and wait.

There's a difference between a peck on the cheek (or dear God, even the lips) and full-on making out.  And I think I can safely say that both (massive displays vs. small displays) draw stares/looks of disgust/comments from people if you're a homosexual.   Which is just flat out wrong.

I agree, massive PDA (from anyone) is annoying, but it should be the same "rules" for everyone.

When it comes to this issue, I'd have to say I have no problem with gay or bisexual people. I'm straight, I'm 17, and there are quite a few gay/bisexual people at my school. The only thing I have against them, like some of you are talking about, is that they're way too open about it.

It's disgusting to see a straight couple making out. It's also disgusting if it's a gay/bisexual couple making out. But when I see that I feel a bit uncomfortable, it just doesn't seem natural in my eyes. They can't help it, but I just feel so weird when I'm standing in line at school and two guys kiss in front of me.

Some people may think that makes me intolerant, or a bigot.

I'm friends with a gay guy, and he's a great guy to chill with. We all have talked about it quite a bit, but never gone into detail about his sexual habits...

Anyways, enough straying from my point... I think when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter what the hell you are. But you don't have to seek attention from it, which is what I think a lot of kids around my age do.

I don't know if my opinion really matters, being 17 at all, but what I wrote above is how I feel about gays/bisexuals.

-A. Litch

Quoted from Ledbetter Believing in GOD and believing in the entire BIBLE I can only say one thing. GOD loves everyone. Gay or straight. We all come up short. Love the sinner, not the sin. LED....

You're saying the whole "God hates fags" isn't the word of God?

That is how the Westboro Baptist Church reads it anyway.

I don't think you could alienate yourself one way or the other. It's like taking a review as anything more than an opinion.

Let people do what makes them happy.

I watched the Canadian ART film Shortbus and made it to the very end when I was like this is gay porn... Why did they call this an art film.

Quoted from Andrew Litchfield When it comes to this issue, I'd have to say I have no problem with gay or bisexual people. I'm straight, I'm 17, and there are quite a few gay/bisexual people at my school. The only thing I have against them, like some of you are talking about, is that they're way too open about it. It's disgusting to see a straight couple making out. It's also disgusting if it's a gay/bisexual couple making out. But when I see that I feel a bit uncomfortable, it just doesn't seem natural in my eyes. They can't help it, but I just feel so weird when I'm standing in line at school and two guys kiss in front of me. Some people may think that makes me intolerant, or a bigot. I'm friends with a gay guy, and he's a great guy to chill with. We all have talked about it quite a bit, but never gone into detail about his sexual habits... Anyways, enough straying from my point... I think when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter what the hell you are. But you don't have to seek attention from it, which is what I think a lot of kids around my age do. I don't know if my opinion really matters, being 17 at all, but what I wrote above is how I feel about gays/bisexuals. -A. Litch

Hi Andrew,

I just want to say that your maturity and common sense shines through in your words. Are you one of those kids, like I was, like my husband was, like our kids are, who hang out a lot with people ten or more years older than yourself? By the intelligent post you've just made, it proves: Age doesn't mean what we think it does.

(I'm adding this because I just realized that some people might get the wrong idea from Andrew's choice of the word "disgusting". I don't think he means it literally. I think what he means is that it's inappropriate for civilized people and that we need to subdue our instincts in public, not because it's disgusting, but for the same reason we do other silly human things, like set neat and fancy tables and line up nicely for tickets to movies.) Wow! What a long parenthetical eh?  

Thank you and don't ever think that what you say doesn't matter. It most certainly does.

Sandra

Wesley,

With your avitor I can only assume you are from a bat cave where eggs are not the only thing Robin is laying.

Quoted from Heretic Bear with me here.  I don't want to start an uncivilized argument and I don't want to criticize anyone for their beliefs, but I was certainly surprised to see such open condemnation of homosexuality on the boards here.  In my little city of Vancouver, I don't hear much of that. I was wondering if any of you who feel that homosexuality is wrong, unnatural, or immoral, would like to explain to me why you feel that way.  Again, I'd rather not see this turn into a fight, but as writers I think that we should seek out and try to form an understanding of those viewpoints which are radically different from our own. For my own part I've never given the morality of homosexuality a second thought.  I was raised to believe that it is completely natural and I do not have any religious beliefs which are relevant to the issue of homosexuality.  I have only one gay friend that I know of but can find no discernible difference between them and their relationships and me and mine. So please, if you feel like it, do tell.

Man, am I ever quoting a whole lot of "whole" quotes today.

Like you, I was born and raised in Vancouver. I too, don't really hold any religious beliefs that condemn people with regards to their sexuality. I can't justify, in my own mind, telling other people how they should live when I, myself, can't do what I truly would do being that it would be a perfect world. I'm not speaking about sexuality, but just in general. I wish I could be a better person.

Your post just made me remember that when I was a girl, seriously, no sexual things going on, we girl friends used to HOLD HANDS!!!!!

Yes, as girls, we used to hold hands and we would do each others' hair and help each other pick out clothes to wear etc... Now, if we were kids again, and doing the same things, people might right away assume that we were swayed towards the same gender, but it wasn't that way-- for us, anyways. We just really loved each other as girl friends, but we had the same kind of nurturing aspects that many women share. We could discuss and exchange notes on our experiences with men/boys. We could laugh about "how men were" and still LOVE THEM FOR THE MEN THEY WERE.

Someone mentioned earlier about getting a kick out of seeing women reading tech manuals on what-have-you. This is the kind of thing that I'm talking about here for the moment. It's true. Not all, but many women just are not inclined to do the same kinds of things that men do. (Ok, maybe I should say, "real men or macho men... you know what I mean", but I don't mean it as a negative comment to men who are more geared to the feminine aspects. I, myself, was very much a tomboy growing up and I LOVED to play with boys-- FLOOR HOCKEY!!!!

It must be that the male/female aspects arrive in a human being and for some, they are maybe just a little lopsided. I really don't know. I don't have anything brilliant to say here. This is a very tough argument or question or whatever you want to call it. I understand that people are going to get upset on either side.

The best we can do is try and make compromises. In society, as far as law goes, I really don't know. Truly, there must be some very good and loving gay couples out there that would make perfect parents to an adopted child. And-- that child might grow up to fight against homosexuality. We can't predict this kind of thing.

My belief system is such that all negativity is ultimately for good. Religions are just a helpful stepping stone on which to rise above. (I apologize to the person who posted John Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics. I don't remember who it was, but you are: Right on!"

Jordon, I think it was you who raised the question abou the possibility of gayness being part of evolution. You are not the only one who has asked that question!!!

Seriously! I've often wondered: "Is this some way for mankind to realize and appreciate the separate genders? By SHOWING a kind of confused gender issue?

Anyways, I've actually wondered that myself; so I completely understand your question even if people might think we're weird for even contemplating such a notion.

There's a guy here in Canada who answers cosmos kinds of questions. His name is Bob McDonald. He's the host of Quirks and Quarks. Maybe it might be fun to write to him on this subject.

Sandra