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I just plain do not have the cash to get the big time programs we all talk about. However, I do have a free program called Scriptwriter, which allows for the total manual setting of margins and allows you to pick your own font. I've got the Final Draft Courier font. I have used Scriptwriter to write with before, but abandoned it for celtx. I've gone in and changed the settings more than once, because I keep finding different dims as I mentioned before, but got frustrated and decided to let celtx make those decisions for me. Maybe I should just stick to Scriptwriter.
Balt, the way you present your ability to 'fix people up' with real software really does come off sounding as though you're getting pirated software. I have known people who deal in pirated software, so I'm always on the alert for it. It sounds as though you're getting only Sophocles, and it is totally legit, since it is coming from the developer. I apologize for any misconception. I have never even bothered trying demos of FD, or any other script software, because I hate the idea of getting excited about something I can't get. Seeing as how this is a legit situation, I'd like very much to try Sophocles if you could PM me the info. Thanks.
I just plain do not have the cash to get the big time programs we all talk about. However, I do have a free program called Scriptwriter, which allows for the total manual setting of margins and allows you to pick your own font. I've got the Final Draft Courier font. I have used Scriptwriter to write with before, but abandoned it for celtx. I've gone in and changed the settings more than once, because I keep finding different dims as I mentioned before, but got frustrated and decided to let celtx make those decisions for me. Maybe I should just stick to Scriptwriter.
Balt, the way you present your ability to 'fix people up' with real software really does come off sounding as though you're getting pirated software. I have known people who deal in pirated software, so I'm always on the alert for it. It sounds as though you're getting only Sophocles, and it is totally legit, since it is coming from the developer. I apologize for any misconception. I have never even bothered trying demos of FD, or any other script software, because I hate the idea of getting excited about something I can't get. Seeing as how this is a legit situation, I'd like very much to try Sophocles if you could PM me the info. Thanks.
I would never condone pirating software for the intent to harm a company out of their rightful earnings. However, Sophocles went belly up, leaving me one pissed off sonuvabitch when I reformatted my computer and went to re download it from the website and it was no longer viable. I did a lot of foot work to come across it again, being one of the only people to hear from Ol'buddy and becoming a sort of spokes person for all of us who lost our scripts to the SCP file format. And not just on Simplyscripts... I advocated for months for the software just to find out when you do download it it is set to trial and you cannot export or import with it. Needless to say I took action.
I studied the laws regarding digital distributed content without physical media too. It's like all them games you download for Ps3 and xbox 360... with no media they are forced to include compatibility within their next units or offer a boot load solution to the problem. Trust me, many people will see what I mean in the years to come when they try to obtain the actual rights to the software via actual media.
Anyways, back to track... Sophocles is gone. Lose talk from ol'buddy says it's coming back with a 2010 revamp, but we'll see. One with actual physical media, but again... We'll see. As of now, though... anyone who had Sophocles and feels they are intitled to it to re obtain their scripts... I am 100% for it. It's the law.
I spent my money to obtain it. I wrote nearly all of my 124 screenplays with it. And to lose that catalog of work to a SCP format that isn't convertable... Please. you're crazy as hell. As I said, I did a lot of foot work and talked to him again and again until he listened to me.
I would never condone pirating software for the intent to harm a company out of their rightful earnings. However, Sophocles went belly up, leaving me one pissed off sonuvabitch when I reformatted my computer and went to re download it from the website and it was no longer viable. I did a lot of foot work to come across it again, being one of the only people to hear from Ol'buddy and becoming a sort of spokes person for all of us who lost our scripts to the SCP file format. And not just on Simplyscripts... I advocated for months for the software just to find out when you do download it it is set to trial and you cannot export or import with it. Needless to say I took action.
I studied the laws regarding digital distributed content without physical media too. It's like all them games you download for Ps3 and xbox 360... with no media they are forced to include compatibility within their next units or offer a boot load solution to the problem. Trust me, many people will see what I mean in the years to come when they try to obtain the actual rights to the software via actual media.
Anyways, back to track... Sophocles is gone. Lose talk from ol'buddy says it's coming back with a 2010 revamp, but we'll see. One with actual physical media, but again... We'll see. As of now, though... anyone who had Sophocles and feels they are intitled to it to re obtain their scripts... I am 100% for it. It's the law.
I spent my money to obtain it. I wrote nearly all of my 124 screenplays with it. And to lose that catalog of work to a SCP format that isn't convertable... Please. you're crazy as hell. As I said, I did a lot of foot work and talked to him again and again until he listened to me.
