First let me say that I searched the boards and everything that mentions TS is rather old and a bit off my point - so I apologize in advance to the old-timers that may have had this conversation several times already...

So I joined a while back and did my four reviews, but I didn't post my script until last week because I wanted to incorporate the AWESOME feedback I got here at SS.

I'm reviewing my fifth one now, and with apologies to any of the five people that may swing by here as a guest and recognize my name, four of them were not very good at all.  One of the four, with maybe three more re-writes, has a chance at being a pretty decent horror flick.  The other three are irredeemable.

So my script has been assigned 14 times - and has been rejected 5 times (so that's 19 times total, actually) - with no reviews.

Listen, I know my logline sucks. It doesn't suck as bad as it used to, but it still kinda sucks.  Sue me, my film is low concept. It's character-driven.  I'm almost tempted to add to my log "oh, I forgot to mention - everyone's a zombie or a werewolf!"  I don't think anyone would appreciate the sarcasm though...

As for the four I reviewed - I don't like horror films. Sorry, I know SS caters to it and is kind of a breeding ground for it. I respect that you guys can write it so well. But the first script I had to review was horror - and I kept it.  I kind of enjoyed going through it actually and solving the plot problems.

Maybe it's the way I was raised.  I would NEVER refuse an assignment. If you make a commitment, you stick to it. Know why? Because the person on the other end doesn't know why you refused it. Could be a good reason, like you were called away on business; or it could be because you're a whiny little brat who doesn't like the logline or has difficulty with the first four pages.

But all the writer knows is that you refused to read the script. The writer now thinks the script is unworthy. And maybe it is. But you should give it a chance and finish what you agreed to finish, no?

So to any TS members who also read here (I would NEVER post this over there), I say to you stop being little sissy mary whiny snotnose spoiled you-know-whats and read what is assigned to you.

End of rant - we now return you to our regularly scheduled postings...

AJR

So no one has reviewed your script on TS so far? Wow, that surprises me. I mean, they only let you reject reviews so many times before the system starts getting grumpy on you. TS basically forces what we do on the honor system. One review for another.

Where TS breaks down is that there is a prize for good reviews which leads to cliques among the regulars and scripts from newbs on that site get torpedoed as opposed to getting any kind of worthwhile or useful reviews. Likewise, some people may well review your script, but they only do it for the credit, so while it was read, the review was worthless.

I haven't logged into TS in years.

George,

Yup, 5 refusals, and it's still been assigned 14 times, which means it was assigned 19 times in total. I still can't figure out how, from only four reviews I finished, I got 19 assignments in the first place. Weird.

AJR

Quoted from ajr First let me say that I searched the boards and everything that mentions TS is rather old and a bit off my point - so I apologize in advance to the old-timers that may have had this conversation several times already... So I joined a while back and did my four reviews, but I didn't post my script until last week because I wanted to incorporate the AWESOME feedback I got here at SS. I'm reviewing my fifth one now, and with apologies to any of the five people that may swing by here as a guest and recognize my name, four of them were not very good at all.  One of the four, with maybe three more re-writes, has a chance at being a pretty decent horror flick.  The other three are irredeemable. So my script has been assigned 14 times - and has been rejected 5 times (so that's 19 times total, actually) - with no reviews. Listen, I know my logline sucks. It doesn't suck as bad as it used to, but it still kinda sucks.  Sue me, my film is low concept. It's character-driven.  I'm almost tempted to add to my log "oh, I forgot to mention - everyone's a zombie or a werewolf!"  I don't think anyone would appreciate the sarcasm though... As for the four I reviewed - I don't like horror films. Sorry, I know SS caters to it and is kind of a breeding ground for it. I respect that you guys can write it so well. But the first script I had to review was horror - and I kept it.  I kind of enjoyed going through it actually and solving the plot problems. Maybe it's the way I was raised.  I would NEVER refuse an assignment. If you make a commitment, you stick to it. Know why? Because the person on the other end doesn't know why you refused it. Could be a good reason, like you were called away on business; or it could be because you're a whiny little brat who doesn't like the logline or has difficulty with the first four pages. But all the writer knows is that you refused to read the script. The writer now thinks the script is unworthy. And maybe it is. But you should give it a chance and finish what you agreed to finish, no? So to any TS members who also read here (I would NEVER post this over there), I say to you stop being little sissy mary whiny snotnose spoiled you-know-whats and read what is assigned to you. End of rant - we now return you to our regularly scheduled postings... AJR

I understand your feelings, but for me it's understandable that people will refuse assignments.

