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Hey, what do you think are the important elements of a scene? I'm fleshing out an outline I finished lastnight and I thought I'd ask. I want to ensure that I'm thorough.
So far I'll say the scenes will have started out on one emotion(or beat) and end up on another. They have to change.
Kinda like:
fear to trust to disbelief to relief anticipation to dread joy to panic anger to amusement trust to anger
Make sure the scene does something to advance the plot and/or build on your characters. If you can skip over it and not lose anything either way, it's not needed.
Hey, what do you think are the important elements of a scene?
While we have already established that you do not always subscribe to the general 3-act structure, I would nevertheless submit that it is often helpful to consider individual scenes working in much the same way.
Applying that simple "beginning-middle-end" pattern to each scene can sometimes help you flesh things out the way they ought to be.
Consider each scene to be its own self-contained story.
Your scene should begin with an interesting set-up, then escalate, then conclude -- and consider cutting anything that does not contribute to one of these three components.
In particular -- when these "non-contributors" occur at the very beginning of the scene, or very late in the scene -- that is a clue that they can be deleted.
I've also read to start a scene as late as possible and end as soon as possible. Most scenes don't need much of a setup, so they should start while the action is already in progress. If you feel like the audience needs to know something you have at the beginning of a scene, put it in the middle.
A good scene should do one of three things: advance the plot; build a character; or get a laugh. Preferably all three or at least two out of three.
When I write a scene it has to have meaning. It has to go somewhere. IT has to do one of the following above. It's got to establish something or expand on something or ultimately end something.
Each scene has a beginning, middle and end. You have to know how to end a scene just as well as ending your entire movie.
I have to keep remembering to start in medias res. The french film "I've loved you so long" did just that with all its scenes. Even though this was a character drama, it showed very well. I want my scenes to have resonance so I was hoping for more pointers other than beginning middle and end...
Jammin', Jammin', Jammin'...here we go again. You continue to come up with these posts and ask the same questions again and again.
Here's what keeps happening. Various people respond with ideas...mostly ideas from screenwriting books and experts. Others just give their 2 cents. Then, the back and forth gets going, and all is lost, for the most part.
Bottom line is this. No one can tell you how to write solid scenes or scripts for that matter. No book can show you exactly what to write. No one can tell you how to write. You just have to do it.
You have to come up with a story. or maybe just an idea, then turn it into a story. Create interesting characters...make us care for them and route for them. Work the story out in your head, with a template, with an outline, whatever you choose to use, and break the story into scenes.
A scene doesn't have to do anything other than make sense, be engaging, and help your story along to its resolution. Don't get all bogged down worrying about all this garbage.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone on what they've suggested, but don't worry about it up front. Write, step back and read it over...and over. See what you like about it, and what you don't. Add, cut, reword. Make sure everything's flowing the way you want it to. Keep a cadence to your writing that is unique to each script's overall feel and theme.
It's like skiing, for instance. You can have all the instruction in the world from the world's top skiiers, but until you physically get on top of that first run, it all means crap. You learn to ski by skiing. Once you feel comfortable on your skis, you start to refine your style. You can't know if you're going to be a cruiser or a carver, a powder hound or a mogul freak.
Just write and write the way you feel. If others give negative feedback, take it in, see how you feel about it, and try it again.
This is honestly the very best advice anyone can throw out.
I have to keep remembering to start in medias res. The french film "I've loved you so long" did just that with all its scenes. Even though this was a character drama, it showed very well. I want my scenes to have resonance so I was hoping for more pointers other than beginning middle and end...
Well, each movie is different... I mean, if you're writing a comedy you clearly can't structure your scenes like you would a mystery movie. If you want pointers on finding resonance within your own movies you're probably going to have to be a little more descriptive in what you're needing help on. What scene. How's it set up.
I can tell you I write my movies like
Introduction of plot Veer off to/build up sub plot point Build up on initial plot Introduction of new plot and or character resolution to sub plot point
and so forth and so on, but what's that going to do for you when you're not writing the same movie as us? Different movies need to be tackled in different ways.
If you're wanting to know to start your scene off with a question or an answerer you're going to have to be more clear.
Yeah...I am kind feeling like you pooped on my post when I was trying to be helpful. So, you're welcome...I guess. Not really sure why I was sawing on that tired old hambone you threw out there anyway.
Maybe you need to phrase your questions better. I find your second post more confusing than your first.
Yeah, I realized it might see that way afterwards. Sorry about that.
Jammin', Jammin', Jammin'...here we go again. You continue to come up with these posts and ask the same questions again and again.