Oh geez. That would totally suck. I don't blame you one bit for chasing that guy down. No note, no nothing about sheehan software going under. 124 scripts lost. Damn. Half the price of Final Draft, too.
I'm gonna put in your specs and set Scriptmaker (Not scriptwriter, I was thinking wrong), and rewrite Uncle Harry. I'll check out how different it looks!
Slightly off point here, but I read somewhere that Scripped, the online writing software, had linked up with Move Magic, so their formatting is actually the right industry standard model that is so often talked about.
I have never tried Scripped - I tend to have internet connection problems, so the thought of having to be online for hours while I write put me off - but has anyone here ever tried it out? Is it any use?
I used Scripped for a while. It was okay...but in the end I abandoned it for Celtx. You have to be logged onto their website to use it, and I quite often had problems where the programme seemed to crash/freeze/fail to save and I'd lose the past five minutes of work.
Also, you store and access your scripts on their website...don't want to sound paranoid, but I'd rather have my works on my hard-drive than on their server!
It was the first software I used, but I wouldn't go back to it.
I have looked at their website a couple of times - and would agree with what you say Jonny - especially about online storage. If I write something, I want it in my hands (so to speak), not stored god knows where!
I have said this in other threads - my belief is this: If a producer/director looks at your work and throws it in the bin unread because it is written on Celtx (if they can tell) or someother software they don't like, or because it has CONTINUED at the bottom of the page, or whatever other stupid reason - then they are obviously wankers and I take the attitude that I would not want to work with them!
What matters is what you write - the story, the characters - not what you write it with - be it Final Draft Platinum Plated 9 or a battered old manual typewriter. The tool is not what makes you a writer. What is in your heart makes you that.
And anyway - most Hollywood pros use FD, and look at the crap they turn out!
Came across this online - thought it might be of interest, especially as it may cast some light on the differences between UK and US writers regarding formatting, and thus the uses of software such as Celtx:
Danny Stack Screenwriter, script editor. Writing credits include EastEnders, Doctors, Sofia's Diary, CBBC's Roy and CiTV's BAFTA-winning Amazing Adrenalini Brothers. Set up the Red Planet Prize with Tony Jordan in 2007 to find and encourage new writers. Former script reader for UK Film Council, Working Title Films, Pathe, Miramax, amongst others. Writer/director of Origin, short film starring Katy Carmichael and Lee Ross.
Everyone knows screenplay format and everyone knows how they should lay out their script. Final Draft, Movie Magic, etc - all the available screenplay software is endless. But there are still a few that fall through the cracks. In my experience, these tend to be European scripts, who format their screenplays in any way the writer feels comfortable. And good luck to them. But generally, it's not a good idea to turn your nose up at the basics of what a screenplay should look like.
By and large, spec scripts in the UK are decently formatted and presented. The US are sticklers for format but here in the UK, writers are probably a bit less concerned (and us readers probably a bit bit more lenient) if a script is written Time Roman pt 12 rather than the standard font of Courier pt 12. Of course, there are those who would argue that it doesn't matter what font or margin they use, it's the story that matters, but it would help greatly if the UK spec pile was as efficient and professional as our US counterparts.
...
There are people who could tell you immediately what the left and right margin should be but I'm not that anal. Thankfully, Final Draft does it automatically for me but if you don't have the benefit of screenplay software and are unsure of the margins, just use your common sense. About an inch to two inches either side would probably look okay. Writers occasionally get hung up on screen format issues too, like what to do when characters speak at the same time or how to do a phone call, but for me, as long as I can read it and not be confused, then it works. Use whatever you feel comfortable with in terms of relaying the story and the reader shouldn't have any complaints.
Now I'm contradicting myself with my earlier remark that the UK should be as professional as the US but if looks like a script and reads like a script, hell it's a script. The rest is down to content. What your story is like and how well you tell it. If you're sending your script to the US, and not via an agent, then it's best to make sure that you have all the exact details regarding format and how they like it but while all of this is important, it's just side-salad to what the script actually has to say. I read a script today that was full of spelling mistakes, bad grammar and questionable format but the dialogue was very funny which in turn made the characters more appealing, and the story bobbed along regardless of its format flaws. So yes, get the format right, be as professional as possible, but the story's the thing that will really catch the eye.
