I remember commenting on this script in an earlier form when  you posted it in the WIP (if I recall correctly).

The basic premise remains the same, but you have successfully dealt with the problems it had then, and I liked this new version a lot.

The train could easily have been at the station for this length of time - if this was the end of the line, and it required a new driver before starting off on it's outward journey, it could easily have waited a lot longer.

I did wonder how Bill knew her destination as she doesn't mention it in her telephone dialogue - I think I preferred the original ending, where the beggar comes up to her and gives her the money to this one - but that's my only real quibble with this.

Nice little story and moral.

Pretty much, I have to pretty much mimic what Kurtz was saying.

-It was well written, but it took too much of a fluff tone for my taste.
-Also, I did like her begging, but I think it was almost forced, it seemed.
-Last, I agree that it would've been nicer (more... not thought-provoking, but something akin to that) if the train took off while she was begging, or once she got the ticket that the train would have left. Then, she would've learned a lesson, but it would've cost her something.

6.5/10.

Hey Ste

I thought this was OK.  There wasn't much of a story but a pretty decent message in there and for that, I liked it.  No real issues with it, nice little uplifting story.

Nice script. Reminded me of a short called the "Lunch Date"

"I'm not normally such a bitch..."

Yeah right.

Is it me? Or am I the only one that thinks Bill using the only money he had to buy a ticket for someone who called him an idiot...a little...generous? As, intially I thought he had found a dicarded ticket (being homeless and all).

Thanks everyone for the reads, sorry it's taken a while to respond.

Quoted from 24 Grams Is it me? Or am I the only one that thinks Bill using the only money he had to buy a ticket for someone who called him an idiot...a little...generous? As, intially I thought he had found a dicarded ticket (being homeless and all).

It's a fair point Grams, and was one of my main doubts for the script. I figure the guy just sees her standing up for herself when she's in the same position as he is - in a way, and respects that. It's what he wants to do himself. That's why he buys her the ticket. But yeah, I agree that it's a bit of a stretch.

As I go:

Thoughts:

As you can see, I didn't write anything as I went.  This was a really fun, quick read.  Maybe a little TOO fun and quick.  Haha -- I'll explain what I mean...

usaking called this script "pointless" and got a lot of s*** for it.  I'm going to go ahead and agree.  It's pointless.  Lucy was given a gift that she did not deserve.  This happens all the time in real life but it is not drama.  Lucy has been humbled but she has been changed by an exterior force -- she has not worked to change herself.  The bum, in fact, makes the decision at the second-act turning point, but he was a nice guy at the start and he's a nice guy at the end...he doesn't change either.  There is no conflict in this script that is not superficial.  Because Lucy is simply given a gift that she does not have to work for, she is taught nothing about herself, and, consequently, we the audience are taught nothing about ourselves.  This script is, in fact, pointless.

It is also superficially heartwarming, and well-written.  There is nothing wrong with either of these things.  But as storytellers we MUST offer the audience something of spiritual substance, and I find none here.

Thanks for the read Heretic.

I have to disagree with you about it being pointless.

Firstly, there is a change in Bill's character. He's begging for money at the start and then, seeing someone else in his situation, becomes the good samaritan. In a way the script itself is just a retelling of 'The Good Samaritan'.

Lucy's character goes through the most change. She's aloof, arrogant to start off with. As you say, she gets humbled, but what Bill likes is the fact that she tells the people who ignore her exactly what HE thinks of them. She's saying what he wishes he had the balls to.

I don't agree with you about there being a problem with change by an external force. An external force has caused her to make internal changes. As long as there is change in a story then I don't see the problem with it. Fair enough, it's better if the change has come through the protagonist making a strong effort but I believe this still works.

Pleased you found it well written and a fun, quick read. This isn't really what I wanted to write for the course it was aimed at but it was the only idea that I got to work in time.

Ste

Heretic:"The bum, in fact, makes the decision at the second-act turning point, but he was a nice guy at the start and he's a nice guy at the end...he doesn't change either."

You are confusing two concepts. One is called Character and the other is called Characterization. Character is the persons true nature in isn't necessarily related to his characterization. Characterization is a a persons, habbits/ personality that makes him unique. I might have known the homeless man was a nice guy, but I didn't know he was an Altruist  until WE (audience) sees him sacrifce his money for the b***.

Heretic:Look back in movies, the main characters rarely change. What changes is their perception (but not always), of the world not necessiarly their personality, i.e. Indiana Jones, Forest Gump, Joker, Batman, superman, John Mclane (Die Hard), etc etc...

"The bum, in fact, makes the decision at the second-act turning point, but he was a nice guy at the start and he's a nice guy at the end...he doesn't change either.  There is no conflict in this script that is not superficial."

Heretic this short only has one act. Feature length scripts have three acts, but shorts like this are a single act story. I don't where you saw a second act turning point, because I don't think one exist.

Also, there is drama in his short movie. That is what makes a good story. Conflict is drama but drama isn't necessarily conflict but conflict comes in different forms. One is external conflict and the one is internal. I think you are saying this short doesn't have enough external conflict. True but it has alot of internal conflict.

