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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Discussion of...     General Chat  ›  What would you do? Moderators: bert
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  Author    What would you do?  (currently 732 views)
irish eyes
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 10:31am Report to Moderator
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Hi my fellow peeps I have a quick question
I got this email


Hi I was interested in UNLAWFUL DUTIES and tried to email you and never got a response. I believe I tried the other email link and it didn't work in simply script. But I did make some changes in dialogue and directed the short. I added you to the credits as Mark Moore as written by is that fine along with me with the changes I made. Once itís complete rendered up on YouTube Iíll send it over..

1. I never got any email asking my permission
2. He did make changes and included himself in writing credits
3. He has already directed it and it's actually pretty decent.

I called him out on it but I don't think he gets what he did wrong and instead wants to talk about future episodes

What do you all think?


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irish eyes
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 10:34am Report to Moderator
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Here is the link to the short

https://youtu.be/K1vBu6pgKC8


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Grandma Bear
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 10:41am Report to Moderator
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Crummy thing to do, for sure, but you did get credit and you're not totally unhappy with the result and it is a short, not a feature, so IMHO, there's no reason to go ballistic on it.

Congratulations?


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eldave1
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 12:58pm Report to Moderator
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I would not be kind. But, remember I am really old and cranky.

So, the dude was unable to contact you by email before he did the film, but was somehow able to contact you afterward???? Hmmm.  Did the dog eat the homework?

The dude has done several shorts (at least per his IMDB page and his website ) and doesn't know better to film someone's work without permission??? By the way - you are not listed as a writer on the IMDB page.

He recognizes that you are the writer, at least a co-writer  - but did not offer you compensation???

ANGRY DAVE would tell this peckerhead that he has forwarded these emails to his attorney. In the meantime, take down the video - cease and desist.  You will hear from my lawyer.

RATIONAL DAVE - ya know. he did a pretty good job.  So, it you want this video to stay up I would respond as follows.

- You retain the rights to your original script and may sell it to anyone else at any time in the future.  Of course, that would also include him (i.e., he could buy it).

- You must be listed in the first writer in all credits including on the film and related sites including industry sites such as IMDB (e.g., as a note: only he is credited as the writer on IMDB).

- No future use of your story and characters should be used without prior written permission.

That's me - and I am only being that kind because as it turns out - he did a pretty good job on the film. But look, this guy has been around the block - he effing knows better. He stole your work - then negotiated afterwards hoping you would just be delighted that it was filmed.

Anyway - for what it is worth - my thoughts.









My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 2:00pm Report to Moderator
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Holy shit, I'm actually friends with the guy who directed it, he's been hiring me to polish up scripts for him. He actually showed me the short a few days ago, didn't know you wrote it, Mark.

I could have a chat with him, I guess. What do you think YOU should do? I, myself, have a decent working relationship with the guy and he hasn't really done anything questionable, at least with me. This, however, is a bit of a no-no -- you never use a script w/ out the author's permission.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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irish eyes
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 2:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Pia
Crummy thing to do, for sure, but you did get credit and you're not totally unhappy with the result and it is a short, not a feature, so IMHO, there's no reason to go ballistic on it.

Congratulations?


Thanks Pia. You're right the final outcome was pretty good. The way he went around it not so much. I brought up that he was able to contact me after he made it without a problem..
He danced around that answer


Quoted from Dave
I would not be kind. But, remember I am really old and cranky.

So, the dude was unable to contact you by email before he did the film, but was somehow able to contact you afterward???? Hmmm.  Did the dog eat the homework?

The dude has done several shorts (at least per his IMDB page and his website ) and doesn't know better to film someone's work without permission??? By the way - you are not listed as a writer on the IMDB page.


Yeah my sentiments exactly and I brought that up.





Quoted from Dave
He recognizes that you are the writer, at least a co-writer  - but did not offer you compensation???

ANGRY DAVE would tell this peckerhead that he has forwarded these emails to his attorney. In the meantime, take down the video - cease and desist.  You will hear from my lawyer.

RATIONAL DAVE - ya know. he did a pretty good job.  So, it you want this video to stay up I would respond as follows.

- You retain the rights to your original script and may sell it to anyone else at any time in the future.  Of course, that would also include him (i.e., he could buy it).

- You must be listed in the first writer in all credits including on the film and related sites including industry sites such as IMDB (e.g., as a note: only he is credited as the writer on IMDB).

- No future use of your story and characters should be used without prior written permission.