Here's what keeps happening. Various people respond with ideas...mostly ideas from screenwriting books and experts. Others just give their 2 cents. Then, the back and forth gets going, and all is lost, for the most part.
Bottom line is this. No one can tell you how to write solid scenes or scripts for that matter. No book can show you exactly what to write. No one can tell you how to write. You just have to do it.
You have to come up with a story. or maybe just an idea, then turn it into a story. Create interesting characters...make us care for them and route for them. Work the story out in your head, with a template, with an outline, whatever you choose to use, and break the story into scenes.
A scene doesn't have to do anything other than make sense, be engaging, and help your story along to its resolution. Don't get all bogged down worrying about all this garbage.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone on what they've suggested, but don't worry about it up front. Write, step back and read it over...and over. See what you like about it, and what you don't. Add, cut, reword. Make sure everything's flowing the way you want it to. Keep a cadence to your writing that is unique to each script's overall feel and theme.
It's like skiing, for instance. You can have all the instruction in the world from the world's top skiiers, but until you physically get on top of that first run, it all means crap. You learn to ski by skiing. Once you feel comfortable on your skis, you start to refine your style. You can't know if you're going to be a cruiser or a carver, a powder hound or a mogul freak.
Just write and write the way you feel. If others give negative feedback, take it in, see how you feel about it, and try it again.
This is honestly the very best advice anyone can throw out.
Dreamscale, if you don't like the post, ignore it. I just wanted/hoped to spot some gems(strategically speaking) that I hadn't thought of.
I don't dislike this post at all. I'm actually trying to help as everyone else is. What I said is what I think helps the most...practice...practice...practice.
Write the scene out completely and then go back and cut out the fat, the filler, the stuff you don't want or need in it. There were some others posts that talked about real characters with real back stories, stuff that we never get a glimpse of onscreen, but tehy need to be there to make the characters "real".
Same with each scene. Lots of stuff takes place before and after teh scene that we see or read. If you know what that is, than you can make the decision what exactly to show. Know what I mean?
Spend a few years as a screenwriter, and writing a scene becomes an almost unconscious process. It’s like driving a car. Most of us don’t think about the ignition and the pedals and the turn signals — but we used to, back when we were learning. It used to flummox the hell out of us. Every intersection was unbelievably stressful, with worries of stalling the car and/or killing everyone on board.
It’s the same with writing a scene. The first few are brutal and clumsy. But once you’ve written (and rewritten) say, 500 scenes, the individual steps sort of vanish. But they’re still there, under the surface. It’s just that your instinct is making a lot of the decisions your conscious brain used to handle.
So here’s my attempt to introspect and describe what I’m doing that I’m not even aware I’m doing. Here’s How to Write a Scene.
1. Ask: What needs to happen in this scene? Many screenwriting books will tell you to focus on what the characters want. This is wrong. The characters are not responsible for the story. You are. If characters were allowed to control their scenes, most characters would chose to avoid conflict, and movies would be crushingly boring.
The question is not, “What could happen?” or “What should happen?” It is only, “What needs to happen?” If you wrote an outline, this is the time to look at it.1 If you didn’t, just come up one or two sentences that explain what absolutely must happen in the scene.
2. Ask: What’s the worst that would happen if this scene were omitted? Imagine the projectionist screwed up and accidentally lopped off this scene. Would the movie still make sense? If the answer is “yes,” then you don’t really need the scene, and shouldn’t bother writing it.
But it’s so dramatic! you say. But it’s so funny!
Tough. Put that drama or that comedy into scenes that are crucial to the movie.2 One thing you learn after a few produced movies is that anything that can be cut will be cut, so put your best material into moments that will absolutely be there when it’s done.
3. Ask: Who needs to be in the scene? Scripts are often clogged with characters who have no business being there. But because words are small, it’s easy to overlook that “Haversmith” hasn’t said or done anything for five pages. And sadly, sometimes that’s not realized until after filming.3
4. Ask: Where could the scene take place? The most obvious setting for a scene is generally the least interesting, so don’t be too quick to set your scene in the police bullpen, a living room, or a parking garage. Always consider what the characters could be doing, even if it’s not directly related to the focus of the scene. A father-and-son bonding moment at a slaughter house will play differently than the same dialogue at a lawn bowling tournament.
5. Ask: What’s the most surprising thing that could happen in the scene? Give yourself permission to step away from your outline and consider some wild possibilities. What if a car smashed through the wall? What if your hero choked and died? What if a young boy vomited up a finger?
