This thread, optimistically titled "Script Club I" -- with the assumption that there may be more -- is the inaugural Script Club discussion, featuring "The Clean Up Crew" by Michael Prevette.

Formal reviews should be posted on the thread for that script.

This is planned as an informal "book club" type of discussion, and also a discussion of scriptwriting, utilizing "CuC" as a template and a source of examples.

We are not discussing typos or "unfilmables" here.  We will be looking at structure and story.  Are there clear act breaks?  Is there a strong protagonist, with goals and a worthy antagonist? Are good character arcs in place?  Did you spot any symbolism, intended or not?

These are the types of question we will be addressing.

So read the script this weekend, or early next week, and the discussion will begin when the first intrepid poster starts the ball rolling.  And we will see how it goes.  Everyone is more than welcome to participate, provided you have actually read the script.

Mike is banished from this thread for the first week or so.  He can pick his moment to enter, but is encouraged to let the discussion wind down before he does so.

And if this works out, we may have a "Script Club II".

The script is here:

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-horror/m-1203170490/

Quoted from The Clean Up Crew "It's a normal Friday night for the industrial cleaners, as they arrive for the midnight shift at Better Life Chemicals. But soon they'll find that Better Life is not what they think as horrific bio-genetic experiments break loose from their cages deep in the complex, and come out looking for escape...and dinner!”

Discuss.

So I read it last night.  A few topics to consider or ignore:

1)  Not that it is a big problem, but I am pretty sure this script does not have a traditional first act.  It seems the first act does not end until page 40-50.  Is that acceptable?

2)  Most people will probably agree that Adam is the most compelling character.  But what were his goals, really.  Does Adam even know what his goals are?

3)  There were clearly a few comic aspects to this script.  Is there anything useful to be gained by looking at this script in the context of the "Ghostbuster" films?  This film does not have a clear protagonist, but rather, it is the team as a whole.  I kind of think Ghostbusters was like that, too.  Bill Murray may have stolen the show -- but in terms of the story itself, none of those guys was a clear leader.

On page 20..stopped, for now, but here are some thoughts..

Capitalizing ACTION, I'm just wondering how this is looked upon or what are the "Rules" on it. I do it, but not THAT much. The author had few on almost each line.

I would’ve liked to see more of the attack on tech # 6 or the others for that matter. I felt the author had missed a great chance to make the beginning of this piece more interesting and catchy, because after that, and for the next 20 pages or so, I felt things had really dragged on and on with too many descriptions and introductions...I clearly understand the reason for not showing much and wanting to peek our interest, but I still think this scene could've been executed better..

The call for retreat came too early. The men seemed pro and I expected them to put up more of a fight….I felt the AMBUSH scene was somewhat lacking…How about some POVs from the SHAPE tracking the men? This is an important scene and I think it should be more exciting and telling...Maybe this will be answered later in the story but I guess I just wanted more action at the start.

2 and half minutes of conversation between Odell and Chan…it really dragged…and Chris didn’t really seem like a frustrated young man with a can-do attitude to me.

Anyways, so far, the descriptions are good and I'm able to visualize the action. I just hope the story goes somewhere soon because at this point it's kind of dragging.

Will finish reading later on.

There were a couple of things about this script that bugged me but they had nothing to do with the story so I’m going to get them out of the way really quick (and I have to mention them because they affected the readability for me).  One was the plethora of caps, there was just too many things in caps. Second was numbered characters, I didn’t mind the TECHs all that much but I thought the GUARDs needed a name in order to promote attachment in the reader. There that wasn’t so bad was it?

The story itself kind of reminded me of a cross between Jurassic Park and Ghostbusters.  I thought the main issue with the script was the sheer number of characters and lack of a central one.  It was difficult to tell whose story this was and that would be ok if I felt the author actually meant this to be an ensemble piece – but I don’t think he did.   If I was going to hazard a guess at whose story this was I would have to say it was Adam’s story.

