Dialogue - Completely and totally unrealistic, unbelievable, and poorly done.

Marketability - If the year was 1973 or so, and this went through a major rewrite/overhaul, maybe it could work as an "After School Special" or an early Saturday morning show, but in terms of the big screen or DTV?  No way...nothing here at all that would interest anyone, of any age.

Jeff,
tell us how you really feel!!  

Just kidding of course. All input is valuable. I probably agree with most of your thoughts and I'm sure George is taking notes.

I think this could be made better though... maybe not feature on the big screen better, but if he still plans on shooting this, hopefully our comments have been helpful in making this the best it can be.  

If he tones down the drug use, I think it is marketable as a TV movie for young adults.  

I don't think it is marketable for adults or theatrical releases.

I didn't have much problem with the dialogue.    

A lot has already been said about character. Jenna it seemed was smart enough to not want to swear for no good reason, but too stupid to see Brad for what he really was.

The question is: Why? Most people get "feelings" about others.

I guess in this sense, we begin to reveal the truth here is that the story was built trying to make conflict, but the motivations behind everything are really weak.

Eric mentioned that killing off Brad at the end was an insult to the audience. I have to agree here and therein again lies the problem. We don't really "know" what the problem was with Brad. If he was an evil kid from the get-go, like when he was in kindergarten and we knew that, then maybe even then we can go along with it.

Perhaps then, the problem is in the set up? Set up is supposed to everything, so maybe that's where it's flawed and it's causing problems throughout the script. Right off the bat, Alex is getting a beating, and then there's some dialogue that reveals Alex and Brad's strange relationship. I guess it's never really explained.

I mentioned this before, but I think that it's their relationship that needs to be explored more and this would indeed be a different story.

I'm going to point out an instance where Brad's character is not being properly revealed through dialogue.

On page 17 Brad says, "It's endearing, anyway."

That stuck out for me and I was thinking that he wouldn't say that. I don't think Brad knows the meaning of the word.

I notice that there's been some weight to Colin's character in this with his cutting that he does. Look at this:

He walks to his desk and sits. He pulls a photo album out of
the desk, and looks at it. At this point, the pictures are
for his eyes only. He lays the book open on the desk, its
contents remaining a secret.

He reaches into another drawer and takes out a pocketknife.
He uses a small sharpening stone to give the knife a nice
razor edge. He retrieves a towel from under the desk and lays
it on his lap.

He raises a sleeve, revealing several scars and cuts on his
arm. He makes a small incision across his arm drawing blood.
He winces from the pain, but his face reveals pleasure behind
it.

Part of our discernments include the ability to know what needs to bear weight and when. I think this script is too short for a secondary character to get this much time. It seems to me that if anyone should be getting this much page space, it should either be Alex or Brad.

I did enjoy though and appreciate the attempt here and it's intriguing. I just think that it doesn't work right now due to the circumstances of the script as a whole.

As far as the girls characters went, I found them unbelievable. As I mentioned, Jenna appears blind. Her sister I thought should be a lot younger.

Much of the dialogue seemed flat to me.

Laura laughs and looks at her watch.

"Hey, I gotta go. Jenna wants the squad to practice before the game tonight."

"Sure, no problem."

The way it felt to me sometimes was that there was no intensity.

If we had some kind of emotion injected into it, it would help a lot.

Maybe,

Laura hiccups after having a few too many swigs of Alex's vodka.

"Hey, you wanna see an old picture of Brad that'll make you laugh your socks off?"

Laura looks down. Alex is sockless.

"Well, the next thing would be pants. Let's go with that."

**What I'm getting at here is trying to make each bit of dialogue or anything at all bear weight. In this case, if Laura is about to show Alex an old "funny" picture of Brad, it keeps us interested because we want to see it. Secondly, we see them both sharing a joke on Brad. Might we feel a hint of sympathy for him then? I don't know.

I'll leave it be at that for now.

Sandra

And that Colin cutting scene is another example.  It's sort of seems arbitrary. Kind of implying Colin is an Emo when his actual behaviour doesn't indicate that at all.  I think this kind of discrepancy can be found throughout the script.  I think it's an attempt to bring some kind of depth to the characters by putting in contradictory behaviours.  But it doesn't work because I don't believe these kids would behave like that.  Either the setting needs to change or the kids behavior needs to be brought in line with the actions.  Or maybe it is the dialogue that's throwing me off.  Maybe it needs to be a bit more hip.      

