Meet Joe by Xavier Gonzalez - Short - Joe is a homeless man in the city who loves to smoke and has a bad COUGH... 3 pages.  - pdf, format

The biggest problem with this script is that you don't give the reader anything about Joe to like.  Are you trying to make us be like the passerby's in the story.  Joe have Joe doing this.  Joe doing that.  Joe doing something else.  And the story ends.  I think if you had him do something positive, or nice, I might care about him.  Right now I don't.

Some of your descriptions could be a little tighter.  If you introduce him as JOE in the first paragraph, instead of the third, it looks like you could eliminate on line on the page.

Quoted Text EXT. CITY STREETS- DAY Joe counts the money from inside the stolen cup. It is not too much but enough for him. He walks into a convenience store.

This passage isn't needed.  Delete that you saved another five lines.

I recommend that, in the future, you do not submit first drafts.  A lot of people, here, don't like to read them because they are so problematic.  Instead, put it away for a bit and then look at it with fresh eyes.  You'll see a lot of things to change, yourself, and will be able to submit a better script.


Phil

Thanks Phil for the comment, and yes you're right the whole point of this story is that YOU the reader are like the passerby's in the story, you're not supposed to care for this character, he's just like every other homeless person you see on the streets, he can give less a crap if you care for him or not (which you don't) he just wants to survive. That's exactly why I ended the story the way I did, cause he's just another pointless homeless person in the streets of the busy city. No one needs him there and therefore he no longer is.

And about the actions: First, I announced his name in the third paragraph because he's a pointless character, his name isn't really important in my story. And that paragraph that you told me to delete, well I only wrote it like that because if you think of it visually he's expressing the way the money makes him feel, he can buy another packs of smokes, so when I say "it's enough for him" then it could just mean that he smiles, only I put a little more feeling into it.

So thanks for the comment, Phil. And thanks for posting the script, Don.

Hey mate, just read it. You could actually cut quite a bit off of this.

EXT. PUBLIC PARK - DAWN

JOE (34), a tramp, sits on a bench, his face maintains no
emotion. A cigarette hangs from his mouth. He lights it,
takes a long drag, COUGHS.

People walk past without a care. Children point and laugh,
disgruntled parents cart them away.

Joe grunts. He gets up and begins to walk the path.

That's my quick re-write. I've described the same scene but I've cut off the stuff that doesn't need to be there.

At the moment the story is about a homeless man that dies and what you're trying to get across is that nobody cares. Fair enough, but you could make this event so much more tragic. If you paint the tramp as a person who tries hard to get a job but is let down at every oppurtunity, the character already has my sympathy. What about the tramp trying to get in contact with his family who won't help him out?.

If you include something like this we can symphathize with the character.

From the script, I didn't get the impression that this person wanted to survive, I got the impression that he wanted it all to be over. If he wanted to survive why the hell would he buy cigarettes? Because he's at the bottom and doesn't care.

Thanks for the read. Actually the reason he buys cigarettes is for the same reason most people do: he thinks he can't survive without it. And he knows the difference between a cigarette and the things that can really keep him alive, that's why he trades one for food.

Another thing is that the story is not supposed to be tragic, I've NEVER thought of it liked that. In my mind Joe is one of those guys that I've always wondered what would they be like if you gave them their lives back? You're not supposed to care for him in a way in which you say: "Why doesn't somebody help him" but just to the point where you think: "Why doesn't he have more to live off of?"

but I will check over my writing, thanks for the tips and again for the read. If you have anything you want me to read just go ahead and tell me.

Quoted from Script_Monkey From the script, I didn't get the impression that this person wanted to survive, I got the impression that he wanted it all to be over. If he wanted to survive why the hell would he buy cigarettes? Because he's at the bottom and doesn't care.

I've been to hospices where cigarettes (and booze) are given to the residents.  A lot of people think it's weird to give people smokes when they only have a few weeks to live.  The reason behind it is that the hospice isn't there to cure the residents, just to make them comfortable in their last days.

The same applies here.


Phil

Quoted from Xavier Thanks Phil for the comment, and yes you're right the whole point of this story is that YOU the reader are like the passerby's in the story, you're not supposed to care for this character,

I understood this.  But the story isn't interesting unless you care about the character.


Phil

Well if you want you can think of it in a way as a Black Comedy, the whole goal of a black comedy is to make a character that is unlikeable, someone that if he died at the end you'd say "Good" or "ah, who gives a shit".