And if it was Adam’s story then a large opportunity was lost because Adam did not have a clear enough arc.  He could have been much more than he was.  I think, especially, his relationship with Badami should have been explored a bit more.

I thought, in general, the characters needed some work in this piece. There were some good relationships.  The one between Trish and Spook to name one of them, more of this sort of relationship between characters would give the script some of the depth it needs. There was a definite lack of history between the characters which gave me the impression that they existed just for this film.

Some of the slang used in dialogue seemed a bit outdated, especially when we first meet Odell and Chan.

I didn’t feel anything when any of the characters died.  I should have, at least, felt some satisfaction when Malcolm went but I didn’t.  I think the character of Malcolm needs a bit of revision because I didn’t find him believable or villainous enough to consider him a real threat.

The monsters were clever but I think that number and range of them turned the idea of the genetic experiments into a confusing mess.  The goal of the chemical plant was weakened by the mish mash of monsters it produced.  

The cockroaches needed a bit of foreshadowing, just suddenly there are hundreds.  The descriptions of the dogs reminded me of the Terminator and the Wallace and Grommit episode with the sheep and this made them very unscary because I kept chuckling at them. Not to mention that they didn’t really fit in with the rest of the experiments.  I would reconsider the dogs.  

The Manster needed to be more of a threat during the script rather than just at the end.  It should attack them at least once, otherwise the fact that it escapes means nothing (unless this is what attacked Trish and Spook).

Overall, I liked the concept and some of the characters in this script but I think that some of the characters and the story itself needs strengthening in order for it to reach its full potential.  

Got done with the sciprt. It reminded me alot of Resident evil being that these people are chased by monsters. But I could see the Ghostbuster's reference. The review is not exactly in order but it's comprehendable. (hopefully, lol. If anything, ask.)

I think it's Adam's tale. He's the protagonist. But he needed to be in the beginning probably the monster killing off the soliders and tech guys. He needed to be more visible so we can know him especially throughout the tale.

The other monsters needed to be foreshadowed. For the other monsters, I think it will be better to acknowledge them through noises when Dr. Balami first meets Adam.

Adam reminds me of "I Robot". He's a strong character but make him more unique through the dialgoue like a hissing sound or something. Also at the end when Malcom threatens him, I doubt he will submit easily espeically if he doesn't know what the weapon is (ex. stun gun) And isn't a snake's skin tough to restand a  pierce from a needle? Not sure, just asking.  

The dinner scene was intended to connect the audience with the other main characters however, it didnt do well. I enjoyed everything leading up to it. Seeing the relationships emerge between each one. But that's the problem. You show only one pair. What about the other members of the group? It's like that Resvior Dogs (diner scene in the beginning). I'm not saying to move it, just make each character talk to someone else as they work. They can talk to walkie talkies? So when they unite the audience already knows all of them.

I enjoyed Ricky and Kristen's relationship. This was my comic relief. Why not make Ricky more young like 18 to really show how lame he is with Karen. There should have also been some scenes where they should have been caught close with each other (show some sexual tension between the two). I don't think Ricky will stop. This relationship was funny to see. And why not have Ricky live so he can finally get Karen? I will like to see this relationship with a happy ending.

Odell appeared as Samuel L Jackson. But the way he lets Baxter talk to him doesn't seem right. He doesn't take it from Chan and Malcom so why from Baxter even in the situation that he is in.

You should probably reduce the number characters in the beginning since it gets way complicated to follow. Keep it simple. And also give Gaurd 1 and 2 names since they are part of the main characters.

Near the ending, will Malcom come alone as he did knowing what happened? I doubt it.  

All in all, he could lose alot of characters in the beginning. This will give him more room to develop characters. Also, some of the dialgoue can be trimmed. With these amount of characters, be precise in what scene each character  will show them to move the story along.

