Quoted from Scar Tissue Films "I do believe this could be a good, solid little DTV release that could actually garner praise both critically and commercially, based on its uniqueness and whackiness.  I see the budget being an issue though, unless it purposely was made to look cheesy, as there are alot of special effects, including creature effects, gore effects, and wierd, other worldy effects - these things ain't cheap!" Yeah, I think you could play the effects for laughs. You could always throw in a line from Kobal along the lines of : "What can I say, Hells got a budget too you know"...

I enjoyed this as I have shared a few times...it is cheesy and corrupt, naughty and nice...(It's almost Christmas) I believe it would be a film that would raise a bit of discussion in the media world based on it's unigueness...and as mentioned above...one of the concerns I had mentioned earlier was that if made...it does have some characters that would be hard to reproduce...in order to keep the "cheese" maybe they should just be costumed people like I always imagine are in a circus.  It has that feel for me in places.

I like the mention of the good versus evil too, but I think the movie of Gee and Nicky is just the avenue that Kobel decided to make himself known in...I believe it was more the little town he arrived in with his circus of players and their chaotic trail.

I think to make it more appealing the end needs to be shored up a little bit...so many little pieces just seemed to evaporate into thin air and Kobel went off on a little tangent about the "imps".  Again, I think Cameron needs to utilize the information he knows about Kobel that Felicity shared with him...cause some trouble in the end, some struggle of the good versus the evil...

As has been said before...I too applaud Cornetto for a unique, whacky piece that I enjoyed and chuckled over and it can only be made better if the "good, constructive" criticism is taken from all the voices and personalities represented here.

I don't think it should be a DTV project...I could definitely see it in the theater, monsters, boobs, and all.  In fact I could picture it as one of those whacky comedies where there's a bunch of major celebrities in it- like George Clooney and Brad Pitt.  In my eyes this is a type of movie where I think a lot of big names would be attracted to it.  I don't think it works as well on paper as it would on screen (only my opinion), but its still good.  Things seem to be happening all over but its still a very good attempt at a different kind of story.  Many things could be cut to make it an even tighter, faster script, mainly some stuff Sandra pointed out...like the descriptions....anyways, yeah.  Wish I could contribute more but as I already told Mike before hand I'm not really that good in the SC.

While I think there is certainly room for improvement I could certainly call this a "produceable script". It could quite easily be made on an ultra-low budget if required, has few locations, a manageable cast size, light on make-up and effects. Has it got an audience? I think so too. It is the kind of movie that could get a following at a few of the more minor festivals, maybe generate a bit of a buzz and do well on DVD and downloads. Why not? I have seen some real turkeys* that have taken a similar approach and managed to not only make back their money but more importantly earned a credit and IMDB page for the people responsible.

What of course I am saying is that this is far from blockbuster potential, but it does have its place. I am with Pia in that this the most fun unpublished script I have read on here and I enjoyed reading it very much. With this script I think that Michael has already achieved much and while getting produced would of course be fantastic I would think that making some of us smile is not a bad outcome.

Nice job Michael.



EDIT: * Of course I am not suggesting this is a Turkey, far from it.

Okay, Michael, the floor is yours. I do hope you got something out of this. Feel free to say your piece and ask questions or whatever. I'm sure we're all still here for you to round out the end of this thing.

It’s been great watching this thread unfold, thanks all for reading and commenting on Demon Beach.   I was pleased to see a number of people that really enjoyed the read.  And for those who had criticisms of the dancers and ending, well I understand why you had issues with them and I sort of half-agree with you. What surprised me the most was that a couple of people had issues with the musical numbers.

As far as the story went, I think George hit it on the nose.  It’s structured pretty much how he outlined and it is a story that follows the logline.  Kobal scene at the end can be considered the only “reality” and the rest is his movie.  This is why he wins.  I doubt Demons would enjoy a movie where the humans win.

The imp speech is there to run under the credits, but to also to say that Kobal is not really happy with the movies he’s making, he wants to say more with them (get political with them) but his audience is not going to be happy with it.  The imps are subtly foreshadowed during the script at several locations.

Ultimately this movie is meant to be a metaphor for the movie making process, the way it kind of takes over your life as you make it.  Therefore, the ever present beach movie – even the way it changes through different edits.  To me the beach movie is alive, another character and an important one.

But even if you didn’t get any of these things and you got a laugh from it then I consider that a success.  For those that didn’t get a laugh, I’m still not certain why, but I’ll give it some more thought.  I have more to say about Demon beach, about the dancers and the other characters, but it will have to wait until I have some time to type it up.  

Cheers again.

Michael

Quoted from mcornetto As far as the story went, I think George hit it on the nose.  It’s structured pretty much how he outlined and it is a story that follows the logline.

And George does the happy dance... I knew I understood it.

Damn, somehow I missed all these new posts!  No E-Mail came telling me we had new posts...sorry.

