Dena,

Thank you so much for the high praise, it means a lot. I’m glad it read fast and easy, maybe I’m the right track then. Did I really leave a few periods, damn.  I am not happy about that but thanks for noticing.

Thanks, appreciated.

Rkwok,

Thanks for the comments and kind words. I agree with about not revealing the chat up line and that was my thinking. Some good points you have made there and I will definitely be looking at them when it comes to a rewrite.

Thanks.

Steve

Quoted from Reef Dreamer A polite description would be a rough, unattractive looking woman. I will let others describe with more colour!

Even worse when they're a slag.

E.D.

Hi Steve,

I suppose this was okay. Well written but very forgettable. I feel like I've read this script a hundred times before. The actual number might not be a hundred but it might as well be.

Nevertheless, I suppose it's a tried and true formula for shorts. Not always a fan of tried and true but I can understand why it works. So I wouldn't say you did anything wrong. But very conventional, I must say.

The one thing that wasn't conventional was Gordon's Flash schtick. I'd expand on that. It was funny and makes the character more unique.

The chat up line (British equivalent to pick up line, I suppose), unfortunately, didn't work. You don't say it in the script but one can infer what it was easy (you also revealed it on this thread). The situation that arrises from it is a fun twist but seriously... how dense is Steve?! Even as lackluster with the ladies, I think he'd have better sense to fall for this one.

I don't know how you can make this work but it's a critical issue. That's my opinion, at least. Seems to have worked for some of these other guys. I don't buy it though.

I agree with Will (albinopenguin) that Miranda would have called when she arrived at the club. Have her call. Gordon doesn't need to answer and you need not reveal that she's actually at the club. Maybe it'd be a little obvious that she was but the punchline is pretty predictable anyway. This kind of setup can only end so many ways.

Final nitpicks. I don't see why everyone had to stop and laugh when Steve gets shut down. It only matters that the two main characters notice. Frankly, this bit felt very movie-ish (in a bad way). Most of the clubs I've been to have been so packed and loud, no one on the dance floor would notice something like this occur.

I also didn't think the banter between Gordon and the bartender had all that much going for it. Honestly, I feel like the bartender might just ignore his behavior. Bartenders have a whole slew of drunk assholes starting shit to anticipate over the course of a given night. Why not just let this one go?

If you want Gordon to come off as an asshole, why don't you just have him hit on random chicks?

Anyway, I suppose overall, this was okay. Nothing spectacular though.

Hey James,

Thanks the frank and detailed feedback, it's nice to have such an experienced writer like yourself take a look and comment.

Quoted Text I suppose this was okay. Well written

It went downhill from here I guess   It is a tried formula but for a first effort that's all I wanted, my writing technique was my major concern in this.

I'm glad you liked Flash, he's certainly a good character IMO.  Have to use him again sometime?  Thinking hat on.

I thought the banter between Flash and the bartender worked but I understand your reasoning.  I've been that drunk asshole you mentioned many times and they’ve always ignored me.

Thanks again James for some insightful comments, it's much appreciated.

Hey Steve,

It's my pleasure to open up your first script.
You are one of a handful of very active new members here in the forum.
So, I'll always be happy to offer an opinion on your posted work.

Right there in your opening description, there's a dreaded typo.
A long dark coat wraps around MICHAEL 29, a trimmed beard hides...

According to this as written, your character is named Michael 29.
Get that comma in there so no one throws your script down before they get started.

Orphaned slug at the bottom of page three is a no-no.

A simple tale told reasonably well with a nice finish.
You've approached your first script with a very logical attitude.
It's a common mistake to overreach with your stories when starting out.

The dialogue felt pretty natural, and I enjoyed the punchline.
Even got caught up in the "chat up line" and forgot about the missus coming.

Good work. Keep writing and rewriting!

Regards,
E.D.

As I go:

Page 2:  I dunno.  He's taking the wedding band off just for Miranda?  The way he acts makes me think that he was planning on finding some other woman before Miranda called.  Seems like he would have taken it off long before getting to the line in the first place.  Ah well.  We'll see.
Tiny thought.  If the script is about Gordon, it's an interesting choice to show us Michael first (at the start of the script).  This kind of thing can be confusing to me...I would naturally assume while watching that the first person of the two that we see is the protagonist.

Page 3:  Yeah.  So it definitely seems to me that he would have taken the band off earlier than in line.  Him taking it off after Miranda's call makes it seem as though it was a result of Miranda specifically.  Is this the intention?

