Quoted from Grandma Bear Bert, this discussion might work better if you tell us what to discuss. Just a suggestion of course.

I'll try, then.

Quoted from Z Either Bert tells us what to discuss or we start discussing him.

And thus begins the most boring thread on the history of the boards.

Quoted from Cornetto ...bert kind of planned this as free for all

Not so much a free-for-all as not wanting to limit the discussion to my own tastes.

To toss something out, based upon previous posts, might be the character of Philostrate.

I did not see much growth there.  He starts off accepting the faeries just fine (Tourmaline) and then ends up pretty much where he began, with Vignette.

I hate to keep returning to Blade Runner -- but there, Deckard grew over the course of the story -- and only came to accept the Replicants on their own terms over time.

How much better had Tourmaline been just another trick to Philostrate -- one of many in his past.  He could have still been "framed" -- and then experienced similar growth over the course of the story through Vignette.

Had Philostrate been darker at the outset, I think the noir feel this author is obviously going for would have come through with more impact.

Maybe somebody agrees with this or thinks I am wrong?

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. What does it mean to be human?

Some posts popped up while I was typing.  Here again is a link to Blade Runner.

To me, this film could achieve that kind of feel so easily.

Quoted from rendevous I did hear, on good authority, that he's a woman, despite his name. As I've mentioned previously, that would explain a lot. So is he or not?

Ha.  Ask Z about that.  I hear gender confusion is his "thing".

Quoted from bert I'll try, then. To toss something out, based upon previous posts, might be the character of Philostrate. I did not see much growth there.  He starts off accepting the faeries just fine (Tourmaline) and then ends up pretty much where he began, with Vignette. I hate to keep returning to Blade Runner -- but there, Deckard grew over the course of the story -- and only came to accept the Replicants on their own terms over time. How much better had Tourmaline been just another trick to Philostrate -- one of many in his past.  He could have still been "framed" -- and then experienced similar growth over the course of the story through Vignette. Had Philostrate been darker at the outset, I think the noir feel this author is obviously going for would have come through with more impact. Maybe somebody agrees with this or thinks I am wrong?

I think because this story parallels life, one can't expect Philo's original condition to look dark. Rather, it's like a baby when it's born, looks and seems completely innocent; yet what is to be revealed comes later. Indeed, the darkness comes later.

Like a religious person who has some kind of false sense of themselves. Meaning well, but really covering up the real issues. I think the growth comes in the revelation of the darkness; not by starting out dark, although that is just the polar opposite of the same-- the reverse of the story. Where one would start with a very dark character and thus, we would ask ourselves: How? How did he become so?

It would be possible to change this and write this in reverse, but it's one and the same thing except that time runs from light to the revelation of darkness and back.

Sandra  

Quoted from bert How much better had Tourmaline been just another trick to Philostrate -- one of many in his past.  He could have still been "framed" -- and then experienced similar growth over the course of the story through Vignette.

I didn't feel anything on Philo's part. But i felt for Tourmaline... She wanted him to take her away. I know that became a driving part of the story. If he would've... maybe she'd have lived.  It was his driving guilt. But he didn't. I admired her adoration of him. She was a prostitute, but would have left everything for him. She never held her love back. He was a fool to ignore it IMO. That's what made it hard for me to like him. I still did nonetheless.

I did find it confusing when he got jealous waiting outside her door.... Then beats the man to a pulp. i really thought it was gonna be the two of them that gets through this story early on. Though, it did make it more painful when she was murdered. I also like Vignette very much.

Quoted from bert Ha.  Ask Z about that.  I hear gender confusion is his "thing".

Someone is going to have to explain this comment to me.  

Quoted from jwent6688 I didn't feel anything on Philo's part. But i felt for Tourmaline... She wanted him to take her away. I know that became a driving part of the story. If he would've... maybe she'd have lived.  (omissions - please refer to post)

This is a very interesting post for me because in the game of Thief, where I've begun immersing myself into the character of Jeana-Marie, this is what I feel:

Jeana-Marie

I want Gabriel to come and physically strip me. In every sense. I want him to come and take me away from all of this. But I keep hesitating and I don't know why. I don't understand any of this and I feel bad because I'm hurting him.