Yeah, George, I think you and I both "got it" and understood what it was and what it was trying to say.  It is very ambiguous in my mind about that point, but as long as some got it, then it has to be considered a semi-success.

As per Slabby's post about it being a "star-driven" wide screen release, I'm not so sure.  I can see what he's saying and how that could play out, but I just don't think this script wants to be a major motion picture, star driven vehicle.  It justs screams of DTV to me, and that's not a bad thing at all.  I think it's too whacky and wild, and not funny or scary enough to garner a fan base that it would need to succeed.  The humor itself is such that most probably wouldn't even get it.

I also disagree with the post about it not needing a decent budget.  There are tons of special effets required here, as well as old school make up effects.  Sure, they could be done cheesily, as the movie itself is purposely cheesy, but without any star power, it's still a $5 million budget, more or less, and adding in actors salaries, it could go anywhere.

Would mainstream America (or the world) come out to see this?  I doubt it, the way it sits now.  Could it garner a semi-cult following?  Yes, definitely.  It's R rated, first of all, and that takes away from all your pre 17 ticket sales.  Based on the subject matter, it'd be a hard sell unless it was ingeniously marketed, and I think DTV is the only way to go that makes sense.

Looking forward to hearing more about my favorite characters, Master Choreographer, Prima, and of course, little Rudolf!!!!  I love those guys!!!

I wrote Demon Beach for the Australian Project Greenlight competition.  It was written with the intention of actually having to produce it myself and this has a lot to do with the content.  It was planned to be very low budget with cheesy effects and lots of overacting.  Many of the locations are locations I knew would be available to me and many of the characters are based on the abilities of the people I knew would play them.

I was planning on playing Howard and if I wasn’t going to have the time to play him then I knew someone else that would.  If you have watched the Aileen film – the lead guy in that film was going to play Cameron, and Aileen’s second meal was going to play Harvey (The Maserati thing actually came from him).  

The skills of the three filmmakers – matched our own skills as filmmakers.   This is perhaps why these characters seem to not exist outside the film. I never really felt the need to give them back story because I knew the characters already.

Felicity is based on a medical technician who took my blood for a blood test.  I thought her voice was amazingly unusual.  We got to talking about it and she wanted to be in the film – I thought she would make a great Felicity.

Kobal has perhaps changed the most of any character.  In the original story  Kobal was going to be a very young girl.  Kobal didn’t have that name then and the story was going to be pure horror with cast members dying as they were killed onscreen.  I didn’t take this route because 1. It was too much like Nightmare on Elm Street part whatever 2.) a little girl playing a major role was going to drive the production cost up.

So Kobal became a bit older and was based on this waitress that used to serve me my lunch everyday at the time I was thinking about it. In this version Kobal was going to be a bit like Bugs Bunny and the movie became a comedy.   Only there was “No way, No how” the waitress would be in the movie.   So disillusioned I reinvented Kobal.

Around this time a troupe of dancers became involved.  They would let us use their space if they could be in the movie and most importantly dance in the movie (you can guess where this is going but more on that later).  At this point the movie became a musical and  Kobal became a dancer with each kill from a different type of dance.  Put a bit of danger in that tango.  Only I thought that would get old rather quickly.

So I searched the web for demon ideas and found the entertainment director from hell who is not actually a historic demon but is popular with Role Playing Games.  Kobal.  And his character and looks came from that and my fascination with Rene Magritte’s surrealist paintings.

Now that Kobal was settled and Kobal wasn’t a dancer what would the dance troupe do?  They would have a couple of musical numbers to dance in but what if I took them a step further and made them the cult that invoked the demon.  

It was then the Master Choreographer and Prima were born.  And how could I fit them in the story?  As a greek chorus, a dancing greek chorus.

I hope that was illuminating.  Next up, what I plan to do Demon Beach now that I have all these great comments (As soon as I get a chance to type it up).

That's incredibly enlightening and explains a lot. Given that it's at least two years since you originally wrote it, I'm assuming the competition piece is out. I know that since I plan on shooting some of the pieces I've written, writing one that is free and outside of my shooting abilities will be difficult for a little bit (which is one reason I wanted to do Shiva, because it was more of an assignment with parameters).

Do you still intend on shooting it yourself at some point, or is that coupled into your next answer? I know when I read through, I considered the production aspects, and really, there are some rather expensive aspects to it, though I'm sure it could be done on the cheap -- but definitely not a "no budget" film. The glowing effects as well as the wrecked cars and Anne-beast sort of take it out of that loop.

Thank you Cornetto for the insight...very cool to use the people around you to come up with the personalities of the characters...and that thoroughly explains the dancers, which I thought was slightly goofy, but somehow it worked and now that you have explainded it I can see why it is in there...it is a bit of a circus in that it's players and parts kept growing as it moved along.

Thank you for the details.

