The Western Horror Show by Isaac Hostettler (ihoss13) - Horror, Western - Midway through the journey to knock over a Union gold shipment, two ill-fated thieves find themselves in a familiar, yet dark town, where they must confront their demons, or be consumed by the inferno that is civil war torn America. A wild west adaptation of Dante’s Inferno. 127 pages - pdf, format

I'm having a hard time getting into this script.

WAY too descriptive.  Simplify things.  You're writing a spec script; leave out the cut to, the dissolves, and the rambling SUPERS.

The story -- what I've gleaned from it so far -- has managed to interest me, but enough to where I'm willing to filter through all the technical gaffes?  Not so much.

Be sure to indicate when you change the name of a character.  In the very beginning the voice over is called FATHER.  When you open on your first image, the character's dialogue becomes SHERIFF.  You didn't stop to mention that change.  Why not just being the VO with SHERIFF (OS) instead of the two different names?

Leave out the incidentals.  This, to me, is a tell-tale sign of an inexperienced writer.  You make it a point to write out every single action, every blink, every pause, every movement.  And I'll say to you what I say to just about every other inexperienced screenwriter I talk to -- KEEP IT SIMPLE.  Give us just enough info to go on and nothing more.  For instance in your Sheriff's dialogue on page 1, you interrupt his lines with parentheticals "looks at his son," "looks at the land," and numerous more instances of such things.  Get rid of them.  They're okay if not over-used but otherwise, let your characters speak.  If something IMPORTANT happens while they're speaking and NECESSITATES a parenthetical, THEN you can add it in.

But again, my biggest complaint is the stage/camera/stylistic direction.  FREEZE FRAME, SUPER, blah blah blah.  You're the writer, not the director.  Tell your story.  Leave the stylistic devices to the people who will be filming it.  Otherwise, you're just making the reading process painful.

Clean it up.  Focus on telling us the story, first and foremost, in a clean, clear manner.  

Keep writing and best of luck -- Lon

EDIT:  One more thing.  Starting your script off in BLACKNESS is perfectly fine.  But once you're ready to get going, you always  -- always, always, always -- type FADE IN:  No FADE IN = sure sign of a novice, and a pro reader will just flip your script closed, toss it aside and move on to the next one.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, Lon.

First off, I’d like to thank you for the coverage you provided.

Took your advice and made some changes to the script. The updated script should be posted in a few days.  Shaved off a couple of pages. Took out the two “CUT TOs” (I guess I liked the idea of a straight up CUT TO:, in and out of the story, rather than a FADE IN: and FADE OUT)  But don’t worry, I changed them.  I’d hate to go against conventions.

Couldn’t find any “dissolves” though  (I think you made that one up).

Got rid of unnecessary “parentheticals”.  Took out some description, etc.

The reason why I introduce the characters (ex. Sheriff) firstly as their occupation or profession, rather than just their names, is mainly due to symbolism and how their characters will arc later on.  But thank you, I did change FATHER to SHERIFF, so it won’t be so confusing.  Thanks.  I guess I made the mistake of thinking that the (CONT’D) would imply that it was the same character.

You said: “my biggest complaint is the stage/camera/stylistic direction.  FREEZE FRAME, SUPER, blah blah blah.”

About those “Rambling SUPERS”.  Sorry, I can’t take those out. They’re important to the story and character development.  I know it’s a bit unconventional for a writer to superimpose technical style onto his/her script, but I assure I wrote them to develop the story, not to impede on some director’s ego.  I’m dealing with a lot of characters and it was a good way to introduce them quickly into the first act.  It also serves as misdirection and to establish the genre as a neo-spaghetti, as well as symbolism and bla, bla, bla, ect.  You get the point.  Although, I see where you are coming from, if you only read the first couple pages.   Judging a book by its cover, a tell-tale sign of an inexperienced “pro-reader”.  But no worries.  I’m going to test the SUPERS out and see how people respond to them.

But if you can’t get passed my intro and “rambling SUPERS” and you still want to read my script, try starting on page 9 where you see  “SUPER: The Western Horror Show”

Again, thanks for your coverage, Lon.  Appreciate it.


