Well, don't confuse a main character with a supporting character whose role and characterization is just as important. In the musical Oklahoma, the story of Ado Annie parallel Curly and Laurie (I think that was her name). She is fully characterized and undergoes a change, even though she isn't the "main" character. Her story is intended to be a subplot to the main story, but that doesn't negate her role.

A movie will ideally have one main storyline and the other storylines serve to support that and move it in ways that the main plot can't. The example of the Godfather is perfect in that respect as well. Pulp Fiction is a different film entirely as it has several intersecting storylines, but each storyline has it's own main character, but that's more or less off topic.

It's a basic principle of storytelling and not a rule. If you want to tell two stories, that's your prerogative, but in the limited run time of a feature film, you have to focus on one tale. Lord of the Rings is a film that runs over 10 hours, so it counts as an exception. Demon Beach is a typical feature, so it doesn't have the time for more than one tale.

OK George, so what is that 1 tale that Demon Beach is telling us?  I can't personally answer that question.

Maybe the "problem" is that the 1st half of the script seems to be telling 1 tale, but then the 2nd half tells us a completely different tale, and then finally, the very end tells us that what we just read was actually something completely different.

Know what I mean?

And back to Bonnie and Clyde...do you agree that they are co-main characters, or is 1 truly the main character?  Are they clearly our protags because they're the main characters, or courld they be antags because they're law breaking killers?

Just curious what your thoughts are on this, because Demon Beach is actually a comedy movie that the Director of Entertainment from Hell made for his minions, and is definitely Kobal's story...maybe Kobal is actually the main character here?  Hmmm...

Quoted from George Lord of the Rings is a film that runs over 10 hours, so it counts as an exception. Demon Beach is a typical feature, so it doesn't have the time for more than one tale.

The same could be said about The Godfather really. I really judge the trilogy as one film, so the early wedding scene, in context, doesn't run overly long.

I feel that the protag has to be the one that helps the viewer connect with what's going on. Using the whole Godfather example then that is definately Michael. He's outside the family and slowly becomes interlinked with them. The viewer learns about them at the same rate Michael becomes deeper and deeper involved.

I don't see anyone doing this in Demon Beach. Nobody really has any idea what's going on, and you get the feeling that Cameron doesn't understand fully even by the end of it.

To make it a little clearer I would seperate Cameron from Meddler and Hawker. Have him less involved with them and more of just their gopher. He comes across a little like that but I think the three of them are on too much of a level playing ground. Make Cameron more pathetic and the audience will connect better with him and then his development and eventual bravery would be a better pay off.

Just my opinion of course, I may be talking out of my ass.

I feel the story lies between two main characters...Kobel the puppet master and Cameron...that's why I would have liked it if he could have done something to Kobel in the end...everyone just peters out in the end except him and his motley crew.

We mentioned having Kobel introduced earlier...his presence was on the beach but it wasn't in any significant way...(I think) and I felt that something was up with him from the very beginning...I just didn't know what.

During certain sections of the script it did get a little confusing with dialogue...it was fast paced and a lot of things were going on so I had to really keep up with it...I think it would be much easier to follow on the big screen though.  This is a tale of whacky antics and imagination and as Pia mentioned...quite a ride.

I think there is a brilliant mind in there (in Cornetto's mind) Makes me wonder about the writer....lol  I keep chuckling over this...whenever I think about it...and that is a good thing!
~m~

Regardless of the layers, Demon Beach plays off to me as a single storyline with intersecting subplots. Each plot point takes us to a new part of the story, but it remains a single story. Note that the concept of it being Kobal's movie doesn't begin until the credits sequence.

Is Cameron really our main character? The real decision maker on the protag side in most instances is Felicity. She initiates contact with Cameron; she bails him out of his awkward situation at Kiki's; she knows how to defeat Kobal's plan; she pulls Cameron into the film with and only has him there because she doesn't know the plot of the film; and she is the one that actually defeats Kobal. Cameron provides little more than a distraction. Felicity is actually the most active character and does the most to move the story forward. This is that Felicity isn't relatable where the main protagonist must be relatable to the audience somehow. We have to be able to see ourselves in that person's position, and Cameron is placed in that position.

The Protagonist should do stuff. Howard and Harvey can't be protagonists because they don't do anything. During the climax of the movie, they're climaxing themselves and not helping.

Kobal is clearly the antagonist. He begins to disrupt our other characters' lives with the movie interference. He provides the problems that need solutions, which is what an antagonist does. Granted, the problems are often perceived, but Kobal is the instigator for most of the issues.