Gabe

Quoted from bert This thread, optimistically titled "Script Club I" -- with the assumption that there may be more -- is the inaugural Script Club discussion, featuring "The Clean Up Crew" by Michael Prevette. Formal reviews should be posted on the thread for that script. This is planned as an informal "book club" type of discussion, and also a discussion of scriptwriting, utilizing "CuC" as a template and a source of examples. We are not discussing typos or "unfilmables" here.  We will be looking at structure and story.  Are there clear act breaks?  Is there a strong protagonist, with goals and a worthy antagonist? Are good character arcs in place?  Did you spot any symbolism, intended or not? These are the types of question we will be addressing. So read the script this weekend, or early next week, and the discussion will begin when the first intrepid poster starts the ball rolling.  And we will see how it goes.  Everyone is more than welcome to participate, provided you have actually read the script. Mike is banished from this thread for the first week or so.  He can pick his moment to enter, but is encouraged to let the discussion wind down before he does so. And if this works out, we may have a "Script Club II". The script is here: http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-horror/m-1203170490/ Discuss.

I could only get through 21 pages before I put it down. First off, there are too many problems with the first act making it tough to get to the proceeding acts.

I will start off what I liked about what I read. The first sequence of events was exciting and fast.

It did not feel like a real begining because we were immediately plunged into the action without a proper leading up scene. Yet that is not always important for a good action movie, ie, Termintor 1 and 2, Star wars etc. So that didn't bother me at all. I really liked it.

After the action sequence, the script totally slowed down and I stopped caring.

Here is what I didn't like,

1) The characters and concept are cliche's.

Man this is the number one problem with being a new writer. We start off not having the developed sense to know what makes a strong character compelling to the viewer, thus we conjure up a prototype from past movies, cut and past him/her into our screenplays then say walla! That is all around poor execution of writing of any genre period.

I.E. Chan and Ordel were blatant stereotypes of their euthnicity. Now I know there are some truth to stereotypes but there is a fine line to be said. In a way I felt the writer knew he was creating stereotypes and wanted to make fun of it.

If that were true, this piece should have been catogorized as a comedy not a suspence thriller.

Karen's and Ricky's intro read like a bad porno movie. In order for the reader to believe a woman would unstrip her jump suit at the drop of a hat requires some decent back story first.

Again I will stress the writer did not take the time to know his characters, hence he glossed over them according to his own logic. That alone will not get this script optioned, guaranteed.

For what it's worth, professional male screenwriters have a hard time portraying realistic woman characters because undertandibly we base them from our own fantasy's and desires. The same would go for a woman trying to write a realistic male character.

I advise any male writers to study female psychology and behaviour. If a woman wants to be sexy it is in her body language. ie, the chair scene from Basic Instincts. A truly sexy woman does not need to be overtly obvious to make a man think sex, all she has to do his interact with the man in the right way.

2) Exposition galla!

If you want to bore the audience and take us out of the movie, fill your dialogue with exposition instead of drama.

Almost from page one, the writer narrated everything he wanted us to know about the scene and characters by spelling it out in the dialogue - it drives me up the wall when I read exposition in the dialogue.

When the writer should explain a detail or insight to the audience is after we FIRST feel the need to know it. Otherwise, it comes across as meaningless narrative dribble.


3) Very little drama within the first 20 pages - was why I put down the script before reading the rest and one of the main reasons this script won't get made.

Good slow movies are likable because they have interesting characters and because there is a buid up of drama through out the movie.

Conflict is drama but drama isn't always conflict.  

Quoted from bert There were clearly a few comic aspects to this script.  Is there anything useful to be gained by looking at this script in the context of the "Ghostbuster" films?  This film does not have a clear protagonist, but rather, it is the team as a whole.  I kind of think Ghostbusters was like that, too.  Bill Murray may have stolen the show -- but in terms of the story itself, none of those guys was a clear leader.

That sounds spot on. Personally, I think the protagonist is the group itself. Each crew member has a unique personality and is able to stand out on there own but all of them seem so distinct, none of them can really serve as representitive or leading the entire group. They all work well together though, have some interesting chemistry, and are sort of united by their oddball personalities. I think the group works.

