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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Discussion of...     General Chat  ›  Fermi's Paradox Moderators: bert
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leitskev
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 2:39pm Report to Moderator
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....essor-Brian-Cox.html

In my opinion, Cox is wrong and his biases in other areas likely are what led him astray.

Scientists can't make sense of why we have not found other intelligent life in a universe of trillions of stars. It's becoming a real, real problem.

But this idea that no civilization survives its own rise is mathematically flawed. Even if 99.9% of all civilizations destroyed themselves eventually(and that's a silly percentage), that would leave millions if not billions of advanced civilizations that survive. And we have absolutely no reason to think any civilization...any...has ever destroyed itself. There is no evidence for it. Yes, the Aztecs, the Mayans and so forth...but none of them wiped out the planet.

So what explanations could there be?

Maybe there is a supreme power that isolates developing civilizations until they are ready.

Or maybe we ARE alone...and what are the ramifications of that? Wouldn't this suggest the universe is in fact designed for us?

I have long been an atheist. But I keep an open mind to any possibility. Scientists like Cox don't do that, so it forces them to strange conclusions, such as the idea that literally every civilization that arises destroys itself.

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Don  -  October 10th, 2016, 5:06pm
typo in title
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 4:47pm Report to Moderator
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The Universe has almost certainly been designed.


I'm an advocate of the Strong Anthropic Principle.

The conditions that have created life are so particular that it is just about impossible for any other conclusion to be drawn.

Some try to argue that it's tautology...that despite the infinite number of possible Universes that couldn't support life, or such intelligent life...only a race such as ourselves could talk/think about it, so any race that came up with the question would HAVE to live in such a Universe.

It is possible that we are just this incredibly lucky. In an Infinite Multiverse there would be an infinite number of Universes like ours, that could support life, albeit amidst an Infinitely larger number of Universes that couldn't.

However not only are we intelligent, our planet seems ridiculously designed for life. We could be super intelligent, but live on a desert planet, with no natural resources or have evolved just as the Sun was about to destroy us. Instead we literally have been provided with absolutely everything...protection from other races, food, resources, protection from stellar phenomena and most of all time...everything to enable not only survival...but to migrate from the planet. It's too convenient.

There's also the theory that is compatible with quantum physics that the Universe. or a Universe,  cannot exist without an observer to collapse it into a specific waveform.

There is a very high degree of possibility that it's a simulation. Recent experiments have shown that the information leaving the Universe through black holes is not substantial enough for a true 3 dimensional reality...it's a 2d simulation. James Gate also found the same binary transmission error correction code that our computers use in the fabric of the Universe. That's not conclusive...we may just have unknowingly copied something which works...but  the more we learn, the more it seems that the Universe has been designed.

For any intelligent civilization, there will be millions, perhaps trillions of simulations running...see The Sims. So the likelihood of belonging to an "actual" reality is slim, even if you're lucky enough to be in a real Universe in the first place.

On the balance of probabliity it seems very likely that we're some form of simulation. Either a moral one, or a physical one. On a strictly physical level, looking at the state of the Universe, the likeliest reason for it's existence would be to see if we can find a way to delay or reverse Universal Entropy. If the Universe is Real or not, that is pretty much the only thing we need to worry about. This Universe will die of Heat Death. An advanced civilization, similar to us, could be running it at super speed to see if we can stop it. We'd have to go through the same learning process they went through to make it relevant.

On a Spiritual level, you either attain a certain level, or you're thrown on the rubbish dump like Jesus says. The rest get to play in the real world.

Life is very simple when you break it down. There are only two things to do:
1. Stop Universal Entropy
2. Attain the highest Spiritual Level possible.

Those are the only two possible choices to make. Anything else is a waste of time. It's also possible the second is the only true one because even if you achieve the first...what then?


In terms of the Fermi Paradox...there may well be a more prosaic reason. The speed of light might simply mean that we can't see what's there...when we look straight at an Alien civilisation, or they look at us, they see us millions of years ago, not as we are now. Even a relatively close neighbour in galactic terms, could still be seeing the planet before we even evolved and what looks like dead space to us, may be absolutely teeming with life.

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Scar Tissue Films  -  October 10th, 2016, 4:57pm
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leitskev
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 5:02pm Report to Moderator
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Well said, I agree on pretty much all of it.

Accept Fermi's paradox. Yes, the speed of light means we'd be looking at civilizations that might no longer even exist...but we'd still be looking at them. Where are they? The universe is all. It's on the back 9 so to speak. There should be flashing neons all over the sky saying I'm here...or I was here.

Every aspect of the universe suggests design. However, to the fella that wins the lottery, it feels like fate, even though it's chance. If we live in a multiverse, we could just have drawn the lucky number.

And yet I am inclined to agree, there's too much for it not to be designed.

But design is a loaded word. There may not be a creator so much as a creative impulse...the universe designing itself. Also, if there is a creator, hard to guess what its purpose is, and it might not be good news for us.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 5:20pm Report to Moderator
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The Universe is only 13.6 billion years old...it's very young. So there won't be many/any historic alien races.

