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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Horror Scripts  ›  The Vampire Revolution Moderators: bert
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  Author    The Vampire Revolution  (currently 6156 views)
Don
Posted: August 9th, 2009, 9:18am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Vampire Revolution by Aaron Dias (diasaa) - Horror - After the worldwide revelation of the existence of vampires, mankind took steps to contain and oppress the vampire race. When a vampire from ages ago is introduced to this new world, the revolution begins... a revolution destined to change the lives of Hannah and Barry, a couple swept up into the middle of the madness in this romantic-comedy-action-thriller! 100 pages - pdf, format


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diasaa
Posted: August 9th, 2009, 1:17pm Report to Moderator
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Hello! Thanks for posting my script! Just a quick note to readers: I only posted this in the Horror section because it is so cross-genre that it doesn't fit very well into any section. There certainly are some horror elements, but I would never call it a horror film... so please don't review it as such.

Thanks!


The Vampire Revolution - Feature Length Romantic-Comedy-Action-Thriller-Horror

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1249827495/

Life Lessons - Feature Length Dramedy

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-drama/m-1205617443/
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Tommyp
Posted: August 10th, 2009, 8:56pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Aaron. Just reading your script now. Doesn't seem to be many or any formattting issues, so I will not mention that, but more story. One thing, I don't know if you are doing the stock footage right... I'm sure there is a way to be more specific.

The page numbers are on the top left of the PDF viewer, which are slightly different to the actul script page numbers.

18 - jeremy has gone from being "I dunno" kinda guy to a smart, fast talking kinda guy, when he starts talking to Mark. Just be careful to try and keep the actions and dialogue consistant.

19 - Okay I think I've reached the main theme of the script... that yes, vampires killed heaps of people, but humans have too. Is that it? Isn't that quite similar to every vampire tv show/film out there?

20 - "who appears to be very angry" why not just "who is angry"? There is also a bit of passive verbs around here. Try and keep it active. Eg, 'Sven and Jenkins sit at the dining room table talking." could be "Sven and Jenkins sit and talk at the dining room table" Saying that, I would take out the "talk" as they are about to start talking anyway.

21 - Sven saying his plan to take over the world could be done better. It is too blatant, and I think should be more subtle.

21 - This kissing rubbish again. I think you could easily come up with something more original. I know you a re setting it up for them to kiss later, but come on man, it's been done a bazillion times.

24  - They are kissing! Third time lucky hey. I take back what I said in my last comment to a degree, at least you didn't leave it until the end of the script for the first kiss.

25 - Don't call a character "Tall" if it's not their name. "Tall Vampire" be better, but "tall" is just weird.

Okay, I've just realised I don't even know where this is set. Small town, large city, by the sea, by the river... I wouldn't have a clue, and it's hard to picture the scenes.

40 - Why would Sven worry who is at the door if he is so awesome and powerful?

43 - The phonecall conversations are hard to follow and understand. Too long too.

55 - Wouldn't Hannah feel cold to Barry? And Barry would know that she isn't human?

59 - WOAH okay, settle down. What's happened here with Diana and the stepfather?! The tone has changed heaps, and I don't think that bit fits with the rest of the story. Plus, the big bad guy hasn't been seen for aaaages.

I just realised this is mostly dialogue based, and therefore and quick and easy read. You haven't spent too much time on detail, so props for that.

Saying that, I there is so much dialogue which doesn't move the forward story. So much stuff could be cut out, and all the characters seem so smart and know everything. So try and make the characters a lot more different.

67 - Okay I don't buy it. I don't buy the fact that "faith" can make the vampires love and feel and not get hurt by wood and metal...

71 - Finally some action! Took a while. That's except from the start, obviously. I would have liked to see more action in this script, as I think it lacks.

73 - I think Barry would be more upset if his "girlfriend just died". Also, just because Hannah said she loved Barry back, doesn't mean she did.

74 - Why would Jeremy not know what being "hungry" is?

77 - I'm a bit bored. As I've said before, lot's of the characters are the same. I want to know more about them. Have you created bio's for them all?

80 - Okay John and Chuck are officially my two favourite characters. PLEASE give me some reason to like the other, main characters. John and Chuck are such small characters.

82 - Hannah has changed so mcuh from when she was a vampire. Even the way she talks is different, try to keep it the same.

86 - I would have liked to have seen Sven put up a fight before he was killed.

91 - Why would Chuck, John and Jeremy fight their own kind?

96 - If all the other vampires were "evil" when they had turned, why is Hannah not?

Finished. Well done for writing a feature, you have done well.

I did not find this a comedy script though, or a thriller. There was too much fluff dialogue, as I said earlier.

I didn't like the ending either.

Saying that, overall it wasn't a bad story. It had some good themes and ideas, but lacked original and different characters, a good story line, and all the other things I have mentioned above.

Format was great.

I hope I have helped you a bit and don't think I'm being too harsh or mean, I'm just saying what I think.


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diasaa
Posted: August 11th, 2009, 12:37am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read! I'll try to address some of the bigger things you mentioned, and ask for clarification if you don't mind, on the other points.


Quoted Text
jeremy has gone from being "I dunno" kinda guy to a smart, fast talking kinda guy, when he starts talking to Mark. Just be careful to try and keep the actions and dialogue consistant.


-I kind of figured Jeremy would talk and act differently around someone like Mark. I guess I'm not sure that this is inconsistent with who he is, but I was having a bit of trouble with that section of dialogue anyway.


Quoted Text
Okay I think I've reached the main theme of the script... that yes, vampires killed heaps of people, but humans have too. Is that it? Isn't that quite similar to every vampire tv show/film out there?


- Keep reading. I would say there's a lot of themes to this script, but if I had to pick one, I would say it is about fighting your nature to become a better person, and how faith and belief can help with that. That sounds pretentious though, so I would never say that.


Quoted Text
"who appears to be very angry" why not just "who is angry"? There is also a bit of passive verbs around here. Try and keep it active. Eg, 'Sven and Jenkins sit at the dining ...


- I really should work more on the passive/active voice stuff. You're right about that.


