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I found this link and it has all the words people screw up, I've recently found out that my use of then/than is well terrible and this site has helped me in the error of my ways. (Thanks for pointing this out Tomson)
Hopefully it can help others who may have some grammar problems that they would like to correct in the future.
Thanks Wesley, I found the link very helpful. If any of you guys keep misspelling particular words, or if you don't understand why a word is spelled the way it is, I suggest you try the link!
Hey, great link. I’m glad to see they included some scolds toward one of my biggest pet peeves in life -- businesses that deliberately butcher our language to make a buck, such as “KarmelkornTM.”
There’s a business I drive by all the time called “Men’s Wearhouse.” Get it? It’s a clothing store. They use “‘wear’ house” instead of the correct “warehouse.” Clever, huh? The only problem is that they contribute to our country’s enormous illiteracy problem. Businesses like this make me sick to my stomach.
I hate when people complain about grammar and can't spell words like the right in their screenplays. I can find most spelling errors in screenplays but grammar is just not my thing.
An article like this will do wonders for me but I still have no clue what certain Then/Than sentances would be so mostly I'll continue to guess with that word.
They never complained about my grammar in high school English class, I won a freaking award in that so that shows how much Canada cares about the future. I guess I was always good at reading and writing essays on what I read. (Plus I write really tiny so half the time my teachers would just say please write bigger next time.)
Anyways if this helps you as much as it did me I'm happy.
An article like this will do wonders for me but I still have no clue what certain Then/Than sentances would be so mostly I'll continue to guess with that word.
Just think of “then” as a point in time, as in “now and then” or “then and there.” It has other uses but it’s primarily used as a point in time.
“Than” is kind of like the word “rather.” It can also be a point in time such as, “no sooner did I start to pull out of my driveway than a car drove by.” But, primarily, “than” is used to show a preference. For example; “I enjoy reading scripts with good spelling and grammar more than ones with rampant misspellings.”
Words like these are tricky because they often derive from the same source words and have similar meanings.
The one that bugs me is “affect” and “effect.” An “effect” is usually a noun; the result of something. It’s only used as a verb to note an accomplishment, such as, “I hope this thread will effect real change in some of the grammar issues with some of the scripts at this site.”
“Affect” is always a verb. The difference between “affect” and the verb form of “effect” is like the difference between cause and effect. One causes while the other is a produced result. Examples:
“It affects me in a very emotional way to read a good script.”
“This script has a very unique effect on the reader’s emotions.”
Hey, great link. I’m glad to see they included some scolds toward one of my biggest pet peeves in life -- businesses that deliberately butcher our language to make a buck, such as “KarmelkornTM.”
There’s a business I drive by all the time called “Men’s Wearhouse.” Get it? It’s a clothing store. They use “‘wear’ house” instead of the correct “warehouse.” Clever, huh? The only problem is that they contribute to our country’s enormous illiteracy problem. Businesses like this make me sick to my stomach.
Kind of like "Kwik Karwash"? There was a carwash in Richmond where I used to live and that always bothered me.
But other than that, I, too, have a question. When do you use the form "on to" and "onto"?
Literacy can be a problem. Illiteracy is another problem. Dyslexia is whole different issue.
Different cultures use of the same language does not necessarily mean they share the same meaning and indeed, the subordinate form of language known as ‘slang’ is a good example here.
American forms of ‘English’ as both written and spoken differ quite remarkably from British ‘English’.. Americans have slang terms for everything and the problem with this is these slang terms become assimilated into the language so much so that people use them when they are writing thereby subordinating the use of the correct written form for the slang form..
There are a plethora of examples one could choose to illustrate this argument but I have a few here I will mention:
“A ball park figure”
I know what the above means but it is a cultural definition employing slang, probably from sports, and can sometimes be misinterpreted unless people understand or agree to what the supposed figure is.. And why a ball park?
There are many more.. I find the American slang for terms and definitions very interesting but equally they annoy me.. They can be fascinating and baffling at the same time..
I acquired a book of American slang terms for reference and it makes for a fascinating read..
Here’s an old one for you:
“Grody to the max” – what the Hell is this?
I read some of this slang in scripts on SimplyScript and scratch my head wondering what they all mean? I reckon it’s probably alright to place this kind of slang in dialogue, would give verisimilitude but to write slang in scene descriptions and or action is unforgivable.. Using slang is an easy way out in my opinion, it is not a substitute for ‘proper’ English form and or style..
Just thought I would mention ‘slang’ seeing this thread has opened a discussion regarding the correct use of ‘grammar’ in English..