But if you'd like I could always go back and put in some extra things about the character, there was a lot about the character that I left out things that could point out why he's the way he is.

I think you need to add something.

And I don't agree with your black comedy explanation.  B;ack comedies are either parodies or comedies of subjects to grim for comedies.


Phil

True but if you look up the definition of a black comedy character you will see that what I say is true: But what I'm trying to say is that it's easier to kill off a character in a black comedy than it is in any other type of genre accept for horror.

Quoted from Xavier But what I'm trying to say is that it's easier to kill off a character in a black comedy than it is in any other type of genre accept for horror.

I'm gonna disagree with you on this, too.

If a character isn't properly developed, the genre doesn't matter.


Phil

Hey Xavier,

I just read this little script of yours, and honestly I don't particularly like it in its current form, mainly because of the reasons Phil gave. The story would become so much stronger if Joe was more likeable. I had a really hard time feeling sorry for him in the end. If you improve this aspect, you'll wind up with a far more interesting script.

About this passage:

MAN
I don't see why those people can't
go get real lives.

I couldn't really imagine the man saying that, it didn't really flow in my head. Just to give a suggestion:

MAN
Sorry hon, but I just don't understand why these people are throwing away their lives.

Just my two cents

Cool, thanks for the read.

And yeah I understand that people like to feel things for the many characters of a story. Of course I wasn't trying to go for a Stranger Than Fiction character where you're thinking why does he have to die, I just wanted to show how a homeless person lives his last day, which I forgot to mention to Phil and Script_Monkey. And plus I doubt that you would care for a real homeless person that you see walking through the streets steeling, smoking and coughing in your face, would you?

Anyhow thanks for the read again and the comment, I'll try to fix up the script as much as I can. Maybe make Joe a bit more likable, maybe you'll give it a better review next time.

Hello Xavier,

I've read your script and the comments above.

I can see you're aim of writing the last day of this homeless man.  But I don't get it, why?  

You got to have a reason, a purpose to show us how crap this man's life is.  How it got this way.  Otherwise it's practically another day in his life except he dies.  

Remember, nobody nowadays are born homeless.  So what happened?

I think you should have this character full of remorse and with no motivation.  This way we can have a glimpse into his life.  From where he came to where he is now.

Aside from that, you have a few spelling errors and grammar errors to correct.  But I believe you're improving on your previous scripts.

All the best,


Javier

Thanks for the comment, Javier.

Yeah I try to make each script better than the last. But on my schedule that's hard to do. So I'm surprised that I can even find the time to write even a three page long script.

I understand how all of you would like to feel for Joe. Maybe his death can be a little more meaningful, but even if I do add more about the character nothing will make his death more meaningful, I mean he dies from a nasty illness that he had no idea about, he's homeless he doesn't really care much about his health, he just wants to survive, that's all. I guess what I'm saying is that no matter how much more stuff I put in it's not going to change the way the ending makes you feel "unchanged" there is no sadness or happiness in my ending, it just is and once again I don't think anything can change that.

But I will take your advice and add a little more to the character to reveal more about Joe to you.

Hi Xavier,

I understand where everyone is coming from with the “likeable” advice, but I think there is more to it than that.  What I don’t quite grasp is your aim of creating a character nobody cares about.  I don’t feel that a character, even a main character, has to be likeable – that’s just the easiest way to go, so it is the most common.  With that said, a character MUST be interesting, likeable or not.  Creating a character that is not interesting, and that we don’t like, then presenting that character in a “slice of life” vignette where there is no tension or conflict, means you have a story that is not going to appeal to the majority of people.  It may make a fair artsy, experimental film where your meta-statement about homeless people is the main purpose, but it will not be something people will likely be able to feel a real connection with.  Even if they “get” your message, they won’t feel it, or give it as much weight.

I do understand the drive to create film stories that go against the norm, and don’t follow the same old formula.  This is a tricky task to pull off, even for the most experienced writers.  But the reason that the norm is what it is, and those formulas exist, is because they have been tried and tested over the course of millennia, and it is what most often leads to telling an engaging story.  

It’s all about having something to communicate.  In order for us to get an audience to listen to what we want to tell them, we have to give them something in return – otherwise we are just preaching at them, and no one enjoys that.  In order to get across what we want to say, we need to entertain our readers and viewers.  We do that with interesting characters, who want something that we can identify with.  We do that by raising dramatic questions that the audience wants to learn the answer to.  We do that by providing tension, drama, laughs, scares, tender moments, and, sometimes, big explosions.