Quoted Text
Sven saying his plan to take over the world could be done better. It is too blatant, and I think should be more subtle.


- Sven is intended to be over-the-top in every way. He is an old school vampire that has no qualms about his evil ambitions. I feel like any amount of subtlety doesn't really fit with the character.


Quoted Text
This kissing rubbish again. I think you could easily come up with something more original. I know you a re setting it up for them to kiss later, but come on man, it's been done a bazillion times.


- The whole bit about kissing is partially some of the cute rom-com stuff, but also to show that the world is more sexually reserved thanks to the Catholicism rebirth.


Quoted Text
Okay, I've just realised I don't even know where this is set. Small town, large city, by the sea, by the river... I wouldn't have a clue, and it's hard to picture the scenes.


- It's set in Grand Rapids, MI... where I live currently. I tend to set movies where I live in case I ever end up shooting them. I know this isn't helpful to you, so perhaps I could include a brief description of the city. Or would you like more description of the locations as I introduce them. I just know that when I'm reading a script, I tend to get bored by too much location detail. Maybe I could strike a better balance.


Quoted Text
Why would Sven worry who is at the door if he is so awesome and powerful?


- Swen wasn't worried about the people at the door, just distracted and annoyed. Hannah is presenting more of a struggle than he'd like. Perhaps that could be written differently.


Quoted Text
The phonecall conversations are hard to follow and understand. Too long too.


- I agree that the phone calls are difficult to follow when written out like that, but I've seen it done with actors, and it's much easier. I don't know how to change this for the script other than to break it into chunks... which I might do anyway. As far as their length... um... they're one page.


Quoted Text
Wouldn't Hannah feel cold to Barry? And Barry would know that she isn't human?


- Vampires would be room temperature, which is often how people's skin feel anyway. Add to that the fact that they're in a hot shower and I think you can cut Barry some slack for not realizing right away.


Quoted Text
WOAH okay, settle down. What's happened here with Diana and the stepfather?! The tone has changed heaps, and I don't think that bit fits with the rest of the story.


- As far as tone is concerned... it's kind of meant to be an abrupt shift from happiness to the painful confrontation with the truth. This parallels the Hannah/Barry shower scene. It might be a little off-putting in a script that has been fairly lighthearted, but I think there are enough dark moments to justify this element. At any rate, I need SOME reason for Diana to feel the way she does, and considering how common sexual abuse is, this seemed fitting.


Quoted Text
Plus, the big bad guy hasn't been seen for aaaages.


- Contrary to what my shitty log line would suggest, Sven isn't so much a character as he is a plot device. There's really nothing I wanted to explore about Sven, so he doesn't get a lot of screen time. That's also why he dies so easily. Something may be gained through developing such a character, but I really don't want to distract too much from the main four, and I think that would add to the length.


Quoted Text
Saying that, I there is so much dialogue which doesn't move the forward story. So much stuff could be cut out, and all the characters seem so smart and know everything. So try and make the characters a lot more different.


-As far as the conversations that don't move the plot forward... that's all character development. More than anything else, I would call this a character story. There's not a single conversation in there that doesn't reveal important things about the who the characters are. Maybe this part bored you, which would help explain why you think all the characters are the same. The two relationships are supposed to parallel each other... but everybody wants something different, and are driven by different things. Of all your comments, this one is the most surprising, because I've received fairly good feedback about this aspect of the script from everyone I've sent it to. (Not on this site.) So if you think the characters are underdeveloped and too similar, that's something I really need to address. Could you give me some more specific examples of why you feel this way? What would you cut? What makes you feel like they know everything? Jeremy, the guy that's been around the longest and should know the most, finds himself constantly having to rethink truths that he's believed almost dogmatically. Barry is clueless and trying to figure things out through the whole script. Hannah thinks she knows everything too, but finds herself humbled when Sven turns out to be different than he promised. I don't want to be that guy that won't accept any criticism about his script, and please don't think I'm doing that, but this is the one critique that I don't understand at all.


The Vampire Revolution - Feature Length Romantic-Comedy-Action-Thriller-Horror

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1249827495/

Life Lessons - Feature Length Dramedy

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-drama/m-1205617443/
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diasaa
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Quoted Text
Okay I don't buy it. I don't buy the fact that "faith" can make the vampires love and feel and not get hurt by wood and metal...


- Well, it's a supernatural world. Magic has to be powered by something. Holy objects work through faith, so why can't they be overcome through faith?


Quoted Text
Finally some action! Took a while. That's except from the start, obviously. I would have liked to see more action in this script, as I think it lacks.


- Well the biggest chunk of this script with no fighting or anything is in the middle... but we get a lot of sex there, so hopefully you won't lose interest. I know from experience that sex is more interesting when it's filmed.


Quoted Text
I think Barry would be more upset if his "girlfriend just died". Also, just because Hannah said she loved Barry back, doesn't mean she did.


- Barry's trying to process a lot, including that. Who knows how he'll react?


Quoted Text
Why would Jeremy not know what being "hungry" is?


- Jeremy knows what "hungry" means, but he was reacting to the comment... which seems like a non-sequitor.


Quoted Text
I'm a bit bored. As I've said before, lot's of the characters are the same. I want to know more about them. Have you created bio's for them all?


- What do you want to know about the main characters that's not revealed in the script? Keep in mind that anything I add might not drive the story forward, so it might have to be cut.


Quoted Text
Hannah has changed so mcuh from when she was a vampire. Even the way she talks is different, try to keep it the same.


- Do you not like characters that change? Or is it that you think her change happens too fast?


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Why would Chuck, John and Jeremy fight their own kind?


- It's this comment that really makes me think you weren't paying attention to the story. I really don't mean to sound like an ass, but I would think it'd be pretty obvious that Jeremy would want to help his friend, regardless of what species was threatening her. I'm willing to accept that my writing might make a lot of things unclear, but this is one critique that doesn't make any sense at all.


Quoted Text
If all the other vampires were "evil" when they had turned, why is Hannah not?


