So, the pressing question to my fellow Brits, and anyone familiar with our politics: What are yours views on his appearance on 'Question Time' tonight?

I am mixed - his policies, his rhetoric and his party are abhorrent to me. They represent a racism that many seem unable to shake - I mean, do we really care about the colour of skin today, after all that has gone before us - baffling. However, ignoring these views and failing to see the hypocrisy of many 'liberals' who are happy for racial equality, but if that involves another colour entering the family, forget about, is folly. Some Brits have voted for his party, and rather than burying our heads in the sand about it, we need a public discourse that tackles our differences, and attempts to reconcile them. What's the alternative? Allow the party to foment hatred against Brits who don't happen to be white. This kind of behaviour cannot remain unchecked - those who say, well, why give these people a platform to preach and influence others? What? If we have a number of Brits who latently feel this way, we need to tackle the issue, 'cos it will not go away by wishing it away. Ignoring it and hoping it will eventually dissipate naturally, well, those people need a reality check.

We're the United Kingdom, and we are about unity, tolerance and understanding, surely - we're not about "British values" that reward 'indigenous peoples' only, but all British peoples who make us the country we are, right?

Also, can we distinguish between his racist views, and some common sense views re: crime and subsequent punishment he espouses? I mean, I do not subscribe that 'dealers of hard drugs' should be shot, but why are we so soft on crime? Why do we allow weak punishment in the name of 'rehabilitation' to consistently demonstrate detriment to us all? Nobody is arguing that rehabilitation is of no use, but rather that criminal acts must receive suitable punishment. Is this clever vote-baiting from Griffin, or what, what is it? If the man speaks a truth outside his racism, can we not be big enough to see the sense in it? Sure, I consider him a village idiot, but does that make him incapable of making a point - and while I agree with the media representation of him, can we no longer report objectively? Where does that lead us as a society? What happened to an impartial media that presents us issues that we decide on?

Final point, what is with the fanatical protesters? Protesting is fine, but it must be ordered, and focused. The BBC protesting lot are hardly MLK, are they. If ever there was a way to give an ounce of credibility to Griffin's perceived cause, then it is a bunch of rowdy and reckless and yes, intolerant protesters. If we pivot our tolerance on accepting others' views, then what message do we send out if we cannot tolerate those who do not speak in accordance to our own - how does that make us any different from the BNP?

Andrew

Wow! Didn't expect this subject to come up on SS.

However, you asked for oppinions so here goes.

Yes Nick Griffin does have a right to appear on the BBC. Freedom of speech, no matter how misguided, still has a right to be heard.

Oh yeah, Malcolm, we debate stuff - I started a thread about Gary MacKinnon a while back, and something on the European elections, too...this feels like an extension of that, really, since that's when the BNP broke onto the scene.

I'm torn on Nick Griffin's appearance on Question Time. Yes, freedom of speech is fundamentally important, and yes, they have two seats on the European Parliament so they are, to all extents and purposes, a 'real party'. There's also the argument that if you treat them as adults, if you refuse to allow them to continue to portray themselves as plucky outlaws by bringing them into the public arena and exposing their true colours through honest, mature debate, then you nullify their threat. 'Giving them enough rope to hang themselves by', if you like.

But even so...by putting Griffin on the same panel as Jack Straw and the Lib Dems, I do wonder if the BBC aren't 'normalising' them to a certain extent, making them seem acceptable (which, personally, I don't think they are). His views ARE divisive, they DO encourage racial tension. Branding non-whites as different, inferior and undeserving of a place in Britain isn't 'standing up to our PC society', it's something worse than that, something darker.

Should he be on Question Time? Probably. The man has a right to put his views across, and hopefully when I watch it later he'll have been exposed as the laughable politician he is. There's no getting away from the fact that in some areas of the UK, white people do feel under siege from immigrants (which usually isn't the case, but it's naive to think you can simply tell them they're wrong). There may be problems that need addressing, but lurching to the far-right isn't the solution. So...let him on Question Time, and perhaps he'll make such a fool of himself that we can all finally stop talking about the BNP and start a more practical debate - how to sort out the problems the BNP feeds off.

