I'm binging TWD yes season one. So after that I will watch GOT. I did watch the pilot... I'm WAY behind.

Westworld could rate as one of the biggest flops ever. You talk about a hidden gem (the original terminator character-like, ffs!) from decades ago turned into a repetitive bundle of mush. Hours worth of character development has turned out barely anything.

Big names are connected to this, too!

I hope the production pockets are deep and the wind turns these sails in a new direction, and quickly! Especially if they think this will fill GOT's shoes.

I really want to watch more, but... I dunno.

It could just be me - but I do like something that brings a little more clarity with each episode. This is going reverse. I am more confused after 4 episodes than I was after the first. LOve the production value so will keep watching. But come on - things have to start to gel a little bit.

oh - and more Anthony Hopkins please

Quoted Text It could just be me - but I do like something that brings a little more clarity with each episode. This is going reverse. I am more confused after 4 episodes than I was after the first. LOve the production value so will keep watching. But come on - things have to start to gel a little bit.

This feels like the JJ Abrams problem. I watched a little bit of Lost on Netflix, and I realized early on the show was scamming its audience. Not that there weren't quality aspects to it, but the audience gives you its trust that when you set up a mystery you have some kind of satisfactory reveal in mind. Not a smoke monster crashing through the jungle that is never revealed for what it is.

I feel like they're building too may mystery boxes in Westworld.

And while I am blaming Abrams, I also think I understand the problem. I've done similar things myself, or almost anyway. When you feel the stakes in your story are not compelling enough, you lean on mystery. And in Westworld the stakes border on non-existent. Yeah, we want Delores to escape and find freedom...but what does that even mean for a robot? It's hard to even name any other stakes because they are so vague.

So they keep setting up these mysteries...Arnold, the Hopkins character, the maze, what the corporation wants.

I mean a maze? Is that really needed here?

I will remain all in, I think. It's not like this is season 2 of True Detective.

All to often peeps think they need to come up with something that is so unique, so different, so compelling that they end up fucking everything up.

I actually really like the old K.I.S.S. routine - Keep It Simple, Stupid!

Seriously...I think the way to go here should have been, first of all, an update on the classic 1973 film, which, believe it or not, I saw in the theater, at the ripe old age of 10.  The effects alone would make this work and from there, we can move into a problem with the robots and their creators.

The problem we have now is that we don't care about any of the guests or magic that's taking place in Delos' beautiful park.  The Jimmy Simpson character is pretty much the only guest we could really care about, but then again, we do have the mystery of Ed Harris' character, but that, for me, is heading down the wrong path.

Things can sound like a good idea at first, but then the problems emerge. For example, centering this on the POV of the robots is a great idea...but it's very hard to build stakes around robots. So I agree with Jeff...now hell can freeze over.

I do still like the robot POV stuff, but they need to create guests that we care about.

The problem all these shows is they are all versions of Jurrasic Park. How do you make a damn series about that? I mean there's only so much you can do with guests and the park.

And there are generally no stakes for robots because they get repaired and rebooted and used again the next day.

Quoted from Dreamscale I actually really like the old K.I.S.S. routine - Keep It Simple, Stupid!

I was told it was Keep It Simple, Shithead! Or was that person talking directly to me? I dunno

Quoted from leitskev Things can sound like a good idea at first, but then the problems emerge. For example, centering this on the POV of the robots is a great idea...but it's very hard to build stakes around robots. So I agree with Jeff...now hell can freeze over. I do still like the robot POV stuff, but they need to create guests that we care about. The problem all these shows is they are all versions of Jurrasic Park. How do you make a damn series about that? I mean there's only so much you can do with guests and the park. And there are generally no stakes for robots because they get repaired and rebooted and used again the next day.

It's nice to see we can agree on something, Kevin.  

And I do not intend this post to cause an argument, but I do have a serious point about what you said...and have been saying.

You say it's a god idea to center the concept on the robot's POV, but now finally agree it doesn't work.

Ideas that don't or can't work, are not good ideas, IMO.

They went for something that has no way of working, as far as I can see.

But, I did do a little checking and it looks like this is a certified hit and will be back fro Season 2.

Well, sometimes an idea has strong personal appeal for me, but I recognize the problems associated with. That's the case here. I am fascinated by the topic of consciousness, so I like it.

But I also see no reason why both couldn't be done in something as broad as a series. They should be able to show us POV of the robots in a sympathetic way, and at the same time give us humans to care about.

Good to know it will be back!

So the visitors can kill the hosts and not risk being killed themselves. Got it. Like in week 1.  Don't need to see a different version of that same scene every week to know that it's likely going to change at some point.

As for the same scene over and over again finally changing....Go Cubs!!

Quoted from leitskev This feels like the JJ Abrams problem. I watched a little bit of Lost on Netflix, and I realized early on the show was scamming its audience. Not that there weren't quality aspects to it, but the audience gives you its trust that when you set up a mystery you have some kind of satisfactory reveal in mind. Not a smoke monster crashing through the jungle that is never revealed for what it is. I feel like they're building too may mystery boxes in Westworld. And while I am blaming Abrams, I also think I understand the problem. I've done similar things myself, or almost anyway. When you feel the stakes in your story are not compelling enough, you lean on mystery. And in Westworld the stakes border on non-existent. Yeah, we want Delores to escape and find freedom...but what does that even mean for a robot? It's hard to even name any other stakes because they are so vague. So they keep setting up these mysteries...Arnold, the Hopkins character, the maze, what the corporation wants. I mean a maze? Is that really needed here? I will remain all in, I think. It's not like this is season 2 of True Detective.

That pretty much sums up my feelings exactly

Quoted from leitskev This feels like the JJ Abrams problem. I watched a little bit of Lost on Netflix, and I realized early on the show was scamming its audience.

You're sharper than me - I hung in there - even with five minutes left in the series finale I thought there was a chance Lost could pull the trigger that would blow my mind forever. Fringe kinda went down the same way, still had hope and got scammed, although I must say both shows as a whole had some killer episodes.

Lost did end up suffocating under an avalanche of unexplained mysteries but at least it had characters. Just from the pilot you get Jack is this brave, intelligent leader. Sure, there's a lot more to his character, his past, all that good stuff that gets filled in over time. But you know the basics of who Jack is in one episode.

In four episodes of Westworld I don't know a single character. It's like the writers are actively avoiding any information that might illuminate basic personality traits.

I followed Jack, Sawyer, Kate, etc. through about four seasons of Lost "mysteries" that were probably made up on the spot because I cared about the characters.

If Westworld would just give me one fully realized individual... but at this point I've pretty much given up hope.

In all fairness, I only watched 2 episodes of Lost, and this was on rerun long after the series was over. I didn't know anything about the series. But I had this feeling with the smoke monster of being played. I was a bartender many years, I have a good sense about being played. So I asked someone who had watched the whole series if they ever really show the smoke monster or explain it, and she said no. So I stopped watching. I really hate being played. I don't mind a loose end in a series, but I don't like when the show builds its entire existence on mysteries and the show's creators feel no obligation to the audience to explain them. There's a trust that's violated.

What happened to the WestWorld watchers?

I watched the 10/29 show last night and am only down one now.

I still have the same issues, but things may be turning a bit with "Contrapasso", which showed signs of life and intrigue.

The show continues to surprise me with full frontal male and female nudity, orgy scenes, and Thandie Newton being butt ass nekid on screen for long periods of time.

I'm hoping things are picking up now, and will probably watch Episode 6 tonight.