Your message is “nobody cares about homeless people,” including us (the audience).  I have to disagree with your premise.  There are many, many good folks who care about homeless people and their problems, and work tirelessly to assist them.  As a matter of fact, I suspect that your audience will mostly be made up of people who come into the film caring more about homeless people.  If I don’t care about homeless people, why would I want to see a film about homeless people?  If I do care, I’d be attracted to your film and want to see it.  So I think your reasoning on this may be somewhat flawed.

Okay, so you’ve created Joe to teach us about how nobody cares about the homeless.  He wakes up, wanders around coughing, grunting and hissing at people, steals money from another homeless guy (money that uncaring people gave him), buys cigs, trades a cig for pizza, returns to his bench and dies.  The problem I find with this series of events demonstrating your point is that I never get the sense that Joe would accept anyone’s help.  If there was someone who cared, and tried to help Joe, his character is such that I would expect him to reject the help.  He’s too “proud” to beg for money, apparently, and would rather steal from his fellows that accept a hand out.  

Since you’ve made Joe someone seemingly incapable of receiving help, or at the very least projecting a “leave me alone” attitude, your message gets lost.  We understand why people don’t care about Joe, and we agree.  It’s hard to blame the people in the story who are put off or disgusted by this guy, since he is purposefully off-putting and disgusting.  Your message, therefore, ends up being more along the lines of, “homeless people don’t want to be cared about,” which is not what you want to say (I don’t believe).

If, for example, Joe starts off the way you portray him, and realizes along the way that he’s sick (perhaps when he coughs up blood), and that he’s going to die, and this makes him stop and reevaluate his behavior.  He’s afraid to die, or there’s one last thing he needs to do before he dies, and he realizes that he can’t achieve whatever it is without help.  He reaches out, swallowing his gruff pride, and seeks help.  He finds that no one is willing to help him, he’s dismissed and mistreated, even though he’s trying his best.  He ends up dying, cold and alone, and we feel something.  

This is a tragic scenario, one that could elicit many different reactions, not just because of our personal view on the homeless, but because of the very relatable human circumstances Joe faces that we can all identify with.  I’ve never been homeless, but I can identify with feeling alone, or being afraid of dying.  As someone mentioned earlier, Joe doesn’t care if he dies, so neither do we.  If Joe doesn’t care, then homeless people don’t care if they die, so we don’t need to care about them dying.  If, on the other hand, I can connect with Joe as a homeless man, and see that he has the same fears and desires as I do, then I can see that we share the same experiences of humanity, and now I am engaged, and I’m open to your message.

Format/Mechanical Notes:
General: Don’t cap “coughs.”  I don’t recommend capping sounds at all, but even when you are using this style, you don’t cap sounds that the actor makes, only sound effects that come from somewhere else that aren’t generated by the action on screen (for example a siren in the distance, or a crash in the next room).
Pg. 1: You say you don’t mention Joe’s name until the 3rd paragraph because his name isn’t important.  If this is the case, why do you give him a name?  If you do name him, then waiting until the 3rd paragraph isn’t going to translate onto the screen, so what’s the point?  Just name him when we first see him.
Pg. 1: You use “CITY STREETS” as a location in several places.  Does this mean we are moving locations from one street to another, and maybe another?  I would stick with “CITY STREET” to avoid any confusion.
Pg. 1: “Poeple” should be “People”
Pg. 2: “Gum” should be “gum”
Pg. 3: “The bench Joe awoken on is empty.” – This is very awkward.  Get rid of the passive voice stuff (“is”), and try something like “Joe approaches the same newspaper-strewn bench he woke up on earlier in the day.”  You replace two lines with one, and make it more active.
Pg. 3: “into frame” – Get rid of camera references; it takes us out of the story.  You also have a couple walking OS earlier – see if you can rework that as well.

Good luck!

Thanks for the comment, a little long but I get your point.

I would just like to point out: you say that Joe is a man who rejects help, you're right, he does so because he has pride, he doesn't want people to think that just because he's homeless he needs everyone to care for him. But he would accept help like most homeless people would. I once knew this homeless man who Joe was based off of who would stand outside of a Truck Stop yelling at people fro looking at him. I gave that man twenty dollars and he gave me a hug and said "God Bless You" I'm not sure he meant it, but it just shows that even the worst of people will accept the right type of help.