Most of your scenes won’t have one of these out-of-nowhere aspects. But your movie needs to have a few moments that are completely unexpected, so always ask yourself, could this be one of them?
6. Ask: Is this a long scene or a short scene? There’s nothing so dispiriting as writing a great three-page mega-scene and realizing that you could have accomplished just as much in two-eighths of a page.4 So ask yourself up front: How much screen time am I willing to give to this scene?
7. Brainstorm three different ways it could begin. The classic advice is to come into a scene as late as you possibly can. Of course, to do that, you really need to know how the previous scene ended. There’s often a natural momentum that suggests what first image or line of dialogue would be perfect to open the scene. But don’t stop at the first option. Find a couple, then…
8. Play it on the screen in your head. At least 50% of screenwriting is simply sitting there with your eyes closed, watching the unwritten scene loop in your head. The first couple of times through, it’s really rough: a blocking rehearsal. But eventually, you start to hear the characters talk to each other, and the vague motions become distinct actions. Don’t worry if you can’t always get the scene to play through to the end — you’re more likely to find the exit in the writing than in the imagining.
Don’t rush this step. Let the scene percolate. Mumble the dialogue. Immerse yourself as fully into the moment as you can.
9. Write a scribble version. A “scribble version” is essentially a cheat sheet so you’ll remember the great scene you just saw in your head. Don’t write sentences; don’t write full dialogue. It shouldn’t take more than five minutes. Just get the bare minimum down so that you won’t forget the scene in the next hour as you’re writing it.
I generally hand-write a scribble version in tiny print — sometimes literally on the back of an envelope — but you can also type. This is what a scribble version consists of for me:
DUNCAN waiting edge of seat ITO I was one of the doctors who worked on your wife accident injuries severe, trauma team, sorry, couldn’t save her (sits, reflex) nature of injuries, concern fetus wouldn’t survive in utero. paramedic able deliver caesarian boy healthy (nodding not hearing) nurse can take you to see him, know a lot to handle what a lot to handle take me to see him? yes see who? your son. paramedic was able to (grabs clipboard) I know this may seem My wife wasn’t pregnant Your wife didn’t tell you… My wife has never been pregnant. been trying three years. fertility clinic last week I examined the baby myself. nearly at term. I don’t know whose baby, not hers. It’s kind of a mess, and really wouldn’t make sense to anyone but me — and only shortly after I wrote it. But that doesn’t matter. The scribble version is only there so you don’t get lost or confused while writing the full version of the scene. Yes, it’s finally time to…
10. Write the full scene. If you typed up the scribble version, don’t just try to fatten it out. Start clean. The scribble version is deliberately crappy, and rewritten crap is still crap.
The scribble version is your outline for the scene. Yes, allow yourself the chance to detour from your scribble version if a truly better idea comes along. But if you’ve really spent the time to play it through in your head (#, it’s probably on the right track already.
Depending on the nature of the scene, getting the dialogue right may be most of the work. Regardless, focus on choosing the best words to describe the characters, the action and tone, so your readers will see the same scene in their heads.
11. Repeat 200 times. I’m neither pro nor anti-outline. They can be a useful way of figuring out how the pieces might fit together. They’re nearly essential in television, where many minds need to coordinate. But sticking too closely to an outline is dangerous. It’s like following Google Maps when it tells you to take Wilshire. ↩ Do my own scripts hold up to this (admittedly harsh) standard? Yes, largely, but feel free to correct me where you disagree. Big Fish has quite a few meanders and detours, but that’s very much on-topic — it’s the reason the son is so frustrated. ↩ As an example: Kal Penn in Superman Returns. He’s basically an extra. ↩ Scenes are measured in eighths. You really do say two-eighths, not one-quarter. ↩
i would personally say that the section that says you should cut interesting scenes that don't necessarily move the scene forward isn't always the best thing to do.
I can think of two examples of scenes that aren't hugely important to the respective stories that were perhaps the best scenes in the film, you might be able to think of some as well.
1, The scene in Gremlins when the woman talks about her father climbing down the chimney, dressed as Santa Claus. It's brilliant. The Producers wanted to cut it. Spielberg said he didn't get it but would take the writers side if he really wanted it, so it stayed. It's brilliant.
2. The duelling banjoe's scenes in deliverance. was it absolutely crucial to what was to follow? I would say not, the scene plays for quite some time. But it's an iconic moment in cinema.
I do think that we are trying to entertain and entertaining things, even if they are not absolutely crucial to the plot, are still of interest to the audience.
Agree 100%, Dec. Great point. So many examples of such scenes. Every scene does njot have to move things forward, nor do they have to be crucial to the story.