Don’t get me wrong, I do find the use of ‘slang’ fascinating if it is used in the correct context and in the right place..
The English have regional variations with ‘slang’ and would definitely confuse the American reader or viewer if they heard some of the language spoken in my country.
For example: Scouce slang spoken in Liverpool
Alright, der la..
This actually translates into “Alright there lad”
Cockney:
“Awite, mat-e” the ‘t’ sounds like ‘mate sounds like ‘ate’ but with a silent ‘t’
Weird..
Cockney slang spoken in London uses rhyming slang which can be weird. A lot of British Gangster films set in London use Cockney Slang:
Apples and Pears = Stairs
China Plate = Mate
Rosie Lea = Tea (drink variety)
Dog and Bone = Telephone
You get the picture.
Other regional accents such as those from Yorkshire are very pronounced and are unique in their own right..
So the English have their own unique forms or ‘slang’ and tend to be both national and regional.
Because of my job, I've had to learn American English. You'd think it'd be relatively easy, but the differences go much deeper than a few spelling deviations.
Anything with a double L becomes one L. Travelling becomes traveling etc. That's easy enough.
The letter S becomes a Z (pronounced 'zee' not 'zed') in words like organised, analysed, and civilised, but not words like rise.
Kerb is spelt curb. A pavement is a sidewalk. A catapult is a slingshot (thanks bert)
These are all things I can handle, but it gets much more complicated the deeper you go.
In England, we say 'I walked towards him'. In America they say 'I walked toward him'. The same goes for 'backward' and 'backwards'. I think.
The most annoying one I've seen was in a screenwriting article I read recently:
"Most everyone knows that..."
Most? You mean almost. I've heard this one a lot. Is this correct usage of the word 'most' in American English?
Kevan's right about the slang too. It happens in England and the U.S. The word 'innit' for example. Gangster rappers are great butchers of the language. "We be all up in this biaatch".
Cockney slang is probably the most baffling for an outsider. I watched 'Lock Stock...' with my German girlfriend and she didn't have a clue what was going on. Her English is pretty good, but cockney's like another language.
To complicate matters, the African-American subculture in the Untied States has an American-English variant called Ebonics, which only serves to help them further segregate themselves from the American society. Ebonics is what is used a lot in rap "songs" and by people who make a vain attempt to fit in.
mac daddy = The pimp-meister, the king of the streetwalkers, God to all bitches, possessor of the blingest of bling-bling. The mac daddy is the man who means everything (and the only man who really means anything) to his ladies of the night.
phone stamina = The total amount of time one can manage being on the phone with someone.
yoink = the tranfer of ownership from one person to another. Legal stealing.
dinner whore = girl who dates for free meals and expensive gifts
jump off = something that is hip, chic, or in fashion
word = 1) well said 2)said in a agreement 3) can be used as a greeting, hey whats up
A versatile declaration, originating (more or less) in hip-hop culture.
"Word" has no single meaning, but is used to convey a casual sense of affirmation, acknowledgement, agreement, or to indicate that something has impressed you favorably.
Its usage among young blacks has been parodied ad nauseam among clueless suburban whites.
word up = A greeting that's also a question! - mainly informal, used as an all in one 'hey, how you doing, hows things, whats going on'. It mean ''what's up?'' or ''what's the word on the street?''. Basically ''What's been happening?''
word out = marks the end of a conversation and your departure. opposite of word up.
That's a very tiny sampling of the thousands of poor, innocent, bastardized words on this site from not only the ebonic culture, but others as well.
In England, we say 'I walked towards him'. In America they say 'I walked toward him'. The same goes for 'backward' and 'backwards'. I think.
No, either works for us.
Quoted from Dr.Mabuse
The letter S becomes a Z (pronounced 'zee' not 'zed') in words like organised, analysed, and civilised, but not words like rise.
Nope, we also spell it with an s or a z in the cases you showed."organization" we always spell with a "z" and civilized is usually spelled with a z here, but you can find either. It's not that strange, we really don't care too much.
Quoted from Dr.Mabuse In England, we say 'I walked towards him'. In America they say 'I walked toward him'. The same goes for 'backward' and 'backwards'. I think.
No, either works for us.
Actually, I think the "walked toward" is the proper way to do it, but since we Americans put proper English at the bottom of the barrel, nobody really questions it.
I hear people say it both ways. I myself am more inclined to say "I walked towards him" but it's not as strict as Dr.Mabuse and Kevan apparently think.