My hang ups on format are simple... I've written a ton of scripts. Some so good I'm holding onto them for when I'm actually serious about the business, rather care enough about the business to want to try it out. With that said, I've had "some" of my scripts, professionally critiqued by actual pro's in the industry for shit tons of money a pop...
I did this because at one time I was stupid enough to think I had a shot... As good as I feel I am at writing screenplays doesn't matter. What matters is what the guy and gal sitting in the position of power thinks. I've had my scripts sent back to me after spending 300 and 400 dollars with red marks all over. A shell of my former idea. I've had some of my scripts sent off with 120 pages, only to get back 40 pages of solid material. All of this at the expense of wonder.
So, you don't have to listen to me. You don't have to like me... I'm sure you don't. I'm a prick and an abrasive Dick Rip a lot of times. I know this. But I am trying to help you from my past experiences...
Now, I know standard format... I've taken classes. I've read all the books. I've done workshops... I've talked to people inside and out about my material. But regardless of how ready you think you are... how ready is the material you're selling?
Put it this way... I've been through the ringer so many times that I've learned not to produce anything to anyone that isn't 95% to you and the 3 people you let read it before you do.
I'm not as passionate about the industry as half of you people here. I could care less, at this stage, if any of my work gets made or not. I know what I've got and a lot of people I interact and net work with do aswell. That's what matters. I'm just not ready and might never be... but I do know one thing, I can write a damn good script regardless of how any one person feels about me.
And do you know why? Because I took the time to learn the format. Took the time to listen to others. Took the time to read scripts and took the time to breath. Life is life and we can spend all day here crying about this and that, but what's the point?
Listen, don't listen... it's subjective anymore because this is a teeter totter affair. Just one last question, how many times do you double space after a period when writing your scripts? Celtix doesn't do that for ya. Ya know that right? That is just one hang up you're gonna get flagged for if you send it off for review.
I emailed Celtx the other day and asked them if Celtx was industry standard. I also sent them the link to this thread and this what they said:
Quoted Text
Hi Chris,
Thanks for your email. Well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I would hazard to say though that Mr. 'Baltis' may suffer from a bit of misinformation, and /or simply has a strong preference for other software, which of course is cool with us. To answer your question, Celtx formatting is based on the industry standard guidelines recommended by the AMPAS Nicholl Fellowship.
As per Baltis's comment below, it would be nice to know what exactly he's referring to so we can address these concerns, if in fact they are items that require fixing:
"...Celtix is not industry standard... A script done on Celtix is easy to discern from the crowd and it looks unprofessional. This is the sad case... Try to write a script with it and send it my way, but don't tell me you wrote it on Celtix... I will bet my fingers on the fact I will know it was done on Celtix by 6 thigns Celtix does that no other software does... Things you can't change or alter and things that anyone who actually knows the proper format of a screenplay are...."
I hope this helps, Chris. Let me know if there's anything else we can assist you with.
I emailed Celtx the other day and asked them if Celtx was industry standard. I also sent them the link to this thread and this what they said:
But I did... I listed the Hollywood absolutes in standards. All of them. Why didn't they address those standards? You sent them this thread, right? Well, I gave the proper format of a screenplay and they said nothing about it? Ha, address that Celtix. Address my stats and give us all of yours.
Please... Movie Outline ---> Celtix. Movie Outline = Industry Standard. Celtix = not so much.
Simple as that. I backed up my claims and they didn't address those claims by giving their own stats and ledgers. So, yeah... Case closed. I hope they did look at this thread... I hope they also read my stats and they adjust their software to them, cos that's what's important. That they get on track with the industry. Maybe this thread came in time for them to include my advice into this "NEW & EXCITING" update for Celtix.
But I did... I listed the Hollywood absolutes in standards. All of them. Why didn't they address those standards? You sent them this thread, right? Well, I gave the proper format of a screenplay and they said nothing about it? Ha, address that Celtix. Address my stats and give us all of yours.
Please... Movie Outline ---> Celtix. Movie Outline = Industry Standard. Celtix = not so much.
Simple as that. I backed up my claims and they didn't address those claims by giving their own stats and ledgers. So, yeah... Case closed. I hope they did look at this thread... I hope they also read my stats and they adjust their software to them, cos that's what's important. That they get on track with the industry. Maybe this thread came in time for them to include my advice into this "NEW & EXCITING" update for Celtix.
“Celtx formatting is based on the industry standard guidelines recommended by the AMPAS Nicholl Fellowship.”