Page 4:  "And keep the change."  Shut the woman up with money.  Ho ho ho.  She's willing to be degraded for the right price.  A nasty note for a light, breezy script, in my opinion.  On the other hand, perhaps it fits into Gordon's character and his world.  

Thoughts:

Eh, well.  So what's the point?  Gordon gets his comeuppance?  That's no kinda story, though.  It's a fun gotcha, but why would anyone put months of time and thousands of dollars into telling this story?

There's not really a clear protagonist in the story.  I guess it's Gordon, but he doesn't really change and he isn't even particularly involved in the climax.  Michael doesn't really have any purpose whatsoever, and I think the script would be better served by Gordon being alone at the bar.  Everything would be far more dynamic if, instead of us learning about Gordon through his conversation with Michael, we learned about him through his conversation with a woman he was trying to pull.  He decides to show off to her by helping/making fun of Steve, and it blows up in his face.  I dunno.  That's one idea.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I just don't see the point of all this.  The only thing that happens is that a guy finds out his wife is as unfaithful as he is.  You could do that in a page with no loss of message.  This script needs a more dynamic story with more of a point.

All that said, it's an easy read and the dialogue is natural.  Pleasant but pointless.

Chris

Steve,

Gave this one a read. Skimmed through the comments. For a first script, it is a good effort. I enjoyed Gordon's "The Flash" reference. I do think shorts should always have at least one thing you didn't see coming. You did a good job surprising me.

Lots of missing commas. i.e... "You're crazy Gordy." Should read "You're crazy, Gordy."

This made me smile, but its not laugh out loud. Its all a set-up for  the last line, which is good, but at 9 pages its a bit much for a simple payoff.

You could cut this down by simply starting it inside the club and removing some banter between them and the bartender which didn't really add much.

Overall, I will say you've got the knack for writing a short. Just keep it short. The longer you build the set-up, the better payoff you've got to have...

James

Hey Steve,

I've given this one a read 'cos I most definitely owed you after you read Competitive Advantage.

Are you British? I know you're living in the very beautiful Perth but I think I recall you saying you'd been here or were from here. The reason I ask is that I didn't find this British at all actually. It seemed quite location neutral to me. Not that it matters but when I read comments before delving in, I imagined a Britfest.

When reading I thought it would be cool if it was the wife, and it's the most natural conclusion. Having intro'd us to the barmaid, though, I think you could've made use of her. As it is, she basically brushes him off as we'd expect her to. Unless she serves a bigger purpose, I think you'd be best to do away with her.

The only other main thing to strike me was that you focused on the chaps while they were at the bar a little too long - there was no urgency or moving forward of the story beyond establishing Gord is looking to plow every piece of skirt there. I think you could keep the page count and instead develop a small subplot (maybe utilising the barmaid) to add texture to the story.

But like the others have said, this is a very good first attempt. The world is now your oyster!

Hey Steve, I've also noticed you're doing it right by reading and providing lots of feedback, so I too am happy to give your first script a look.

You probably know most see me as way too picky and harsh, but I say what I say to help, and nothing else.

So...with that said, I'll point out that you've got lots and lots of mistakes right out of the gate, which is usually a read killer, and will be for me here, as well.  These are all easy to fix mistakes, but the point is that you want to fix these things up before posting, and if you're not aware they're mistakes, then hopefully the few comments I make here will help.

Although you correctly start this off in an EXT scene, you don't give us a single visual of where we actually are - we don't see any EXT views of any structures, nor do we see anything, except people.

Your initial intro of Michael is written very awkwardly, and as others have said, you're missing a comma between his age and name, as you did again when you into Gordon in the next passage.

Your sentence structure is off in several places - sometimes you incorrectly use a comma to bridge 2 separate thoughts, others, you incorrectly use a period, when a comma is the correct choice.

But, the biggest issue is that within your first page, nothing is remotely interesting.

I don't know what it's like in Aussie, but bartenders have to be at least 21 to serve alcohol most places.

Tons and tons of missing commas everywhere.

By the end of page 3, again, absolutely nothing of interest has happened, and because of that, I'm gone.

Now, don't get me wrong - in terms of this being your first script, it's not terrible by any means, but it's not going anywhere and there's nothing that makes me want to continue.  You need  to understand that you have to do something to get your reader's attention, and you're already 33% done with your script, and zippo.