Regarding anybody else who was afraid of my first couple pages. Or who wasn’t inspired by my logline, here’s a short synopsis of the story. Maybe it will help to inform you further as to whether you want to read it.


_________
Synopsis

“They say it’s coming.” A spark has ignited in Specter. Fear and doubt lingers over the Utah territory, and conflict resonates in the hearts of its citizens. Purists and sinners draw their sides. Divided, the sickness of civil war looms over the souls of free men. Tension births rumor, rumor gives way to truth, and one truth is certain. “It is coming.”

Midway through the journey to knock over a Union gold shipment, Johnny Specter and his partner, Two-Fists, find themselves passing through a dark place; the prospecting town of Specter, which Johnny’s assassinated father chiseled from the untamed Utah wilderness. Down on their luck, they must lie, cheat or steal passage onto the train to San Francisco.

They have one day to round up the money or they will miss the train and “untold fortune”. However, rumors of confederate movements and disease lurks around every corner and down each alley. The Specter, Johnny remembers, is unfamiliar, divided and desperate, suffering under the wait of war. A reflection of the conflict resonating in the heart of Johnny (Dante).

Out of the frying pan and into the fire. Set in the Wild West, this satiric depiction of “Dante’s Inferno” is a suspenseful character driven neo-spaghetti that collides with an action adventure/apocalyptic horror. “Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid” get jumped by both “The Warriors” and “The Crazies” and then thrown into the “Heart of Darkness”.

The glut of western type characters, we meet along this hell bound journey, serves to establish this piece, firstly, in the western genre. But as they arc, they reinvent themselves as unique to the western/horror pigeonhole. Highly developed characters work to heighten horror but also to play their ill-fated (not supernatural) roles in Dante’s Inferno.

As we discover, the idea of Dante spans several protagonists, who share a similar fate. Fate being what brings them (Dante) together, but the Furies are what forces them through and around the circles of hell, nipping at their heels. Who will survive the train ride of terror? Who climbs free of the hell that can only be described as, “THE WESTERN HORROR SHOW”.
___________



Not sure if anybody has read my script, but any coverage would be helpful. Looking for someone to “kill my baby”. Please. I’m willing to do the same. Just let me know what you want me to read. Thanks.

Quoted from ihoss   I was only expecting to get some coverage (and that hasn't been easy).

The best way to get reads is to give them.  Full reads too, mind you.  I haven't gotten to your script yet because I've been busy and haven't really been doing any reads, but I'll admit, I'm hesitant because 1.) you never finished my script and 2.) it seems you've got a hefty amount of formatting problems, (including a first act that doesn't start until page 9?).  The last time I did a favor - giving someone a read of their feature after they only read my short - it turned out badly.  She went crazy on me and employed a lot of the sarcasm you've aimed at John.

Stuff like that, coupled with the lack of reads on your part, make people hesitant to crack open a 120+ script.

Just my two cents.

Yeah, Isaac, Dressel and everyone else here are completely correct in what they're saying.

Your script has major problems everywhere and will not be an easy read for anyone, based on that.

You're expecting reads and feedback but it doesn't look like you're offering any of that on your own to others.  It's the old quid pro quo deal here all the way, especially for "new" members.  You want reads and feedback, you've got to do alot of the same on your own before you can expect return favors.  And just because you do read and comment on other scripts, that does not guarrantee you the same in return unless you set that deal up beforehand, and as Dressel said, that doesn't always work either.

Hope this makes sense.

Yeah, I’m pretty new to this board, and I’m still figuring out how it works exactly.   I’ve been looking over other people’s scripts, but it’s hard to know who will actually do the same.  So I’ve been trying to be selective, with what I read. (Time consuming)  But if you’re willing to at least read past my opener, I’d be willing to finish your script.  I have some free time now, so I’ll get on it.

