Quoted from RayW SMALL POWERS by Ray - Fantasy, Short - While a heated argument wages over the legitimacy of a map to eternal feasting, furry friends can't help but use their magical powers to toy with each other. 9 pages - PDF format Okey doke, Michael. I gave the dialog heavy and description/action light thingie a try. Kinda succeeded. Kinda didn't on the "one line only action part". Completely deviated from the news thing. Whatever.   Pirate's Code. HA! Let me know what worked and didn't, including the loggie. ("Yes", I know it doesn't go on the title page. Put it there just for convenience.) Thank you!

I thought it was a cute little script Ray.  I don't for a minute believe you tried to do what I asked but it was a cute little script.

Now logline.  It's a little chunky word-wise (I was able to make it much shorter) but my big question here is why?  Why should I open this script?  It sounds to me like there isn't a story inside, just a bunch of animals toying with each other.  For what purpose? What is your story here?  You don't really have one, do you?

So number 1, get a story.

Page 1.

I open the script and find this in the first action block...

In pleasant company, a litany of forest animals mingle at
tables for breakfast. One booth seats MOUSE, SQUIRREL,
RACCOON, RABBIT, CHIPMUNK and a slightly grayed MOLE.

My first though is "Oh shit!"  I don't want to read this.  There's six characters in an 8 page script.  They're all introduced at once.  Not good.   Do you really want people's first reaction to be "Oh shit!".

The next thing I did was take your first three action blocks and condense them to this.

At the crowded table, MOUSE and SQUIRREL argue over breakfast. Mouse stutters.

That's everything you need to say.  All in one line.  Well, Mouse stutters might make it a bit longer than a line but it still is like 9 lines shorter than what you had.  

You do not need to introduce anyone else.  Mouse and Squirrel talk for most of the page, introduce the other characters when they are about to speak.  Absolutely nothing you told me about those other characters before then was important so just get rid of it.

And a little bit about Mouse stutters.  You shouldn't really put stuttering in dialog. It's just plain annoying to read.  So instead of

I’m telling y-you you’re wrong.
There is s-sucha place as "The
Dump".

It should be

I’m telling you’re wrong.
There is sucha place as "The
Dump".

Mouse stutters, tells us that mouse stutters and if it doesn't tell us that enough then make it a clearer sentence - do not by any means put the stuttering in your dialogue - no matter how much you want to.

Next I took exception to I'm telling you... We know he's telling him. So the first dialogue block should read

You’re wrong.
There is sucha place as "The
Dump".

Then I decided to read the rest.  And you have a cute little kids skit script with cute little characters, some repetitive dialogue, but overall it's pretty hollow and it has no story.  

With any script and, especially with shorts you need to concentrate on the story.  I don't really have a story to suggest to you either so you going to have to figure out what it is on your own.  And for everyone's sake get rid of some of the characters.  

Also, the setting is a real bore.  Around the breakfast table for eight entire pages!  

They should be hunting for this mythical dump with danger around every corner.  When an age old feud between Squirrel and Mouse causes a rift in the group.  Only Mole can save them because he knows secret code and he also knows where Philadelphia is.

Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea and hope you see the problems I had with this.  

Michael

Quoted from n7 Taking screenwriting advice from Ray W is like talking to an actual piece of shit.

I disagree.  While Ray puts too much into his reviews with the colors and charts and other fringe, they're thorough, insightful and interesting to read.  I would rank him very if I had to list everyone from best to worst in their reviews.

You should take his advice and grow up.


Phil

I think Ray says a lot in his critiques.  He points out what he likes and dislikes.  He comments on characters and story.  

This site is filled with people who post generic comments on scripts that I sometimes doubt they've read.  Comments so generic that they could be cut and paste into other script threads (and you sons of bitches know who you are).  Ray isn't like this.  When he comments on a script, you know he read it.  I think he's one of the better reviewers here.

When I first came on the boards, I was criticized for some of my comments; I still am, occasionally.  The only difference between him and myself is that I've been around a lot longer.


Phil

Quoted from n7 AGAIN, SORRY FOR THE MEMBERS OF THIS SITE TO BE SO NEGATIVE...

I like reading a good scrap as much as anyone -- it's a weakness of mine -- but I am sure that if Don were looking over my shoulder, he would want me to delete and point you here:

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=News,m=1080786748

Please take a closer peek at #3 -- and stop dishing the number 2, if you know what I mean.

Howdy, Michael

Thank you for your read and review.


Aww, now. I did try.

Quoted from mcornetto I'm asking you to show me who the characters are, what they feel, what they're hiding, who they're talking to, what they're doing through the dialogue.  I don't want to see it in the action or wrylies. And I want you to do this without specifically saying it in the dialogue.

Through their dialog are you not able to pick out each of their personalities?
The empirically self assured is _______________ .
The devil's advocate nay sayer is _______________ .
The paradoxical loner groupie is ________________ .
The nice guy that hangs out with the bad guys is ______________ .
The feisty yet vulnerable one is ________________ .
The absent minded leader paying more attention than you think is _____________ .
Do they stay mad at each other?
Are there shifting alliances?
Do they hit and get hit then act as if everything is fine a moment later? Forgiving?