That's me - and I am only being that kind because as it turns out - he did a pretty good job on the film. But look, this guy has been around the block - he effing knows better. He stole your work - then negotiated afterwards hoping you would just be delighted that it was filmed.

Anyway - for what it is worth - my thoughts.


I like ANGRY DAVE  better
This was his response after I went after him with ANGRY MARK

I fully understand how you feel. But I was in a anxious position to make a short and came across your story and I felt it was perfect timing. I know alot of people is waiting to see it for my work has gotten getting better. I wish to make this into a series if your interested. 8 shows on how two corrupted cops who uses the law to catch dangerous pedophiles. We can also show their back story looveife and struggle of people a cop and upholding the law. It's so many ways we can run with it's but I'm a young film company looking to work with writers. So if your interested let's make history because I'm serious 2021 no more wishing. Just doing. That is why I took the story after no response to get it done and show you after so I can show you it can be done if we put our mind to it.  Once again I'm sorry I took it this route but I know I wasnt going to leave you out! I'm not that way.


Maybe  I'll approach the rational way now

Thanks for the great advice guys.




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irish eyes
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 2:17pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Michael
Holy shit, I'm actually friends with the guy who directed it, he's been hiring me to polish up scripts for him. He actually showed me the short a few days ago, didn't know you wrote it, Mark.

I could have a chat with him, I guess. What do you think YOU should do? I, myself, have a decent working relationship with the guy and he hasn't really done anything questionable, at least with me. This, however, is a bit of a no-no -- you never use a script w/ out the author's permission.


He seems a decent enough guy but as Dave pointed out he knows the game... So maybe he thought he could get away with it and then realized just in case I should contact the writer.
As Dave also noted he only has himself down as the writer on the IMDB page.
So not only did he take my script, change it slightly and now call it his own

That part is fucked up


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eldave1
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 2:28pm Report to Moderator
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Interesting....


Quoted Text
I fully understand how you feel. But I was in a anxious position to make a short and came across your story and I felt it was perfect timing.


In other words, my ethics stop at the point they conflict with my self-interests.


Quoted Text
I know alot of people is waiting to see it for my work has gotten getting better. I wish to make this into a series if your interested.


First - not much of a writer. Second - now is the time to talk about compensation. If it were me, I would strictly forbid him to continue with a series until all issues are worked out - compensation, writing credits, etc. In other words, I would flip it by saying - I will send you an agreement with my terms and conditions.

Again - if it were me. the only way I would move forward is to insist that he remove his name from the writing credit and exclusively use yours. Moving forward, you can decide if you want to write future episodes.


Quoted Text
Holy shit, I'm actually friends with the guy who directed it, he's been hiring me to polish up scripts for him. He actually showed me the short a few days ago, didn't know you wrote it, Mark.


Just curious, Michael - were these scripts written by him or others? Are you getting the writing credit or is it a ghostwriter gig?


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 2:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


Just curious, Michael - were these scripts written by him or others? Are you getting the writing credit or is it a ghostwriter gig?


It is ghostwriting, but I asked for producer credit and script consultant credit. As far as I know, they are his scripts. They're not super polished or super well written -- it feels like it's his writing, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. And he's a good dude, don't wanna talk bad about the guy publicly. If I were Mark, I'd ask for sole writing credit or a "story by" and then co-writing credit if he changed it up that much. I'd also ask for a little $. But that's just me. I already did see the film, and it turned out decent, so you have a decent short under your name. Just make sure you get the IMDB credit and maybe try to get a few bucks.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 2:44pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from spesh2k


It is ghostwriting, but I asked for producer credit and script consultant credit. As far as I know, they are his scripts. They're not super polished or super well written -- it feels like it's his writing, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. And he's a good dude, don't wanna talk bad about the guy publicly. If I were Mark, I'd ask for sole writing credit or a "story by" and then co-writing credit if he changed it up that much. I'd also ask for a little $. But that's just me. I already did see the film, and it turned out decent, so you have a decent short under your name. Just make sure you get the IMDB credit and maybe try to get a few bucks.

-- Michael


Interesting. Thanks for the info. Going to send you a separate PM on this topic

I agree that the writing credit thing is a good idea and it a nice litmus test of intentions.




My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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PKCardinal
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 2:52pm Report to Moderator
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Wow. I would be livid.

I guess I'd try and work out a deal with him. Definitely no shared writing credit. I'd want that part redone.

And the IMDB thing... that does NOT reflect well on this guy.