One thing that would be helpful would be to know what questions you have about your script.  What type of coverage you want me to focus on while I read through it.  I should probably do the same with my own script.  Just write out a list of questions that I feel are most important.  I skimmed through your discussion board and I don’t remember seeing any questions that may have been most import to you.   (Otherwise you may get a fairly generalized critique from me)


About my script:

I wrote the Intro as an opener (A montage with a few breaks).   I really only wanted it to last about 4-6 minutes screen time but it’s hard to write that out.  SUPERS: eat up a lot of paper, etc. (but I think their important)   But so far, the intro’s been a colossal failure.  I don’t think anybody’s even been able to read past it.  (I wanted to start out with a bang! Something new and edgy, but I think everybody who sees it automatically turns and runs.)  And without a doubt, if no one can read past it, I should change it, but I was hoping for someone to read to the end of the story, (or at least further than Lon) and then tell me it wasn’t necessary, before I change it.   That would be helpful.  Page 9 is where the opener ends, and I feel I’ve had enough coverage on it so far.  (So if I’m only going to get ten pages out of you, I would rather you just start at page 9 (Super: The western Horror show) .  Thanks.

You mentioned formatting problems. (could you give me an example?)

Isaac, who are you responding here to?

As I said, don't just assume that if you read someone's script, they'r going to return the favor in full.

And, you may think you know what you want feedback on, but everyone has a different style when it comes to feedback.  So, you basically have to take what you get and be grateful for it.

Thanks dreamscale, i working on that?  You want to do a swap too.  I do live near steamboat, you know.   I thought it was kind of cool that that was your script's location.  (haven't read it though) However, not sure you need anymore more feedback than what you've already gotten.  let me know if you do?

the earlier post was to dressel

Quoted from ihoss Yeah, I'm pretty new to this board, and I'm still figuring out how it works exactly.   I've been looking over other people's scripts, but it's hard to know who will actually do the same.  So I've been trying to be selective, with what I read. (Time consuming)  But if you're willing to at least read past my opener, I'd be willing to finish your script.  I have some free time now, so I'll get on it.

It's best to browse through the features and see who regularly posts.  If they regularly post, odds are they'll give your script a read in return.  It can't hurt to send them a PM either to verify if you want to make sure you get your return read.  BUT, for most, it's standard operating procedure that if someone takes time to read yours, you should read theirs.  My only hesitation was reading yours due to the fact that you only read half of mine and haven't really been present on the site besides that.

Quoted from ihoss One thing that would be helpful would be to know what questions you have about your script.  What type of coverage you want me to focus on while I read through it.  I should probably do the same with my own script.  Just write out a list of questions that I feel are most important.  I skimmed through your discussion board and I don't remember seeing any questions that may have been most import to you.   (Otherwise you may get a fairly generalized critique from me)

Ehh, I'd really just rather hear your general impressions of the script as they come, instead of outlining what I want to hear from you.  It works better that way.

Quoted from ihoss Page 9 is where the opener ends, and I feel I've had enough coverage on it so far.  (So if I'm only going to get ten pages out of you, I would rather you just start at page 9 (Super: The western Horror show) .  Thanks.

Ok, I'm going to start on page 9 then and treat that as the first page.


EDIT: Actually, now that I think of it, read the last thing I wrote on The Other Man's board and keep that in mind when you review.

Isaac, I assume you're referring to my Fade to White script, right? It actually takes place in Durango, Co for the vast majority of the script.  The intro does take place in Steamboat, and the last scene takes place in Phoenix.

Yeah, I really don't need anything on that script, although you're more than welcome to read it if you'd like, and I bet it would help with some of your formatting errors and the like.

I'll tell you what...I'll look over your script here, but in no way am I guaranteeing you I'll get all the way through it.  I'll try and throw out some advice that should get you on the right track.

I'll take your advice on PMing ect. Thanks

I can give you a general response. No prob.

If you start on page nine. keep in mind that i introduce nearly all the characters before 9.  So  as you start on page 9, you will be confused as to who they are.  oh well

thanks dreamscale.  yeah i only read   "EXT.  STEAMBOAT SPRINGS, CO. - EVENING "

I'll give it a read after Dressel

Again the previous post was to Dressel, sorry.

dreamscale

Yeah i was referring to "fade to white". Thats the only script i've seen of yours.  Would you rather me read another one?

