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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Discussion of...     General Chat  ›  Was the joker guilty for the death of Ledger? Moderators: bert
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  Author    Was the joker guilty for the death of Ledger?  (currently 2150 views)
Helio
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 6:15am Report to Moderator
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Hi guys, this question has hitting my thoughts these days when The Dark Knight is released on the theaters. What do think about?


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Helio  -  July 18th, 2008, 10:15am
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dogglebe
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 6:39am Report to Moderator
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His death was ruled an accidental overdose, so I can't see why (it might be different if it was suicide, however).  Keep in mind, also, that his death created the buzz about the movie.  He's been in the spotlight more since he died than while he was alive.


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Michael Myers
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 6:45am Report to Moderator
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I thought I read that he was taking the pills so he could be The Joker. I think, I might be getting it mixed with something else.
But yeah. It is very sad. He was just getting noticed a lot more and yeah, the death of Heath will be forever remembered in my mind as one of the greatest young actors.
Same thing happened to River Phoenix. Also, the same thing happened to James Dean. Something tragic happens like this in every movie generation.


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Takeshi
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 6:58am Report to Moderator
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Given the fact that Heath Ledger protested against the war in Iraq and the greed of the oil companies, the only possible conclusion that I can come to is that the CIA murdered him. His "suspicious" death is very similar to that of Marilyn Monroe and as you'll recall she........Hang on the medication trolley has arrived. I'll finish this later.
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Higgonaitor
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 7:22am Report to Moderator
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Nope.  People saw him chipper as can b skate boarding around the city, so I really doubt he was "way to into the depths of the sadness of the joker and just couldn't take it."

Although he did give a stellar performance.  Everyone should go see it RIGHT NOW..


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NiK
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 7:23am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Takeshi
Given the fact that Heath Ledger protested against the war in Iraq and the greed of the oil companies, the only possible conclusion that I can come to is that the CIA murdered him. His "suspicious" death is very similar to that of Marilyn Monroe and as you'll recall she........Hang on the medication trolley has arrived. I'll finish this later.


I hope you're kidding right?

I dont believe that. Its absurd. He just mixed the pills guys. everyone has those nights that can't sleep and he exaggerated.

May his soul REST IN PEACE.



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Helio
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 7:40am Report to Moderator
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In my poor opinion I think he gets involved to much with the role. Maybe he wanted take a lot of this psychopath character. I have my doubts about and I don’t believe in CIA conspiracy.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 7:44am Report to Moderator
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That's the danger of joking in text only.
Some people take it seriously.


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Helio
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 8:31am Report to Moderator
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Maybe my question should be wansered by Cesar Romero and Jack Nicholson, that played the Joker. Unfortunatly, Mr. Romero dies in 1994 and I never heard him talking about this character.
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dogglebe
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 9:02am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Michael Myers
But yeah. It is very sad. He was just getting noticed a lot more and yeah, the death of Heath will be forever remembered in my mind as one of the greatest young actors.


He was just getting noticed?  He was nominated for an Academy Award a few years back, and won/was nominated for a dozen other acting awards.




Quoted from Helio
Maybe my question should be wansered by Cesar Romero and Jack Nicholson, that played the Joker. Unfortunatly, Mr. Romero dies in 1994 and I never heard him talking about this character.


Alright Cesar Romero's death was definitely linked to the CIA!!

I remember an interview with him talking about the Joker (I think it was when 'Batman' came out.  He enjoyed playing the character but said his version couldn't be compared to Nicholson's version.  The Romero version was just a cartoony character.


Phil

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Helio
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 9:26am Report to Moderator
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I agree, Phil, but Mr Nicholson's joker was great, mainly because he played other  controversial character like Jack Torrance in Kubrick's The Shining and maybe Ledger wanted overcome Mr. Nicholson's Joker.
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Michael Myers
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 11:22am Report to Moderator
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He was getting a lot more well known than he was. I understand that he was already a pretty big actor, with The Brothers Grimm and Brokeback Mountain. I may just be thinking, due to the hype of his death and The Dark Knight, he was getting a little more attention than in his other movies.
You didn't hear people going "Oh, it's Heath in The Brothers Grimm!" Now that The Dark Knight is now playing, Heath opened up to a larger audience with Batman.