The early days would have been too chaotic, too hot. So only towards the centre of galaxies, where everything has slowed down would there have been any possibility of alien races developing until relatively recently.

The thing with the speed of light is that if a planet is a million light years away...we'd see it as though it was a million years ago, not as it is today.  It's not that we'd see the things they'd left behind...there isn't enough time for them to have developed then disappeared. It's more likely we'd be seeing them before they even existed.

Humans evolved around 200,000 years ago, and only recently have we made any foray off our planet....so there's only a tiny time-frame for other aliens to have become aware of us, if they exist. If they were looking at us from a distance, they'd see the dinosaurs or even earlier.

The nearest galaxy to ours is Andromeda. A species looking at us from there would see us as we were 2.5 million years ago.  Hominids barely existed, let alone modern humans.

Basically, the sky could be full of aliens, but even if we point our telescopes right at them, we can't see them. Light is too slow.
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leitskev
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 5:39pm Report to Moderator
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The most recent data I've seen has the universe ending in 7 billion years, so we are closer to the end than the beginning, but that evidence is always changing.

In any case, we evolved very quickly here, so there should be plenty of life out there.

On speed of light...no...we would see them how they existed. Just like if someone a million light years from us will be seeing a signal from us right now a million years from now.

So if we see signals from someone a million light years away, we're seeing them as they were a million years ago.

Yes, as far as others looking for our signal, the time limits it. And so looking for someone sending us a pruposeful signal is not very likely to bear fruit.

But we should be seeing signs, such as the harnessing of star power, or noise that is clearly artificial.

This is why this has become a paradox to scientists. It's now reached a point that they are surprised we are not finding evidence.
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AnthonyCawood
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 5:47pm Report to Moderator
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The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence... was it Sagan?

Anyway, just because science can't find evidence now doesn't mean they won't eventually.



Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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eldave1
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 8:21pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....essor-Brian-Cox.html

In my opinion, Cox is wrong and his biases in other areas likely are what led him astray.

Scientists can't make sense of why we have not found other intelligent life in a universe of trillions of stars. It's becoming a real, real problem.

But this idea that no civilization survives its own rise is mathematically flawed. Even if 99.9% of all civilizations destroyed themselves eventually(and that's a silly percentage), that would leave millions if not billions of advanced civilizations that survive. And we have absolutely no reason to think any civilization...any...has ever destroyed itself. There is no evidence for it. Yes, the Aztecs, the Mayans and so forth...but none of them wiped out the planet.

So what explanations could there be?

Maybe there is a supreme power that isolates developing civilizations until they are ready.

Or maybe we ARE alone...and what are the ramifications of that? Wouldn't this suggest the universe is in fact designed for us?

I have long been an atheist. But I keep an open mind to any possibility. Scientists like Cox don't do that, so it forces them to strange conclusions, such as the idea that literally every civilization that arises destroys itself.


First - fellow atheist. Don't want to be - just happen to be.

The problem with the article from my view is that there is nothing scientific about it. The premise is a strawman:


Quoted Text
...he believes our search is unlikely to see results because intelligent life destroys itself not long after it evolves.


There is zero evidence for this. The only known intelligent life has not destroyed itself. Sample size of one.  


Quoted Text
It is one of astronomy’s great mysteries: Why, given the estimated 200bn-400bn stars and at least 100bn planets in our galaxy, are there no signs of alien intelligence?


Perhaps because we have not evolved to the point where we are sophisticated enough to detect or see them. The absence of our ability to do that does not mean ergo they must have exited and destroyed themselves.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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stevie
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 8:34pm Report to Moderator
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I brought this up with my kids this morn just to see what they thought but they were mucking around too much.

I had the idea that any alien life forms out there maybe - for whatever reason - are just not as advanced with powered flight etc like us? Perhaps their histories and early development were totally different from ours and they still live in caves and stuff.

Who knows? I was raised a Christian but started forming my own views at about 14. I believe there is some form of 'being' behind it all. But we ain't gonna discover the truth until we die. And lets face it, no one has ever come back to tell us, have they? And if there is nothing after death then you won't even know that you have lived or died. LOL

I'll leave you with this quote by Rick Rubin:


"For me, the Beatles are proof of the existence of God."  





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AlsoBen
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 8:38pm Report to Moderator
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We only reguarly view a tiny part of the night sky. By all measures. we haven't even come close to visual mapping of the observable universe.


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leitskev
Posted: October 10th, 2016, 8:57pm Report to Moderator
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"For me, the Beatles are proof of the existence of God."

Would that mean these guys prove the existence of God's nemesis?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiIH5PewAzs
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eldave1
Posted: October 11th, 2016, 10:20am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
"For me, the Beatles are proof of the existence of God."

Would that mean these guys prove the existence of God's nemesis?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiIH5PewAzs


I know my parents thought so


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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leitskev
Posted: October 11th, 2016, 10:46am Report to Moderator
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I've had to bring my mother to 3 Rolling Stones concerts. One was at Fenway Park.
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eldave1
Posted: October 11th, 2016, 11:18am Report to Moderator
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NOICE!


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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stevie
Posted: October 11th, 2016, 3:36pm Report to Moderator
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Lol the Stones are proof of eternal life



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