A few years ago there was even some people (teachers, politicians) in California I believe that wanted schools to teach ebonics so that white and other minority children would understand blacks better. That legislation did not pass.
That was probably good.
I remember the threat of that in Oklahoma as well. I made fun of the very idea. I thought, "So you's be wanting to show me how I's gone ta talk to the bruthas in da hood." Yeah. Real useful. Here's a better idea. Refine the English they already speak to that which has been spoken for centuries.
Martin, in America, it is indeed considered correct usage to use “most” in place of “almost” as in your example. In fact, some dictionaries offer “almost” as one of three or four adverb forms of the word “most,” though the word “almost” almost certainly derived from a condensed version of the phrase “all or most.” America has such a diversity of people and, well, so much butchery and slang that it’s not so surprising that there should be so many exceptions to the rules.
I hate the word “cuss” instead of “curse” because it sounds like some old country bumpkin slang from some uneducated hick but where I grew up, it was regularly used. America’s history is filled with people who just didn’t have access to conventional schools at the time. Not too many proper English teachers tromping through the wilderness in the frontier days -- haha.
I feel this way about “all right” and “alright.” In America, technically, “alright” is not a real word. It’s a slang. The correct form is “all right.”
“Toward/backward” versus “towards/backwards;” either is technically correct though I prefer them without the “s.” Why add an unnecessary letter? That’s my view.
Kevan, great point about the slang. I support the use of slang to some degree because I think it’s natural for a language to grow and evolve. After all, in my opinion, it’s all about communicating. If there’s a better way, I say let it be. That’s why I support the Southern slang, “ya’ll,” a contraction for “you all.” It effectively distinguishes between the singular and plural versions of “you,” which are otherwise indistinguishable. But you are absolutely correct that there should be limits. In my opinion, if a slang improves the clarity a language, welcome aboard. If it’s just a bunch of gibberish that some butcher thinks is cool then it’s just a part of the problem.
Thanks, you guys, for enlightening me about some of the British lingo. I love the way you guys talk, both your various accents as well as your sentence construction.
P.S. “Grody to the max” is especially hilarious to me because it was contrived by my particular generation -- haha. “Max” is in reference to the word “maximum,” meaning “to the greatest extent.” “Grody” is gibberish referring to anything “gross” and deriving as a corruption of the word “grotesque.”
Sean, “onto” is a combined form of the prepositions “on” and “to.” In other words, it’s a slang - one that has gained acceptance as its own word. Dating back to the early 18th century, in this case, it’s a slang that makes a lot of sense because they’re both propositions and so regularly used together. Both usages are correct and interchangeable.
What is the difference between it's and its or is their one?
It's stands for it is just like you said. Its is possessive.
This thing is great. I finally learned the difference between affect and effect. Apparently I have a British touch to my writing as well since I tend to use towards instead of toward.
What is the difference between it's and its or is their one? I've always just used it's if it means it is and its when it's doesn't make sense.
Ms Words grammar check always says to change it's to its and its to it's so it really confuses matters.
MS Word has no idea what it's talking about most of the time with grammar. Its dictionaries appear to be very limited in what it can actually decipher. While I sometimes take its suggestions, it's usually wrong, so I usually have my mouse cursor trained on its correction window's "ignore" button.
This has been not only a Word commentary, but also a big example of how to correctly use "its" versus "it's". James' explanation above is absolutely correct.
As for me, I grew up in Oklahoma watching Doctor Who and Fawlty Towers on PBS, so my English has been an American/English cross forever.
Where I work about 80 percent of the customers are black, and I hear a lot of the ebonics. I've come to understand a lot of it, but sometimes a new piece of slang is thrown at me that I don't understand so I just smile and hope that it's nice. I must have looked pretty stupid one time because a guy said, "She's cute" referring to me when I was smiling at something I didn't understand. Oh well...
Dang! Why do I always end up tell a story? It must be an age thing. Sorry...
Anyway, I use "toward" instead of "towards". LOL
Cindy
Award winning screenwriter Available screenplays TINA DARLING - 114 page Comedy ONLY OSCAR KNOWS - 99 page Horror A SONG IN MY HEART - 94 page Drama HALLOWEEN GAMES - 105 page Drama
What's the difference between a comma and a semicolon? Like always MS Word tells me to put a semicolon where my commas are.
It basically says to only use a comma when the word then or and comes after it. And for everything else it says to use a semicolon but it also says to use a semicolon for and then which confuses the whole thing.
I read an article saying the basic art of getting it right is the semicolon should be used when connecting different sentances and the comma for similar ones.