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Higgonaitor
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Quoted from Helio
In my poor opinion I think he gets involved to much with the role. Maybe he wanted take a lot of this psychopath character. I have my doubts about and I don’t believe in CIA conspiracy.


Honestly, the character isn't THAT crazy.  It's actually kind of really annoying to me that people are saying he killed himself because of the joker, when he most likely didn't even mean to kill himself.  

All this hype that heath killed himself because he was so absorbed in the role of the joker is simply tying an absolutely tragic event to a completely unrelated one so that more people go see some movie. (Even if it was fantastic).  (Except for Christian Bale who I think absolutely blows.)


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Helio
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 12:40pm Report to Moderator
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Maybe the frase I did at the Joker's avatar above " I killed Ledger" was  " I killed Ledger to make him to live for ever!"
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NiK
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 1:56pm Report to Moderator
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I found this article on the net some months ago, Jack Nicholson speaks about Ledger's death and what may have caused it, and about the Joker.



Quoted from Daily News
Heath Ledger thought landing the demanding role of the Joker was a dream come true - but now some think it was a nightmare that led to his tragic death.

Jack Nicholson, who played the Joker in 1989 - and who was furious he wasn't consulted about the creepy role - offered a cryptic comment when told Ledger was dead.

"Well," Nicholson told reporters in London early Wednesday, "I warned him."

Though the remark was ambiguous, there's no question the role in the movie earmarked as this summer's blockbuster took a frightening toll.

Ledger recently told reporters he "slept an average of two hours a night" while playing "a psychopathic, mass-murdering, schizophrenic clown with zero empathy ...

"I couldn't stop thinking. My body was exhausted, and my mind was still going."

Prescription drugs didn't help, he said.

Ledger's ghastly image as the Clown Prince of Crime in "Dark Knight" has been an Internet sensation since trailers were released in December, featuring Ledger in full death's-head mode.

His face chalk-white, his hair green and his mouth a sliced red grimace, the handsome 28-year-old Australian actor looked frighteningly true to the character in the Alan Moore graphic novel, "Batman: The Killing Joke."

The movie wrapped filming in the fall - right after Ledger's breakup with actress Michelle Williams - and post-production work finished not long after.

While "Dark Knight" is the film that will stand as Ledger's cinematic gravestone, insiders say the flick, set for a July 18 release with Christian Bale as Batman, won't suffer from his death.

"Ledger's portrayal of the Joker is already one of the most anticipated screen characters of the whole year," says Gitesh Pandya, editor of the movie tracking site boxofficeguru.com

"I think most of the audience will still be there. If anything, I would think the marketing of his character might be scaled down a bit.

"The Joker is a character where you could go over-the-top with marketing. The studio might scale that back a bit in the next few months, just to be respectful."

Tony Timpone, editor of the fantasy magazine Fangoria, said the movie should do well, despite the "cloud over it" from Ledger's death.

"It's going to be tough, because the Joker is such an indelible character, and Heath was such an indelible actor. It could be tough to disassociate ourselves from reality. Because the movie looks like it's going to be so dark, and his life had such a dark end."

Critic and film historian Leonard Maltin said Ledger's death will heighten curiosity about the movie - and certainly won't hurt the box office.

"This is sad and so different from any previous examples, because the film has such an enormous built-in audience; people will go anyway, but there's no question it could cast something of a pall over the film," Maltin said.

"It says something about the curious nature of film, that someone can be so alive onscreen when we're all too aware that they've passed. It underscores how we're mortal, and films are immortal."





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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 8:05pm Report to Moderator
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Thank you Nik for sharing this news about Jack Nicholson's comment. It might be true the Heath was pushing himself, but on the other hand:

It does however sound too coincidental-- always the convenient overdose story.

I don't know. Who knows. Nothing ever seems to make sense anyways-- like the healthy teenage girl who recently died in her sleep for no reason that they can determine, and the healthy young hockey player who died of a heart attack.

The public is always wondering about this kind of thing, but it's so hard for the close friends. They probably turn off all forms of media for awhile because they can't stand it anymore.

Sandra




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Takeshi
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 8:10pm Report to Moderator
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Good point, Sandra. Imagine being one of Heath's family members at the moment, having to see his image splashed all over the place. To many of us his death might seem like old news but to his family and friends it has been less than year since he died, so they'd still be very upset about it.    
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dogglebe
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 8:23pm Report to Moderator
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Why would Nicholson be consulted?  He played the role fifteen--twenty years ago.  He's not an expert on the character.