Hi Ste,

I liked what you said about Lucy telling people what Bill wants to tell them.  I think that's interesting.  However, I didn't personally pick up on that idea in the script.

Of course there is no problem with change by external force but there must be an effort from within as well.  Bill's humbling act should be the moment of realization that brings Lucy to make a choice towards the "right" thing to do.  A means to an end, not an end.  Otherwise, I think that the story will always be un-fulfilling.

Hi IM,

The idea of storytelling is to show a fundamental change in character; or, if you like, in a character's perception of the world.  I don't really see the distinction here...

Indy's flaw is that he has no faith.  In the end of Raiders, he is a believer.

All stories have three acts.  I won't give an example here because I think this is pretty clear-cut.

All drama is conflict.  Of course there is drama in this short script -- it would be extremely hard to write a script without any conflict in it.  To me, however, there is only unsettled conflict, due to the lack of such a sequence as I described above, and because of that, "pointless" drama.  I'm not saying I don't see the potential -- in character, premise, and yes, conflict -- for a good moral story here.  I do however believe that at this stage the story is unfinished.  

Hi Heretic nice to meet you. Alot of newbe writers have trouble with the concept of character.

Heretic:
The idea of storytelling is to show a fundamental change in character; or, if you like, in a character's perception of the world.  I don't really see the distinction here...

IM:
Not necessarily. Umm writing is about revealing the true nature of your characters. In the beginning the audience won't know your protagonist until he is force to make tough decisions.
Each decision he makes reveals a little more of his true nature a.k.a. character.

Characterization is the profile of the character: How he eats, how he talks, how he makes love, what he believes in ie God or allah whatever. That's characterization of the character and it describes the external persona of that person.

Even if Indie became a believer (being a non believer is IMO not a character flaw) that doesn't change the core of who Indie is as a character. If Indies character changed in every movie, he would become a very complicated person making him hard to relate to. For people are naturally very complex. Indie is brave, shrewed, intelligent, impulsive etc. That is consistent in every movie. It never changes. That is the core of his character.

Heretic:
All stories have three acts.  I won't give an example here because I think this is pretty clear-cut.


IM:
That's not true. Many stories don't have three acts. Shakespearian stories have around 5, and most good short films have only 1. You can't put 4 major turning points in a 5 page script.

In short changed, what were the four major turning points? Include the Inciting incident, Act one climax, act two climax, and act three climax.

Heretic:
All drama is conflict.  Of course there is drama in this short script -- it would be extremely hard to write a script without any conflict in it.  To me, however, there is only unsettled conflict, due to the lack of such a sequence as I described above, and because of that, "pointless" drama.

IM:
Okay will I respect your opinion, but I advise you to watch short films that are winners in the Canne's and Sundance Film festivals because short change has many of the same motifs.

That's why I believe his script is good.  

Hi IM,

Nice to meet you too.  

You may be making some assumptions about me.  Maybe it's the Hilary Duff avatar .

We perceive some aspects of storytelling differently.  That's fine.  That's it for me for now though.  I'm sure we'll exchange points of view again in another, more suitable thread!

Quoted from Heretic Hi Ste, I liked what you said about Lucy telling people what Bill wants to tell them.  I think that's interesting.  However, I didn't personally pick up on that idea in the script.

The surprised smile when he hears her shout at the moustached man.

Quoted from Heretic We perceive some aspects of storytelling differently.  That's fine.  That's it for me for now though.  I'm sure we'll exchange points of view again in another, more suitable thread!

When you call a script pointless and someone else disagrees then that's a suitable thread. But yeah, I think it's best just to agree to disagree

IM

This is actually 3 acts, at least that's what the course lecturer asked for and he didn't say I'd failed when reading it out. I think the acts are a little more subtle in a short like this, in a similar way to how good scenes have 3 acts or more. Build up - Development - Resolution.

There's a thread in the WIP section about this, that has my synopsis which highlights the act breaks. Some amendments were made but I think the structure's still the same.

Ste

Quoted from stebrown IM This is actually 3 acts, at least that's what the course lecturer asked for and he didn't say I'd failed when reading it out. I think the acts are a little more subtle in a short like this, in a similar way to how good scenes have 3 acts or more. Build up - Development - Resolution. There's a thread in the WIP section about this, that has my synopsis which highlights the act breaks. Some amendments were made but I think the structure's still the same. Ste

Hey Stepbrown I will check out. I read your script again to make sure I didn't miss anything. What I will say about your script is that it does have mulitple turning points so kudos to that.  

Quoted from Heretic Hi IM, Nice to meet you too.   You may be making some assumptions about me.  Maybe it's the Hilary Duff avatar . We perceive some aspects of storytelling differently.  That's fine.  That's it for me for now though.  I'm sure we'll exchange points of view again in another, more suitable thread!

Heretic I didn't make any assumptions about you. You said you didn't see the distinction between character and his perception, and that was why I gave you in indepth analysis of the two concepts.