- This is also explained, although perhaps not as clearly. Sven taught her the power of belief, which opened herself up to feeling. It was her interaction with Barry, and Sven's actions that changed the way she felt about things. At any rate, she's not fully good anyway. There's sort of a grey area for everybody here.


Quoted Text
I did not find this a comedy script though, or a thriller. There was too much fluff dialogue, as I said earlier.


- A lot of the comedy is in the "fluff" dialogue. If you don't find it funny, that's okay with me. I don't find Two and a Half Men funny. To each their own. The thriller aspects are more toward the end, admittedly. Maybe thriller is the wrong word.


Quoted Text
I didn't like the ending either.


- What didn't you like about the ending? This comment is not helpful at all. I'm pretty sure I know what you didn't like, but I don't want to put words in your mouth by speculating.

Please don't think that by my responding to every point like this that I don't value your opinion. Mostly I'm just a little confused as to why you feel the way you do about a lot of it. To change the things you have problems with, I need a little more to go on. For example, WHAT didn't you like about the ending? What did you want to see happen? What felt unresolved? Etc.

Thanks for the read, at any rate. Some of the feedback was useful, and I'll surely put more thought into a lot of this regardless of whether I'll change it or not.


The Vampire Revolution - Feature Length Romantic-Comedy-Action-Thriller-Horror

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1249827495/

Life Lessons - Feature Length Dramedy

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-drama/m-1205617443/
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Tommyp
Posted: August 11th, 2009, 6:28am Report to Moderator
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Hey man, thanks for the reply. Here are some of my replies:

A great way to add depth to characters is have them do one thing, and then someone describe them as another. So in terms of Jeremy talking differently, a line such as "Oh come on, you know the answer, you're a smart arse" in the scene with Barry could set up the next scene.

I'm not religious, and I see the whole faith argument as weak. Therefore I might dislike this script because of that. So don't take that to heart, it's just me.

A brief description of the city at the start of scenes we haven't seen would be great. Just one or two lines describing the area, what we can see, and on with more action/dialogue.

I think you should make Sven bigger. Make him the real bad guy. Make the audience hate him, so when he dies it's a big deal. At the moment, it's not really a big deal. I would make the fact that he is changing Hannah, for the good, just for himself. And that he doesn't really care about her at all, but just the big picture... taking over the world.

I understand that the conversations are character development, but they could be compressed easily. Consider doing this. It's definately not bad, but could be better.

Make the characters talk differently. Eg, Chuck and John stood because they swore lots, compared to the other characters. Everyone doesn't talk the same, use the same words, etc, so make them different.

Okay, after reading over some dialogue again, I think I have it. They never stuff up. They always know exactly what they are talking about. I don't see much of, "yeah, well maybe" or "I think that... but not sure...". It's always "This is a fact" "This is another one".

Also I don't know who the main character is. Is it Barry? Barry is weak and I don't feel like I like him. I wouldn't mind if he died. Hannah, the girl he loves is dead anyway, right? So he wouldn't be that missed.

Anyway I don't really know how else to say the dialogue isn't crash hot, as I said before, it's definately not bad, just could be better.

"Holy objects work through faith, so why can't they be overcome through faith?" Good. I like that sentence a lot, even though, as I said before, I don't buy the whole faith thing. I think you should say this in the script. You sorta say it I think, in bits, but not fully

Okay back to the main characters again. I want to know what turns them on, and what turns them off. Seriously, create character bios for the main ones if you haven't. I feel like I don't know at all really, after reading it. Maybe it's just me, I would be interested to see what other people think of this point...

I think Hannah should change, I think it just happened too fast.

Yeah, my bad about the  ending comment. I was in a rush to go to my psychology class. Please, for the love of God, don't study psychology
I think you could get a better ending. Yes, it's funny, but the dialogue before doesn't do it justice.... I can't think how to describe why... I will have to get back to you on this...

All the other comments you justified. I think all in all this script just wasn't for me. I'm sure many others will love it, but the main themes and the genre just weren't my thing.

Hope I helped



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Trojan
Posted: August 11th, 2009, 7:42am Report to Moderator
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Ok I just finished reading this like I said I would. I hate to say it but my initial feelings about the story still hold up after finishing the script. Writing wise it is pretty decent, but you could make it more active and tighten it up a little.

Story wise I found it hard to really get into. I didn't really care for any of the characters, probably Jeremy was the most interesting out of the main characters if I had to pick one. Barry and Hannah came across like these goody-two-shoes mormon types and I found kind of annoying. Like Barry when he is crying. Not the type of attributes you want for a romantic lead in a film.

Diana seemed to change from being dark and moody to bright and upbeat when telling Barry that Hannah still loved him. I didn't buy it. Jeremy says the only thing keeping him from killing people are the laws, but when they have the opportunity to join Sven and change the way things are he doesn't go for it. You talk about all these vampires being really evil but we don't see this until the end. If they were so evil I felt they would have jumped at the chance to fight back against humans.

And this is where I think the multiple genres becomes a problem. It's like there is no clear direction of who the story is about or what you are trying to say. It's pretty confusing. There is a lot of corny/cheesy dialogue in here and it might work for a chick flick on some level. But we're dealing with supposedly evil vampires and it's like WTF is going on here? It wasn't scary or thrilling, there were a couple of mildly amusing lines but I didn't laugh at any point. The characters felt underdeveloped and not relatable, I didn't care what happened to any of them.

Probably the most interesting thing was what I thought would be a big build-up to the climax scene where they try and kill Sven. But you killed him off weakly twenty pages before the end and it felt like a cop-out. Why don't you have him in a showdown with Barry or Hannah?

I didn't get the ending in the hospital either. The sun hits her and they stop talking and then we just fade to black. It didn't end on a high point or with anything being resolved or anything, it just felt very sudden.

Overall I think it's very dialogue heavy, not a lot happening in the way of action on screen. It feels a bit preachy in parts like you are trying to ram a point down our throats. It normally works better if we can draw our own conclusions from the story rather than have it forced upon us. I don't think on the screen it would work too well as there's not enough happening and too much needless dialogue from the characters.