I wouldn't say there's really an antagonists. I guess the creatures fit the bill but they're all just trying to get free, aren't they? No real villain to speak of. Malcolm and Hoskins are prime candidates but aren't really utilized.

I also thought there was some Island of Dr. Monroe in this (a seriously underrated film), especially with Adam, an intelligent creature struggling to find a purpose. It's a good concept, really. I thought Adam was a little too civil from the start though. I would've liked to have seen some more of his bestial side.

Quoted from eric11 I could only get through 21 pages before I put it down.

While that is not really in keeping with what we are trying to do here, it does have to be acknowledged as a fair criticism.

I also found the script to be a bit front-loaded, and it seemed to take forever for the promised action to arrive.

How could we shrink things up from the outset?  Skipping the diner scene is a good start.  Could the crew be arriving at the plant -- simultaneous with the action that starts the script?

Perhaps the action is far enough removed from the plant that the crew only gets a sense of something going on elsewhere -- but Spook has his radar up -- and we could get a wee bit of quick exposition that way -- and a sense of tension right from the start.

I also think Malcolm and Baxter could be combined into a single complex and conflicted character.

These changes would give more room to play with the fun stuff later on in the story.

I don't see why the crew couldn't be at the plant from the start.  The scenes with the Adam can be intercut.  By the end of the script it's obvious that most of the folks in these scenes are there during this time period anyway.

I do think this could work very well in foreshadowing the creatures because if one of them has to clean this area then they could be curious about what's in the cages.

Quoted from bert While that is not really in keeping with what we are trying to do here, it does have to be acknowledged as a fair criticism. I also found the script to be a bit front-loaded, and it seemed to take forever for the promised action to arrive. How could we shrink things up from the outset?  Skipping the diner scene is a good start.  Could the crew be arriving at the plant -- simultaneous with the action that starts the script? Perhaps the action is far enough removed from the plant that the crew only gets a sense of something going on elsewhere -- but Spook has his radar up -- and we could get a wee bit of quick exposition that way -- and a sense of tension right from the start. I also think Malcolm and Baxter could be combined into a single complex and conflicted character. These changes would give more room to play with the fun stuff later on in the story.

You are right, I should have read the whole thing for the sake of the discussion. I think it is still important for Mike to understand how many problems he has in the first act.

For me the problem isn't legistics or content. I am not the artist and I feel strongly against telling people how to make their master piece. His ideas are fine, and they work for him. The only thing I can criticize is the execution of his ideas.

His first act lacks consistent scene charges. Every scene should have it's own mini turning point, something that will change a scenes mood, "a scene charge" - going from positive to negative, negative to positive or negative to double negative, there should always be a change of charge from begining to end. A properly written scene advances the story with a turning point. We take notice of the key turning points calling the biggest one the inciting incident, which by convention comes usually by the end of the first act. Some writers forget about the mini turning points that gives their characters continued motivation to work through their journey.

His first act should not have slow scenes. The slowest act is usually the second act.

There are two things that are missing in his story. One is a called the Story's Spine and the second is called the protagonist GAP of expectation.

The "spine" weaves everything together in a coherent story structure. It gives the first incident and the last incident it's purpose in the naration. It doesn't matter what crazy things happen in between but their must always be a clear objective the audience understands to be his story.

IE Monty Pathon's Quest for the Holy Grail. We have a group of knights looking for the grail and along the way they get into many rediculous problems. It seems the story can go anywhere but the writer reminds us they are always looking for the grail. Everything that happens in the story is for that purpose, without a spine we have a bunch of moments that are not tied together in anyway.

The second concept is called the GAP. The protagonist expecations are not meet. He has a moment of disillusionment about everything around him. The audience needs to feel this disillusionment if they are going to feel any emotional connection to the character.

The GAP creates drama, because it is in this window of disillusionment, we see the guts and soul of our protagonist. We witness the way he/she reacts to the situation.  