I can't be bothered with Zoetrope or Trigger street, because I haven't the time to spend hours and hours reviewing scripts that I have no interest in. Honestly, I wouldn't do it even if I was paid. I'd rather have no money and borrow something I like from the library.

Ultimately a low concept, character driven piece is not going to appeal to a lot of people, it's very niche stuff EVEN if it is superbly written. There are thousands upon thousands of drama's made each year and there are great films out there that can't get close to a distribution deal or a festival screening that are in that category.

So you've picked probably the least appealing genre and then you compound it by admitting your log line is crap. Not getting reads is a valuable lesson in itself. You've got to do better than that, it's just the reality of the situation.

It seems to be a common problem with a lot of writers that they can't write loglines. I'll be honest and say that worries me. If a writer who knows his story inside out can't convey the sense of it in a few lines, who can?

It sends a signal that the writer isn't fully in control of what they are doing and you instantly expect the script itself to be poor. Simply put: If you can't get three lines right, how can you get 90-120 pages right?

Not having  ago here, I'm just pointing out what I consider the harsh truth....

Rick.

Quoted from ajr As for the four I reviewed - I don't like horror films. Sorry, I know SS caters to it and is kind of a breeding ground for it.

I wouldn't say that SS caters to horror.  While those, here, seem to accept the genre than TS, there's a good mix of all genres.


Phil

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films It sends a signal that the writer isn't fully in control of what they are doing and you instantly expect the script itself to be poor. Simply put: If you can't get three lines right, how can you get 90-120 pages right?

Not to go too far off topic, but I am in vehement disagreement with this statement. I have a story that I can describe the core tale in one sentence, but the story is little more than a dramatic overlay to the overall premise. Hence, people usually read my script as a favor, but ended up loving it because of the premise it was built on that can't really be conveyed in a short logline.

It would be like someone asking how your train ride through Europe went and all you say is "I took a train ride through Europe to see many fascinating sights." Well, that's all very interesting, and I'm sure the facts about the locomotive are nice as well, but how the sights affected you are far more interesting and the reason you bought the ticket to begin with. but you can't describe those interesting points in a sentence or two.

So your assertion that an author who can't "sum it up" in a few words has no control over the story is met with a raspberry from this corner.

Quoted from George Willson Not to go too far off topic, but I am in vehement disagreement with this statement. I have a story that I can describe the core tale in one sentence, but the story is little more than a dramatic overlay to the overall premise. Hence, people usually read my script as a favor, but ended up loving it because of the premise it was built on that can't really be conveyed in a short logline. It would be like someone asking how your train ride through Europe went and all you say is "I took a train ride through Europe to see many fascinating sights." Well, that's all very interesting, and I'm sure the facts about the locomotive are nice as well, but how the sights affected you are far more interesting and the reason you bought the ticket to begin with. but you can't describe those interesting points in a sentence or two. So your assertion that an author who can't "sum it up" in a few words has no control over the story is met with a raspberry from this corner.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't think there is any story that can't be at least hinted at in an intriguing fashion in a short log-line.

One of the most complicated and philosophical films I've seen (and one of my all time favourites) was Coppolla's Youth without Youth.

"A love story wrapped in a mystery. Set in Europe before WWII, a timid professor is changed by a cataclysmic event and explores the mysteries of life".

Although the two lines don't give you the whole story, they convery a sense of intrigue, a sense of the story, the genre, the philosophical nature, the setting and even the main character.

We've even got the hook (we want to see the cataclysmic event).

That's just off IMDb as well, I'm not even sure if it is the official log-line, it might just be a reviewer who has stuck it up.

You should be able to convery a sense of what we are going to watch, no matter how complex the plot is. The complexity itself can be hinted at in the logline.

I see where you are coming from with the European trip example, but that's not a story, it's an event.

What the story is about, and the genre, should be conveyed in the log line:

EG Philosphical

A European vacation becomes a voyage of self-discovery for a group of friends when.....

Thriller:

Two adventure seeking American teenagers European vacation turns into a battle for survival when...

Supernatural

Separated from her tour group in rural Poland, an amateur photographer stumbles across a mysterious village where....

You get the point.

What's your story about anyway?

Here's the logline: When a boy in the eighteenth century is changed into a different race, he must learn to adapt to his new life or face the consequences of rebellion.

Looking at it now probably 4 years after writing it, I could also get technical and say:
When a rogue Fempiror transmutates a boy in the eighteenth century, he must learn to adapt to his new life or face the consequences of rebellion.