Sorry to be harsh but I think it comes down to what I said originally of going for too many genres and we end up with a diluted version of each of them. I think you're probably a better writer than this story displays and I'd guess that your other scripts would work better than this one.

Cheers,
Tim.
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diasaa
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Quoted Text
I hate to say it but my initial feelings about the story still hold up after finishing the script.


-No surprise there.


Quoted Text
Barry and Hannah came across like these goody-two-shoes mormon types and I found kind of annoying. Like Barry when he is crying. Not the type of attributes you want for a romantic lead in a film.


-Really, you have a problem with him crying? After his girlfriend's death? It's not like there's this long montage where he's eating ice cream and watching sappy chick flicks. He gets emotional when the half naked shell of his dead girlfriend tries to turn him. As far as the goody two-shoes aspect is concerned. It's part of establishing this world of catholicism. It's not like they stay that way either. Would you say that by the end, they are still goody two-shoes? But if you don't like it, you don't like it... there's not a lot I can do about it, as the plot and world kind of center around this fact.


Quoted Text
Diana seemed to change from being dark and moody to bright and upbeat when telling Barry that Hannah still loved him.


- What's wrong with her changing? It's not like it's a huge change anyway. She was always kind of cheery through her sadness. Occasionally she's a little dark and broody, but for the most part, she's usually pretty pleasant. I don't know why this seems so out of character to you.


Quoted Text
Jeremy says the only thing keeping him from killing people are the laws, but when they have the opportunity to join Sven and change the way things are he doesn't go for it.


-Jeremy has maintained that belief for some time, but Diana actually challenges it, and it's proved to be false. That's actually in the script, I'm not just making it up now. Besides that, Jeremy does have a moment where he actually considers Sven's plans, but ultimately decides that it is logically immoral. Keep in mind also, that he's been studying scripture and trying to connect to the divine in a logical way. That's actually in the script too.


Quoted Text
It's like there is no clear direction of who the story is about or what you are trying to say.


-Most of the scenes in the film deal with the Hannah/Barry or the Jeremy/Diana relationships... as such I assumed the focus would be on their parallel relationship stories. As far as what I'm trying to say, there's not really any one message. There's a lot of themes, sure, but no set-in-stone message to the film. Do films need that? Or is it enough to just tell the story, and let the audience draw what they will from it.


Quoted Text
There is a lot of corny/cheesy dialogue in here and it might work for a chick flick on some level.


- Give examples. Does it not fit with the tone of the scenes?


Quoted Text
But we're dealing with supposedly evil vampires and it's like WTF is going on here? It wasn't scary or thrilling, there were a couple of mildly amusing lines but I didn't laugh at any point. The characters felt underdeveloped and not relatable, I didn't care what happened to any of them.


-Actually you're just generalizing for all of this. It's like you're launching a hate grenade and hoping something hits. What useful feedback am I supposed to take from any of these sentences? The most annoying generalization is the bit about the characters being underdeveloped. I truly believe that you wouldn't find these characters so underdeveloped if you just payed a little more attention. Your previous statements seem to indicate that you took the characters at their base levels, and ignored all the scenes and dialogue that gave them more depth. Perhaps this isn't the case, but I'm not sure what else to take from your comments.


Quoted Text
Probably the most interesting thing was what I thought would be a big build-up to the climax scene where they try and kill Sven. But you killed him off weakly twenty pages before the end and it felt like a cop-out. Why don't you have him in a showdown with Barry or Hannah?


-I find it fascinating that you found the most underdeveloped character in this to be the most interesting part. Seriously, if I emphasized the Sven bits and built it up to a showdown at the end, it would just turn the script cliche and boring. I'm trying to write something different than every monster movie out there. I was trying to work with the expectations of creature films to shake you up a bit when it didn't turn out the way every other movie did. The sudden death of Sven serves two functions: 1. to show the futility of a vampire revolution in the face of modern technology and 2. to emphasize the fact that there's a bigger character story here that's more important than the basic good defeats evil cliche. Yes, I know it can be frustrating when the thing you care about doesn't happen, but clearly this is a script for people that can get more into the character stories.


Quoted Text
I didn't get the ending in the hospital either. The sun hits her and they stop talking and then we just fade to black. It didn't end on a high point or with anything being resolved or anything, it just felt very sudden.


-The ending you are referring to, is not in a hospital and does not fade to black, but let me try to explain what I was going for here. (Keep in mind that understanding it would require you to pay attention to the script, so this might be confusing.) Where are Hannah and Barry at in their relationship at this point? Barry has accepted that it might be okay to be in a relationship with a vampire, as many of the things he loved about Hannah seem to be still intact. So briefly he forgets that she's a vampire and kisses her as just Hannah. This feels like things could be normal... until the sun brings back that painful reminder. See the outcome of their relationship is something that can't be resolved in the pages that remain. It's supposed to be a sudden ending. I love sudden endings. It's a big enough story for another movie, which I just might write.


Quoted Text
It feels a bit preachy in parts like you are trying to ram a point down our throats. It normally works better if we can draw our own conclusions from the story rather than have it forced upon us.


See, I feel like the characters are speculating on a lot about faith and belief, but there's no real clear answer.  Earlier you wrote that you don't know what I'm trying to say, but now you're upset that I seem to be shoving a message down your throat and am not letting you draw your own conclusions. Be specific. What do you feel this movie is being preachy about? Even faith which results in good character changes, also results in extremely negative ones... This movie is supposed to be more of an exploration of these issues, and not an answer.


Quoted Text
too much needless dialogue from the characters.


-More generalities. What dialogue is needless? Dialogue should do one of three things: advance the plot, develop the characters, or be funny/entertaining. If at any point the amount of dialogue is taking away from any of those elements, then it's too much. Give me some examples of where this might be happening.


Quoted Text
it comes down to what I said originally of going for too many genres and we end up with a diluted version of each of them.


-This seems to be the thesis of your argument, but you do a really poor job of giving examples to support this thesis. The one paragraph of your review that really seems to deal with this thesis reads like a bored reader who wasn't paying that much attention to begin with. As such, I remain unconvinced of your argument. It seems to me that the only disadvantage of having multiple genres is that I might lose viewers when I'm dealing with a genre they're not quite so into. If that reduces my potential audience, I'm okay with that. There are still plenty of people that are interested in multiple emotions being evoked when watching the film, and I guess that's who its for.