Colin's behavior is very serious too... but somehow I didn't even remember it until you mentioned it. I think that shows somethings wrong regarding his character.

I have asked George to chime in and I'm sure he will.

I want to thank all of you who participated and also want you to know that your participation greatly increases your chances of having a script discussed here.

If it seems harsh.... just know that it's all intended to be in the author's best interest and it's also free.

I think we should keep going with this and wait for George to step in.

Quoted from Dreamscale Sure, a kid can be a stoner and still be smart, but the way Alex is portrayed...as drinking vodka from a bottle and burning doobs in his room, I just don't see it at all.

I don't know about this.  Weed is different from partying with alcohol.  You smoke all the time, you don't feel like doing anything but smoking-- and most kids like that in HS don't do to good (I'm not speaking for everyone, though)-- however, I know a lot of people who balanced out their grades and drinking just fine.

There are many things wrong with the Characters and I think there have been some really good points made in these last posts that would hopefully help George with a re-write as he mentioned he is not against doing.

I understand why George added smoking pot to the mix for Alex...it was used to threaten Alex and place the blame on him...but it's almost like it was an addition in order to make it work...it just doesn't ring true to his character.  He seems to analyze Brad's behavior...and even understand him...until Brad's evil side takes over.

There are portions of the characters that seem present day...and then at other times we're back in 1973.  It's a time warp for sure...

I didn't like Brad taking his life...because I trully don't think he would do that based on all his other actions up to this point.  He's way too stuck on himself...I think he would more likely be in denial and still be trying to claim how cool he is while the cops take him away.

There are a lot of missing elements needed to bring the pieces of this puzzle together...on a positive note...it was short and has a lot more time available in order to connect the dots and write a more compelling story.

Or...as Dreamscale says...or not   

Let's imagine this script were to be overhauled completely. What would you do with it?

Since Alex is supposed to be a "good guy", maybe Brad might try and bring him over to the dark side and partially succeed.

How might he do this? How about with some bate? Laura. With dialogue like:

"Come on man! She doesn't even know you exist? Hang out with us. Be a player. A real piece like Laura doesn't want a pretty boy, she wants a bad boy."

He roughs Alex up playfully. Throws a jab, knocks him back some, rumples his shirt, picks up a wad of dirt and smears his face and shirt so that Alex looks like he's been in a brawl.

"How's it feel to beat up Brad Rocker eh? Feel good? I'll go with it, but you gotta help me out with my homework. Deal?"

I think with something like this, there's some real motive playing out. I think that if a guy is truly in love with a girl, (which Alex is capable of and Brad is not) he is willing to do almost anything.

If we can imagine that Brad begins leading Alex down the wrong path, then we might have a character arc happening and the pot smoking might make sense. We'd see his decline. And this is interesting because this really does happen in life. Good people make the wrong choices and it's often because they want to be accepted or in Alex's case, he thinks that wearing the rough tough mask will work to get Laura to notice him.

Maybe it works opposite, and this could be the first obstacle. Laura rejects Alex, and Alex says,

"Come on baby! I know a woman like you loves a little rough play."

And maybe she does. Maybe you draw up a scene where she feels it, but it's very veiled. The tension is there and she allows something, but then she changes her mind. This too I could see happening. But that's me. I don't know what you might think on this.

Sandra

I too think Brad went down a little too easy.

I like Morgan's idea of having him act cool as ice when the cops haul him off.  He's definitely that type -- rob a church and deny it til the end, even though he has a wreath hanging half-way out his ass.

Well, first, I want to thank those of you who read it, whether you liked it or not. also, negative or not, the feedback told me quite a bit about the script. It's actually a bit strange. There were those who really liked it, those who really hated it, and those who liked it but felt it needed some work. With few exceptions, it appeared to be very easy to read despite its shortcomings.

So it appears to be a well-written, poorly written script...if that's possible.