Thanks for offering to look my script over.  It's slow at first, but it picks up in the second act. i promise.  

Thanks again.

Isaac, don't bother with any of my scripts (yes, there are more posted here), as I can tell already I'm not going to get very far with yours.  There are numerous issues/problems that make this a tough read, right off the bat.

I will provide some feedback that should help, and I'll read over Lon's feedback and see if I agree or not.

I'm Jeff, BTW.

OK, Isaac, as promised, here’re some helpful tidbits for you.  I don’t mean to be harsh or mean, but as always, I bring up EVERYTHING I see that’s either flat-out wrong, awkward, difficult, or, IMO, needs attention.

I’m starting at the very beginning, cause that’s where you really need to focus, as any reader is going to start there, and if it doesn’t work out of the gate, your script is doomed…both literally and figuratively.

First of all, everything Lon brought up is correct and great advice/feedback.  I know it's sometime hard to swallow, but he's dead on with his comments.

Let’s see what we’ve got…

I like your title.  It actually says a lot, sounds different, and has a lot of mystery behind it, without saying much at all.  Good start.

Page 1 – You don’t want to actually number Page 1.  Yes, it is definitely page 1, but don’t start with your numbering until Page 2.

If you really want to start with a SUPER, you need to start with something like “OVER BLACK”.  Just like a “FADE IN”, you have to start this way, or your script will come off as amateur hour and will most likely be scrapped before anyone even reads a single page.  May seem trivial or downright stupid, but you need to do it.

When you open with a SUPER, you’re entering risky territory, IMO, especially if your SUPER isn’t something simple like a locale.  This example is a tough one to comment on without knowing what it means, or why you’re doing it.  To me, it means nothing, and I have no idea if “Virgil” is a character in your script or someone we should know and be familiar with.  My advice here is lose it…but again, I’m not going to be reading the whole thing, so maybe I’m missing something.

Then, you go with a V.O., which again, isn’t something I’d recommend, as we’re still over a black screen, in theory.

And…you’re using a wrylie right out of the gate…another bad sign for sure…and this one is completely meaningless and unnecessary.  LOSE IT!

OK, so we finally get going with a “FADE IN” and a Slug.  I have issues with this opening Slug, and again, it’s a big red flag waving at me.  Here’s why…

First of all, “WESTERN VISTA” is kinda tough to visualize and probably really isn’t what you’re after here…or where we actually are.  One could argue that this is a very “visual” Slug and locale, but for others (and me, included) it’s something that I have to pause on to get a quick visual.  You follow it up with “UTAH (1850’s)”, and again, this brings in issues, because unless you reference this through a SUPER, dialogue, or an easy to recognize giveaway visual, no one is going to know this in a filmed version.  Don’t get me wrong…I love when writers take the time and have the details worked out in their head for such details…but…keep in mind that a visual medium is different than a written one.  IMO, if this stuff is important to the story (which it most likely is), you need a SUPER “telling” us this.

OK, let’s move on…

“Two silhouettes rise against the sunset, horse and riders RACING toward a summit.” – Your opening action/description line is very visual…I can see that you see this in your head and you want us to as well.  That’s great.  Totally cool…but…it just doesn’t work here out of the gate for several reasons.  It reads awkwardly and again, causes me to pause to really understand what it is you’re after here with this “shot”.  After reading it a few times, I think you’re saying that 2 riders are on 1 horse, but it’s not crystal clear, IMO…at all.  I think “toward” should be “towards” in this sentence.  But the main issue is that you’re totally trying to direct this shot, and you don’t want to be doing that so blatantly.  It doesn’t matter in the big picture. It adds nothing to the story here.  If you have a shitload of money, are an industry “darling”, or are going to be directing this, no problem, but otherwise, don’t get in the habit of doing this kind of shit.  It doesn’t belong in a spec script.

