I agree with you Dm, but some people (mainly critics) hold what Daniel is saying to be true.

I think the fact we are voting for the genre here tends to suggest we are not following such a critical hardline.

Quoted from elis Maybe the genre showing the least amount of votes should get chosen.

I’m surprised no one has considered that Don was looking for the least voted for genre all along. That would teach everyone -- haha.

Personally, I like to think I’m up for the challenge whatever it is. I don’t personally like writing Noir but I’m not afraid of it either. If that’s the genre, I’ll do my best. And honestly, a good Noir script will sound great read aloud on iScripts - much better than an Action for example - because the voice overs will be much more conducive to the medium.

I still think Don should go with the least voted, though.


Breanne

I know some critics are very rigid about film-noir, but they're mostly strict conservatives (not the political sense of the word). I know people who make the same claim as Daniel and every time I ask them the question I just posed, they refer me to their film professor who told them. And every time I ask them "Did you ask him why?" they brush me off as if I'm silly to question him/her.

I'm not saying this is the case with Daniel, but just that this has been my experience, and the notion that a style of cinema can only be made within a certain timeframe simply doesn't make sense to me.

You can very legitimately make the claim that the (first) wave of noir is finished, but the style lives on. There are movie that are living proof of that.

Quoted Text I'm not saying this is the case with Daniel, but just that this has been my experience, and the notion that a style of cinema can only be made within a certain timeframe simply doesn't make sense to me.

Nor me. It can't be the time frame that is the crucial thing because otherwise any film from that era would be "film noir" so style and content must at least come into it.

You could argue that the time frame AND content/style are what define Film Noir, but why would you want to make the genre so restrictive?

Besides the content of the films changes substantially from film to film.

No other genre would be considered by such restraints.

Is Resivour Dogs film noir? If so, that's set in the 90's, isn't it?

The thing I always thought was that noir was more of a director's choice, and not really about the story.

If it's between noir and pinot noir, I'd rather have the pinot.

Film Noir is more of an era rather than a genre. And it ended in the late 50's.

Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir#1950.E2.80.931958

Yes -- if you read it on wikipedia then it must be true.

So what about CHINATOWN? I'd call that a film noir, and yet it was made in the 70s.

BRICK tried to be a film noir, but I think it failed.

Daniel, please quit spewing your opinions like they're fact. Thanks.

Quoted from Alfred Hitchcock Film Noir is more of an era rather than a genre. And it ended in the late 50's. Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir#1950.E2.80.931958

That's one view. One that I contest. An era is defined by the films made in it. There was an era were there were made a lot of film noir movies; this we call the film noir era. If suddenly tomorrow people started making 20 film noirs a year we'd have a new film noir era. So it's reverse logic to say that the era a film is made in defines what type of film it is.

I.e.

It's the film noir era.

We know this because there are a lot of film noir films.

But how do we know a film is film noir?

Because it's made in the film noir era, of course!

...

So what makes a movie distinctively film noir must lie in its substance; its tone, its atmosphere, its plot, its characters, its themes. And can these elements be created today? In any time-period? Absolutely.

Therefore (don't make me QED ) film noir must be a style, and if it's a style it can be recreated, and it has been.

So, this is why I find the notion that film noir cannot be made any longer ludicrous.

Quoted from Death Monkey So what makes a movie distinctively film noir must lie in its substance; its tone, its atmosphere, its plot, its characters, its themes. And can these elements be created today? In any time-period? Absolutely. Therefore (don't make me QED ) film noir must be a style, and if it's a style it can be recreated, and it has been. So, this is why I find the notion that film noir cannot be made any longer ludicrous.

Yes, but (I don't know why) they don't call it film noir no more.

Just repeating what I've heard from bigger film noir fans than myself.

And also, I heard from a bigger expert than me on IMDb when I asked the same question, no, Chinatown isn't Film Noir but neo noir 'cause it's in color and not made in the era.

Wikepedia may not be dependable but IMDb is.

A list of neo noirs from IMDb sorted from A-Z:

http://www.imdb.com/keyword/neo-noir/?sort=alpha

You'll notice that Chinatown is on it along with Dark City, Sin City, Reservoir Dogs and Angel Heart.

And a list of film noirs if you're interested:

The best
http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/average-vote

The rest (hehe)
http://www.imdb.com/List?genre.....-Noir/include-titles

I went through them all and I couldn't find a single one made later than 1958. It is possible though that we're missunderstanding each other and I'm reffering to "classic film noir".

Oh, and by the way, don't be insulting or sarcastic, ABSteel, we're having a discussion, we're not 10.

What difference does it make if it's classic or neo?

I don't think it matters.

Quoted from Alfred Hitchcock Wikepedia may not be dependable but IMDb is.

Oh, Lord -- don't even get me started on that one....

It is all semantics anyway.  Potato, potahto.  There is no definitive resolution to be found here.

Yet another reason film noir would be a less than ideal genre -- every single script thread will have one guy going, "This isn't noir!" and another guy going, "Sure it is!"

Quoted from Alfred Hitchcock Yes, but (I don't know why) they don't call it film noir no more. Just repeating what I've heard from bigger film noir fans than myself. And also, I heard from a bigger expert than me on IMDb when I asked the same question, no, Chinatown isn't Film Noir but neo noir 'cause it's in color and not made in the era. Wikepedia may not be dependable but IMDb is. A list of neo noirs from IMDb sorted from A-Z: http://www.imdb.com/keyword/neo-noir/?sort=alpha You'll notice that Chinatown is on it along with Dark City, Sin City, Reservoir Dogs and Angel Heart. And a list of film noirs if you're interested: The best http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/average-vote The rest (hehe) http://www.imdb.com/List?genre.....-Noir/include-titles I went through them all and I couldn't find a single one made later than 1958. It is possible though that we're missunderstanding each other and I'm reffering to "classic film noir". Oh, and by the way, don't be insulting or sarcastic, ABSteel, we're having a discussion, we're not 10.

Why do you feel Imdb is dependable when Wikipedia is not? Neither is peer-reviewed. Imdb does not supply the reader with information about who the contributors are, the reason for genre-choice and whether or not it's disputed. this is not the make of a reliable source.

Don't get me wrong, there's lots of good intel on Imdb, but we must question any opinion or verdict that's not backed up by evidence. Especially when there are conflicting takes on this out there.

For instance in Joan Copjec's Shades of Noir the style or genre is retheorized and it examines the boundaries of film noir in modern cinema because it asks: Is film noir merely a body of work or is it a style with specific elements?

If you've got access to JSTOR you can read a resume/review of it here:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0015-1386%28199423%2948%3A1%3C57%3ASONAR%3E2.0.CO%3B2-7

Calling something neo-noir is often just a way of saying a film is film noir but not from the era film noir was flourishing. Now since film noir is an option is this poll, and we don't live in 1958, whatever scripts we write in this style will be neo-noir by this definition.

However, neo-noir is still film-noir. Just like retro-punk is still punk.

My point is, instead of just saying "well my professor/"film noir film friend"says so, so that's it, we should question why, and if there are no ready answers then maybe the definition is wrong.

Quoted from bert Oh, Lord -- don't even get me started on that one.... It is all semantics anyway.  Potato, potahto.  There is no definitive resolution to be found here. Yet another reason film noir would be a less than ideal genre -- every single script thread will have one guy going, "This isn't noir!" and another guy going, "Sure it is!"

That's a valid concern. I think film noir entails a heap of trouble for these and other reasons.