Some comments I made on Monday as I was reading the comments left:

I will say this has been useful primarily because you guys overthink a lot of stuff. There are actually some really simple answers to a lot of issues posed (on Monday). This doesn't mean I'm not taking this seriously, but I thought by issuing the logic behind some of the stuff you'd commented on, it would at least show I didn't just churn out some garbage without any thought behind it.

Why did I write this? Someone asked me to. We discussed the story and characters and I wrote the script. I do have a fondness for it despite its weaknesses and feel it has potential. It was actually written characters first. He said there was this and this and this for a basic plot and characters. I took those concepts and figured out what every character would do throughout the storyline and just weaved them all together. It has been several years since I wrote it, and it clearly needs some work.

Why no adults? Because the guy I wrote it for was fourteen at the time and so his cast was going to be around that age as well. Originally, Jenna was 16, and Kelsey was 12 meaning Jenna was technically still not old enough for Basic Instinct, but Kelsey was a bit young for it as well. I increased the ages of several of the characters, but rewrote several things to accomodate that here and there as well. So there were no adults because the cast wasn't going to have any adults. Not the first time it's come up.

What's with the Basic Instinct conversation? Does Kelsey really take the whole R-rated thing seriously? Of course not. She knows full well that Jenna is only feeding her that garbage to get her out of the room, and before Jenna was drawn away, she was willing to oblige, but didn't appreciate the talking-down routine. Jenna does have a bit of a diva attitude, and while Kelsey does idolize her, the whole R-rated thing didn't sit well with her.

So what about Emma asking for Laura's place at the top of the pyramid?
Emma's bit with the top of the pyramid is intended to convey the shallow nature of some people in the face of tragedy. You'll not that entire conversation was rather light despite the fact that she's conveying some rather serious information to her team captain, indicating Emma  is playing the cheerleader stereotype of only considering herself and trying to get ahead in the wake of another's misfortune. It's also supposed to be funny. You'll note that Jenna didn't respond, likely because the gravity hit her a bit harder.

Brad friends with Alex? No. Not even secretly. Brad is a drug addict, and Alex is a convenient supplier. They were friends once, but that relationship is purely business. Brad became a jock, and dumped his rather bright friend.

How did Alex know where Brad was going to be? And how did he know he'd catch Brad "in the act"? That's easy. Brad told him. Before Kelsey dropped by, Alex had seen Brad in the park, and Brad bragged that he was going to be spending an evening with some girl, and quite fully explained his frustration with Jenna's not putting out. Now, kids don't have a wealth of places to have a quickie without parental influence, but given Alex's and Brad's history of knowing each other, Alex would have an idea as to where to find Brad. Apparently, since Brad was at home, he lacks some imagination and his parents go out occasionally. Hey, if my kids were in their late teens, I'd go out occasionally too.

What's with the talking mirror? Think about the Gollum/Smeagol exchanges. The mirror isn't talking back. Brad is talking to himself and he's responding to himself. It's a way to externalize an internal dialogue with a character that can't express his thoughts to anyone else. It's not all too uncommon, if you think about it. How many times does someone gointo the bathroom and to try and build some confidence, tell themselves that it's all right or "you can do this." Granted, most people don't respond to themselves, but Brad's got an ego, and likes to hear and see himself, so he's probably his own best friend too. Maybe I can expand upon that.

Why is there a Kelsey flashback if we know what happens? That is there for one reason. To show Brad talking to himself in the bathroom. It used to be in chronological order with everything else, but I felt it delayed the story too long so I moved it. I'm all for removing it, but then Brad would start talking to himself when he's in trouble near the end and it would seem like an afterthought. It seems like an afterthought now, but I need that mirror dialogue for Brad to work himself to his ending.

I ran out of room...