The next sentence should really be on its own line, as it’s kind of a new idea...or more likely…something that again, doesn’t need to be in here, especially right out of the gate.

Another V.O. that makes no sense at this point, as it means ZERO to us as readers.  We haven’t met the “Sheriff” yet, and the line itself does nothing for anyone, as far as I can see.

“The shapes converge, stopping inside the spherical inferno.” – Another very visual, well thought out line, but again, it means nothing to the story and at this point, you’re pissing readers off and losing them because of it.  And actually, it makes me question whether or not there are 2 riders on 1 horse, or 2 riders on separate horses.

WOW…now we go to an actual line of dialogue, but I bet it’s supposed to be another V.O.  And it’s another line that means nothing to us…and doesn’t even really make any sense to me, at least.  The inclusion of the comma here makes it read oddly and most likely, incorrectly.

“A Silver .65 Cal prototype Henry repeating rifle rest on the SHERIFF’s shoulder. 40s. On his chest is a badge. He stares at the wheel of fire sinking into the endless west.” – ARGH…so many things wrong here…listen…this is tough to convey but I’ll give it my best shot.  You haven’t intro’d any characters yet…assumedly because we really haven’t gotten a clear picture of them, based on the setup of the shot…and that’s a BIG problem in itself, but we won’t go there now.   The focus of this sentence and “shot” is your subject, and it’s the weapon being carried.  But I have no clue what this exact weapon is supposed to be, so you’ve lost me with the exact name of the gun (it doesn’t matter).  “rest” should be “rests”.  Finally, you properly intro this character, but it’s buried at the end of the line and it’s not properly done (you can’t have a description “40’s” as a “sentence”, and when you give details like age, etc, they need to come right after the character’s name).

“On his chest is a badge.” – poor sentence..passive…poorly worded.

Next line, although, again, very visual and well thought out, doesn’t work as written.  First of all, it needs to be on its own line, as it’s a new thought…or shot.  But the main problem is that again, you’re directing a shot that has nothing to do with your story and isn’t your place to decide it should be in here.

Then you have a line of dialogue from a character that you haven’t intro’d yet.  You can’t do that.  You have to intro your characters first, before they start speaking.  The name you’ve chosen to use “Son” is weak and reads very poorly.

So, now I’m wondering if this early V.O. is actually meant to be the Sherriff actually speaking the lines “O.S.” as opposed to “V.O.”.  I’m confused and you don’t want your readers confused on Page 1.  BIG PROBLEM!

“The SON, 13, looks over at his father, attentively. The sheriff takes a long sigh, and OL-SILVER moves to his lap.” – Now I’m even more confused.  Where is the Son and Sheriff in proximity to each other?  Are they on the same horse? Are they next to each other on their own horses?  No clue.  The 2nd sentence here, again, needs to be on its own line, as it’s a completely new thought and a new shot of a different character.  I have to assume that “OL-SILVER” is the weapon you described earlier and is in the Sherriff’s arms, but the way you wrote it, it’s far from clear.

The Sheriff’s dialogue is again not good.  It means absolutely nothing to us.  I reality, it comes off as something a father would not be saying to his son, as I bet he’s said it before...or why is he saying it to him now all of a sudden?  When you us an ellipsis, you don’t skip a space after it and go with a new sentence, complete with a capital letter.

Last line on the page, and I’m done.  Poorly written…overly written…awkwardly written.

Page 2 - So, I lied…I’m not done.  I read onto Page 2, and now I see that you’ve totally incorrectly named your characters even.  “Son” is actually “Johnny”.  Always name your characters properly and immediately.  You can’t stray form that.  In your character list, you’re going to find that you now have an extra character, which is a problem.

Very cliché with the “Sherriff” (AKA “Father”) giving his gun (“OL SILVER”) to his son. We’ve all seen this type of thing way too many times.

“  A bullet THUMPS into the Sheriff’s chest, fallowed by the echo, which CRACKS LIKE THUNDER.” – Obviously, “fallowed” should be “followed”.  “CRACKS LIKE THUNDER” is something people will either like or hate.  Personally, I hate it, as it’s cliché and overly dramatic, and obviously written for the effect, but for me, the effect is a negative.