The single plot? Of course. The central plot is in Michael's logline. Moviemakers discover that someone is screwing with their film and have to work to set it right. The movie is a McGuffin in this story, and only gets as much screentime as it does because it is a film and we have to be able to understand that story in order to follow the bigger one. But that in itself is not the central plot at all -- only a plot device.

If we try to break the story into some basic plot points, here's what I come up with:

Catalyst: the filming of the warehouse and meeting Felicity; it even occurs at about the right page count.

Big Event (or Act I-Act II transition): The dance begins and Harvey notices the Kobal in the footage. Without the film footage, it would have occurred right around page 23, which is about right.

Pinch: The rest of the guys find out about Kobal in the film and Felicity reveals that she can correct the footage by entering the film with Cameron. It happens in two parts, but again, this falls almost dead center, which is about right again for textbook form.

Crisis (or Act II - Act III transition): Felicity has a plan after everyone starts returning to normal. This is about the only place where there is a low enough point in the story and that feels like any kind of big decision is made. So this is my only reach.

Showdown: Finally, Cameron gets some guts and he attacks Kobal to provide a distraction for Felicity to defeat the Anne Creature, and then sacrifice herself to get the better of Kobal (for the moment).


There it is. One basic plot. A lot goes into that in order to make the story work, but it's all subplot from there. That tells the story of Cameron and his buddies, though Felicity makes some of the bigger decisions. The big event piece doesn't involve Cameron directly, but it is the point where the plot starts rolling. There you go.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I read this about a week ago. The characters that I still remember are Cameron (I liked him), Felicity (would like to know more about her), Kobal (would have liked to know more about him too), Harvey and Howard, but I wished their names had been less similar. It took me a while before I quit getting them mixed up. Those are the characters I remember the most, so what does that mean? Were they more important to the story or just better developed?

Pia, I felt the same way about the similarity of the names: Howard and Harvey. For the sake of the read, I think that needs to be changed because I kept mixing them up.

I also liked Cameron, but felt he was sacrificed for the other "movie" within the movie thing that was happening and that's why I wouldn't let it take over so much. I think I'd work more with the abandoned building aspect and Kobal himself-- but now I'm getting off the character track.

I'm going to read some more comments and think character.

Sandra

Quoted from George Willson Is Cameron really our main character? The real decision maker on the protag side in most instances is Felicity. She initiates contact with Cameron; she bails him out of his awkward situation at Kiki's; she knows how to defeat Kobal's plan; she pulls Cameron into the film with and only has him there because she doesn't know the plot of the film; and she is the one that actually defeats Kobal. Cameron provides little more than a distraction. Felicity is actually the most active character and does the most to move the story forward. This is that Felicity isn't relatable where the main protagonist must be relatable to the audience somehow. We have to be able to see ourselves in that person's position, and Cameron is placed in that position. The Protagonist should do stuff. Howard and Harvey can't be protagonists because they don't do anything. During the climax of the movie, they're climaxing themselves and not helping. ....

George, you've done some excellent work at dissecting this.

Regarding Felicity, I never realized the weight she actually had until I read your post, but you are correct. She "does" do stuff and therefore acts very much like a protagonist, though she isn't developed as one.

If I were to choose a solid protagonist in this, I'd spin it in the direction of Cameron most definitely. In fact, I'd probably play him up even more.

A memorable scene is when he falls into the "big guys" arms at Kiki's gay bar and he's all woozy.

Working with Cameron's character would be fun I think, making him rather vulnerable, and then pitting him against someone like Kobal. But instead of having Felicity initiating, the efforts, I'd like to see Cameron come into his own in an attempt to prove himself "The Man" to Felicity.

If, in the end, Cameron, outwits the witter, I think it would be a very satisfying ending. And like I said earlier: Kobal isn't defeated. He can't be defeated, but he goes back in hiding for a little while and does his planning for the next kick at the can.

I think we're all after a satisfying ending and this script has enough juice to provide one. It's just a matter of (that sounds easy, but it's not) killing darlings.

This is what I believe needs to happen in this script. I think some sacrifices are going to have to be made, but I'm not sure how that would be executed.

I remain with the belief that Kobal should be introduced earlier. He's an anchor and an antagonist. I don't think hiding him is necessary for suspense.

For some reason I can really imagine beginning this very close to the point where they are reviewing footage and "the mustache man" is seen for the first time and nobody filmed it.

Sandra

I was hoping that George was going to respond to my last post yesterday, but I guess not.

I do not think that Kobal needs to be introduced earlier.  It would completely take away the obvious angle that Cornetto was going for.  He didn't want this to read or play out like 99% of scripts do.  This was all completely intentional, but I guess then we come back to the question of "does it work the way it is?".