Quoted Text
Sorry to be harsh


-Harshness is fine, but it's counter-productive to be throwing out blanket critiques without giving examples and backing them up. There isn't anything in your review that I can use to improve my script, even if I did think you made a single good point.

Nevertheless, I DO appreciate the script read, and I'd be more than happy to read and review one of your scripts if you'd like. Just let me know which one, and feel free to bash on the manner in which I review it.

-Aaron


The Vampire Revolution - Feature Length Romantic-Comedy-Action-Thriller-Horror

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1249827495/

Life Lessons - Feature Length Dramedy

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-drama/m-1205617443/
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Trojan
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Ok I didn't go into great detail on every point as I don't have a lot of time on my hands and I'm not a professional script reviewer, I gave it a read to see if I thought it could work with all the different genres. But I'll try and explain a few of the things I mentioned.

First off I didn't care for Barry. He seems like a massive dork and I had no positive feelings for him. At the beginning with Hannah we learn that he hasn't even kissed her yet. He thinks they have been dating, and she says they haven't been because he hasn't kissed her. How long have they been together? He is in his mid 20s, not 12. Why on earth hasn't he kissed her yet? This is the guy you are setting up as your romantic lead and he is too scared to kiss his girlfriend. Then he says 'when we first kiss it will be magical...'. It was around here that I was wondering if he secretly is gay. Hannah's response of 'it better make sunlight sparkle and fire dance' is one of the lines I thought was cheesy. Who actually talks like this? I think the dynamic between them is very forced and stilted, it lacks the flirting and humor that a couple would ordinarily have going on between them.

As for them being underdeveloped, I felt like Barry didn't have any clear goals or anything driving him forward. What does he most want? What are his obstacles? Is the only thing he wants Hannah? If so his own ineptitude is getting in his way and this makes him weak and passive. He is not driving the story forward by doing anything, things are simply happening to him that force him to respond. He is a passive character. As for him crying, I wouldn't expect that from a lead in an action or horror movie, doesn't fit. In a romance movie, perhaps. This is one instance where the mixed genres doesn't work IMO, is he an action lead or a romance lead?

Diana I thought was interesting to start off with. I wanted to know more about her. She is dark and has some substance, but the issue with her stepdad is only touched on and not explored in any depth. How did she deal with the situation? How long ago was it? What else did she try before deciding she wanted to become a vampire? I think she changes too much to bright and cheerful after being with Jeremy, and is too eager to have sex with him. That scene should be a little more awkward, where she is having doubts about having sex with a vampire. When a character changes, I think it works best when there are small degrees of change, not a complete reversal. It reads to me like her whole personality changes from dark to bright.

Jeremy, how long has he been a vampire and how did it happen? In a lot of his dialogue he seems like a bit of a smart ass, then when he is talking to Mark it changes and he gives these long monologues. His lines here are a bit too long and a bit cheesy IMO.

In this same scene we learn about Mark through exposition. Hannah is not his real daughter, kind of weakens the emotional bond there. The part where he tells Hannah her real parents were murdered is on the nose, only reason it is there is to convey that information to the reader. Find ways to show Mark's feelings toward vampires rather than just tell us with exposition. In the same scene, "Barry gives a sheepish look at Mark, who appears to be very angry, and then chases after Jeremy". You could rewrite things like this to make it stronger and more visual. Which is better "Mark appears to be very angry" or "Mark is steaming with rage"? You can make your scenes and characters come alive more by writing more visually using stronger descriptive language.

The scene where Sven and Jenkins are talking after Malorie is dead. Sven is on a rant about starting up an army and fighting the humans. It has a bit of dramatic tension here, like the story is moving forward. Then you have gone for a joke with Jenkins asking if they will get paid. The attempted joke is at odds with the emotion in the scene and ruins it, it deflates the anticipation for what might come.

The next scene with Hannah and Barry about to kiss is again showing what a loser Barry is. He says "I'm afraid if we start kissing, it might lead to, you know, more kissing." Man, could he be any more pathetic? I'm sorry but by this point I want him to get killed off. You might be trying to make him 'sweet' but women will not like his weakness and indecisiveness and guys will think he is a giant pussy.

The part where Chuck and John are discussing the Anne Rice novel is good, but in the same scene where Diana and Jeremy meet it's pretty bland. I would have liked to have seen a more interesting way for them to meet other than 'Hi I am Diana/Jeremy...nice to meet you.' It's very generic. Put your own stamp on scenes like this and let your voice stand out.

Sven being killed off early is a problem because he is the antagonist. He is the big bad vampire who is more powerful than all the others but he is killed off around the start of the third act. There is no suspense there of what might happen when the heroes confrot the villains. Even experienced screenwriting teachers will tell you the same, that you must have the confrontation with the antagonist at some point and it must be the hero who confronts them. You have robbed us off that. You justify it by saying you are writing a character story, but you have action and horror in here and you need to pay off your set-ups. This is a major example where mixed genres is a problem, as people wanting to see an action film will be pissed that they watched this far and the bad guy was killed off early and meekly. If you want to write a character story, action and horror are not the genres to do it in.

I felt like all these vampires turned by Sven were evil, but Hannah is still good. She talks about how she feels an evil inside her but it doesn't appear that way. Why is she the only one like that? If she was really killed and tunred then she would have the natural vampire instincts to kill and feed, she still seems the same as before.

I get what you were going for with the ending, it just didn't feel right to me. I think the problem is there is no big climax in the movie, it just sort of decreases in tension throughout the last act. Like I said before I think the main reason is you have killed off Sven too early, there is no sense of imminent danger or that something is going to happen after that.

Anyway that's about all I have to say for now, hope you get something out of these comments this time. At the end of the day it's only my opinion and why I believe it doesn't work, but if other people enjoy it then that's great.