I typed AMPAS Nicholl Fellowship into Google and The Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences site came up. Here’s the page for Nicholls Fellowship in Screenwriting: http://www.oscars.org/awards/nicholl/index.html
I also clicked on the Screenwriting Resources title on the website and this came up:
There is no absolute “standard” format used by all professional screenwriters working in the American film industry. Slight variations abound in scripts written by professionals. That said, professional scripts will invariably resemble the formatting guide that follows. Nuances may vary – margins slightly different, a dash here or there, parentheticals used this way or that – but overall, professional screenplays fit these guidelines.
Realize that “shooting scripts,” the form in which scripts are most often available at libraries and elsewhere, are not the form in which most professional writers submit their scripts. Submission scripts, sales scripts, first draft scripts – all share certain characteristics: no scene numbers, few if any camera shots designated and sequences written in master scenes.
Your script does not have to mimic the following pages exactly, but it should closely resemble them. If you’re confused about which nuances are acceptable and which would push your script into an “out-of-format” category, you would do well to follow these guidelines and eliminate those questionable nuances.
Screenplay Format Sample (PDF)
Script Problems to Avoid
Can your script give a reader a negative impression before the reader starts reading? The answer is “possibly,” and whether it does will vary from reader to reader. Does a negative first impression mean that a script will be automatically dismissed? Of course not. If a script is good enough, no minor “fault” is going to stop it. But why cause a reader to have a negative first impression of your script if you can easily avoid it? Writers who entered scripts with one or several of these “faults” (variant covers and brads are the most obvious) have won Nicholl Fellowships. Undoubtedly, many scripts with some such “faults” have sold.
Twelve foibles that might cause a reader to think less of your script before it has been “cracked”:
1. Art on the script cover. 2. Hard, slick Acco covers (with long metal connectors). 3. “Permanently” bound scripts (i.e., plastic spine binding). 4. Commercial, “college paper” covers. 5. Wimpy brads. 6. Long “dangerous” brads. 7. Cut “dangerous” brads. 8. A “clipped” or “rubber-banded” script on non-three hole paper. 9. Overly thick scripts. 10. Thin scripts. 11. Three-ring binding. 12. Color of card stock cover that inadvertently bugs a reader.
(You’ll notice that I did not include the number of brads, though scripts with one brad generally aren’t too good. And once you turn inside a thin script and discover that it’s been copied on both sides of the paper, you forget the thinness [unless you hate having to fold back the pages to read them].)
What about after the cover is turned? Fourteen foibles that might invoke a poor first impression (based only on a script’s title page and page one):
1. Typo/misspelling on the title page. 2. Typo/misspelling in the first scene header. 3. Typos/misspellings in the first sentence or paragraph or page. 4. Triple/double spacing of every/many line(s) on first page. 5. Lack of spacing between scene header and description and/or between description and dialogue and/or between dialogue and dialogue. 6. Use of font other than Courier 12-point, ten-pitch, non-proportional. 7. Extensive use of bold print. 8. Dialogue that stretches from the left margin to the right margin. 9. Extra space between character name and dialogue. 10. Description and/or dialogue typed ALL CAPS. 11. Extremely narrow or extremely wide outside margins. 12. Long, long, long descriptive passages. 13. Handwritten or hand-printed script. 14. Other glaring, non-standard format usage.
Writers who entered scripts with one or several of these “faults” (non-Courier and lengthy description being the most obvious) have won Nicholl Fellowships. Remember, these remarks are based on subjective observation of subjective reactions. Not all readers are affected by the same “problems” when picking up a script. And if Shane Black were to have six typos on page one, would anybody care? Probably not. Until you are paid to write scripts, it’s probably more reasonable to be careful about your submissions.
Celtix doesn't work for me, because I don't have the time to go back and re-check THERE WORK.
ouch...
like I said earlier, one of the very few people here that has actually sold a script to Hollywood, uses celtex. I think that puts a lot of this argument to rest...
Okay we get it. If people use celtix, it's fine, as long as you have a good script, it will pass but if it's a bad script, whether it's FD, Movie Magic or any other software, it's going in the shredder.
Thank for posting the Academy info Chris - I found it very interesting indeed. Being British, I never thought of looking there, and it is really interesting reading this from the horse's mouth.
like I said earlier, one of the very few people here that has actually sold a script to Hollywood, uses celtex. I think that puts a lot of this argument to rest...
Well, you would think so, wouldn't you - however, experience has taught me that some people can argue with their own reflections! So I doubt that this, or what the Academy have to say will make a jot of difference to some people.
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