I'm not completely sure, but I definitely would not suggest that it be changed to follow in the foot steps of all the other crappy, campy B movies out there.

I agree Jeff!

I didn't read it today because I was overwhelmed with The Black List scripts haha, but I do remember from my first reading that I did not think he needed to be introduced earlier. However, I do think the beginning needs some trimming down with a few pages to get going a little faster.

Cheers! or skål as us viking types say!  

Quoted from Dreamscale I was hoping that George was going to respond to my last post yesterday, but I guess not. I do not think that Kobal needs to be introduced earlier.  It would completely take away the obvious angle that Cornetto was going for.  He didn't want this to read or play out like 99% of scripts do.  This was all completely intentional, but I guess then we come back to the question of "does it work the way it is?". I'm not completely sure, but I definitely would not suggest that it be changed to follow in the foot steps of all the other crappy, campy B movies out there.

I don't know that Michael intended it. Maybe he did; maybe he didn't. We'll find that out later. But let's flex this a little.

If Kobal was introduced earlier, how do you think it will take away from anything. Can you be specific?

I'm imagining a scenario where the characters DON'T know about him right away up front, (except as the Mustached Man invading the footage). But we, the audience get to meet him and know a little bit of what he's all about, and perhaps, we learn a little bit more as we go along.

Besides, this, we could be entertained by an off shoot with the mysterious Felicity and watch Cameron in action trying to use that wonderfully mysterious pick up line. I really liked that part.

Truthfully, I didn't like how the "other movie" took over. For me, it mixed things up too much, but, I should mention, as has been before, a lot of times these things would work a lot better on screen than on the page. That's one of the great challenges of writing for screen I think. Trying to make it top notch for both mediums.

As it stands, Kobal shows up out of the blue at the end. I think it would be more interesting to move the musical elements up to the early/mid portions to establish that kind of theme right off and straight away. That kind of whimsical slant is best set early so that the audience is familiar with it.

I'm thinking of it establishing this kind of contract with the audience:

"Ok, we're here to play-- to have a good time; so don't take anything too seriously."

And also:

"But even still, there are some serious themes being played out, if you care to consider them; if not, forget them and enjoy the fun stuff."

That's my take. That if that's established firmly, then it will run easier.

Sandra

If Kobal is introduced earlier I think it takes away some of the mystery about him and we will immediately suspect that something's up with him and that he will be really important. The way it is now, I remember I kept wondering what was up with this guy in the bowler and mustache. I wanted to know... and that's a good thing. Made me keep turning the pages.

AS it stands now, it doesn't follow any standard plotlines/structure, cliches, etc.  That's what it has going for it...well, that and the fact that everyhting is so cleverly strung together, even though we don't realize this up front.

Introducing Kobal earlier would completely change the feeling that I think Cornetto was going for.  I also don't know how one would even try and intruduce a demon entertainment for Hell type character.  I just don't think it would fly.

I'm thinking right now is a good time to bring up my thoughts on the title: Demon Beach.

Even though the logline tells what the movie's about, I had a different feeling from the title. The title has this lovely dark tone. I'd save it as a keeper, but write a different script for it.

This script, although Kobal is supposed to be a trickster, (and I know there are supposed to be some horror elements) weighs to me more heavily on the side of intrigue rather than  extremely dark.

Why is Cameron so drawn to the building? What is it about Felicity that turns him on especially? What motivates Kobal? Or actually I should say: Why is he motivated so? Because I, at least understand what motivates him, but I want to know a little bit more of the details why? I think I even know the why, but I'd like to see it explained.

Kobal can't explain anything if he's not "in" the movie. Right now, as it stands, he's not really-- not until the very end and it's not enough.

Even though Kobal is an antagonist, I still see him as having good qualities. Does that make sense? Or is it just me?

So, I would say change the name somehow and lose the word Demon.

Sandra

I posed the question yesterday that maybe Kobal could actually be the protag.

This is his story...his movie.  He's funny, goofy, whacky.  He may be a Demon, but as Demons go, he appears to be a pretty funny, good guy, and as far as I can tell, everything that he did (which wasn't all that nice) was merely in his movie.

A final line after the credits roll could be "No human beings were actually hurt during the filming of this movie.

Ya know????

Quoted from Dreamscale I posed the question yesterday that maybe Kobal could actually be the protag. This is his story...his movie.  He's funny, goofy, whacky.  He may be a Demon, but as Demons go, he appears to be a pretty funny, good guy, and as far as I can tell, everything that he did (which wasn't all that nice) was merely in his movie. A final line after the credits roll could be "No human beings were actually hurt during the filming of this movie. Ya know????

Oooooooh I love that idea!!!!!