Quoted from mcornetto Kobal has perhaps changed the most of any character.  In the original story  Kobal  Kobal didn’t have that name then and the story was going to be pure horror with cast members dying as they were killed onscreen.  I didn’t take this route because 1. It was too much like Nightmare on Elm Street part whatever

I definitely would not have thought of Wes Craven's New Nightmare had you did that...but since you specifically brought it up, I understand where you're coming from.  But hey, New Nightmare wasn't that bad either.

I have no plans to produce this script on my own, but from the comments I can see that people think a few areas need work.  

Some people think Kobal needs to be introduced in the beginning.  Some think the dancers need to be introduced earlier as well.  There seems to be a movement toward having the dancers more involved in the story or totally removed.  Some people don’t like the musical numbers. And most everyone thought the ending needed to be changed.

The parts that I always thought were weak were Kobal’s meeting with Howard, the dancers aren’t that involved in the story, and Howard’s and Kobal’s movies aren’t that different.  

I’m still not too keen on changing much with this particular incarnation of the story, because I’m pretty happy with it.  But if I were going to change anything, it would probably be that the dancers become more involved.  Maybe give Kobal a bit more screen time and change the imp speech at the end since people seemed to have a lot of trouble with it.

However, if I were to give the story a rethink and rewrite, I would make the difference between the Howard's and Kobal's films much greater. I would make Howard’s beach movie really seedy and sexy, almost worthy of current Kobal.  Then I would make Kobal change that movie into a sweetsie musical where everyone is good and kind to one another.  That would really get on Howard’s nerves and would push the point that Kobal is out of touch with his audience and behind the times.  

I’m just not sure if that would get on the real audiences nerves or not.  But it certainly wouldn’t be your normal Demon fare.   What do you all think of the above idea for a rewrite?

Cheers,

Michael

I absolutely agree with giving Kobal more screen time. I think that developing his character and motivations would really be impressive.

People have discussed humor in this. I found some parts funny. Like when Cameron fell into the arms of the big gay guy.

Sandra

Quoted from mcornetto Some people think Kobal needs to be introduced in the beginning.  Some think the dancers need to be introduced earlier as well.  There seems to be a movement toward having the dancers more involved in the story or totally removed.  Some people don’t like the musical numbers. And most everyone thought the ending needed to be changed. The parts that I always thought were weak were Kobal’s meeting with Howard, the dancers aren’t that involved in the story, and Howard’s and Kobal’s movies aren’t that different.   I’m still not too keen on changing much with this particular incarnation of the story, because I’m pretty happy with it.  But if I were going to change anything, it would probably be that the dancers become more involved.  Maybe give Kobal a bit more screen time and change the imp speech at the end since people seemed to have a lot of trouble with it. However, if I were to give the story a rethink and rewrite, I would make the difference between the Howard's and Kobal's films much greater. I would make Howard’s beach movie really seedy and sexy, almost worthy of current Kobal.  Then I would make Kobal change that movie into a sweetsie musical where everyone is good and kind to one another.  That would really get on Howard’s nerves and would push the point that Kobal is out of touch with his audience and behind the times.   I’m just not sure if that would get on the real audiences nerves or not.  But it certainly wouldn’t be your normal Demon fare.   What do you all think of the above idea for a rewrite? Cheers, Michael

I think the end would be better with Kobal and his cast of players and dancers   All the world is a stage afterall and I think the "imp" speech is so far off the beaten track...maybe that time could be better used if Kobal actually thanked all the players...including the ones who were played, like Cameron, Howard, etc.

I don't think I agree with Kobal having a "sweetsy" attitude...he is humerous, devious, wickedly in control and I would hate tosee that go away.

In my mind I can see such a twist and whacky group of players in his group...I likethe dancers (it's a part of Kobal's world) and they could do a lot more than summon him...dance him into reality.  I agree that you should work/weave them in a little more to this story so they don't seem so out of place...like an oh by the way...their goofy antics made me chuckle...I could imagine the dance moves and the silly gestures and I think on screen it would be so "out of the box" like WTF...that people would have to chuckle despite themselves.

My 2 cents anyway.
~m~

"However, if I were to give the story a rethink and rewrite, I would make the difference between the Howard's and Kobal's films much greater. I would make Howard’s beach movie really seedy and sexy, almost worthy of current Kobal.  Then I would make Kobal change that movie into a sweetsie musical where everyone is good and kind to one another.  That would really get on Howard’s nerves and would push the point that Kobal is out of touch with his audience and behind the times.  "


Maybe I missed something in the script, but that seems backwards to me.

The entertainment director of Hell is surely in league with the Devil and would be attempting to glorify his Master in his work no?

Why would he want to alter an already seedy and sleazy work that is already doing Satans job for him?

Like I said before, it makes more sense if he tries to subvert a strongly religious film. That just seems to fit perfectly with the charcaters you've created.

That way you can also corrupt Howard along the way, in a simialr way to Harvey. Ie they get promised material wealth and sell out as the film goes on.

For me that raises the level of conflict in the film, gives it a far deeper theme and also creates more opportunity for comedy, plus makes it more commercial. It's a win-win situation.

Your call obviously though...