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In regards to what you say, above, I have no idea who you are, so your statement doesn't carry any weight.
Maybe I am Shelton! Or maybe I used to work for one of the two monolith agencies in Los Angeles (not the Death Star -- the other one). Maybe I'm pathological liar. Maybe I'm a drinker. Maybe I'm a pathological drinker...wait that is Shelton.
I thought I had pulled the perfect script. Twenty-something guy with no credits writes the script he wants to write and pulls it off. Go Kyle. But you gloomy guses fall back on the amateur v. pro thing as if someone is going to shoot you if you try to climb the fence.
And what's the rewriting of the script to "make it better". It's written in a certain, styled in a certain way because the technique is part of the story. If you can't see that then go have a gin fizz and a deep think.
I'm just saying you've got a bunch of blank pages and you can do anything you want. Anything. If you want to use camera direction it's not going to stop your script from getting read. What will stop your script from getting read is churning out something mediocre. Tons and tons of scripts are written and their worst sin is that they're average. If you limit yourself in the techniques you can use then you're already one step closer to average.
Maybe I am Shelton! Or maybe I used to work for one of the two monolith agencies in Los Angeles (not the Death Star -- the other one). Maybe I'm pathological liar. Maybe I'm a drinker. Maybe I'm a pathological drinker...wait that is Shelton.
I thought I had pulled the perfect script. Twenty-something guy with no credits writes the script he wants to write and pulls it off. Go Kyle. But you gloomy guses fall back on the amateur v. pro thing as if someone is going to shoot you if you try to climb the fence.
And what's the rewriting of the script to "make it better". It's written in a certain, styled in a certain way because the technique is part of the story. If you can't see that then go have a gin fizz and a deep think.
I'm just saying you've got a bunch of blank pages and you can do anything you want. Anything. If you want to use camera direction it's not going to stop your script from getting read. What will stop your script from getting read is churning out something mediocre. Tons and tons of scripts are written and their worst sin is that they're average. If you limit yourself in the techniques you can use then you're already one step closer to average.
I know who you are.
But I have to disagree. If someone is using camera directions and they clearly don't know what they are doing, they will lose a read. I would definitely stop reading.
So, if you're going to use camera directions you should know what you are doing. You should actually be prepared and able to shoot it, if you had the means.
Lakewood, professionals can afford to make mistakes. Amateurs can't.
Since THE BEAVER is a black list script, I wouldn't say the writer is a pro. Maybe used a pen name, who knows. Most of the black list scripts I read didn't have this kind of camera work in them.
What you can glean from THE BEAVER is that if you write a good story, they'll read it without giving camera shots a second thought. But even getting as far as THE BEAVER did doesn't mean you'll get produced. I liked THE BEAVER.
Hm, I would say this is an interesting topic, but no, it really isn't. The boards must be really, really slow for a conversation like this to get so much attention. I've read the screenwriting books as well. Those books say for a spec to writ it as cleanly as possible and to avoid directing the script. That's fine. That's what the writers say.
Here's my thought. It's your script. Write it however the hell you want to. Seriously, are we arguing about camera directions? Let's talk about something worthwhile like character development. You know, it's the singular most overlooked topic and instead of developing awesome characters, we're fretting over whether or not we should write CLOSE UP on medicine cabinet.
One thing I've said over and over again is that when it comes to script format, it's the easiest thing in the world. That's from writing a good slug all the way down to wrylies and camera directions. You can reformat a script in an hour, and that's feature length. If you have to clean up camera directions (should you be inclined to do so), then allow two.
How long does it take to write a good story with solid hooks, strong characters, a compelling story, and an unforgettable ending? Anyone? Anyone? A hell of a lot longer than an hour, that's how long. You're in here fussing about the easiest part of the process, so I assume you have a completed script and you're just polishing it up then, right?
If not, then write the thing first, and format it later. I'm not picky on format when I read. I don't care. I've some pretty crappily formatted scripts that had a damn good story. Write your story first and do it however makes you happy. Until you've sold it, it's your script, so why are you listening to to how everyone else does it.
Of course, if you're really into directing every detail of your story...write a novel. You'll have the control you desire.
Seriously, are we arguing about camera directions? Let's talk about something worthwhile like character development. You know, it's the singular most overlooked topic and instead of developing awesome characters, we're fretting over whether or not we should write CLOSE UP on medicine cabinet.
Gotta agree with that one. Plenty of amatuer scripts at SS have suffered a quick format nazi execution without an apparent read to see if life actually existed.
Since THE BEAVER is a black list script, I wouldn't say the writer is a pro. Maybe used a pen name, who knows. Most of the black list scripts I read didn't have this kind of camera work in them.
I write to offer this from the Hollywood Reporter "Killen is one of those spec-writer rags-to-riches stories -- a 30ish USC grad whose writing career until now has consisted of writing for small literary magazines."