Cheers,
Tim.
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ghost and_ghostie gal
Posted: August 12th, 2009, 2:32am Report to Moderator
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diasaa,

Okay, here we go.  I'm not going to re-hash any of the previous comments.  It is what it is.

When I first read your logline, "Twilight," came to mind.  Look, ghost... haunted houses... snakes scare me but your script didn't.  I'm thinking romantic comedy/action here.
I'm tracking with you, lots of theme's going on.  People can and will be able to relate to all or most of them.  That is a good thing.

Human society has set up alot of checks and balances in order to deal with the vampires.  They have to register, get checked every three days, go to the dentist to have their fangs removed.  Ect.. I get it so far.

The formatting is good for the most part.  I do question a few things.  

Third part of your MASTER SCENE HEADING'S

Page 39 - EXT. MALORIE'S HOUSE - SIMULTANEOUSLY... Why not use CONTINUOUS?
Again
Page 47 - INT. DIANA APARTMENT - SHORTLY AFTER WORDS... Why not just use MOMENTS LATER?

A few of your action lines are too wordy.  Confusing at times. I'd split some of them up.  Example...

Page 22... the fight scene with Hannah, Barry and the vampires.

The crosses are pressed into their faces, burning them fiercely and stunning the vampires.  A fight ensues, the couple gaining the upper hand as they pull out stakes and holy water to help in the fight.  Sven watches unseen from a distance.
                                    SVEN
                             Apparently they weren't ready. Hmm...

Is Sven in this scene or not?  Is he in the b.g. we can see him but Hannah and Barry can't or No one can see him as he watches.  They way you have it wrote, I take it he's actually in the scene because their is no (O.S.) next to his name.

Why the couple?  Why not Hannah and Barry? Or our couple.

If it were me...

A fight ensues.  Barry and Hannah gain the upper hand as they pull out stakes and holy water.  Sven watches  from a distance.

I'd take out, to help them in the fight because it's already obvious too us.

Then your following action line,

As the fight continuous, Hannah drives a stake into Malorie.  She dissolves into ash as Jenkins pins Barry to the ground.  It is not long before Jenkins also disappears into ash, Hannah standing above him.

We know their still fighting.  Why not just take it out as the fight continues?

Oh, why right after this fight scene, you finally had Barry and Hannah makeout?

Page 47...

Diana opens the door to Jeremy.  Her place has a sort of cliched goth look to it.  She smiles when she sees Jeremy.

How about this...

Diana opens the door, smiles at  Jeremy.  Her place has sort of a cliched goth look to it.

I liked the relationship between Jeremy and Diana.  When they met at the (AA/blood) meeting. That's how I took it.  How fitting at the meeting, you managed to throw in Anne Rice and "TWILIGHT."  I thought it was a nice touch.

The scene at the store searching for the Dolphin blood, despite that one line...  

                                            Diana
                                      Dolphin blood it is.

                                            Jeremy
                                      Don't worry, it's tuna safe.

It was funny but I must tell you, I had to shake my head.

I'm only at page 53 right now. I do agree, you need to tighten up some of the actions lines.  It's entertaining, I'll give you that.

Ghostwriter 22



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ghost and_ghostie gal  -  August 12th, 2009, 3:09am
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diasaa
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Ghost - Thanks for saying something nice about my script. I totally agree about my action scenes. This script was actually the first time I've ever written any kind of action and my writing always felt much weaker when I had to deal with that. Your examples are very helpful and I'll try to work on that in the new draft. I'll address some of your other points when you finish reading.

Trojan - Oh boy I don't think we're ever going to agree on some things. Most of all you just seem to want a different movie than what I'm trying to write. I'll respect that and accept that you're just not one of my audience members. At any rate, at least you backed up your arguments this time, which gives me something to work with.


Quoted Text
At the beginning with Hannah we learn that he hasn't even kissed her yet.


-Look, like I said before, all the chastity in this script is rooted in the world. Catholicism is HUGE in this world! Priests are consulted by police to help with their arrests. People believe almost absolutely in God, and that He wants them to be sexually pure. They've been taking it slow because they want to please God. This is a normal concept in Christian faiths, and for me to change the characters to appease your desires would require changing the world. It would change the whole concept of the movie. So like I say, deal with that, or walk out!


Quoted Text
I felt like Barry didn't have any clear goals or anything driving him forward. What does he most want? What are his obstacles? Is the only thing he wants Hannah? If so his own ineptitude is getting in his way and this makes him weak and passive. He is not driving the story forward by doing anything, things are simply happening to him that force him to respond. He is a passive character.


-Barry, right from the getgo is taking action. Clearly he is an advocate for vampire rights, living with a vampire and trying to introduce him to his Sunday School class. Hopefully you get the sense that he's working within the church to attempt to change attitudes. Yes, things happen to him. It makes him questions his beliefs about vampires and he spends a good time in the script in indecisive mode, until the end, when he decides to fight for Hannah, whether she's a vampire or not. To say he's a weak character because he has to question his beliefs is unfair. Again, it seems like you want something completely different this script. When he resolves this questioning of his beliefs... to still think he's weak when he's holding a gun on his highly respected church elders is completely ignoring everything established about him.


Quoted Text
This is one instance where the mixed genres doesn't work IMO, is he an action lead or a romance lead?


-Look, I'm sick and tired of talking about genre with you. It seems like there are genre movies that have characters, and then there's character movies that have genre. You want the former, I want the latter. Take for example, another vampire movie Let the Right One In. It's a character movie that uses genre to bend and shape the people in it. It has almost no action, but it does use it. Nobody is begrudging LTROI for not having enough action. The Vampire Revolution is just one of a thousand movies that focus first on the characters, and use the elements of the genre to change and bend them... if you don't like it, then you're not my audience. I'm not going to turn this movie into any one or two genres. Doing so would kill its characters.


Quoted Text
Diana I thought was interesting to start off with. I wanted to know more about her. She is dark and has some substance, but the issue with her stepdad is only touched on and not explored in any depth. How did she deal with the situation? How long ago was it? What else did she try before deciding she wanted to become a vampire? I think she changes too much to bright and cheerful after being with Jeremy, and is too eager to have sex with him. That scene should be a little more awkward, where she is having doubts about having sex with a vampire. When a character changes, I think it works best when there are small degrees of change, not a complete reversal. It reads to me like her whole personality changes from dark to bright.