I’m going to have to stop here, cause the next foolishness is way overboard, incorrectly written, and most likely, the biggest reason no one is getting to the beginning of your script.

So, Isaac, again, I don’t mean to come off as an ass, an arse, an A-Hole, or a Dick.  This is what I see here and I want to draw your attention to it. The beauty of writing is that everything is personal opinion and some peep’s Heaven, is other peep’s Hell.  You never know.  You definitely have a vision here and that’s a HUGE positive.  IMO, you need to reel it in and write your story so that we can see exactly what it is that you have to tell.

Hope this helps and doesn’t piss you off.  Take care.

It appears John's left the building, Jeff.  Now it just looks like you're talking to yourself.  

Issac, are you going to respond to Jeff's thorough analysis?  I have to be honest, you haven't taken criticism all that well yet, and to see that you're not taking the time to respond to Jeff makes me anxious to continue reading your script.  Because to be totally truthful, both Lon and Jeff are right: this is going to be tough to get through.  And I want to know that if I'm going to take my time to look through the script that it's going to be worth it.  But if you're going to treat me like Jeff, I'm probably not even going to waste my time.

Sorry Dressel, I’ve been off the board for a while.  I had some things come up, other projects, etc..  And I was hoping some time away from this one would give me some perspective on how to deal with it.   But I have definitely been reading everyone’s comments and I’ll absolutely accept any coverage your willing to offer.  If you want to give it a quick read (not worrying about typos, formatting, technical, etc.. ) and concentrate on story/flow/beat that would be what I’d prefer.  Doesn’t have to be in depth or anything, I mainly want someone to read it from start to finish and give me some general perspective on the Acts.  What worked or didn’t.  

If your not sure, here’s where the acts start:  if you don’t include the intro, Act one starts on page 9 1/2.  Act two starts at just before 46.  And the third act starts on about 85.  Maybe that will help you let me know which is the weakest, etc..  Should you choose to read the script.

Yeah, John was mostly giving me generalized career advice. (no real examples of his criticism or advice of how to make it better)  

And if your still listening John, don’t worry, I’ve written low budget scripts before and I am currently working on several others (comedies mostly).  And to answer your question of why I’m putting “the western horror show” on simply scripts.  Well I’ll say it again, to get some feedback on it.  It’s a complicated script and it’s the one I needed the most help with (that’s the reason).  I’m not here to market it.  That’s not a very realistic marketing strategy anyways.   And I hope you find something to read that will entertain and hold your attention longer.  Not that I wasn’t thankful for your critique.  Thanks again.

Also, I’d like to thank everyone who has reminded me to take Lon’s advice.  Trust me, I have.  Weeks ago.   I’ve really been reworking/rewriting/and thinking about scraping the entire first 9 ½ pages altogether.  If it doesn’t work it doesn’t work.   It takes about 5-10 days to get anything posted on here, so even the changes that I have already decided to incorporate, will take some time.   So coverage on the beginning is appreciated, but not what I’m currently looking for the most help on.

I’ve looked through your coverage Jeff and thank you, it’s been very helpful.  Sorry, I should have gotten back to you sooner.  

It’s rare to get coverage that systematic.  I don’t think I’ve ever gotten that much coverage on that amount of material before.  Not even in four years of film school or table reads.  But that’s why I put my scrip up here.  

Don’t worry about being “harsh or mean”, I’ve taken my fair share of lashings and criticism over the years.   Trust me, I need an editor not someone to make me feel special.  And you’re right, people too often sugarcoat their coverage, and it’s rarely as helpful as someone just telling them the way it is.  Thanks.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt on most of what you said and not disagree.   I’ll only respond to a few things that I didn’t fully understand or agree with.  

You said:  “When you open with a SUPER, you’re entering risky territory, IMO, especially if your SUPER isn’t something simple like a locale.  This example is a tough one to comment on without knowing what it means, or why you’re doing it.  To me, it means nothing, and I have no idea if “Virgil” is a character in your script or someone we should know and be familiar with.  My advice here is lose it…but again, I’m not going to be reading the whole thing, so maybe I’m missing something.