You know they never taught this in school, I honestly never seen a semicolon until I started using computers.
i try not to fret about it too much. my MS Word processor does most of the clean up...if theres anything left... well its really not worth fretting about.. as long as its not a complete mess...im good. its the story that counts
i try not to fret about it too much. my MS Word processor does most of the clean up...if theres anything left... well its really not worth fretting about.. as long as its not a complete mess...im good. its the story that counts
This is the excuse writers with poor spelling/grammar skills always use to justify their poor skills. The excuses why grammar is irrelevant are many:
1) It’s the story that’s important.
Yes, and that’s why one would think that it would be important for you to convey it in a well communicated way so that readers could fully grasp your meaning and intent.
2) I’ll proofread it later.
Okay. Hope you get rereads.
3) I don’t have spell check.
Spell check can’t check the correct spelling of a word that is used in the incorrect context. And grammar check (which is far less used than spell check) can’t be expected to catch everything. The spell and grammar check functions on the programs are intended to be used as tools, not excuses for illiteracy. A writer who doesn’t care about spelling and grammar is like a musician who refuses to use chords. Sure you can still put notes progressively together but you’ll never produce the full sound.
I’ll never understand these writers who think spelling and grammar aren’t important.
Wesley,
According to Cliffs Quick Review on Writing: Grammar, Usage, and Style, people have more questions about the comma than any other punctuation mark. In fact, the comma is a subject of debate among editors. The comma can easily be correctly used to the point of annoyance and disruption. The trend is toward trying to keep them down.
Some common usages of commas are listing and after introductory clauses or phrases.
Example, Listing:
I need a 35 mm camera, film, a crane, a helicopter, a dolly, a crew, actors, etc.
After an introductory clause:
To make my movie, I’m going to need all the things I just listed.
Generally, the semicolon is used to join independent clauses that are closely related. For example:
I watched “V for Vendetta” last night; now I’m in love with Hugo Weaving.
Semicolons are also commonly used to list instead of a comma when the items listed have commas in them. For example:
The film crew included Wesley, the writer; George, the director; Greg, the director of photography; and Mike Shelton, world renowned Karaoke singer.
Sentences separated by a semicolon should be related. Semicolons should never be used for sentence fragments. Also (and I’m guilty of this), semicolons should always be outside quotation marks.
The colon is generally used to introduce lists, as I’ve done throughout this post. It’s also used to introduce a quote or an explanation.
Example, quote introduction:
Keep this in mind: anything worth doing is worth doing right.
Explanation introduction:
It’s not a good idea to get drunk when you’re wearing high heels: it greatly increases the odds that you’ll fall down the stairs.
And of course, the colon has the famous usages of notating time (3:00 a.m.) and separating volumes of works (Mathew 21:21).
Of course, these are just a few of many usages. The truth is that they are all very closely related and that often the usages are interchangeable. I’m just discussing some of the more prominent usages. I hope this helps in some way. I may not be the best explainer.
Thanks Breanne, I appreciate your insight on the subject matter. The only way to fix problems is to ask, I'll probably butcher then/than until the end of time but at least I've learned a few new things.
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers occur in a word. The olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?
i try not to fret about it too much. my MS Word processor does most of the clean up...if theres anything left... well its really not worth fretting about.. as long as its not a complete mess...im good. its the story that counts
I get picky when I'm typing fast and a read line appears. However I've come up with a theory while recently. I think that when writers used type writers a lot of care into the work. Making a mistake is a biznitch and if you want to make a copy you have to put a peice of carbon paper behind the paper and then tissue paper behind that.
But with all that on the line, you have to think about what you're going to write. You have to think about where the conversations going to lead. Well I tried using an old type writer for my garage, for an essay I had in school. And I have to say I wrote a lot better than I did on a computer.
I'm going to try typing a screenplay on a typewriter one of these days. And see what effect it has on my writing.
My point, which you evidently didn’t get, is that you in fact cannot care about the story if you do not care about spelling/grammar. They are interconnected. You probably didn’t get it because you evidently don’t believe in grasping anything that you don’t like to read (as evidenced by the fact that you quote me in bold while deliberately cutting out the explanation of my point.)
The point is that your story is best told with both a good story and good spelling/grammar. Writers like you, who don’t think it’s important, are lazy writers. If you’re too lazy to care to tell your story in the best way to communicate it because it’s too much work, then one can assume your story suffers from the same laziness.
Good writing means both good storytelling as well as good communication skills. The two cannot be separated.