I think making the scene interesting is important. It's about execution, in my opinion. John August's scriptcast on "Writing better scene openings" is great.
There is a tendency of writing a lot of version 1 scenes without realizing how boring they are to readers. I recall a lot of my scenes in the past involving characters entering a scene, talking, then exiting, with little to no thought about cinematic action.
That version 1 scene was absolutely horrendous. Doesn't take alot to write a better scene than that.
Oooh, I don't know. Easier said than done. Version 1 scenes are pretty common. And it's pretty easy to be guilty of them without realizing it. I know I am. But being able to pick them out in your own work is important, in my opinion.
I think having an eye for cinematic scenes is a tougher skill to possess than many people envisage. I've been humbled many times in my screenwriting and filmmaking experiences to realize this.
“Kara is checking into the town’s small hotel. The HOTEL MANAGER is in his 30’s.”
Well, I’d say these opening 2 lines are downright terrible, any way you look at them. First of all, both lines are very dull. First line is passive. Second descriptive line tells us nothing other than his age. Both lines use “is” as the main verb.
I mean, they’re both just awful.
The dialogue that follows is all just a complete waste, as it’s such a mundane thing being discussed (checking in, etc.).
I’m not saying that we don’t see this garbage over and over, but in my eyes, it’s blatantly obvious what’s wrong here and that just about anything different would be better.
�Kara is checking into the town�s small hotel. The HOTEL MANAGER is in his 30�s.�
Well, I�d say these opening 2 lines are downright terrible, any way you look at them. First of all, both lines are very dull. First line is passive. Second descriptive line tells us nothing other than his age. Both lines use �is� as the main verb.
I mean, they�re both just awful.
The dialogue that follows is all just a complete waste, as it�s such a mundane thing being discussed (checking in, etc.).
That is the problem you have with the first line? The verbiage? If he had "Kara Checks into the hotel" it feels the same way. He used "is" because that's where we found her.
The problem I have with the first line is that it is vague. If I don't know what checking into a hotel looks like, I wouldn't be able to picture it. When Kara slides her ID cards over, I can see those specific actions.
Re the second line; I am not a fan of such descriptions. At a writer's meetup, an actress reading a script gave feedback sayiing physical description that does nothing to mention the personality/mood/situation of the character is unhelpful. I agree with her.
What he did though, was add attitude to the hotel manager. That's his conflict.
I've got nothing but problems with the first and second line.
Checking into a hotel is something that anyone should understand, but as I said, it's a mundane action that no one wants or needs to see (unless soemthing odd or insightful is going to occur).
Don't get me wrong you guys, I think August makes perfect sense adn does a good job with what he's going for. My point is that the passage he's using is one that just about anyone with any writing knowledge could improve upon.
I've got nothing but problems with the first and second line.
Checking into a hotel is something that anyone should understand, but as I said, it's a mundane action that no one wants or needs to see (unless soemthing odd or insightful is going to occur).
Don't get me wrong you guys, I think August makes perfect sense adn does a good job with what he's going for. My point is that the passage he's using is one that just about anyone with any writing knowledge could improve upon.
Not everyone's been to a hotel or travelled or any such thing. No assumptions. Writers should have specific visuals instead of editorializing.
I personally didn't think the other scene was heads and shoulders better. The mood remains the same and no change occurred. Just a bit of conflict. But it still worked because it created interest.
One thing that could add to the thread is to try to connect your scene with the previous and following one in a way that helps build the pacing of the story.
For example, ending one scene with an image and open the next one with another one that relates to the first one (in an absurd example, ending with a lightbulb and then opening with the sun), or ending the first scene with a line that drives out directly to what we would be watching in the next one (like "where the hell is Jack?" and then cutting to his scene, showing us where the hell is him).
I just remembered one more thing that could help you. I believe it's in McKee's Story, but I've only used it on critical scenes on my scripts, not in all of them.
Consists in shaping the dialogue in terms of beats, making one sentence that a characters says an action that results in the other one's reaction (that may or may not be a dialogue), and then take that reaction and turn it into an action that results in a reaction, and so on... Action and reaction, action and reaction.
It's really helpful on the crisis and climax development of your story, and it even helps crucial turning points to be dynamic.
On Sunday at a screenwriter's meetup, the moderator played the scene Lt. Col Markinson got dressed in full uniform before putting his gun in his mouth and pulling the trigger. The sound of the gunshot blended into the thunderclap of the storm outside. That, I think was a good transition for the next scene...
Also in and of itself, it was a remarkable scene. Full of tension and culminating into surprise.
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