Phil
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Helio
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 8:56pm Report to Moderator
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I’m sorry, but Heath Ledger is not a simple family person anymore, his is now an icon of a world named entertainment.
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Takeshi
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 9:12pm Report to Moderator
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Not to his family, Helio. But I know what you mean.
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James McClung
Posted: July 18th, 2008, 9:36pm Report to Moderator
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I thought this was cleared up already. Ledger was taking prescription pills because his role as the Joker affected him psychologically. An accidental mixture of pills was what caused his death. His actual death had nothing to do with the role but he wouldn't have been taking the pills if he hadn't been playing the Joker. The answer is basically yes and no. That's what I've understood so far anyway.


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NiK
Posted: July 19th, 2008, 2:58am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe
Why would Nicholson be consulted?  He played the role fifteen--twenty years ago.  He's not an expert on the character.


Phil


You're right Phil,

Nicholson had expressed his thoughts about the Joker role even before, i think at an MTV interview...  here:


Quoted from .MTV
MTV: What do you think of another actor, Heath Ledger, playing the Joker in next summer's "The Dark Knight"?

Nicholson: Let me be the way I'm not in interviews. I'm furious. I'm furious. [He laughs.] They never asked me about a sequel with the Joker. I know how to do that! Nobody ever asked me.

MTV: It was never brought up?

Nicholson: No. It's like, in any area, you can't believe the reasons things do or don't happen. Not asking me how to do the sequel is that kind of thing. Maybe it's not a mistake. Maybe it was the right thing, but to be candid, I'm furious.

MTV: I'm surprised to hear you sounding competitive about a role like that.

Nicholson: Well, the Joker comes from my childhood. That's how I got involved with it in the first place. It's a part I always thought I should play.



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Helio
Posted: July 19th, 2008, 9:26am Report to Moderator
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Will any actor wants to play Joker again afater Ledger performance in the future or did joker die with Ledger?
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Mr.Ripley
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The Joker role won't stop prospective actors going to it as much as a remake won't stop being made. They still made the remake of a Excorist film after, according to documentaries, they knew of some of sort of curse surrouding it. Even when the curse was taking affect on the remake, the Excorist film continued being made.  

Heath had set a high bar for actors to overcome in his performance as Joker. Expect alot of competitors.  

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Helio
Posted: July 22nd, 2008, 4:44pm Report to Moderator
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Hey fellas, is true that Mr Bale was arrasted because he beat his mom and daughter? Oh, my god, a curse is coming to Batman`s people!
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Old Time Wesley
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,388124,00.html

Found this and it looks like it but they are just allegations.


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James McClung
Posted: July 22nd, 2008, 6:16pm Report to Moderator
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LOL at Nicholson being pissed about them making another Batman without him as the Joker? Kinda hard to take him seriously. The first one was made twenty years ago. He's fucking decrepit now.

I also hope the allegations against Bale are untrue. Otherwise, I'd lose major respect for the guy.


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dogglebe
Posted: July 22nd, 2008, 8:35pm Report to Moderator
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Nicholson may be old (okay, he is), but I never thought that age should be a deciding factor when it comes to villains.  If Frank Gorshin was still alive, I'd say he'd make the best Riddler.  He wouldn't be duking it out with Batman, but that's not the job of the crime boss.


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Shelton
Posted: July 22nd, 2008, 8:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe
If Frank Gorshin was still alive, I'd say he'd make the best Riddler.


Which is why they should go with his "sort of" doppelganger, Toby Huss.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0403947/


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James McClung
Posted: July 22nd, 2008, 8:45pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe
If Frank Gorshin was still alive, I'd say he'd make the best Riddler.  He wouldn't be duking it out with Batman, but that's not the job of the crime boss.


Perhaps. But the Joker does duke it out with Batman. I would hate to see Nicholson break a hip. He looks like he's still got a couple of good roles left in him.


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Takeshi
Posted: July 22nd, 2008, 8:47pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from James McClung

I also hope the allegations against Bale are untrue. Otherwise, I'd lose major respect for the guy.


The papers will probably start referring to him as Christian Bail. LOL.
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James McClung
Posted: July 22nd, 2008, 8:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Takeshi


The papers will probably start referring to him as Christian Bail. LOL.




Sorry. That's good.


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