Quoted from mcornetto I didn't see any proof.  Just a list of movie vs movie that actually made zero sense at all.

You say: All noir is the same!

I say: These movies aren't the same.

So first of all, why don't you supply proof of you initial claim before jumping on everybody else's throats?

Secondly, do you contest that these films aren't the same? Do you believe them to all sound the same? 'Cause if you honestly do, I will tell you why they're not, but I don't wanna write an essay unless you actually disagree with me.

Quoted Text I am not accusing you of murder but you are accusing me of being inaccurate, uneducated, and childish.  I am neither of the three.  Matter of fact - I haven't accused you of anything.  All I did was make a statement about Film Noir.

That's why it's an analogy. Let me condense it:

You make a claim. You dont' back it up.

People challenge your baseless claim.

You tell them to prove that it's baseless, without yourself having supplied proof of anything.

You see why this irks some people?

In the court-room analogy you initial claim is what needs to be defended, as it's not a self-evident truth. You need to explain, or supply examples HOW/WHY noir is all the same, boring and stupid, before you can ask anyone else to DISPROVE it. Just like a (murder) trial, if you will.

it goes back to what we consider proper debate etiquette. that something isn't true until proven untrue. We must assume that something's untrue until proven the opposite.

I found your statement uneducated and I told you why. I found your attitude extremely childish and I told you why.

Quoted Text Take a look for the movies you mentioned in the alphabetical index and tell me how many are on the list of Noir films.  You won't find a movie made past 1960 on that list.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0340855/

The imdb also suggest the films Ichi the Killer, Tightrope and Basketball Diaries as similar films for Monster (2003).

Imdb, like wikipedia, is a good stepping stone to film, but not a peer-reviewed source and it doesn't disclose how it determines genre.

So are you really saying that there hasn't been made a film noir flick in 67 years?

Quoted from Death Monkey http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0340855/ The imdb also suggest the films Ichi the Killer, Tightrope and Basketball Diaries as similar films for Monster (2003).

What does this link have to do with Film Noir.  Imdb lists the Genre of this film as Biography / Crime / Drama / Romance.

Quoted from Death Monkey Imdb, like wikipedia, is a good stepping stone to film, but not a peer-reviewed source and it doesn't disclose how it determines genre.

Are you saying that IMDB genre assignments are wrong?

That's it. Going to bed.  

Film noir is not a Genre.

The quote below is fom filmsite.org

Important Note: Strictly speaking, film noir is not a genre, but rather the mood, style, point-of-view, or tone of a film. It is also helpful to realize that 'film noir' usually refers to a distinct historical period of film history - the decade of film-making after World War II, similar to the German Expressionism or the French New Wave periods. However, it was labeled as such only after the classic period - early noir film-makers didn't even use the film designation (as they would the labels "western" or "musical"), and were not conscious that their films would be labeled noirs.

I will agree with mcornetto on one salient point.

The turnout for this OWC is gonna be huge, I think...

AND I don't want to be faced with 40 Noir scripts where maybe 25% of the authors know what the heck they are doing with such a genre.

Maybe less.

Remember, scripts are anonymous.  You cannot pick an author you trust to deliver good noir.  You gotta look at the scripts cold.

Tiebreaker goes to Thriller or Action, I would say.

What's the point of even voting then?

If it's about just doing what the majority is good at then it seems a bit of a farce to me.

The challenge is surely to grow as a writer and to take yourself out of the comfort zone.

I'd be very disappointed if something people have legitimately voted for is cast aside on the whim of a moderator just because they can't be bothered reading them.

Particularly as the term Film Noir is so open-ended that you can do anything:

Even David Lynch has been described as Noir as he emphasises the dream like quality of that genre.

I get sent a lot of thrillers everyday and I'd rather not have to read any more of those.  

I agree with Bert here.

Just look at this thread. We don't even seem to be able to agree on what Film Noir is. How many people will actually be able to write one besides Phil?    

I say let's bring on the mockumentariies!  

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films What's the point of even voting then? If it's about just doing what the majority is good at then it seems a bit of a farce to me. The challenge is surely to grow as a writer and to take yourself out of the comfort zone.

Your point is very true. I just did the NYC challenge and was definitely taken out of my comfort zone with a mockumentary.
I actually voted for the film noir in this poll. The only thing that bugs me as I posted earlier is that it is not a genre and this is where I agree with mcornetto.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I'd be very disappointed if something people have legitimately voted for is cast aside on the whim of a moderator just because they can't be bothered reading them.

No dec, the final say isn't mine haha.  I do not have such power.  It was just a suggestion.

We would spend the whole week debating what noir really is.

And honesty, aside from bad comedy, is there anything more tedious than bad noir?

I also agree with Bert. Mostly because I still don't understand what film noir is...

According to the screewnwriters bible, "film noir (literally night film) describes both a genre and a shooting style - shadowy, cynical, and realistic- and a storyline that features ordinary people in over their heads, no heroes and villains per se, but generally a struggle betweengood and evil within the central character, often ending unhappily."


What time does the voting end? I'm so eager to write.

Gabe

Quoted from Zack I also agree with Bert. Mostly because I still don't understand what film noir is...

If it gets chosen you will find out quick enough. Research is an amazing thing  

Maybe the genre showing the least amount of votes should get chosen.

Quoted from elis If it gets chosen you will find out quick enough. Research is an amazing thing

But I don't wanna research... I wanna write!

Quoted from Zack But I don't wanna research... I wanna write!

You have to research to write
.

Wow this thread sure took an unexpected turn, wasn't the last batman kinda noirish, you can do a lot with noir, the hardest thing is to do it well.  Looks like the top one changes all the time, probably have to wait for the last minute.