The way I see this playing out... is you vote for keeping things exactly in the same fucked up way they are now, or you vote for change, and you do so in the most extreme manner, by voting in Trump.

Quoted from DustinBowcot The way I see this playing out... is you vote for keeping things exactly in the same fucked up way they are now, or you vote for change, and you do so in the most extreme manner, by voting in Trump.

I think that's where I tend to disagree, because I think the change under a Bernie Sanders Presidency would have been positive, but the change under a Trump Presidency would be detrimental to the country, maybe the world. Things can actually get worse than they are now. I don't want to find out how much worse.

Only Trump has the real strength to do anything. Everyone else is too weak. They may even have the best intentions, but once in office would they be strong enough to make the change we all know we need? Trump claims he will pull out of the Middle East, for example. Sounds like good intentions to me.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Only Trump has the real strength to do anything. Everyone else is too weak. They may even have the best intentions, but once in office would they be strong enough to make the change we all know we need? Trump claims he will pull out of the Middle East, for example. Sounds like good intentions to me.

Trump's businesses have filed for bankruptcy 6 times, and he's currently embroiled in a trail of lawsuits for fraud - some being prosecuted by State Attorney Generals. I don't get it why people continue to believe that he's capable of doing anything he promises. Pull out of the Middle East? I don't think I've ever heard him articulate a Middle East policy, and I follow this every day. He has stated that he was against invading Iraq from the beginning, but audio from his radio interviews just prior to the invasion confirm that he supported going to war.

Quoted from Bogey It was amusing in the summer of 2015. Now it's just terrifying. Since this is a screenwriting forum, my choice for the movie title that would best match a Trump victory in November? Apocalypse Now.

If he wins and replaces Obama, will the television series be:  "Orange is the New Black"?

Seems there is an appetite for this kind of discussion! Never understand the need to shut it down. We all have views, and as long as things stay civil, we should always seek to not curtail discussion.

Anyway, as a man politically positioned between Obama and Blair, I disagree with much of Trump's political views, but am mature enough to separate the man from his politics, and admit there is something inherently likeable about him in the sense that you know if you met him in the pub you'd have a laugh.

Also, we on the left must realise that he speaks for many who feel disenfranchised not just by Democrats, but mainstream Republicans as well. If you listen to many, it is about what they perceive to be a stifling "PC culture" and there is undoubtedly some truth to that across both the US and UK. We on the left should be looking at giving these people voice and not labelling them a "basket of deplorables".

We also need to be consistent on issues. Many Jeremy Corbyn supporters (the far, far left) complain about biased, unfair, ridiculing media coverage and, staggeringly, celebrate and revel in Trump being meted out the same coverage. This sneering elitism, hypocrisy and self-righteousness is what drives many to support Trump rather than sexism, racism, homophobia or xenophobia. We on the left need to restate our case for centrism and rather than labelling those we disagree with, seeking instead to build bridges.

Long story short, demonising Trump is considered demonising his supporters by them. We can disagree with bans on Muslims, building walls and taking away a woman's right to own her body and her choices without ridicule. And we must be mature, humble and wise enough to realise that not everything Trump - or Clinton for that matter - says is wrong because it is spoken by them.

Quoted from Andrew Seems there is an appetite for this kind of discussion! Never understand the need to shut it down. We all have views, and as long as things stay civil, we should always seek to not curtail discussion. Anyway, as a man politically positioned between Obama and Blair, I disagree with much of Trump's political views, but am mature enough to separate the man from his politics, and admit there is something inherently likeable about him in the sense that you know if you met him in the pub you'd have a laugh. Also, we on the left must realise that he speaks for many who feel disenfranchised not just by Democrats, but mainstream Republicans as well. If you listen to many, it is about what they perceive to be a stifling "PC culture" and there is undoubtedly some truth to that across both the US and UK. We on the left should be looking at giving these people voice and not labelling them a "basket of deplorables". We also need to be consistent on issues. Many Jeremy Corbyn supporters (the far, far left) complain about biased, unfair, ridiculing media coverage and, staggeringly, celebrate and revel in Trump being meted out the same coverage. This sneering elitism, hypocrisy and self-righteousness is what drives many to support Trump rather than sexism, racism, homophobia or xenophobia. We on the left need to restate our case for centrism and rather than labelling those we disagree with, seeking instead to build bridges. Long story short, demonising Trump is considered demonising his supporters by them. We can disagree with bans on Muslims, building walls and taking away a woman's right to own her body and her choices without ridicule. And we must be mature, humble and wise enough to realise that not everything Trump - or Clinton for that matter - says is wrong because it is spoken by them.

Well thought out, Andrew.

Quoted from Andrew ... there is something inherently likeable about him in the sense that you know if you met him in the pub you'd have a laugh.

Except for one thing...you'd never meet him in a pub. He never mingles with anyone other than rich and famous, and he claims that his lips have never touched a drop of alcohol.

As for the laugh part, I used to laugh at him, because he was basically a parody of a classless rich guy, but the racist and violent speeches he gives make nothing about him laughable anymore.

If I come across as a liberal who just doesn't want a Republican in the White House, that's not my motive. I've voted for Republican Presidential nominees in the past, and might have even done so this year had the party nominated a reasonable centrist like Rand Paul. Even my father and brother, both conservatives and decorated members of the military for their service abroad (WWII and Vietnam), shiver at the thought of Trump in the White House.

Donald blatantly knocks back a few sherries.

Quoted from eldave1 Well thought out, Andrew.

Thanks, El.

Quoted from eldave1 If he wins and replaces Obama, will the television series be:  "Orange is the New Black"?

Damn, Dave, that's perfect!!  My hat's off to you for that quip!

Thanks

Quoted from eldave1 If he wins and replaces Obama, will the television series be:  "Orange is the New Black"?

Good one. Remember this?

At the :43 mark--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keXa2ZeR7Jk

BTW - you guys all know about good 'ole Donald's underage rape case, the likelihood he has Alzheimers, and is a Speed Freak.  I'm NOT kidding.  (Though I wish I was!)

The assault case: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html

Alzheimers (which is hereditary, and his father died from it): http://www.salon.com/2016/04/2.....but_simply_not_well/

Speed Kills (or at least makes you an orange a$$hole): http://addictinginfo.org/2016/.....a-little-more-sense/

Gotta love this stuff!  (I'm not saying Hillary's a good thing at all - but there's a difference between voting for corruption and insanity.)   (And I vote neither - Jill Stein for me, just so it's not on my conscience for what *either* of them do.)

Quoted from wonkavite BTW - you guys all know about good 'ole Donald's underage rape case, the likelihood he has Alzheimers, and is a Speed Freak.  I'm NOT kidding.  (Though I wish I was!) The assault case: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html Alzheimers (which is hereditary, and his father died from it): http://www.salon.com/2016/04/2.....but_simply_not_well/ Speed Kills (or at least makes you an orange a$$hole): http://addictinginfo.org/2016/.....a-little-more-sense/ Gotta love this stuff!  (I'm not saying Hillary's a good thing at all - but there's a difference between voting for corruption and insanity.)   (And I vote neither - Jill Stein for me, just so it's not on my conscience for what *either* of them do.)

I also recall that during Trump's divorce from his first wife (Ivana), when she accused him of rape, his lawyer took the position that it's not rape if you're married. No wonder Trump gushes over the "great" Bobby Knight - who once said in a 1988 national TV interview, "If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it." Pigs of a feather.