One thing... I would want to make it crystal clear to him that this was not acceptable behavior. Gotta try and protect the next writer he's thinking about doing this to. What he did was wrong, wrong, wrong. He needs to know that. I'd appeal to his desire to have a good name in the industry, because he doesn't want to get a bad rep.

That said, if he's willing to pay, I'd probably work with him (compensated) on going forward, if you like what he did. I wouldn't trust a word he said until he proved otherwise... but, I'd cautiously move forward if I could. Make it clear he screwed up. Make it clear this is a second chance. Don't stick around if he burns you again.

Just, wow.


PaulKWrites.com

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The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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Don
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 2:56pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Mark,

The fact that on IMDB - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13506800
Sunil Kulkarni is listed as soul writer makes it plagiarism, which is not a term I throw around lightly.  

Is his email - suniltheone ?  If so, he has a script on the site which will be removed.

- Don


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Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  February 5th, 2021, 7:51pm
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irish eyes
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 3:10pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Don

The email he sent me was nexgenfilms00@gmail.com

Mark


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jwent6688
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 3:41pm Report to Moderator
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I remember this script. I really liked it. This film not so much. He may not have paid for your script but he sure paid for for that pretentious intro logo unless heís a wizard at compositing. And someone needs to help him with his title cards. Clearly English is not his native language.

Acting was good. They couldíve turned the cars engine off for the outside shots. Muddied up the dialogue and sound levels are all over the place.


Iíve had this done to me 3 or 4 times in the past. I got pissed at first then calmed a bit. I think you have some good advice already. I would want my credit and then maybe some compensation. His YT account isnít monetized yet so thereís no add revenue coming in but heís close to being able to do so. If you donít like the film and donít want it on your resume you can contact YouTube but itís probably an uphill battle.

James.


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ReneC
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 4:01pm Report to Moderator
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It's a black and white issue for me. What they did was plain wrong. At the very least you should have sole writing credit, unless the changes they made are significant, like more than 30% of the script.

They're lucky the script wasn't already produced or sold or optioned. That would have squashed their film and wasted their efforts and money. You're lucky it wasn't in a contest or festival where a requirement is that it be unproduced.

I've given permission to film shorts in the past. I've sold others. Just yesterday I was contacted by someone looking to turn one of my shorts into a feature, and I had to decline because it was sold and the rights weren't mine anymore. Imagine if that had happened here.

Luck aside, get sole writing credit on IMDB. If they aren't willing to do that, I'd flag it to YouTube and have it banned as copyright infringement.


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James McClung
Posted: February 3rd, 2021, 4:43pm Report to Moderator
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The fact that he filmed the script without your permission and gave himself sole writing credit on IMDB is unacceptable. I think you definitely need to work out the credit situation on this existing project before you go any further. Me personally, I wouldn't want to work with the guy again. No sour grapes; I simply wouldn't be able to trust them fully or have an interest in working with someone who does business that way.

To be fair, the situation could've been much worse. I also haven't worked with the guy personally, so I can't speak to his conduct beyond what I've read. At the very least, he doesn't seem to be ducking you, so maybe you can work things out. I don't like what I'm hearing though.


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irish eyes
Posted: February 4th, 2021, 7:37pm Report to Moderator
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Thank you guys for all your responses..

We had some emails back and forth to which he claims that he tried to contact me before but won't provide proof.
Also claimed he couldn't add my name on IMDB because I didn't have an account, to which I sent him a few links of other shorts that had no problem adding me as sole writer.

Anyways, thanks to my buddy Mike Kospiah who decided to play middle man messaging both of us at the same time

The guy knew he was in the wrong.
We finally settled that I sent him an agreement to purchase the short and include my name on all credits associated with the short.

Story by Mark Moore  Co written by Mark Moore and Sunil   (I gave him that much as he made changes... for the worse in my opinion)


Thanks again and as fellow writers it's always good we have each other's backs


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eldave1
Posted: February 4th, 2021, 7:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from irish eyes
Thank you guys for all your responses..

We had some emails back and forth to which he claims that he tried to contact me before but won't provide proof.
Also claimed he couldn't add my name on IMDB because I didn't have an account, to which I sent him a few links of other shorts that had no problem adding me as sole writer.

Anyways, thanks to my buddy Mike Kospiah who decided to play middle man messaging both of us at the same time

The guy knew he was in the wrong.
We finally settled that I sent him an agreement to purchase the short and include my name on all credits associated with the short.

