Can someone  please give me a simple definition of Noir?! I'm feeling really left out and am in desperate need of a hug...

~Zack~

Quoted from mcornetto I still think you haven't proven a thing.  Those movies all sound the same.  The outcome is the same. They are set in similar time period, which is MANY years ago.  They have the same sort of characters.  Granted they have little differences - but not much in my book.  Sunset Blvd and Touch of Evil are great movies.  Leave it at that and MOVE on.

Well, like I said, the burden of proof is on the accuser. Why don't you prove that they sound the same, before you ask us to disprove it?

Quoted Text They are set in similar time period, which is MANY years ago.

While most film noir is set in the 30s-40s-50s (which isn't one time periode, mind you - just like the 70s-80s-90s isn't "one") this is because this is when noir bloomed. So they are in fact contemporary. From the list I supplied there's Sin City and Dark City -and I could throw in Blade Runner and anumber of sci-fi-noir flicks (Gattaca, the Thirteenth Floor) - who aren't set in this era. Beyond that there's The Usual Suspects, Blood Simple and Body Heat just off the top of my head.

Is that proof that not all noir flicks are set in "the same" time period?

Quoted Text And my little "childish" (as you call it) rant is not particularly directed at movies that were made during this time period, when the genre was fresh.  But at modern mimicking of this genre.  And especially at having to read many scripts that mimic this genre.  1 or 2 would be cool.  But to read twenty written by people that have varying experience with the genre is a nightmare.  They will be 1. outdated 2. sound the same. 3. be utterly predictable.   You want to read them. Fine. Go for it.

Thank you kind sir.

Your rant was childish because you basically came off as saying "Well, if it's noir, then I'm not gonna do it!" and made it seem somehow irresponsible to vote for noir because it doesn't encompass as much as "thriller" does. Well, that's the challenge, I'd say. What the hell is challenging about writing a genre that has no tangible characteristics - none that I'm aware of anyway? Thriller is too broad and too easy.

Quoted from Zack Can someone  please give me a simple definition of Noir?! I'm feeling really left out and am in desperate need of a hug... ~Zack~

Like Rick said, Noir is a style. It's often very evident in the actual lighting and cinematography, but on a writing-level it's traditionally characterized by a number of character-types and basically has a bleak outlook on life. the police are either corrupt or inept, the hero doesn't want to save anyone, the dame doesn't want to love anyone, and the villain is often quite pathetic when it comes to it.

The style is rife with revenge motifs and the moral of the story (if there is one) is often that you can't change the world, the world changes you.

There is no simple way of putting it, except to say if you haven't seen a noir film, you progbably can't write one.

I actually think the final lines of Seven sums up the noir mantra nicely: "Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part."

That's an optimistic noir.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir

So you can write a noir... and still have it a slasher?(so to speak)

In theory, I guess...but I can't really imagine it. Often film noir deals with what comes after the crime, so it's about finding the killer, not the actual murders.

Quoted from Death Monkey Well, like I said, the burden of proof is on the accuser. Why don't you prove that they sound the same, before you ask us to disprove it?

Well let's see, I made a statement. You accused me of being uneducated and said my statement wasn't true.  Sounds to me like you are the accuser.  So by your rules, you need to prove it.

Quoted from Death Monkey While most film noir are set in the 30s-40s-50s (which isn't one time periode, mind you - just like the 70s-80s-90s isn't "one") this is because this is when noir bloomed. So they are in fact contemporary. From the list I supplied there's Sin City and Dark City -and I could throw in Blade Runner and anumber of sci-fi-noir flicks (Gattaca, the Thirteenth Floor) - who aren't set in this era. Beyond that there's The Usual Suspects, Blood Simple and Body Heat just off the top of my mind.

Look at IMDB and see what is considered Noir.  Here's a link mate http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/

Quoted from Death Monkey Is that proof that not all noir flicks are set in "the same" time period?

Film Noir.  Bring it.

Quoted from mcornetto Well let's see, I made a statement. You accused me of being uneducated and said my statement wasn't true.  Sounds to me like you are the accuser.  So by your rules, you need to prove it.

Really?

So if you accuse me of murder and I say "you're wrong, I didn't do it" the burden of evidence lies with me because I'm 'accusing' you of being wrong?

Please.

You made a claim which you didn't back up and then starting telling everyone to disprove your claim when they told you it was baseless.

Furthermore, I DID supply proof why were being uneducated so your analogy fails on all fronts.

Quoted Text Look at IMDB and see what is considered Noir.  Here's a link mate http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/

I think we're all quite familiar with the Imdb. Now, is there anything, specifically, you want to paraphrase from the the top 50 to back up any part of your argument?

One more question. Was the original Pyscho a film noir?

I wouldn't call Psycho noir personally, no.

Here's my guess as to what the theme will be...

"buying useless crap you don't need."

Everyone is trying to figure out what 's in the picture, when I don't think the picture has anything to do with it at all! Ignore the picture! Read the text.

~Zack~

The list on the IMDB website is from the classical film noir period.

You can argue critically that nothing made since that period can be called film noir, however it doesn't prevent you from writing in a similar style.

Quoted from Death Monkey Really? So if you accuse me of murder and I say "you're wrong, I didn't do it" the burden of evidence lies with me because I'm 'accusing' you of being wrong? Please. You made a claim which you didn't back up and then starting telling everyone to disprove your claim when they told you it was baseless. Furthermore, I DID supply proof why were being uneducated so your analogy fails on all fronts.

I didn't see any proof.  Just a list of movie vs movie that actually made zero sense at all.

I am not accusing you of murder but you are accusing me of being inaccurate, uneducated, and childish.  I am neither of the three.  Matter of fact - I haven't accused you of anything.  All I did was make a statement about Film Noir.    

Quoted from Death Monkey I think we're all quite familiar with the Imdb. Now, is there anything, specifically, you want to paraphrase from the the top 50 to back up any part of your argument?

Take a look for the movies you mentioned in the alphabetical index and tell me how many are on the list of Noir films.  You won't find a movie made past 1960 on that list.

Mcornetto

So you are effectively saying that no-one has made a film noir script in over 40 years?

I don't think you really believe that do you?

How about Sin City. Is that a film noir?