My point, which you evidently didn?t get, is that you in fact cannot care about the story if you do not care about spelling/grammar. They are interconnected. You probably didn?t get it because you evidently don?t believe in grasping anything that you don?t like to read (as evidenced by the fact that you quote me in bold while deliberately cutting out the explanation of my point.)
The point is that your story is best told with both a good story and good spelling/grammar. Writers like you, who don?t think it?s important, are lazy writers. If you?re too lazy to care to tell your story in the best way to communicate it because it?s too much work, then one can assume your story suffers from the same laziness.
Good writing means both good storytelling as well as good communication skills. The two cannot be separated.
Get it now?
yeah breanne i got your point.. and you missed my punchline...
and you also missed the fact that i said my word processor cleans up most of my mess...probably 90 to 95%....
whatever is left really isnt a big deal to most readers... so i miss a then/than once in a while.... when you read your own work a lot of the time you dont pick up on that stuff..other people who read it do... and when they point that out i happily fix it...
but whats usually left isnt a big deal....
OKAY???
sometimes on this board i wonder if some of you people should look up the word SARCASM....yeesh
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers occur in a word. The olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?
Takeshi, I've awlyas getotn a kcik out of taht eiaml. Wreid how the hmaun mnid wrkos smeteimos.
And Hero, I consider one of the greatest compliments I can get on any script is "And I didn't find a single typo." I personally put great care into ensuring that not only is my spelling and grammar basically correct, but also making sure that those pesky homophones are weeded out and other stuff that MS Word is not going to catch. Attention to detail is a big positive trait in any industry. Screenwriting is no different.
Hey, Hero, if you want to be illiterate, fine. This thread is for people who don’t. Writers defending poor writing skills is…well…indefensible.
I couldn’t disagree with your philosophy more. Relying entirely on a computer program to correct your mistakes means that you probably don’t actually possess any writing skills. Without your computer, your writing is probably so poor as to be unreadable.
This conversation is like déjà vu. And yet I’m always amazed that anyone would have to defend good writing skills to someone who professes to be a writer. One would think that a writer above anyone else would be the staunchest defender of striving to attain good spelling and grammar skills. But sadly, thanks to people like you, our art has degenerated to the point that writers themselves defend poor writing skills by grasping at every straw of an excuse.
Hey, Hero, if you want to be illiterate, fine. This thread is for people who don?t. Writers defending poor writing skills is?well?indefensible.
I couldn?t disagree with your philosophy more. Relying entirely on a computer program to correct your mistakes means that you probably don?t actually possess any writing skills. Without your computer, your writing is probably so poor as to be unreadable.
This conversation is like d? vu. And yet I?m always amazed that anyone would have to defend good writing skills to someone who professes to be a writer. One would think that a writer above anyone else would be the staunchest defender of striving to attain good spelling and grammar skills. But sadly, thanks to people like you, our art has degenerated to the point that writers themselves defend poor writing skills by grasping at every straw of an excuse.
you want to kiss me don't you?
im not defending poor writing skills and im obviously not illiterate either... anyone who went to grammar school can write. i majored in English and creative writing in college....
im not defending poor writing skills and im obviously not illiterate either...
Let me get this straight: you come to a website for writers, go to a thread about spelling and grammar, declare it’s not relevant, and expect the comment to just be blown off. Sounds like you need a lecture.
This would be funny too if it weren’t such a serious subject. I simply do not agree with this statement. I have worked with executives who have horrible grammar skills. Some of the emails I’ve read are atrocious. And these people are rich and had the finest educations money could buy. Look at George W. Bush. What a waste of a quality education. He has a Bachelor of Arts degree in History from Yale University and earned an MBA (Master of Business Administration) from Harvard Business School. Both Harvard and Yale should be ashamed that a graduate would speak so poorly in public.
Sean, “onto” is a combined form of the prepositions “on” and “to.” In other words, it’s a slang - one that has gained acceptance as its own word. Dating back to the early 18th century, in this case, it’s a slang that makes a lot of sense because they’re both propositions and so regularly used together. Both usages are correct and interchangeable.
Whoa, haven't been here in a while. Anyways, thanks for clearing that up for me Breanne.
Well, you’re persistent. You just don’t give up, do you? You’re like Spiderman. Okay, you’re starting to wear me down so I’m going to lighten up on you. I still think you’re a crazy illiterate though.
Well, you’re persistent. You just don’t give up, do you? You’re like Spiderman. Okay, you’re starting to wear me down so I’m going to lighten up on you. I still think you’re a crazy illiterate though.
The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union Rather than German, which was the other possibility.
As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English". In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter. In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away. By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru. Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.
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