Story by Mark Moore  Co written by Mark Moore and Sunil   (I gave him that much as he made changes... for the worse in my opinion)


Thanks again and as fellow writers it's always good we have each other's backs


Well done.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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LC
Posted: February 4th, 2021, 10:00pm Report to Moderator
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On ya, Mark! Been following this, and watched the Short - thank goodness it was some very nice filmmaking regardless of the other malarky. Been in a similar situation myself in the past, and with the co-writer credit without my knowledge. Grrrr. Noticed the Boss gave him an earful too.  


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PKCardinal
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Sounds like it worked out. He needed to feel some pain so that he realizes its just easier to do it the right way in the first place.

I mean, how hard is it to ask permission? Most writers would be extremely accommodating.

Good job standing up for yourself and others.


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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khamanna
Posted: February 5th, 2021, 1:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from LC
regardless of the other malarky.


Oh, fancy word alert.


@Mark, I think I'd take it. It's probably wrong but for me it's a film credit after all. But that depends on the your own level, I think. I'm not selling shorts for the most part, I'm granting my permission for the most part so that's why that sort of thing would be okay with me.
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Matthew Taylor
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Well done for getting it sorted (and for getting a short made)

That sort of thing is never ok with me.
Imagine if you had sold that short to someone else, then this guy releases a version...


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LC
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Quoted from khamanna
...Oh, fancy word alert.

Ha! You're cracking me up again first thing in the morning, Kham.
I could have said bullshit but I like to set a gentler tone.  



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spesh2k
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Quoted from khamanna


Oh, fancy word alert.


@Mark, I think I'd take it. It's probably wrong but for me it's a film credit after all. But that depends on the your own level, I think. I'm not selling shorts for the most part, I'm granting my permission for the most part so that's why that sort of thing would be okay with me.


Yeah, I think that's the logic the filmmaker used when he did what he did. It doesn't make it right, but I know the guy personally, I've worked with him, had no issues getting paid for my services (I always ask for a portion up front)... and I had a nice chat with him about it. He seemed genuinely apologetic and freaked out about it -- I told him that he could get in serious trouble for something like this, so I played the middle man here between him and Mark and hopefully it works out.

I know he has previous IMDB credits, but he's not very experienced when it comes to stuff like this. He was blown away that I was willing to work to with him (for the right price, of course) and my credits, so that just goes to show his experience level. He's not very savvy and he's a bit clueless on how things work (not just in acquiring scripts, but just the biz in general). Again, doesn't make it right, and I made him very well aware of just how wrong it was even though it was only a short -- which was his defense. So, again, hopefully it works it out for Mark and hopefully the filmmaker learns from it and doesn't do it again.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from khamanna


Oh, fancy word alert.


@Mark, I think I'd take it. It's probably wrong but for me it's a film credit after all. But that depends on the your own level, I think. I'm not selling shorts for the most part, I'm granting my permission for the most part so that's why that sort of thing would be okay with me.


She flipped a coin to decide between malarky and balderdash


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k


Yeah, I think that's the logic the filmmaker used when he did what he did. It doesn't make it right, but I know the guy personally, I've worked with him, had no issues getting paid for my services (I always ask for a portion up front)... and I had a nice chat with him about it. He seemed genuinely apologetic and freaked out about it -- I told him that he could get in serious trouble for something like this, so I played the middle man here between him and Mark and hopefully it works out.

I know he has previous IMDB credits, but he's not very experienced when it comes to stuff like this. He was blown away that I was willing to work to with him (for the right price, of course) and my credits, so that just goes to show his experience level. He's not very savvy and he's a bit clueless on how things work (not just in acquiring scripts, but just the biz in general). Again, doesn't make it right, and I made him very well aware of just how wrong it was even though it was only a short -- which was his defense. So, again, hopefully it works it out for Mark and hopefully the filmmaker learns from it and doesn't do it again.

-- Michael


Good job!

Seems to be it all worked out fine with some valuable lessons learned


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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LC
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Quoted from eldave1
She flipped a coin to decide between malarky and balderdash

Bunkum.  
I love words.


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irish eyes
Posted: February 6th, 2021, 9:49am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Libby
malarky


I thought you were using that word just for me with it's apparent Irish roots

Thanks again everyone.
As Mike said he's a little clueless to say the least and will hopefully learn.

When the guy actually asked "Is this script even copyrighted?" as he stole it from the OWC

All will hopefully be resolved today


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LC
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Quoted from irish eyes


I thought you were using that word just for me with it's apparent Irish roots

Yes! Forgot to add that!  
...


Quoted from irish eyes
When the guy actually asked "Is this script even copyrighted?" as he stole it from the OWC

Really? Wow.





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