Okay...so I'm jumping in here.  I finished the script this morning after trying to stay awake last night reading with one eye open and one eye closed...lol 2:30 I had to put it to bed...I soooo wanted to see where it would end...so I got up and read the final 27 pages this morning.

Unlike Slabby, I laughed out loud a LOT! It was bazarre, sweet, seductive, evil, goofy, and campy.

I felt like I was in a maze, but I got that it was a story, in a story, inside the overall story and I thought that was clever...VERY CLEVER. Since there is nothing new under the sun, it is hard to find something that is different and original - out of the box. Deamon Beach qualifies!

I think if I smoked something I could have even enjoyed it a lot more. *wink

I would have like to see Kobel brought into play a little sooner...I did not understand who the dancers in the old building were really aligned with...but I did get that Felicity was a soldier, police - if you will, to locate demons and keep them from reeking their demon troubles on the rest of the world.

The problem was - she just seemed to exit this story, leaving Cameron to click his red tennis shoes together to get home.  He still turned into a zombie and all her efforts to restrain Kobel dissapaited into thin air just like her.  He won in the end.
I personally loved Kobel's character, sinister, whacky...loved when he would wave or start talking on the editing screen.   I think this story has some under developed elements that could have helped the finish or at least - possibly changed the outcome.

For example: Felicity gave us insight into Kobel's use of music as his way of distracting the players when he felt he was losing control of them...why didn't  Cameron use this information and call Kobel out.

I also loved the use of capturing people inside a picture, Felicity herself was suspended for a while in that place...

Overall...I like very much the premise of this story...reality is after all, not reality in the normal definition of the word. Everyone was played by Kobel.

I'm not sure how some of the character's could be played out on the screen...and if you wanted to go see a movie that woud entertain you, make you laugh, have you dropping your jaw and then scratching your head...this would be the one...and I'm not saying that is a bad thing...

Critics would definitely have a great time with this film once produced.

I enjoyed it...and if I take it simply for what it is...I was definitely along for the ride...especially if I could be driving that maserati (which I looked up because I didn't think they had a back seat lol)!

As Michael would say, hat tipped to the crowd...Cheers!  

Well, we're up to the dialogue and it seems a lot of the discussion has died away. How was the dialogue in this one? I'm about the worst dialogue writer in the world. I can turn a yarn, but the characters are all wooden, so while I can talk plot and characters, I can only recognize very, very bad dialogue.

Did anyone have any dialogue issues with Demon Beach at all (not counting the B movie dialogue)?

If you've got nothing on the dialogue, we can combine this topic with the overall writing and get to the commercial appeal portion tomorrow..

No need to rush. There might still be some people who wants to chip in.

I need to glance at the script again to better talk about character and dialogue. I will try to do that tomorrow. I've busy this week, but I want Michael to get the most out of this so I will try to do better. I do wish some more people would join in though... Maybe the Holidays are keeping people busy.  

I thought the dialogue was pretty good.  For the most part, each character had their own voice and way of communicating.  Everything was prtty campy, but that's the way it was intended to be, so no problem there.

It's too bad that so few people are even commenting.  I really thought this script would be ripe for strong back and forth commentary.

I still think that the structure is where this script may need help, and I wish we could have gotten more input.

Well, don't let the conversation about structure stop just because the topic has moved on. If there are things to discuss on the structure, let's do it. If you've recently finished reading it, feel free to comment on anything we've discussed. All input is valid. The only thing we haven't gotten to really is writing and commercial appeal, which we'll discuss once we get through the other topics. If the conversation goes past the week, we can keep discussing. There's not a time limit here.

I'm sure Michael would be thrilled.

I didn't see anything wrong with the dialogue, even the B movie stuff, which I think should be addressed even more than what's in the actual film.

Reason being, is that the dialgoue in there is supposed to be B movie like, and has to be written that way.  It's actually a little difficult in a sense, because it has to go above and beyond just sounding believable.  It has to be believably bad, where as you would really get the impression that a writer sat down to write this beach movie, writing what they considered to be good dialogue, only to have it come off as campy/corny/on the nose.

It's very much like writing a character that way.  You don't want a character that's a complete idiot talking like he went to Harvard, and you don't want your B Movie dialogue to sound like David Mamet.

I liked the dialogue with the parents. That cracked me up.

I never thought about the dialogue much when I read it, which for me is a good thing. I often think that good dialogue just goes on unnoticed, If I am reading a script and start to think about the dialogue it is either because it is poorly written or very good. In this case it just seemed to do it's job well. Nothing seemed to out of place or forced.

I for one do not believe that Kobal should have been introduced earlier, I think that the one thing that would keep people watching this was the great suspense that Michael managed to build up in the first act. With the old building and the early guest appearances of Kobal in the early scenes. (I am assuming that we would see Kobal in the background of the early scenes as they are being shot?). This suspense was well written and very visual and would keep the audience trying to work out where we are going. Introducing Kobal earlier would not help that at all.