Work on your story.  Work on your sentence structure.  Not a bad start, but keep on reading and writing and you'll get there, mate.  Hope this doesn't come across too harsh and helps some.

Best to ya.

I'm sorry but I sorta dug this!  I read through the comments and wasn't expecting it to amount to much, but, dammit, it read quick and had a good feel to it.

Any errors didn't distract from the read. Sure, it was nothing original, but hey I liked it!

Steve, good on you for doing heaps of reviewing since u came onboard. If this is your first script then you have picked up some info onsite

Cheers stevie.

Steve

I read this on the blindside so apologies if I repeat what others have already said.
You seem to be doing your fair share of reading on the boards including my own latest script so I had to return the read.

I would drop one of the repeated use of “already” in Gordon’s opening two blocks of dialogue, perhaps the first one.

The page margins seem a little too near the top and bottom of the page, you might need to check your formatting software.

The writing is clean and terse, a lot of white space and very little superficial details. I would look to dropping the use of “and” in the prose though whenever a comma can be used. I believe it makes for a smoother read and frees up space. It may seem like a small thing but it makes a difference on the whole.

As for the story itself, I thought it was ok, a light, throwaway read, good fun with an outrageous, unexpected punch line. I liked the character of Gordon, real smarmy SOB who rightly gets his comeuppance. Michael, on the other hand, was a bit of a blank canvas, not much to him other than being Gordon’s sidekick, he didn’t have much to say or offer.

You could pick apart the final reveal and wonder why Gordon’s Wife was in the club for that period of time and hadn’t contacted her husband. We know she knows he’s in there from the phone conversation in the queue so it’s a bit risky to be scoring with some random guy on the dance floor. Maybe she was getting revenge for her husband’s cheating ways and saw the chat up line sequence with Steve play out so decided to stir the pot. From what you give us we don’t know so it can be assumed she’s just as loose with her nuptials as her philandering spouse.  Anyway, I think that’s missing the point, it was a surprise and worked relatively well because of this unpredictability.

Let me know if you’ve got any other work on the boards and I’ll check it out. I would like to see something with a bit more meat on it from you.

Col.

Just a big thank you to everyone for leaving feedback, it’s much appreciated. There’s been quite a lot since I was last on this thread so will try best to answer back individually.

Ed,
Thanks for your opinion, I know from your work and how much you contribute that it’s always going to be fantastic feedback from yourself. I honestly knew about that comma after I posted and I was so angry with myself for not catching it but nobody had mentioned it yet so thought I had got away with it but there you go noticing it straight away. The orphan I hadn’t noticed so thanks for pointing it out.

Chris,
Thanks for the detailed page revision, I’m sorry that you felt it was pointless but for myself it was a great writing exercise and I thoroughly enjoyed writing it as it was my first experience. I haven’t read any of your work sorry to say but please pm me if there is anything you would like me to have a look at for a return read.  I would be happy too.

James,
Again the same as Chris I haven’t read any of your work so thank you for leaving feedback. I will be only too happy to look at any if you wish so just pm me or I will look out for some. I agree about it being shorter and originally it was but one habit I seem to have at the moment is to just keep adding, it’s an addiction I tell you!

Andrew,
Cheers for the feedback, it didn’t sound British to you? Have I been away that long! Using the barmaid is an intriguing prospect and something to certainly think about later on. Thank you for the kind comments

Jeff,
You don’t come across as harsh, just honest and I appreciate that but only three pages man! I actually thought I had done well with my grammar but now…I’m even worried to write this feedback in case it’s spelled wrong. I very much thank you for the honest and brutal feedback. It feels like I’ve entered the boxing ring for the first round and you’ve given me a massive right uppercut and I’m dazed but I’ll be back, maybe I’ll get you to read 4 pages on my next one…a big maybe though. Thanks. I do actually have Fade to White on my shortlist to read but I think I will be making it past page 3. Good on ya mate.

Stevie,
Thanks for the nice comments, they read even nicer after the previous comments from Jeff, good timing my friend. It’s much appreciated even though you’re a saints fan.

Col,
I did read your script so I know how talented you are. I agree about the “already” by Gordon, it would be read better. I’m not sure about the page margins? Could you explain that please mate? Michael was the sidekick and underused but I didn’t want to extend this any longer than it was, I thought he worked well beside Flash but I know he needed more depth. I do appreciate the kind words you had to say, they mean a lot and I will look at giving some more of your work a look. Thanks again Col.

