Yes you CAN be emotionally invested in a screenplay, perhaps moreso than in a book because while in a book you're being explicitly told what to feel, a script should be far more ambiguous... allowing whomever reads it to take a completely different interpretation of the events.

If you're not emotionally invested in a script, it hasn't done it's job properly.

'We see' isn't needed. Of course 'we see' it, because if its written in a script there's a high chance it's intended to be seen.

Give me an a example of a description using "we see" that couldn't be said in fewer words without it. "We see" clutters up the page. It goes without saying that we see the images and actions described in a screenplay, we don't need to be reminded.

We see a car drive down the road.

A car drives down the road.

What's better?

Back on topic:

Death Monkey, you action sequence reads fine to me. My advice is to get the thing finished, then go back and trim the fat from your descriptions in the next draft.

As a novice I've never had the urge to use 'we sees', because to me it's redundant description. I mean, unless you could think of a situation where the phrase "We don't see" is used, then it just seems unnecessary.

"We don't see a car drive down the road. In fact we don't see a man jump in front of the car and slide across the windshield either."

I personally have never been cut down because I've used a few little "we see's" in moderation. I always make sure my paragraphs are tight and I always meet my page limit. Two words such as "wee see" do not clutter up the page unless there are other more needless words in there in the first place. I don't have a big problem with writing "we see" and I wouldn't advise a new writer, however new they may be, to cut out these two little words when I could be advising them on more crucial things. I've heard this debate a lot on different websites and when I've got round to reading the debater's own scripts I've found out that they are plagued by spelling, grammer, puntuation and formatting errors! These are far more serious problems to be thinking about LOL!

Anyway, that's all I'm saying and I think I've made my point.

We see a new reply to this thread wich contains this link: http://www.creativescreenwriting.com/csdaily/craft/05_06_05.html

(NOTE: we see the link as well)

We click the link and then we see that the author of the article says:

Lesson 3: Never use "we" in your description. Ever.
There are writers who will argue with me on this. I'll flat-out tell you: they're wrong. "We hear" this, "we see" that, and while "we" were writing it, our skills reverted back to a seventh-grade level.

Yes, it's easier. It's also easier to kill someone with a disease than it is to cure them. I could go off on a tangent and ask, "Is there more than one person reading the script at one time? Who constitutes the other half of 'we'?" But that's the back-door explanation to this. The beauty of this particular venue of the written word is that all you have to do is write it and -- bam -- there it is. There is no need to say we see or hear anything. Don't tell the reader what they're seeing, show them. Don't tell them what they're hearing, give them the damn sound.

With WE:
We see a MONKEY rattling the bars of his cage. We hear a distant RUMBLE.


Without WE:
A MONKEY rattles the bars of his cage. A distant RUMBLE.


There you have it, easy as Sunday morning. Just like camera direction, the cure is usually a matter of omission. As you go through your work to excise all these little tumors -- which, ahem, I'm sure you're doing at this very moment -- you'll come across some that require something more than just deletion. You'll find instances where you've painted yourself into a wee corner. You're gonna think, "Maybe I'll just leave it in. Just one. No big deal." Sweet mercy, kid, you sound like a recovering alcoholic taking a nosedive off the wagon. It's not okay to have just one instance of this in your script. Not one, not again, not ever. Got it? Use your skills as a writer to figure out the best way to write it without resorting to the use of "we."

We hear there are lots of people in the industry who consider "we sees" as lazy writing. We see that our spec scripts could get (with luck) into those hands. We consider it's good to avoid things that could turn professional readers off.

We follow Martin's advice and let the thread get back on track.

Sorry, one thing I'd like to know since that article has been posted yet again, who exactly is the guy who wrote it?

I don't really know who the guy is, but his arguments for not writing "we see" seem much more convincing than:

Quoted from Acroname These are far more serious problems to be thinking about LOL!

And since I don't really know who Ghostwriter is as well (I did a google search and didn't find any screenwriting articles written by him) I think it's better to stick to the author's advice.

And, by the way, the internet seems to be full of screenwriting articles wich state the same advice about "we see" in scripts.

Here's another: http://www.mythmakerjohn.com/article_2.htm

You can tell he's a lawyer, can't you?

Quoted from Mr.Z I don't really know who the guy is

I rest my case.  

I'll stick with what I've always done. I don't see any crucial reason to do otherwise.

Quoted from Acroname I don't see any crucial reason to do otherwise.

Maybe because I didn't write "we see" before the bits of my post which you strategically omitted to quote/address.

Ghost Writer, " Henry Jones " wrote that article.

Okay, so I was reading this thread again as it got way off topic onto a strange argument over "we see." Since that point has been argued to death, and there seems to be no end in sight (and there never will be), we'll let that stay where it is.

What will I throw out there is that there are several things that the practice of spec screenwriting teaches against, and that's the type of screenwriting we look for on this site. Note that I emphsize a particular style of screenwriting here which means using these other things doesn't make you "wrong," but it means you're writing in a style that neither we on this site, nor the readers in a production office, are looking for.

You have to understand that when these people who read are looking for a great screenplay, they're looking at the way it is written as much as the story. They know what the rules are, and they expect you to know them as well. If you wish to write the way you want to (and there's nothing wrong with that in your world), then they'll just toss your script and move on.

The argument over whether "we see" is right or not will be debated until movies are shot on HD cell phones and cut together on a park bench, but the point of the matter is this: here on this site, you can have your opinion on the spec style, but like those readers, we really don't care. A lot of us understand what is being sought after in terms of style, and you can choose to listen or not. If you choose not to, then you can enjoy the next movie of those who do listen from the audience.

I've used a lot of "we" in my scripts, because I believe that a lot of what makes my scripts good (if they are indeed good) is the visuals I try to describe. Since I can't actually show any of the visuals, I have to describe as vividly as I know how, using things like "dolly with" or "camera follows" and definately "we". I've been criticized for it, but a few readers have said that they don't mind either way.


Cheers, Chism.

Quoted from chism I've used a lot of "we" in my scripts, because I believe that a lot of what makes my scripts good (if they are indeed good) is the visuals I try to describe. Since I can't actually show any of the visuals, I have to describe as vividly as I know how, using things like "dolly with" or "camera follows" and definately "we". I've been criticized for it, but a few readers have said that they don't mind either way.

The problem here is that when you submit this to an agent/directot/professional reader/competition/whoever, they're going to see all you camera directions and 'wee sees's,' cry out 'amateur!' and toss your script.  These people have to go through a lot of scripts in a single day.  They're looking for a reason to toss it.

And you're giving them one.

I posted a list of reasons why those in Hollywood don't read your script.  If anyone can post the link, I'd appreciate it.


Phil