Part 2

Why does Brad give up so easily at the end? You have a good point. At that point in the story while we, as the audience, understand that Brad has irrevocably lost, Brad doesn't know that yet. He learns very rapidly that Jenna, who does have influence, knows the truth about not only Laura, but also that he had his way with her sister, something that won't sit well with anyone at school, regardless of any legal rammifications. He would understand that his reputation is destroyed since it would appear that some of his conquests were forced as opposed to consentual. He'd be a pariah in the locker room, no one would touch him again, and he'll have a mark on his record for the rape of at least Laura and probably Kelsey as well since it's likely the Portman family would press charges. After Brad's final line, there is an undetermined period of time where he simply sits on the ground watching them before he leaves. That's a lot of time to sort out what just happened, and come to the conclusions I've mentioned. It's very clear his reign is over, and he would know it. He does have a rather long "monologue" in the next scene where he works out what just happened to kind of replace the interior dialogue he would have endured sitting on the floor in the previous scene. That is truly the climax of his story and where he works out with finality what to do. Would he lash out at Colin and Alex? He could, but why would he? What purpose would it serve? I'm open to suggestions here, and perhaps these are far too many Cliff Notes and something is left out of the script detailing all this.

Why does you dialogue suck? Because dialogue is my weakest skill. In fact, for the feature I just wrapped, I gave the actors carte blanche on the dialogue telling them to say the lines however their character woud say them as long as the gist of the lines was conveyed. they did really good, and in many cases came up with better stuff than I'd written down.

Oh, and Dreamscale, negative feedback is more than welcome, but one of the rules is to back up any negative feedback with a reason why. To say "it all sucks" isn't constructive. There's no way it can all suck. But to the parts that do suck, please don't hold back. I want to know where they are.

Past Monday, it got a lot more in depth, and I was liking the comments coming out. I thought it was interesting that most of the realism complaint began with the background stuff as opposed to the plot itself. It seemed to take a little while before the scalpels really came out.

So I can see quite a few issues, and when I was thinking about it last night, I can see many of the illogical dualities you all were bringing up. I know who these characters are, but I was definitely writing them out of their own contexts at times, probably to please the other guy credited on the cover page. Well, as he's given me the go ahead to take it on as my own, I wanted to make sure it worked well, and I knew I was seeing the story I thought was pretty good, but likely overlooking some issues because I could explain them all away.

Here's one issue I have though, and I'm not sure how to correct it. One comment came out about the length of time it took to reach the first major turning point, that being Brad's attack on Laura. I took all that time to set up characters and relationships and I noticed how long it took before the Laura incident occurred. Moving the flashback managed to invalidate it, but as I mentioned above, I also needed Brad to talk to himself before the climax occurred. So without half the flick occurring in flashback (which might be necessary to move the story fast enough), I'm not sure it can come much sooner and still round out Laura's character before she's out.

So, in a nutshell, I need the character to be true to themselves, I need the off screen action of the investigation, I need more depth to each of them (yes, there are secondary characters, but I want them as fully fleshed as everyone else), and I need to ensure that each element is current right down to gadgets, technology, and current events. I do feel that the framework is fine, but we're talking more like Dreamscale's Charlie Brown analogy in that my framework is about where I'm starting.

What I'll probably do in the end is summarize the current script scene by scene, analyze the characters based on the feedback I've gotten, and then figure out how their days would really go, and how that would weave into the basic plot. I'm giving myself plenty of time to rewrite this one as I'm not shooting it next. It's not a winter story and I need outdoor shots.

I'm still open to the discussion, and feel free to refute any of my logic. I guess once this horse is beaten, we should figure out who the next victim is.

Again, you don’t have to actual show any adults for your characters to act there are adults around.


George what happens when the cops show up to the scene of the crime? Since all three boys end up in jail right away, the subtext suggest they were arrested at the scene of the crime, so what happened? Why didn't Alex point out the watch, than? Does the investigating cop get ahold of the watch? Does he ask around town? You don't have to show any of this on screen but it show through when you show the teens talking. Like the girl asking about the pyramid could say something about a detective asking her questions about Brad and Alex.


Battle scene: After, Alex catches Brad in the act of cheating on Jenna. It’s a foot race back to Jenna’s house where Alex, Colin and Kelsey confront Jenna with the evidence. Meanwhile Brad knows he’s in deep now. Beating on the door, wanting in, he tries to sweet talk a distraught Jenna to opening the door. When it doesn’t work he pretends to leave only to break in and terrorize the others. His motive they have evidence of his behavior and more damaging Kelsey’s testimony. The quick cat and mouse around the house, ending with Brad beating on Alex in the middle of the street when we hear cop SIRENS, doors OPENED and SLAMED shut, and someone yelling freeze. No adults have to be put on screen, yet the point is conveyed. Or you can have Brad slipping on a banana peel and knocking his head against something and dying. I don’t think he’d kill himself anymore than a Jason Vorhees would.