Well, we are either a democracy, or we aren't - we can't say that on the one hand, we allow a party like the BNP, but on the other they aren't allowed to have their say. At the Euro elections, there were calls for the party to be banned from broadcasts on tv and the like.

Not letting them speak will only give them ammunition with which to claim that they are the ones speaking the truth that the Government and main parties don't want us to hear - and seeing the rabble that are trying to storm the BBC to stop the programme is also likely to get them a few votes!

The fact is that the UK has an enormous number of social problems that need to be dealt with - and neither of the main parties have shown any real inclination to do what is needed - drastic action instead of words. Not surprisingly, and as with the NSDAP, people are going to start looking for a party that says it will act rather than talk, and which presents them with easy scapegoats.

I really believe that, given the morally bankrupt Government and Opposition we now have in the UK, parties like the BNP are likely to be heading towards the electoral breakthrough that they have always dreamed of. And when that day comes, God help us all, regardless of the colour of our skin.

(Btw, I have always found it ironic that the BNP is the only political party in Britian that believes that the native British languages of Welsh and Gaelic should be taught in schools throughout the UK - when they struggle at present to be taught in the countries of their origin. Nick Griffin's children are both Welsh speakers)

Here's a thing about that, though: no-one's banning Nick Griffin from speaking. He isn't in prison, no-one's cut out his tongue. He doesn't have to be on the BBC's flagship political programme in order to fulfil his basic human rights.

I do think he should be allowed on, but I don't agree that not letting him on would be a denial of human rights, as some have said. They can have their say, just not on TV! We have the right to freedom of speech, but not the right to equal media coverage.

They do have the right to equal tv coverage though, by law and by the BBC's own rules - otherwise, what is to stop the BBC banning Liberals or Plaid Cymru (the Welsh National Party for those outside the UK). There is a requirement of all tv stations to present even handed coverage of political events.

I'll be brief. I've thrown eggs at the BNP. And I'd do it again. In fact, out of my nature, I'd put those racist bastards against a wall and shoot them. And trrust me, that is out of my nature. These fuckers are as sly as foxes. He was doing well on Question Time on the Beeb tonight, but he's still a racist cunt.

Pardon my language. But I can't be doing with that. We did fight world war two not so long ago didn't we? Fuck 'em.

Let's be honest about this. What are we talking about when we use the word racism.
Most Brits will tell you they don't give a damn about who's black and who's white.

The real debate here, is about the average guy in the street  beginning to feel that they have become a minority citizen in their own country. We've become so used to  surporting the underdog, that somewhere along the line, we became one. many people have become disillusioned with the great multi racial experiment, that is the UK.

By the way, before anyone vilifies me for this statement, I would point out that 4 members of my own family are Afro-Caribbean in origin and 2 have fought for this country and I can assure you, they are as worried as everyone else.

A lot of people outside the UK may not understand what's going on here. I'm not sure I completely understand it myself.

"A lot of people outside the UK may not understand what's going on here. I'm not sure I completely understand it myself."

I know this. For evil to thrive it takes good men to stand by. I won't stand by. Elected or not, Nick Griffin' card is marked and he'll get what's coming. By usual standards it'll be mild. But, he'll know there's folks out here who've got it in for him, and that's all that matters. I cannot believe the fucking BNP exist in this day and age. Fuck me.

A few good point raised already, I just wanted to add my thoughts.

On the subject of the BNP as a whole then I am certainly with the majority here, there should be no place for a political party based on hate in this day and age. I would be appalled if anyone I consider to be a friend would support such policies.

But in response to Rendevous, yes we did fight wars against facist regimes and to defend the freedoms we have today. I think anyone who died fighting for their country in the Second World War would be appalled by any suggestion of stopping anybody expressing their views, no matter how distasteful. This is the price we all pay for freedom, it does mean we have to listen to things we object to.

The BNP are a political party, there are many people in the UK who have voted for them. Therefore, as a publicly funded broadcaster, the BBC has an obligation to allow the BNP to partake in Question Time. It would be wholly wrong to not allow Nick Griffin have his say. It is interesting to note that the protesters who were trying to get his appearance on the show stopped were doing it in the name of anti-fascism - One would have thought that denying a democratically elected party a  forum is the behavior of fascists.