-You don't understand Diana at all. She has a lot of pain underneath, but creates a wall where she's generally pretty pleasant. You see her, in every scene she's in, acting somewhat pleasant/curious. She rushes into sex because to her, and to a lot of people that have been abused, sex becomes sort of meaningless. Afterwards she has that moment where she breaks down because she actually finds she care about Jeremy... and it's awakening something in her. For some reason you think her being pleasant in the end is a complete reversal, but do you ever... EVER see her being unpleasant to people?

Why isn't every detail of her history explored? Because we know enough to understand why she takes the actions she does. Yes, I can explore more, but I'm trying to keep this short and to the point. If I did go into all that, you wouldn't like it either. The issues she deals with are big enough that they are worthy of another movie. Ideally this movie would work as the pilot of a TV show, and I could explore the characters a lot more with every episode, but as it stands, I do have to put some limits on how deep this film goes into their backstories.


Quoted Text
Jeremy, how long has he been a vampire and how did it happen?


-That's not important for this story. Adding in useless information will only add to the run time. You know that he's older than the regisration laws, which is all you need to know. How he turned is also not important. It's possible I'll explore this information in the sequel, but only if it's relevant to the story.


Quoted Text
In a lot of his dialogue he seems like a bit of a smart A**, then when he is talking to Mark it changes and he gives these long monologues. His lines here are a bit too long and a bit cheesy IMO.


-This is the same lame critique that Tommy gave. Barry is his friend. He's sarcastic with his friend. Mark is someone he's trying to impress. Of course he's going to act different around him.


Quoted Text
Hannah is not his real daughter, kind of weakens the emotional bond there.


-You think that adopted fathers have weaker bonds than real ones? That's kind of a cruel thing to say.



The Vampire Revolution - Feature Length Romantic-Comedy-Action-Thriller-Horror

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1249827495/

Life Lessons - Feature Length Dramedy

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-drama/m-1205617443/
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diasaa
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Quoted Text
The part where he tells Hannah her real parents were murdered is on the nose, only reason it is there is to convey that information to the reader.


-The exposition was a necessary evil to keep the run time shorter. This could be done with a flashback or something else, but ultimately Mark doesn't get a lot of screentime and I didn't want to lengthen the movie with Mark scenes when it's not really about him.


Quoted Text
The scene where Sven and Jenkins are talking after Malorie is dead. Sven is on a rant about starting up an army and fighting the humans. It has a bit of dramatic tension here, like the story is moving forward. Then you have gone for a joke with Jenkins asking if they will get paid. The attempted joke is at odds with the emotion in the scene and ruins it, it deflates the anticipation for what might come.


-That scene is comedic. Yes, the entire scene. Sven is nothing but over-the-top and even his plan is over-the-top. It's a clash of context scene to establish Sven's ridiculousness in a modern world that doesn't work for him. Here's another example of you wanting a movie that's completely different. You want to take Sven seriously, I want to show him for what he is.


Quoted Text
I would have liked to have seen a more interesting way for them to meet other than 'Hi I am Diana/Jeremy...nice to meet you.'


-No, what's generic is the Meet Cute, (that fun-special-cute way that two characters meet) which seems to be what you're asking for here. Their meeting is the anti-meet-cute. I'm sensing a theme here. It's starting to look like every suggestion your giving me will make the movie more generic.


Quoted Text
Even experienced screenwriting teachers will tell you the same, that you must have the confrontation with the antagonist at some point and it must be the hero who confronts them. You have robbed us off that. You justify it by saying you are writing a character story, but you have action and horror in here and you need to pay off your set-ups.


-Call up the Cohen Brothers and tell them that they need a new draft for No Country for Old Men.


Quoted Text
I felt like all these vampires turned by Sven were evil, but Hannah is still good. She talks about how she feels an evil inside her but it doesn't appear that way. Why is she the only one like that?


-I've been over this. It's explained in the script. Reread it if you need to.


Quoted Text
I think the problem is there is no big climax in the movie, it just sort of decreases in tension throughout the last act. Like I said before I think the main reason is you have killed off Sven too early, there is no sense of imminent danger or that something is going to happen after that.


-Mark is the real villian, if there is one. He's the one that we get the showdown with. There is a climax, you just don't think so because you think that Sven is the guy we're supposed to care about.

It's painfully obvious to me that nothing useful is going to come from further discussion between us because you want this to be a different movie than I do. I want reviews and suggestions for improving the movie that I have going, not the movie that you want to see. (Which by the way, sounds really generic and by the books.) I ask that unless you have something truly relevant to add, please stop posting here, as it takes a long time for me to respond to these and I have better things to do with my time than debate genre with you. I'm not trying to be mean, I just don't think that further discussion will yield anything useful, and thus be a waste of both of our times.

-Aaron


The Vampire Revolution - Feature Length Romantic-Comedy-Action-Thriller-Horror

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1249827495/

Life Lessons - Feature Length Dramedy

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-drama/m-1205617443/
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Trojan
Posted: August 13th, 2009, 12:29am Report to Moderator
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Okay I'm not sure what type of critique you are looking for here. I've provided some points where I think it can be improved and you are being overly defensive and critical of the comments. Do you want honest feedback or do you just want to hear how awesome your script is? If you want pure, unadulterated praise get your mum to read it. This is a writer's forum and as such you are going to get negative criticism, it is the nature of the beast. If you don't want to hear this sort of feedback then you might want to rethink whether or not it's a good idea to post scripts on here.

Forget about the genre arguments. I've posted detailed feedback that is relevant to the STORY and CHARACTERS. And having gone back and read Tommy's post he actually made a lot of the same points that I did. You were very defensive on those points as well and have resorted to calling his comments and my own 'lame'. It will serve you well to develop a thicker skin if you want to be a writer.