You’re probably right about Virgil’s quote at the beginning and the sequential SUPERs.  They might be a little misleading.  But like you said, you’re not supposed to understand that fully until later on in the story (In fact, the entire first act is supposed to act as misdirection for the second).  But if you’re interested in the story, the first SUPER serves to establish the character of Virgil (The Roman poet who leads Dante through hell).  The first thing we see is a quote from the “Aeneid” by Virgil (which is a theme).  And then the next thing we hear is the voice of the Sheriff, who plays Virgil in my adaptation of Dante’s inferno.  And then, him giving advice to Johnny, who plays Dante.  If I hadn’t spelled that out, people may not have understood that that was a theme. (hard to say though)

You said: you’re using a wrylie right out of the gate…another bad sign for sure…and this one is completely meaningless and unnecessary.  LOSE IT!

I think you’re referring to “(hardy voice)” here.  Not sure why it’s a bad sign to know why the sheriff has a hardy voice.  If it were me I’d want to know what that voice sounded like.  Is there’s some unwritten rule about parentheticals I don’t know about?  Or are you stating that that isn’t the proper way to tell the audience that he has a hardy voice?  Or am I just limiting my acting potential?  Sorry, not sure what you meant by that.

Regarding dialogue that’s O.S:  that usually only applies to a character that is on the set or location, that we can literally hear O.S. through diegetic sound. (There are exceptions though).   But, over Black doesn’t count.  That’s usually always V.O. if it has to be voice recorded outside of a scene, where an actor actually can’t speak that audible line in the scene.  (Sorry, I originally had over black: but I took it out after Lon’s comments.  Not sure why.  Might have thought it was implied. Nope.   But I think you understood that it was Over black) Anyways, after I fade in: now that’s debatable as O.S. or V.O..  But either way, it’s not something to get held up on.   That debate of has been going on forever and no one’s ever going to win it.  I can give you some examples if you don’t believe me.

I’m not sure why my slug, western Vista is hard to visualize.  What’s wrong with a very visual slug?   A vista is simply a scenic or panoramic view of a location.  The location being Utah, which is recognizable and unique to, say, an African vista.  And I know you cant see (1850’s) and that must seem expositional, but you can see 1850’s in the clothing characters wear, and that there are no roads or power lines, etc.   It’s easier to just say (1850’s) than to describe every little detail (while not limiting a directors options for location).  Your right, using a super would definitely be more explanatory. But if I add any more SUPERs I think people’s heads are going to explode.  But I’ll definitely think that one over as well as the other things you mentioned.

Again, thanks for your coverage.  I’m definitely trying to reel this one in and make it the best it can be.

Hey Isaac, welcome back.  You missed a shitstorm on your thread yesterday.  Thankfully, Bert cleaned it up and deleted all the BS.  I won’t even go into what it was all about, cause it was quite irritating to say the least.

I’m pretty detailed, and I see an awful lot that others either don’t or don’t care about.  I’m a perfectionist and I guess that’s either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you view it.  My aim I always to help and point things out that usually don’t come up otherwise.

The thing with your opening SUPER is that it is confusing out of the gate, and the fact that your character “Virgil” is referred to by numerous names in your first few pages alone.  IMO, that’s an issue.  Obviously, you can have your characters refer to people anyway they want to and they can use various names/nicknames…BUT…you as the writer, can’t.  You need to intro each character the way you’re going to refer to them throughout the script *of course, you can intro a character by his full name, and then only use his first or last from there on out, but any other references are incorrect and only serve to muddy the waters.  Both the Sherriff and his son, Johnny are referred to by numerous names within your first 4 pages, and again, that’s incorrect and a problem you’ll want to address.