Some one DID mention that Joe doesn't care if he dies, that's not really the case, he's not afraid of dying but at the same time he doesn't want to. He tries to hide the fact that he's dying, when he covers up the blood with his coat; which is also part of his not wanting any help because of his pride. So I do give Joe some actual human characteristics.

I like to CAP words that are important, usually I like to do it your way, but when something will soon lead up to something else, like the coughing is what causes Joe's death,  I like to remind the reader that it's there. And I give Joe a name that's simple, very average Joe like, which is were I got the name from, and the title is just a working title, it could easily be changed.  And when I write CITY STREETS it's usually cos I picture those scenes as Tracking Shots or moving shots, they could walk from one street to another, I just don't like to write in camera angels and  stuff into short films.

Thanks for pointing out the typos, I'll make sure to fix it while I revise the script, and I'll take some of that other advice as well, it could use a little more emotion, I agree with that, and I'll try to fix the story up... again, thanks for the comment.

I wanted to punch Joe in the face. Why? Because he didn't say thank-you for the gum.

Joke ^

Quoted from Xavier Thanks for the comment, a little long but I get your point.

Sorry about that.  Won't happen again.

-R

Quoted from Script_Monkey I wanted to punch Joe in the face. Why? Because he didn't say thank-you for the gum.

yeah, the gum was actually supposed to be something important in the script but I cut out the extra scene because it didn't really go with the rest of the story.

And don't worry about the length of the comment rjbelair, I like to read what people have to say about my work.

Xavier

Admirable idea, lacking in delivery.

Joe pays no attention. Just continues to run. -- Could be re written as "Joe pays no attention. He continues to run."

"This person eats a pizza slice from the trash." -- Would work better like this "She eats a pizza slice from the thrash"

MAN
Hey watch it you lazy bum.

MAN
I don't see why those people can't
go get real lives.

These lines don't sit right when I read them. Just calling him a "Bum" would do in the former, while "real lives" sounds a little off in the latter. Maybe say something like "I don't see why those people can't go sort themselves out or "...can't go and get a job"

"The bench Joe awoken on is empty." -- Your tenses & grammar are mixed up here.

"You've better be worth it." -- "You" instead of "You've"

Very sad ending even if it were enevitable from the beginning. Sorta' reminded me of Barney's film in the film festival episode of the Simpsons.

We merely observe Joe here, there is no narrative or story. just the final hours of a poor homeless dying man. I completely respect what you attempted here, it is an interesting direction to take & for the most part it isn't a bad job but again its your grammar & dialogue that let it down (similar to "People Who Lie" both have interesting concepts, its the execution which needs to be worked on)

Once again, best of luck, I truly believe this has some potential.

Col.

Thanks, for the read.

This script, I wrote it like an action instead of a drama-ish like script. I can tell that when people read a drama they like for grammar to actually be there. But when reading an action people like to make it a quick read. So maybe I shouldn't mix the two.

I don't know if you're from New York, but that's were the story might take place, I'm not really sure, even as the writer. But everyone in the story has a New Yorker accent so they skip a few words when they talk. So I guess that can explain the dialog a bit.

Thanks for liking the idea on both my scripts, I just sat down and started writing them, so it didn't take much thought, but again thanks.

Xavier.

Xavier,

I'd have to agree that you need to delve into Joe more.  Right now, we bear witness to Joe's final day, but after he dies, we don't know any more about him.  I understand you were trying to give an unsentimental end to a rough life, but I would have like to known how Joe arrived at this pathetic point.  I think flashbacks would be very useful in a story like this.  Maybe a few glimpses of Joe as a child, Joe in college, Joe married, Joe with his kids and then the event that mentally broke Joe and sent him down this road.  Was it drugs?  Alcohol?  Family tragedy?

You gave us a surface view of Joe, but we need to know more to give a damn about him.  If we don't feel anything when he dies, then the script doesn't work.

Some have already noted that you occasionally over-describe, such as here:

"It is not too much but enough for him."
"They must think he is asleep, or they just don't care."

Those sentences simply aren't necessary, even if you, as the writer, thought they were.  I'm not preaching here, because I've been guilty of doing this myself.  It can be hard to catch these sentences when you've been staring at the screen for hours.

"I guess what I'm saying is that no matter how much more stuff I put in it's not going to change the way the ending makes you feel "unchanged" there is no sadness or happiness in my ending, it just is and once again I don't think anything can change that."

I disagree with that statement.  I think if you dig deeper into Joe and show us the real person beneath the shabby exterior, we would be moved by his death.