Thirdly to make his characters compelling he needs to write them from the inside out. Mike needs to become each character and see the world through their eyes. I have no doubt the writer is a compelling person in real life so why should his characters come off as flat one dimensional stereotypes.

Once a writer knows story structure like the back of their hand, it doesn't matter what content he puts in his story?







  

I read this about a week and a half ago, but the site's been down for ahwile.  Let's get to it.

There are obviously so many different directions to go with this discussion, and it seems that each participant has gone his own way pretty much.  I'm going to focus on several aspects that for me are the most important to any script (movie).

I like to keep things simple and broken down to their most basic principles.  I really don't care about such things as charcter arcs, typical 3 act plotting, scene charges, Story's Spine, or protagonist GAP of expectation.  Obviously, many do care about this stuff, but for me, it comes down to story, characters, action, and structure.

So let's look at these aspects of the script.

Story - Nothing unique here, but definitely interesting and for the most part entertaining.  I like the intro scene, but the characters lack of names and personality is a big drawback.

A big problem for me in the story is the fact that this huge multi million dollar facility is out sourcing their cleanup to a group of goof balls.  It doesn't make any sense.  With all the obviously dangerous and illegal stuff going on inside, why in the world is some clean up crew being brought in once a week, or however often it is?  A facility this size would require cleanin up on a constant basis.  The clean up crew should be full time staff employees just like everyone else there appears to be.
By correcting this simple "mistake", a bunch of slow, throw away scenes in the beginning could be done away with.

Once things get going, the story moves along pretty nicely.  I think that the "real story" should involve Adam much more though, and I also feel that the creatures should all be large, dangerous sorts, as opposed to the cockroaches and the like.  More is needed of the "Manster" as well.  This is the true "Big Baddy", and he needs to have more screen time.

The ending is the biggest let down for me.  Much more is needed in Adam's demise, and the last scene with the Manster getting out is too short, poorly plotted, and unbelievable.  And the final scene with the handcuffed chick?  Nope...get rid of it!

So, all in all, story-wise, I'd say that it's fairly well done, but needs some tweaks here and there.

Characters - Mostly a underdeveloped, cliched bunch, but for this sort of movie, I don't think the characters really need to be too much more.  In reality, pretty much anyone and everyone is cliched in some way.  The guards and the like all need names for sure. If they're in the script for any amount of time or action, they need some characteristics as well.  Without them, we don't care for them at all.

In terms of being likeable and believable, it's hit and miss here.  I'd focus on 1 or 2 of the clean up crew and make them your main protagonists. Spook should be 1 for sure, and from the rest, it's up to you.  Adam should be fleshed out much more for sure.  He's interesting and likeable, even in the fact that we should fear him...or maybe downright dislike him, but based on what he does, it's kind of both.  I also think Badami needs alot more screen time and characterization.  Her relationship with Adam should be fleshed out.

I don't think alot of the characters act very believably though.  I guess that's understandble for this type of genre, but I'd tone down the joke cracking when they're in periless situations, and try to make their actual actions more realistic.

Action - Your action scenes are prety well done, but again, many instances seem unrealistic to me.  Also, I think there needs to be more action...as in show more.  We don't really get to see too many of the creatures, and the ones we do, aren't that special (other than Adam).  If you create some more menacing beasts, it would add to the overall story.

In terms of the action, the end just seems to come too fast, both in terms of the final showdown in the facility and especially the Manster scene at the end.  I felt let down by the quick deaths of several main characters and especially Adam going down without really doing much.

Structure - Well, as I've reviewed before with your writing, I dislike the way you write your action scenes very much.  The long run-on sentences and fragments all spliced together makes for a difficult read.  It speeds up the read but makes for "getting" the details almost impossible.  I had to continually go back and re-read passages to see what really happened.

The fact that you only do this in intense action sequences is also tough for me, as I get a disjointed feel from the read.  Obviously this is a personal gripe, but for me, it really detracts from the overall feel of the script.