Thing is, I wasn't sure whether using the name of my race would work in a logline or not. This is the first story, so you don't know what one is, so it's a meaningless word, though it could also generate intrigue since you might want to know about this whole transmutation thing. The logline doesn't show the adventure side of the story, since the main character's journey is his adaptation, though. Such is my conundrum.

George,

I agree with you.  I think most great movies do not have great log lines.  What is the log line for Annie Hall? American Beauty? The Sting? Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?  And (500) Days of Summer, for that matter?

And decadence, I went a bit overboard in stating that my logline sucks.  I have one, and it describes what the script is "about" - but at its essence, it's a low-concept comedy that hopefully makes people laugh. It's also about alienation, and growth, and people coming together from different worlds.  Is it possible to convey that in a log?

To be fair, I'm only using my logline on TS - maybe I should expand it to a synopsis.

But I cringe when I hear someone say "tell me what your movie is about in one sentence".  Well, if I could do that, why would you need to go see it then?  You could just read about it in a pack of Bazooka Joe!

We've boiled our whole culture down to 30 second sound bytes, and it irritates the hell out of me.  When someone says to me "you've got one sentence to impress me", I think to myself "eff you, I have 90-120 pages to impress you - whether or not you want to invest in it is up to you."

Quoted from George Willson Here's the logline: When a boy in the eighteenth century is changed into a different race, he must learn to adapt to his new life or face the consequences of rebellion. Looking at it now probably 4 years after writing it, I could also get technical and say: When a rogue Fempiror transmutates a boy in the eighteenth century, he must learn to adapt to his new life or face the consequences of rebellion. Thing is, I wasn't sure whether using the name of my race would work in a logline or not. This is the first story, so you don't know what one is, so it's a meaningless word, though it could also generate intrigue since you might want to know about this whole transmutation thing. The logline doesn't show the adventure side of the story, since the main character's journey is his adaptation, though. Such is my conundrum.

Ah we're talking about your big baby here, the Fempiror Chronicles!

The log-line itself isn't bad, it's quite interesting. Before I knew what it was though, I thought it was a completely different story.

I envisaged a period drama where a guy somehow became black!

That's quite a good story actually, but it's not what we want to get.

I take it you are actively avoiding the use of the word vampire?

What I think you need to convey, is that he's changed into a different "race of being", or species, rather than just a different race. The automatic assumption is the one I made.

(The one you've posted just now by the way suggests it's the rogue Fempiror that faces the test, not the boy btw).

I think you are right in trying to shy away from the word Fempiror just yet. You could introduce them as something like:

"An ancient and mysterious supernatural race"

Or "An ancient and terrifying race of beings"

Or some other similar amalgamation. You could then add: "Known as the Fempiror" if you so desire.

"A terrifying encounter with an ancient and mysterious being leaves an eighteenth century boy's life changed forever. Unable to return home, he must learn to embrace his new Destiny, or face the consequences of rebellion."

Just an idea. Gets the idea of the race of beings in a bit more, which is a key part of the story and a top selling point. I stuck Destiny in there just to make it seem more Epic. Your story is very Epic, it needs a bit of building up.

I stayed away from describing what happened to him, just as an option for you, in case you don't want to have to give to much info. away. Figured it might spoil a key scene.

I have a vague feeling we should have a bit more ambience in there, like a reference to the Eighteenth century. " A time of upheaval and rebellion" or whatever (I'm not sure what aspect of the setting is the critical one to the story, if at all. To my shame, I've yet to read it. )

Quoted from ajr George, I agree with you.  I think most great movies do not have great log lines.  What is the log line for Annie Hall? American Beauty? The Sting? Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?  And (500) Days of Summer, for that matter? And decadence, I went a bit overboard in stating that my logline sucks.  I have one, and it describes what the script is "about" - but at its essence, it's a low-concept comedy that hopefully makes people laugh. It's also about alienation, and growth, and people coming together from different worlds.  Is it possible to convey that in a log? To be fair, I'm only using my logline on TS - maybe I should expand it to a synopsis. But I cringe when I hear someone say "tell me what your movie is about in one sentence".  Well, if I could do that, why would you need to go see it then?  You could just read about it in a pack of Bazooka Joe! We've boiled our whole culture down to 30 second sound bytes, and it irritates the hell out of me.  When someone says to me "you've got one sentence to impress me", I think to myself "eff you, I have 90-120 pages to impress you - whether or not you want to invest in it is up to you."