**

Ok so what's it mean to cross threads? I think I'll think up a word for that, consider it and place it in The Urban Dictionary online.

Sandra

Just finished it in about 3 hours, while doing my work at the same time.  Because it was SO cool I couldn't stop reading it.  I LOVED it!

Beautiful imagery, full of grit and grime, bricks and cobblestones and gas and steam and life.  I could see the whole world sprawling on the screen.  Just the kind of place I love in the movies.  

Wonderful characters created with all the failings, longings, loving, and hatred of real critters, and the way they all shared those same traits even if they weren't humans came off as real too.  Bigotry, just as we have always, and will always have, unfortunately, shown so well between fantasy races brought to life and humans was so perfectly done.

It doesn't matter to me one iota that the storyline for this didn't even pretend to try and waiver from the well-worn paths of pretty much every mega-movie ever made.  Once I saw that beautiful city peopled by all those awesome characters there on the screen, I'd be sucked right in for the ride.  What a great script.  

I sure hope this gets produced, with a budget big enough to do it right!

Thanks for choosing this script, Bert.  It's awesome!

Quoted from bert It is hard for me to tell, Pia. It seems most of the posts say they are some fraction of the way through, or up to some specific page -- so I get the impression that many are still reading. So I hate to discuss spoilers -- but at the same time, maybe we should move on and let the rest play catch-up. I guess I will just warn those still reading that they should hurry up. Yes -- the day that Jeff runs out of comments, I suppose we might as well pull the plug and shutter the doors.

I appreciate the people that warn here of spoilers because I'm at page 60. Don't worry though if you don't use the big dirty spoilers word. I won't hold it against you.

Sandra

Quoted from steven8 Just finished it in about 3 hours, while doing my work at the same time.  Because it was SO cool I couldn't stop reading it.  I LOVED it! Beautiful imagery, full of grit and grime, bricks and cobblestones and gas and steam and life.  I could see the whole world sprawling on the screen.  Just the kind of place I love in the movies.   Wonderful characters created with all the failings, longings, loving, and hatred of real critters, and the way they all shared those same traits even if they weren't humans came off as real too.  Bigotry, just as we have always, and will always have, unfortunately, shown so well between fantasy races brought to life and humans was so perfectly done. It doesn't matter to me one iota that the storyline for this didn't even pretend to try and waiver from the well-worn paths of pretty much every mega-movie ever made.  Once I saw that beautiful city peopled by all those awesome characters there on the screen, I'd be sucked right in for the ride.  What a great script.   I sure hope this gets produced, with a budget big enough to do it right! Thanks for choosing this script, Bert.  It's awesome!

Wow and Wow times ten and again!!!! This is how I feel. I'm still reading, but I just want to thank Bert for this gem.

I'm in complete ignorance when it comes to the movie world and to have this just opened to me is beyond any words that I can express.

I need to make lots of money so that I can pay Bert back. Seriously, I feel like I owe.

Sandra

Quoted from bert I did not see much growth there.  He starts off accepting the faeries just fine (Tourmaline) and then ends up pretty much where he began, with Vignette.

This is key. With all those characters that had a discriminatory attitude towards faries... why not make the protagonist one of them?

Through his investigation, aside from cracking the case, he could also have learnt the real nature of these creatures, start to respect them, and even to love one of them. This would have added a whole new dimension to Philostrate.

Kind of the "I. Robot" approach, in which the detective in charge of investigating the first murder commited by a robot was a robot-hating technophobic guy.

Quoted Text Ha.  Ask Z about that.  I hear gender confusion is his "thing".

Speaking of gender confusion, I got new pics in my inbox fron an anonymous source. Bert looked pretty much as a guy, but he was dressed as a fairy. Draw your own conclusions.  

I think that's also why this didn't work for me at all besides the reading which was a chore for me. I didn't like the main character. I felt absolutely nothing for him. I couldn't care less if he got caught, killed or whatever. I think Z's suggestion would have added to his character in a positive way, but the way he's written now leaves me cold, but I'm a cold Swede so what do I know.