In terms of transitions from scene to scene and the like, I found many instances of things going on too long, while other times, characters just seemed to disapear.  Some scenes seemed too short, while others seemed to drag.  There was definitely a lack of continuity throughout that I think yuou could pretty easily correct.

Overall - I wanted to like this, because the subject matter for me, is what i enjoy in a movie.  But I had trouble routing for anyone really, I didn't like the mish mash of creatures, I didn't appreciate the over the top attempts at humor, and the ending was a big let down.  So, I'd say that there is potential in this script, but a number of things need work and revision.

Hope this helps and others can comment on my thoughts and views.

****
I like to keep things simple and broken down to their most basic principles.  I really don't care about such things as charcter arcs, typical 3 act plotting, scene charges, Story's Spine, or protagonist GAP of expectation.  Obviously, many do care about this stuff, but for me, it comes down to story, characters, action, and structure.
****

After I read this, it was an open inventation for me to respond. You said you care about "story, action, and structure" but you cut away the vital elements that actually makes a great story. What's left, you basically pointed out the trival matters (like part time or full time employees in the company) that is frankly subjective wither it matters or not.

To be honest, your position is like trying to write a musical piece for the orchestra without learning first how to read the notes, and time signatures of classical music. Learning to write for movies takes alot of skill and mastery. You can't fuge your way along and hope you will accidentally write a great screenplay.

****
Characters - Mostly a underdeveloped, cliched bunch, but for this sort of movie, I don't think the characters really need to be too much more.  In reality, pretty much anyone and everyone is cliched in some way.
*****

Are you kidding me! Have you not seen X man 1 and 2, Termintor 1 and 2, spiderman, Shriek, and Die hard to name a few?

The characters in these movies are not cliche's because the writer made them into interesting characters that we care about. That is why the plot works. Lazy writers tried to copy these movies to bank on their success. This is what a cliche is -

A cliche is taking a common theme and trying to recreate a unique human experience within it.

A fresh story is the opposite-

An original idea takes a unique theme and uses a common human experience to tell a story never seen before.  

If the writer is to have any hope of marketing his idea, he should learn the basic principles of story structure.

Okay, I've read this a while ago, but since there were issues with the boards for a while I didn't write a "review".

Are we supposed to discuss this script or not?

Let's pick an issue to start with and go from there.

Unless someone has a problem with it let's start with the protagonist. This was my biggest problem with this script. Not the fact that it was a group, but for other reasons that may seem weird to you guys. First of all, IMHO, if the "clean up crew" are the protags then they are introduced too late. The way it is now, I thought it would be about Adam and the scientists, which I probably would have liked better... The "clean uo crew" doesn't really work for me. Which also makes the title not fit. Again, this is just MHO. They do clean, but only bathrooms and dining room type areas. It would be more fitting if they managed to clean away the creatures better. The creature Adam is also made sympathetic in the beginning, so it got me confused when he escaped because I was cheering for him.

I have more opinions, but was hoping we could start a discussion starting with this. Unless everyone already abandoned this attempt at screenwriting discussions.

I saw it more as Adam's tale. Nevertheless, the clean up crew do join the protagonist (in trying to get out). That's what I liked about it. There is no definite bad guy. However, having a break from reading it, Malcolm should have been hinted as the bad guy in the beginning when we first meet him in the lab with Adam. But the guard takes that role for the time being. OVerall, characters need to be fixed.

But I do agree that the clean up crew do start out late in the game. I suggested in my reivew that Adam (and the other monsters) should be in the first scene where the soldiers are attacked. This will establish sturdy ground to explain the other scenes. The followup scene could be the clean up crew.

Gabe

Okay Gabe, I guess you and I can discuss this.  

Isn't the protagonist supposed to be introduced pretty much right away in a script?

I agree with you that the way it starts out, we are lead to believe this is Adam's story. We sympathize with him immediately and we think the scientists are the bad guys . That's the major flaw for me with this script. I think it should have been the "experimental creatures" against the people who created them. The Clean Up Crew feels like they were just tagged on.