I did think however the script did take too long to get going and think something really needs to happen around page 25 to get the main plot kicked off. This does not have to be Kobal appearing but we certainly need some kind of inciting incident, a death or attack, fire etc. etc.. Something that kick starts the chain of events that take us to the rest of the story. I was starting to feel a little bored towards the end of act one and the dancing scenes did not do much for me. In fact the Gee/Nicky movie within a movie storyline was the only thing propelling the story forward for me at that stage and did think that story would play more of a prominent part in the last two thirds.

My main problem with this script was that it took too long to find out what it was actually about. Forgive me if I'm repeating stuff, I've only glanced through the thread. Kobal should really be introduced earlier on in the film, I mean he could even be in the first scene - the volleyball one. I just felt it took too long to get going.

The whole dancing thing got a little old after the third or fourth appearance of them. They were really funny to start with but I would cut down their scenes or give them some differing lines. 'Dance my brothers! Dance!' was said a few too many times lol I just felt it started heading towards daft instead of alternative humour by the end.

The musical numbers really didn't work for me. It just seemed far too random. Maybe have the one at the end, that would be alright, but the rest I'd cut out.

I did really enjoy the script though.

I find it important to watch the portion of the beach movie that plays since it factors into both later scenes in cross-cutting, Kobal rewrites them, and they move through those scenes later as well. I pondered what else could be done with them since those scenes are right on where we should be getting some serious movement. If nothing else, those scenes should play earlier since they're the "life is boring" part of the story. But then, he's got two stories going on here and setting up one story is difficult, much less two. Maybe Cameron could tell about Felicity later. I know that story takes up a lot of time and by then, we're not emotionally involved in anything going on. But again, he's got some important plotty stuff going on in the camera, and Felicity trying to swipe the camera is significant.

I dunno. I agree with it needing to move forward quicker, though.

Have we already discussed who was the protagonist by the way? I can't really decide between Hawker and Cameron. I guess Cameron probably changes the most so it's probably him. I don't really think that is defined so well though...altho I guess, given how bizarre this script is, nothing was going to be black n white.

I can't see Hawker being the protagonist. Cameron would be my vote but he never reaches a point to where he must be emotionally committed to the story. He's the cameraman. He can go home and tell Howard to shove his movie up his butt.

So it's sounding like most did not appreciate the dancing scenes like I did.  Funny, cause in real life, I literally despise dancing, and everything about it.  But in here, I found it hilarious, and could picture those scenes playing out so vividly.

In terms of the antags and protags, there are obviously a bunch in both categories.  At different times, different characters take the fore front, but when all's said and done, I think Cameron has to be the main protag, and Kobal is the main antag.

Does it matter that we're asking each other which character is which?  It probably does, and says that based on the very involved, non formulaic script, it's difficult to know these things which are usually so simple.  Not that that's such a bad thing, it's just not the way we're used to seeing things.

Well, it's like this. The Godfather is a huge, multi-layered script that doesn't follow a mainstream format (it's 45 minutes before much of anything happens). It has a ton of characters and most of them are really well defined. Who is the main protagonist? Who is it that changes the most during the course of the story?

That would be Michael Corleone. He goes from good Army boy to the next Godfather. Marlon Brando may be the title character...for most of it, but it is Michael, who at the end of the film is the Godfather and holds that title role. Throughout all of the characters, there's little doubt of this.

The antagonist is another story entirely as a lot happens during the course of the story, though in the end, Michael's struggle was against himself and his family during his slow progression into the role he took at the end. Technically, The Godfather didn't have a happy ending since Michael succumbed to his destiny, but it was inevitable.

This story is more straight forward than that and yet, we're wondering who the main character is? That in itself says there's a problem. Movies only have enough time for one real main character. There are supporting roles throughout and parallel subplots, but the lion's share of the story should be about the main character and we have to know his journey.

I agree to a certain point, George.  I don't feel that there can only be 1 main antag and 1 main protag...I feel there can be 2 or even 3 of each, if they tend to be together for most of the script.  Take "Bonnie and Clyde" for instance, "Pulp Fiction", "Natural Born Killers", or even "True Romance".  Each has several "main characters" in both the antag and protag roles.

Who is the main antag and protag in Pulp Fiction?  Does it really matter?

Most movies do tend to center and focus on 1 antag and 1 protag, and many times, secondary characters have so little to do, that it is painfully obvious who the story is about.  This is not necessarily such a good thing however.  It's just difficult to actually put together a story that has a number of strong personalities, and more than a few characters who actually are involved in the plot.

For me, the "problems" with identifying the main protag and antag have more to do with what the story is really about, than it does with the actual characters.  It would be interesting to see how the actual screen time and amount of dialogue actually plays out between all the different characters here, and I have a feeling that Cameron may not actually have as much to say and do as some others do.