As for wrylies (parentheticals), here’s the deal, IMO.  They should only be used sparingly, when necessary, otherwise, they’re irritating, a waste of 2 lines, and a definite form of directing that you don’t need to get into.  If someone speaks in an accent and you want that to be apparent immediately, by all means use one, but for something like this, it’s a red flag of things like this to continue throughout.  If you think about it, you could use a wrylie everytime a new character speaks, and/or everytime anyone speaks in a raised voice/etc.  Botom line is to avoid them unless you really need one and it adds to the read.  This one does not in any way.

Regarding the V.O.’s or O.S. dialogue, the issue is that you never properly intro’d your character who’s speaking V.O., and IMO, he’s actually onscreen when he speaks his 2nd line of V.O. dialogue, although we most likely aren’t seeing him speak.  BUT, again, this is another issue, IMO, because you’re trying way too hard to direct exactly how this scene looks and plays out.  It’s just not your job in a spec script to go into that detail as it makes for a confusing and sometimes irritating read.  Hope that makes sense.

The initial Slug, “WESTERN VISTA” is an issue to me because of exactly how you defined what it is.  It’s fine for an establishing shot, and would most likely be correct in a shooting script, but here, in a spec script, once your characters are intro’d and we are with them and watching them interact and speak, it no longer applies.

It is a very visual Slug and I applaud any and all visual writing, but here, IMO, it just muddies the water again.  IMO if you’re using your locale as an important “character”, you need to use a SUPER so your readers (and viewers) know exactly where we are and when we’re there.

You know that everything is a personal opinion, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s coming from a Pro reader, a working Director or Producer, or anyone else.  No one opinion is always right or else we wouldn’t have such abominations and incredible money losers like…well, how about like Whiteout, for instance…or Cutthroat Island.  Ah, damn, you know what I’m talking about…take everything you hear with a few shakers of salt and decide what makes the most sense to you, once you take it all in.

Best of luck with this.  I’m sorry I couldn’t read further and actually get into your story.  Take care.

Hey Jeff

Well, I’m glad I missed the sh!tstorm, but I’m guessing they happen from time to time. I usually try to filter that stuff.  It can be tuff not to get sucked into those things though.    

From what I’ve experienced, perfectionists make the best editors.  Without a doubt.   And good authors, as long as they can still take a step back from their work and see it objectively.  But that pretty much applies to everyone.  From my own experience, I know I can get the tunnel vision sometimes, when I try to make things too perfect.

Thanks for clearing up the wrylies.  Yeah, when Lon told me to lose them, I literally went through and kill about half of them and then reposted.  But even still, I can probably stand to get rid more.  I’ll definitely go back through and get rid of any that aren’t completely necessary.   It’s hard to see that unnecessary stuff in one’s own work I’ll admit.  It’s funny, I was just telling Dressel the same thing. “Get rid of the perentheticals.”  I should listen to my own advice.

Ok, I’m reading you laud and clear on the V.O./O.S.  now.  I’ll clear up character names and try not to direct as much.  It will be tough though, most of my experience is on productions, not as much as only a writer.  But I’ll definitely try and take that back seat as a writer, or at least try and become come more creative (or at least more invisible) with how I deal with direction.  Thanks for clearing that up.

Regarding that first slug, it would be clearer if I did that initial shot as an establishing and then do a continuous cut closer to the characters.   I’d agree with you.  I think I can clear that up and also use that added perspective to help trim up the rest of the script too.

Haha…  “Cutthroat Island”.   I had almost completely forgotten about that one.  Thanks for reminding me.  No but honestly, we should take a moment of silence and remember “The Alamo.”

…Thanks for the advice, Jeff.  Appreciate it.

Isaac, this is your baby, so you're the boss and you make the decisons.

Just becuase someone recommends something, doesn't mean it's right...many times you'll get downright horrendous advice that literally makes no sense.  You have to pick and choose what makes sense and what you agree with.

The only person you should listen to 100% of the time is me     HaHa!

Serioulsy, though, keep in mind that you don't personally know anyone here, nor do you know their background or level of expertise.

At the end of the day, we're all trying to help, but it's completely up to you what you accept as gospel and what you spit out as pure shit.

Best of luck with your writing...