On the wider subject Malcom has made a very good point. It may well turn out that re-resurgence that the BNP has had recently is a good thing for British politics and Britain as a whole. It seemed fairly obvious that many of the votes that the BNP have received, especially in Northern towns full of disillusioned and often marginalised people, were actually cries for help rather than a support for the more radical and hateful policies of the BNP.

There is issues in the UK with immigration. There is a real sense that being British is not allowed anymore, It is a real problem that the man on the street is feeling and yet a spineless and impotent Government has failed to address any of their concerns. Multi Culturism has failed, other cultures are not integrating into British society, preferring instead stay segregated, not learning the language or embracing the culture. A vote for the BNP should be seen as a shot in the arm to the main parties, force them to see that this is a real issue that demands a real and open debate. There is nothing racist about wanting to tackle the immigration problem, for some people however the BNP is the only party willing to even discuss it. The issue is that many people are too thick to realise that the real motives of the BNP are far more sinister and pretty obnoxious but on the other hand I can understand why some feel that voting for them is the answer. The more they allow Nick Griffin to talk about his policies the more people will see him for what he is, I don't understand how stopping him speaking is a good thing.

Hopefully then the BNP can just disappear back down the toilet it came from.

Quoted from Murphy This is the price we all pay for freedom, it does mean we have to listen to things we object to.

Indeed. And I will die for right to say it, as a wiser man than me once said.

But, I did actually listen to that cunt tonight on Question Time. I nearly threw up. I use that word rarely too trust me. But he is a fucking cunt. A phrase I use sparingly.

He's a fucking snake. You know it, they know it too. Ho the fuck anyone ever voted for him is beyond me.

But he's there's now - as a Euro MP. And they think it's up and up? I don't fucking think so. From now on it's down down down baby. Help me. Stop these racist fucks beofre they knock at your door. Please. Stop em while you can.

RV out

In Germany, the NSDAP got elected because of the weakness and corruption of the other parties - this is the case here too. We have a Government and Opposition that are more interested in their expenses forms than the problems facing the UK.

The Chancellor, after the worst financial collapse in 80 years, claims that there is no need to reform banking.

We will make deals for oil to release terrorists, and even send the SAS to train soldiers of a Government that is held responsible for attacking us.

We will give benefits to convicted Islamic terrorists, who preach hatred on a par with the BNP, but will forcibly deport innocent people to countries where they will be murdered (the UK Government once drugged and handcuffed a Zimbabwean political activist and put him on a plane to Harare where he disappeared into Mugabe's torture chambers).

We have a Government that plans to spend billions spying on every email and phone call we make in the name of security, and yet talks of the need to make cutbacks in public services to save money.

I very much doubt that all those who vote for the BNP are racist, they just want someone to do something instead of talking about it. It was very much this feeling that manifested itself in the support for Barack Obama in the US - sadly in the UK we have no one even remotely like Obama to lead the people away from the extremists - all we have is David Cameron and Nick Clegg (The Chuckle Brothers of UK Politics!).

Couldn't agree more Niles, the lack of credible Government and spineless opposition is beginning to polarise oppinions - Never a good thing.

The vast silent majority out there, are beginning to wake up to the fact the the United Kingdom, has become so fractured, we've almost lost it. When the worm finally turns and it will. It makes you wonder which way it'll go.

Thank God Nick Griffin is such a tosser. Someone half believable - half credible, would have got a lot more than a few Northern Votes.

God help us all, when that day comes.

In the end, it all turned out alright - he made such a fool of himself on the show that by the end everyone was just laughing at him.

I see this morning that the BNP have now complained that everyone just spent the whole show attacking Griffin, rather than talking about the postal strike, Afghanistan, etc. - so typical of a party that always refuses to actually face up to criticism of their views and values. "Oh, you let us on Question Time, but it wasn't the right kind of Question Time..."

Quoted from JonnyBoy Oh, you let us on Question Time, but it wasn't the right kind of Question Time..."

Laughing out loud here.