You have justified the fact that there is not a lot of action or comedy or horror by saying that you want it to be a character piece. That's fine. But if that's the case you need to develop the characters more and make us care about them. I said I wanted to know more about Diana and you said it isn't important. I said I wanted to know more about Jeremy and you said it isn't important. Well I'm telling you that it IS important, to me, the reader. It's arrogant to say that a reader/vieweres opinions of the story and wanting to know the characters are not important.

You said that you want to keep it short and not go into more depth, but with all the dialogue this would only run at about 90mins. So why not take the time and flesh them out more, another few pages will not hurt the story. If we don't care for the characters then you could have the best story but it wouldn't matter a bit. Both Tommy and I said we hated Barry and wish he died. I hadn't even read his comments when I said that. So of the two people who have read your whole script that's two people who hate your main character. Instead of getting defensive about that take a note of it and look at why that might be. You posted this wanting feedback, and you are getting it man. If different people say the same things then it is worth listening to.

The scene with Mark where we get the on the nose dialogue is not good. You defend it by saying it is necessary but really it is just lazy writing. There is always a better way to show something than with exposition. You say that he is an unimportant character but then also say he is the main bad guy in the climax at the end. If you want this to be a character story you have to make your characters three-dimensional and devote some time to them. You can argue that the on the nose dialogue is justified but sorry it just doesn't hold up.

In the same scene where Jeremy is talking to him if you want him to talk differently that's your call, it just goes on for a bit too long. From memory there are about ten lines straight of him talking, it would benefit from an edit.

As for this being a good story for a TV series, if that's the route you want to go then you should write it as one. As it is, this is a feature film script and that's why I am judging it as such. It's not good enough to say that underdeveloped characters will be explored in a sequel, or in a TV series if there was one. A feature is a fully self-contained story and we should know about the characters during that story, not in some imaginary sequel. Again, this is not me talking about genre or anything like that. It is about characters, in what you wish to be a character story.

I would suggest that Barry can still be Catholic and not having sex with Hannah, but he could be more masculine and confident. I know tonnes of Catholic people and really kissing is not a big deal. The fact that he treats a kiss as such a big deal does not make him appealing to men or women. And the dialogue that I mentioned between them at that point is cheesy with the sun sparkling etc. They are points I mentioned which are very relevant to the story and you seem to have dismissed them as being useless.

Similarly, the point I made about your writing and how it could benefit from being more descriptive and visual? Is that another worthless point because your writing is perfect, or can you take something from that? Most of the points I made I believe are relevant and would benefit your story but you don't seem to want to hear them.

Anyway I have stayed away from genre and instead focused on the elements within the story. If you still feel that there is nothing to be gained from my points, then I am unsure of what sort of feedback you hope to get on how you can improve the script.
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diasaa
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In my discussion with you so far, I demonstrated two things: 1. You ignored many aspects of the world and characters to make your points. 2. You seem to want a different movie than the one I'm going for. These two points have shown that you really aren't that interested in the actual material. After all, you only read the thing so that you could continue your genre argument from the other thread.

As such, how am I supposed to take any comment you make about the characters or story seriously? I want feedback, in fact, I want harsh feedback... but I want it related to the story I'm trying to tell. You seem to want a generic good vs. bad tale which adheres to all the basic dogmas of a screenwriting workshop. But I hesitate to say that, because it seems that moreso, you want to be right.

Perhaps I'm wrong to dismiss ALL of your points, but considering the source, it's difficult not to. You've been antagonistic from the beginning when I first posted in the script exchange, and considering how much of your points were based off a fundamental misunderstanding of the material, it's very hard to see it as anything but you trying to randomly bash it. The fact is, even if I took ALL your advice, and changed everything you said, you would still bash the script. If I included every detail about the characters that you've requested, you would call if fluff and boring. You've said nothing so far to indicate otherwise. As such, what good what it do to listen to any point you make? I want critique from people that understand, and have an active interest in helping to improve the material. That sir, is not you.

Tommy shared some of the same misunderstandings... you both missed so many important details that it almost feels like you just skimmed through the script so that you could get to your innate desire for bashing a little faster. Tommy, at least put on some guise of caring about the actual improvement.

I think what annoys me more than anything else, is that you put me in a position where I have to constantly correct you, then you call me overly-defensive and thin-skinned when I do. You pick and choose the few things I didn't respond to, get mad at me for ignoring those, but simultaneously completely fail to address most of the points I make. Clearly you're only trying to be right... and this is evident because of your ignoral of every point where I've proven you absolutely wrong. Instead, you focus on the stuff where you feel you can get me.

This forum has a reputation of asshole writers who are just trying to take every other writer down a peg. You're not helping break that reputation. I've given you fair chance to show yourself to be otherwise, but you've so far not done so. As such, I asked you to stop posting so that I wouldn't have to waste hours of my life responding to someone that doesn't really want to help in the first place. You've ignored that request. Why? Because you want to be right.

And here I am, wasting another hour writing this. Now I'm asking again, please don't continue to post in this forum. I'm sure you think this request is me being overly-defensive and thin-skinned. I would rather you think that than spend another second responding to you.

-Aaron


The Vampire Revolution - Feature Length Romantic-Comedy-Action-Thriller-Horror

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1249827495/

Life Lessons - Feature Length Dramedy

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-drama/m-1205617443/
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Trojan
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What would you consider to be constructive criticism or harsh feedback that would help you make your story better? That's what I have tried to give but you obviously disagree and think I am bashing it for the hell of it. So give me an actual example of the type of criticism you would consider helpful.

Trust me, the things I am saying are what you would hear from a lot of other people and a professional script reviewer would be even harsher. If you really want to have it ripped to shreds then have Dreamscale or Baltis give it a read.

And to say that this forum has a reputation for asshole writers  is an insult to everyone on here and I have to question your motives for being on here if that is the case. Dude,  I am trying to help. As was Tommy. You seem to think we have this vendetta against you or something. Either take the advice or don't, but when you post a script and ask for feedback you need to be prepared for what you will hear.

So please tell me what type of feedback you are wanting to hear and give an example so people can post something that will help you and not have it blow up into a big argument.
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