Right, I think I covered it all. Thanks again to everyone for leaving feedback, I hope to take this and improve with my next work and get Jeff to page 4, it’s a mission but I'll give it a go.  

OK, Steve, I felt guilty and went back and finished it.

You continued to miss every comma associated with a name - that's something you should look into - when you use a name in dialogue, it's almost always set off by commas.

While we're talking about using names in dialogue...you used way too many, way too frequently.  It didn't sound natural.  Steve's dialogue sounded like he was a robot, BTW.

As for the entire script, I'd say there's about 4-5 pages worth of material here...tops.  You've included so many mundane, unnecessary action/description lines.  I think you should have developed Carly a little more, and even Gordon's alter ego, The Flash, or at least had Steve or someone comment on the name - "Flash Gordon".

But, the biggest issue (other than very little happens, as I said in my original post), is that this is a 1 trick pony...all a setup for a final punch line joke.  And the believability of all this is pretty low.  I mean, c'mon now...Gordon and Michael see who Steve's with on the dance floor - why wouldn't one of them intervene?  Why wouldn't Gordon go crazy when he finds out his wife is not only cheating on him, but with a loser like Steve, of all peeps?  I don't buy it, and because of that, it's not that funny to me.  Taking that a step further, are we to believe that Gordon's wife got so turned on dancing with Steve, that she just decided to tell him she wanted to blow him and that she likes to swallow?  Again, I don't think so.  IMO, it would be much more effective if Steve hooked up with the wifey, and then got together with the boys the next day, and showed pictures of her first of all, and then used the "...and she swallowed, too" line.

Hey, as for reading Fade, I'd wait on that.  I've been in a rewrite mode on that for awhile, but haven't finished it.  The draft on the boards is very old and the current draft isn't finished and not in readable form.  If you want to read a feature of mine, go for Unforgettable, but PM me, and I'll E-Mail you the final draft, as there are some additions that definitely make a difference.

As I said earlier, this is definitely a solid first attempt at a script, bro.  Keep at it.

Steve, I don't agree with all of Jeff's points.

Yes, it's a one trick pony, but that's acceptable in a short, and probably even desirable.

That they don't intervene on the dance floor is not at all out of the realm of possibility and is arguably consistent with their characters. These are shallow clubbers, all of them. I've seen this kind of thing in person. Flash is a shallow guy, and at heart, he's made of paper. Doesn't shock me at all that he doesn't intervene, because for a guy like that, it's embarrassing.

She's cheating with a loser like Steve because he has the great line, which is kind of the point here. Is that likely? No. But it does happen. There are woman in clubs attracted to that.

Are there woman who after one dance want to leave with a guy, and tell them they'll swallow. Yup. You betcha. This woman knows what she wants. She has limited time. She's done this before. She doesn't waste time. She's been drinking, she ain't shy. I ran a bar/club a long time, and I'm your standard Catholic HS guy, so it always shocked me a little to see this stuff, but I saw it all the time. ESPECIALLY with married couples. But more importantly, they're your characters. As long as they are self consistent, it works. And I think that's the point. Flash probably used a chat up line like this to get his wife. So it's no surprise when the same line, used by someone else, works again. That's the irony in play here. Pretty good for a first story.

Quoted from leitskev Yes, it's a one trick pony, but that's acceptable in a short, and probably even desirable.

Uhhh, I beg to differ.

If you're talking about a visual 1 trick pony or payoff, I wouldn't argue, but we're talking about a spoken 2 word phrase, being the payoff here.

It doesn't help that it's spoken by a secondary character, and the fact that it's about a character we don't even see, or know, is the real killer.

Kevin may have been a bar owner most of his adult life, but I was a bar/nightclub aficionado most of mine.  Yeah, anything goes and everything is possible, but the points I brought up deal with probability.  The ending here is completely for the sake of serving the script and setup, and ending on that 1 liner.  The boys haven't been in the bar long. It's just after 10:00 PM.  Steve danced with the wifey 1 frickin' time.  He's an unattractive, sweaty loser.  The wifey's a hottie.  This 1 + 1 does not add up to 2 here...IMO, that is.

It's basically 9 minutes of nothing with no resolution, ending on a joke line.  If you were developing your characters because something was going to happen to them, that's cool, but in this case, the development (what little there is) is wasted on a non-ending.

But,a s I said twice before, for a first effort, this ain't bad.