[Logline]'s a little chunky word-wise (I was able to make it much shorter) but my big question here is why?  Why should I open this script?
I patterned it after these.
Subject + verb + conflict
Map + debate + legitimacy
I can't say "why" you should read it.
(FWIW, despite your objections you read it anyway, and I appreciate that alone.)
You wanna see WTH furry friends with magical abilities debate like?
At least I kept out the mass-debate joke!

You don't really have [a story], do you?
They debate the legitimacy of a document's information, for good reason.
12 Angry Men debate the evidence against a defendant.
Same thing.
Same setting.
("No", not the screenplay this was patterned off of.)

My first though is "Oh shit!"  I don't want to read this.  There's six characters in an 8 page script.  They're all introduced at once.  Not good.   Do you really want people's first reaction to be "Oh shit!".
That's a rhetorical questions isn't it?  
Were you able to keep up with the six characters in the eight page script without too much OTN dialog?
And it was also patterned off the screenplay of a well known and appreciated film.
Bummer.

Mouse and Squirrel talk for most of the page, introduce the other characters when they are about to speak.  Absolutely nothing you told me about those other characters before then was important so just get rid of it.
So, I'm not going to get complaints of "Whoa! Where the h3ll did all these other characters come from?" with that approach?
Cool.
I deliberately didn't include anything about the other characters because the task was "to show me who the characters are, what they feel, what they're hiding, who they're talking to, what they're doing through the dialogue."

Did I not wait until their dialog to communicate their agenda and personalities?

... do not by any means put the stuttering in your dialogue - no matter how much you want to.
Gotcha.
When Squirrel and Rabbit mock him I wanted the audience to know exactly where and how they were, so reference points were included.

... so you going to have to figure out what it is on your own.
Working on it.

Also, the setting is a real bore.  Around the breakfast table for eight entire pages!
"Hear that, Jeff! An abandoned Hamburger Hamlet is boring! Even for talking, magical animals!"
Ha ha ha! Just kidding.
Um... believe me, the eight pages of blabbing around the table has precedent, albeit, not for a short.
However, once again, the point (I thought) was to establish personalities through dialog rather than wrylies and action.
Setting was immaterial and honestly an inside joke from the OCT OWC.
I could have had them walking down a dirt road or along the beach, it was just simpler... more simple, whatever, to have them in a Hamburger Hamlet booth.

They should be hunting for this mythical dump with danger around every corner.
That'd be a bit much in a dialog concentrated short.
But, yeah. In a semi-feature that's exactly what would happen.

Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea and hope you see the problems I had with this.
I largely do and always appreciate your effort.
Thank you.

I take it:
- the single slug is okay.  
- the story, such that it is, is not buried under prose, as I often get hit on.
- the title is appropriate.
- the logline, while lengthy, matches the story, such that it is.
- the story had no confusing parts to it, as I often get hit on.
- no story continuity issues.
- no character dialog & behavior continuity issues.
- the characters don't all talk alike.
- the humor didn't fall dead as a pancake.
- not too many typhos and glamatacle ithews.  

Gracias.

D@mn, Phil

That was nice of you.
Thank you.
Sincerely.



Seems I missed a few posts while writing back to Michael.
I appreciate the clean-up, Bert.
Thank you.



Nate...
Yeah.
That.

My posts got deleted...oh well.
Anyway, sent a positive pm to Ray and Phil that hopefully cleared up my perspective on this.
Nate

Nate and I are entering a 12 step program...

Nah, but we are making progress behind the scenes.
Everyone, thank you for your public and private concerns.

Far too much deleting of posts going in round here. It is turning into an epidemic. Sometimes even the worst of posts deserve to stay put, if only as a reminder that this world is made up of many different kinds of people and even useless cretins are allowed to hold an opinion.

If this were my message board the horrible little prick would have been banned. He crossed a line.

It takes a lot to get banned on these boards.  I think only two people have received this honor.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe It takes a lot to get banned on these boards.  I think only two people have received this honor. Phil

Not if you're me...  

Then again, I've had a lot of changes in my life over the years.  I think I'm thinking clearly these days and I don't look for a repeat.

Actually, you weren't on my list, Balt.

Make that three... there's probably more.


Phil

Quoted from Baltis. I think I'm thinking clearly these days and I don't look for a repeat.

at least you were entertaining...

Quoted from Phil I think only two people have received this honor.

Oh, man...I can think of a bunch more than that haha.  Dom, anyone?

But yeah -- it takes quite a bit for Don to pull the trigger.  And some are even back around.  And some I am even glad to see.

Takes a lot to ban, but the threshold for a deleted post is much, much lower.

Quoted from Murph Sometimes even the worst of posts deserve to stay put, if only as a reminder that this world is made up of many different kinds of people and even useless cretins are allowed to hold an opinion.

I know what you are saying, Murph, but preserving the ugly stuff really serves no purpose, and trust me -- over time, it would really start to pollute the boards.

Yep, the main job of us poor moderators is Janitor.  Taking out the trash.

And don't even get me started on the crappy benefits package...

Bert, I suggested to Don years ago that you would be the perfect mod....