It's not about telling the whole story in a few words. It's more about conveying the type of film, even if it's off-beat.

I don't know what the log lines for the films you mention are, but the essence of all films is usually fairly simple.

Annie Hall: A romantic comedy about a neurotic, pessimistic  New York comedian and a ditsy singer.

You know what it is. You get the gist of it straight away. I know I'm not going to be watching big gun battles in the streets.

The Sting:

In 1930s Chicago, a young con man seeking revenge for his murdered partner teams up with a master of the big con to win a fortune from a criminal banker.


You know the type of film from the name alone, let alone the log-line.

Obviously all the quality of the film comes from the standard of the writing, but you're getting the essence of what you are about to watch/read.

Almost all stories can be summed up in one sentence.

A farm boy has to save the Universe from an Evil Empire. That's three movies worth.

A young orphan with magical powers must save the world from the evil Lord Voldemort. That's 7 or 8 novels worth.

A man terrified of water must protect a town from a giant shark.



When it comes to low concept stuff (which is a terrible name, sounds demeaning) you just need to get the vibe across that it is "quirky", unconventional, off the wall etc It's funny that you say you can't get it across, when it only took you two sentences to do it yourself.   Stick a bit of the story in and its more or less there.

Here's a great low concept story with similar themes:

As good as it gets.

"A single mother/waitress, a misanthropic author, and a gay artist form an unlikely friendship "

The title works because it has two meanings. It could mean this is great, it's as good as it's possible to get

Or the pessimistic meaning: You never get anything good, this is as good as things will ever be.

Just from the list of characters above we can imagine the kind of scenarios that are going to be happening.

What's in your film that is different from everything else? Get it out there for the world to see. If there isn;t anything different, you need to sort that out as well.

Decadence,

I hear you, and I can get my story across in one sentence, but there's a bit of a "so-what?" factor in all low-concept logs, including the ones you summarized above. True, we know what the story is about, but do you really want to fly to the theater after reading the "Annie Hall" one, assuming you didn't know it was a Woody Allen flick?

Here's mine:

A frustrated writer must reconcile his feelings for two women, his crazy friends, and his blue-collar neighborhood during a wild 48 hours in 1989 Queens, New York.

I like it, but I can see other people saying "So what?  Where's the zombies and vampires?  Where's the twist?"

I think the log from (500) Days of Summer (if I remember correctly from IMDB) was something like "A story about a girl who doesn't believe in true love - and the boy who falls in love with her."

Now I would go see that - but does it really leap off the page and drag you to the theater?  American Beauty and Eternal Sunshine are two of the other pictures that come to mind that are incredibly complex and wonderful films and would be done an injustice by a one-sentence summation.

AJR

Oh, and as an exclamation point to this thread, I just refreshed my trigger street page, and it's now up to 6 removals with no reads...

Quoted from ajr I hear you, and I can get my story across in one sentence, but there's a bit of a "so-what?" factor in all low-concept logs...

I hear you, too, but that is the game and you gotta learn to play it whether you like it or not.

Quoted from ajr A frustrated writer must reconcile his feelings for two women, his crazy friends, and his blue-collar neighborhood during a wild 48 hours in 1989 Queens, New York.

Quoted from better A frustrated writer must reconcile his feelings for two women in 1989 Queens.

Shorter.  Lost the blue-collar neighborhood (you already say Queens), and I lost the quirky friends (name me a film of any genre that does not have quirky friends).

Now you got space in this logline to punch it up.

Dig into that script and find out what is special there.

It ain't quirky friends.  Find that spark and plug it in.  You will know it when you find it.


[Edit:  Oh, and I do not care much for Triggerstreet.  I find that if you choose carefully when choosing scripts and selecting which authors to read, your time is much better spent here.  My opinion, anyway.]

I'm 50/50 on Triggerstreet. I hated having to read and review, which takes hours, only to get a review back that barely reaches the minimum word count required, not half as detailed as the ones you spent hours preparing for other writers.

Some reviews were great though, some guy even contacted me offering to do a 5-10 page coverage for my script on the condition he could use it as a sample to show around. Most of the scripts I reviewed, the authors posted a thank you on my page, so I can't complain about that.

I do admit to rejecting an assignment or two. One case was because I couldn't get past the way the guy wrote his action lines. I had never seen anything like this before and because it was an action script, it was impossible for me to get through.

In short, I'd pick this place over Triggerstreet any day of the week.

Brian