Here's my take on Philo:

Readers have could claimed that Philo reacts to news from others instead of detective work but isn’t that detecting? Flute was more the Sherlock Holmes type. I saw Philo and Flute as James Bond and M.

He could have shown more emotional attachment to his faery lover but that was the point. To further burden Philo with guilt.

A fight with another of Tourmaline's clients Philo showed he was angry at himself/the world.

Some more back story on Philo’s childhood and decision to become a detective would help. His lack of emotion or cool reaction to everything isn’t in line with his past in the faery world. With his history, Philo could be a bleeding heart or activist for the faery rights movement not law and order.

Also, he used to be a Mabsynthe addict but now he’s not. Just feel off the wagon for a night? Another drunk cop who wants to stay sober. He loathes himself.

If the Mayor could have a faery wife, why is it a stigma in Philo’s mind?

Both Tourmaline and Vignette completed Philo emotionally. At the end, Philo takes Vignette away like Tourmaline wanted to do.

****

Don't get me wrong, I gushed about this script when I first read it. Still love it. I've just had some time to think about it.

Gary

OK, I've finished the script and I see this as a movie most definitely and absolutely in every way. I feel it as a movie.

It has complete substance and unification that rises to the level of The Curious Case of Benjamin Button and The Time Traveller's Wife. It is the stuff of a Ray Bradbury and Charle's Dickens. It shows it's execution within and around its words.

I will revisit this again, but for now, a few notes:

page 66

FLUTE (CONT'D)
Damn. Where does this drain lead?
Interjection by Sandra
Well, my dear Flute, you see it's like this:
INT. BAR - CONTINUED

Cornetto takes the biggest flying leap you've ever seen- grabs the gun and points at

Bush:
Cornetto
I win!

But suddenly he FALLS THROUGH the floor.

To:

INT. TANK DECK- ENGINE ROOM 104  
Lying in a heap of plasma, he watches, secretly, inquisitive:

** and it's called fallus phenomenus. Very strange.
With this here:

QUILL
Well, now, this is where it starts
looking bad. They're saying it was
Guinevere Cartier.

**I'm reminded of 911 and the "reason and blame" and where it was placed.

Here:

>ALCANDRE
I am the Twiner. The Almighty

Alchemist of Chaos.
This is the same one, Choronzon in Cielo.

Page 112

>But before she can finish her plea, a group of Faeries take
to the air.

They catch Philostrate.

Cradling his limp body, they descend back to the roof.

**As he descends, the faeries ascend. It is a meeting.

More later. I have to catch a Zeppelin. Maybe Led Zeppelin you know.

Sandra

Sandra comes back in through the door after leaving. So forgetful you know.

Sandra
Oops. Here you go.

Stairway to Heaven Lyrics.

There's a lady who's sure
All that glitters is gold
And shes buying a stairway to heaven.
When she gets there she knows
If the stores are all closed
With a word she can get what she came for.
Ooh, ooh, and shes buying a stairway to heaven.

There's a sign on the wall
But she wants to be sure
cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.
In a tree by the brook
There's a songbird who sings,
Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it makes me wonder.

There's a feeling I get
When I look to the west,
And my spirit is crying for leaving.
In my thoughts I have seen
Rings of smoke through the trees,
And the voices of those who standing looking.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it really makes me wonder.

And its whispered that soon
If we all call the tune
Then the piper will lead us to reason.
And a new day will dawn
For those who stand long
And the forests will echo with laughter.

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow
Don't be alarmed now,
Its just a spring clean for the may queen.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road youre on.
And it makes me wonder.

Your head is humming and it wont go
In case you don't know,
The pipers calling you to join him,
Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow,
And did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul.
There walks a lady we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How evrything still turns to gold.
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last.
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll.

And she's buying a stairway to heaven.

Led Zeppilin

Sandra, Sandra Sandra...OK, it's too early in Canada to be drinking heavily at the moment (at least for most).  So, based on these last 2 posts, I now have to assume Psychedelics or some really good weed are in play.

What in the world does this have to do with this thread?

But then again, what in the world does my post have to do with this thread, knowing I didn't even read the script?

Please send me some of whatever you've got, pronto!  I am in great need.  Thanks in advance!