I would agree that this is the most extreme use of camera and editing work in the entire Black List. But the technique is part of the story. And just out of curiosity I did a random five scripts sample in the Black List with How to Be Good, How To Guide For Saving the World, I Killed Buddy Cloy, I'm with Cancer, Inferno - A Linda Lovelace Story and only I'm with Cancer lacks scripted camera movement.
Scripted camera is the norm. You expect it in a script. You can use it or not. The fact that the bulk of you are so inflexible leads me to believe you won't. Welcome to 1992.
George - you want to talk character? Start a thread and I'll be there.
I write to offer this from the Hollywood Reporter "Killen is one of those spec-writer rags-to-riches stories -- a 30ish USC grad whose writing career until now has consisted of writing for small literary magazines."
I would agree that this is the most extreme use of camera and editing work in the entire Black List. But the technique is part of the story. And just out of curiosity I did a random five scripts sample in the Black List with How to Be Good, How To Guide For Saving the World, I Killed Buddy Cloy, I'm with Cancer, Inferno - A Linda Lovelace Story and only I'm with Cancer lacks scripted camera movement.
Scripted camera is the norm. You expect it in a script. You can use it or not. The fact that the bulk of you are so inflexible leads me to believe you won't. Welcome to 1992.
George - you want to talk character? Start a thread and I'll be there.
I went back and Googled the guy, good for him.
I also checked on my list favorites, ROUNDTABLE, CODE NAME VEIL, FRESHLY POPPED, THE ORANGES, and yes, some camera, but in any of them it didn't feel like they hindered the story at all, but made it better, from a script point of view. And maybe that's the point. If someone reads the story and right out of the gate they're hung up on rules, they'll miss it. Screenwriting road rage.
I think what you bring up is legitimate. If you have a point to make with a shot, take the chance and write it that way. And from the point of view of the readers, too much is too much, especially in a mediocre story.
My rags will turn into riches when they're buried with me.
I agree with Baltis. This thread should be closed. Everyone expressed his point of view and all this gets pointless.
Guys do what you want to do. You want to indicates use of camera. Ok do it. We all here to take or give advices. The question has been debated.
The most important in a script is the STORY. The rest is lacemaking. Some guy sold his script with camera indications. Why not? Good for him. I know French people who sold English script without any concern of grammar problems or syntax. It's all a matter of luck. That's all. If your script is read by a professional and if he tells you critics about it (if they are concrete, once again it's all depends of your point of view) listen to him. A second guy will tell you the same thing. And a third... Don't get stuck in your thing. Try to progress through the others. That's what I do as a non English born writer. And it works.
Michel, I have no idea why you think a thread should be closed, there is always room for more additions to any discussions.
One of the many excellent articles from Mystery Man on film, this guy if you do not read him is a bit of a screenplay nut, he writes for Script magazine under the title of Mystery Man but he is very likely someone who has a key role within the industry somewhere. This is what he had to say on writing camera angles.
Quoted Text
Okay, let’s just clear the air of so much bad thinking about action lines. I don’t know how or why this happened, but a lot of newbies seem to think that a scene is comprised of 1) a Master Scene Heading (such as INT. MYSTERY MAN’S KITCHEN – NIGHT) and 2) they should just add some action lines to describe the room, the characters, write a bunch of dialogue, (and quite a few more action lines to describe even the slightest gestures of characters, which we call incidental actions), and 3) move on to the next scene and repeat this process for 120 pages.
Wrong.
How did they get so far away from the core principles of screenwriting? Were they mislead? I don’t know. Even by the very low standards described above, some newbies can’t even get that right and they fill their action lines with what we call unfilmmables – sentences in action lines that are not visual, such as backstories of characters, author’s intrusions, inner thoughts, questions to the reader, etc.
Now, what do we know about action lines? With Trottier’s Screenwriter's Bible, we know that we ARE meant to describe the setting, characters, or actions of those characters, but these sentences must be very lean and mean. We write only what we see on the screen and only the most essential elements using the most minimal words. We have to provide a framework of visuals that tell the story so the reader (and audience) can put two & two together and visualize what's happening on the screen. Action paragraphs should be 4 lines or fewer. You typically write one paragraph per beat of action, and they should be important actions. I loved what Trottier said about incidental actions: “If your character raises her cup of coffee to her lips, that’s not important enough to describe… unless there’s poison in the cup.”
Hehehe...
Always, always err on the side of brevity.
Now let’s take it to the next level. The only way you can truly excel at writing cinematic stories (on a par with or surpassing the pros) is to elevate your craft to a level where you can (without using camera angles) WRITE THE SHOTS.
Bwaaah! You’re SO wrong, Mystery Man! Yes, I can hear you balking already and screaming at your monitors that, dammit, man, you can’t describe the shots because it’s up to the director to decide how that scene will be filmed and thus, all you can do is just tell the story – what happens to what character and then move on to the next scene.
So, Giles, am I correct in assuming that you are saying you agree that camera directions, asides, and the like should not be written in spec scripts? If that's where you're going, I'm with you 100%.
Was that quote all from "Mystery Man" or was some of it your commentary on his comments? I was a bit confused.
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