Afterwards cut to Alex at the hospital with Laura who explains after she woke up she told the cops her who done it and that it sounds like they got there just and time. And Alex saying, “no, if they would’ve been there on time this would of never happened to you.”

I understand the balance of screen time and I think it works pretty well. I personally see Kelsey as the real protagonist. And this is a well written script in that in read quickly and I got the images in my hand, but the story wasn’t up to par.


The motive for Colin to help Brad, I felt was weak. And makes Colin seem like a weaker character where otherwise he seemed OK. Though he started with his not believing Alex over Brad. It’s weird because Colin questions Brad about the tape and why he should help and destroys any real motive for him to help, but yet does help! It’s like wait what. Now, I think about it, I’m think why would Colin care, unless he was on the football team too and Brad made promises sort of like a freshman v. senior initiation/hazing typed deal.


BLB

Yeah, with the adult thing, I had them off screen, but you're right in that they need to be omnipresent in the characters' LIVES, whether they appear on screen or not. Even the most non-present parent is still "there" even when they're not.

I like the climax you suggest. The Colin interaction was another act of desperation on my part in trying to get him to Alex's house to talk to Kelsey. I couldn't think of any other reason for him to be there. What would make more sense is while Brad is convincing Jenna of his innocence, Alex could take Kelsey to Colin's to give her a chance to explain before they see Jenna. The trouble is that part would slow up the end plot. I just need to resolve that plot before hitting the ending, probably by Alex taking her to Colin's before taping Brad so the chase remains one. You're right in that Colin wouldn't care which is why that whole reasoning is so weak.

Another thought that came to me this morning is that I did pull a cardinal no-no in that I changed the characters to service the plot. When I considered the reasons for why the characters do certain things, it boils down to the plot more than themselves. It's along the lines of what I was saying earlier about the characters being true to themselves. Why is Alex doing and selling drugs? Well, look at the myriad of plot points that serves. He knows Brad as a customer; Brad can use it against him to keep him from talking about Laura; Alex plants the stuff at Brad's house later (well, that only gets him off the hook, and won't hurt Brad worse than the rape...).

I think I know how to correct Brad's character. He needs to be more like Bond in that he's the suave sophisticated bastard type that gets what he wants with an irresistible and shattering confidence. I think Alex will drop the whole drugs and alcohol thing since there are better ways for his plot to work. Jenna will be smarter, but while she will definitely suspect (and possibly know of) Brad's ways, he's so damn smooth with her that she can't stay mad at him. I think Kelsey is mostly ok. I'll shift her a tad younger, but most of her actions work (correct me if I'm wrong). Laura is barely there, but she does need to be a bit more of the cheerleader "type" towards Alex. Maybe she's the one that needs to be tutored instead of Colin (because she's nearly failing math and is on the verge of ineligibility for cheerleading -- hey, some people don't get math), where Colin would serve as a character parallel to Alex in a different type scene that would serve to build their characters better.

Another thing that probably needs to happen to move the story quicker and yet round everyone out is to get to the rape scene as fast as possible, which means most of Laura's character will be built in everyone's memories, and Kelsey's incident will likely occur either right at beginning or before the story begins, so she'd be stand-offish from Brad right from the get go.

Am I on any semblance of the right track?

Hey George,

I get the Gollum/Smeagol thing.  I just don't like it.  I didn't like it then, and I like it even less here.  It just comes off as cheap and gimmicky to me.  Too much tell, not enough show.

Also, i had a major problem with the convenience of Laura being beaten into a coma and unable to provide any answers as to what happened to her.  What if they all ended up at a house party together after the football game.  Laura gets a little f'ed up, passes out in an empty bedroom.  Alex walks in on Brad raping her.  COlin walks in on Alex walking in.  They report it to the police, but the police don't believe Laura because she was drunk, and because Brad is a big sports star with a rich father.  

It mihgt be more of an overhaul than you want to make, but i think makes it a bit more realistic.