Quoted from Grandma Bear I do think too many new people have started out kind of wrong and end up leaving. Which is a shame.

Remember the guy who came on here a while back and said that SS had a rep for being a place full of frustrated 'can't-be's just looking for people and scripts to tear down?

He was wrong, and we all told him so, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep an eye on that. I enjoy being a part of this community, but I don't like seeing newcomers scared off, no matter how sucky their first impression is. Which Angel's was.

Quoted from Ledbetter JonnyBoy My muddy friend, If I can ask you what contribution was made by Angel? Have you ever been in a group of people and in that group, one person made it a point to try and make themselves the center of attention? Don't we see it all of the time now on TV? I myself welcome any input no matter the uproar. I have been in the middle of a few of those arguments. Maybe this person should take a day off, regroup, and perhaps approach this as an opportunity to gain something. Nobody here (in my opinion) wants to scrap with one another over nothing. As for me sticking up for Jeff, I don't have to. Trust me, Jeff has proven ten fold he can stick up for himself. I simply wanted to assure this Angel person that others are watching and simply feel that his one day opinion may be a bit hasty. Shawn....><

'Muddy'? Err...thank you? You're muddy.

EDIT: Ah, the avatar. I get it. I think it's a stone statue, actually. Ren called me 'stony' a while back.

Quoted from JonnyBoy Remember the guy who came on here a while back and said that SS had a rep for being a place full of frustrated 'can't-be's just looking for people and scripts to tear down? He was wrong, and we all told him so, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep an eye on that. I enjoy being a part of this community, but I don't like seeing newcomers scared off, no matter how sucky their first impression is. Which Angel's was.

It's really Angel that caused this issue and not everyone else.  No one scared him off.  As a matter of fact several people tried very hard to make him feel welcome.    For all we know this could happen to Angel with every site he visits.

JonnyBoy
LOL,

Isn't it funny how we can see things the same yet different.

I thought you were mud covered. Sorry.

Shawn.....><

Quoted from mcornetto It's really Angel that caused this issue and not everyone else.  No one scared him off.  As a matter of fact several people tried very hard to make him feel welcome.    For all we know this could happen to Angel with every site he visits.

True, true. Just sayin', it's happened before. And it'll happen again.

IMO, this was completely caused by this prick, Angel.  Just a total dickhead.

I hope he stays around.  You know I enjoy a good go around, but it's obvious he was trying to instigate everything.  He's probably always like this.

And Jeff - Don't call people names.  It's against the rules.  You should know that.

Sorry, Michael.  I do know that, but definitely abuse it too often.

I apologize.

And I do mean what I said...I hope he sticks around and offers up his thoughts, advice, and whatever else he can.  Maybe this is Balt V3.  The V2 Balt liked me, I think, so this one may be the polar opposite.  Who knows.

Angel, I apologize if I said anything I shouldn't have.  C'mon back and write some serious reviews about what matters to you...what you have passion in.  Seriously.  No reason to run away now.

Read "The Door" and give an honest review of it that can help the writer.  That's my challenge to you, if you choose to accept it...

Here's the case cracker that this guy was a farce...

I looked into the thread "Senior Year", saw that NJ Devil didn't give Dressel any response for his review. So I posted that was a douche bag move. A coupla minutes after AoD said they had read it and didn't feel the need to comment since it was covered by others already. Click on the link. It's not there. Nor was it yesterday.

I called NJ devil out a bit.  Promptly removed by Bert. Fucker. But AoD was commenting on a script that has not re-posted yet that he read it. It's a blank link.

Angel is clearly someone who's been on these boards a bit. I can't even fathom how he's read all those so fast. Not to mention all of the comments on Jeff's fade. Would take me a months to read those.

Delete his fucking account. He's had his fun

James

Quoted from AngelofDeath Does anyone comment on something other than proper format?  Grammar?  Spelling...?  I haven't exactly read every post, but it seems like this site is very "Format-Lawyer" heavy, and a little light on the subject of Story.  I could be wrong here, but I thought that Story was kind of important.

You are right. Absolutely right and I speak about it all the time on here and hand-in-hand with story goes character. The two are inseparable for a truly good story.

Sandra

Back on topic...

Absolutely Sandra.

Know one is arguing that point.  The story is important, but nobody is going to get to the story... atleast someone of importance, if everything else isn't in order.  Format-- grammical-- ect.  Especially, if you want to make it, big time.  "Hollywood" is always looking for a reason, not to read a script.  If they see mistakes on the first couple of pages, guess what...you may have an Oscar winning script, but it's going in the trash bin.

To read a feature takes 2 to 3 hours.  That's a lot of time out of someone's day.  And to get bogged down with a badly formatted script, treading through mistakes, well you know the end result.  "Sorry, I couldn't get through this."  That's just a plan honest fact.

So if you want people to get to the story, well take care of the little stuff.  Even for a site like SS.  

Of course, I could be wrong in my thinking.  This thread is already too hot!!!  I'm out.

Ghostwriter

A little comic relief.  



I couldn't resist.  

Quoted from Dreamscale Read "The Door" and give an honest review of it that can help the writer.  That's my challenge to you, if you choose to accept it...

Man... why you draggin' my ass into this?  

Quoted from bert What you will find, Angel, given more time here, is that there are roughly two camps on these boards. There is the stern, old-school -- those that believe unconventional formatting, loose structure, and plot points that do not occur on a certain page will get you ash-canned by any potential producer. And there is a tentative new wave, that believes screenwriting as a medium of expression is a bit more fluid than that, and open to experimentation, provided there is a firm grasp of the basics (important!) and a compelling story to back it up. No matter where you go, inside or outside of the internet, this debate is unresolved and it depends entirely upon who you ask.  During the occasional clashes between these two camps, both make sound points that are hard to ignore. And I will go out on a limb and say that members of this new wave comment less.  They do not necessarily read less, but they comment less. Which is why you find so many format police.  Commenting on format is easy.  Certainly easier than breaking down a story.  And you can do it after only a few pages.  That is why so many do it.  I am not a fan, and I find it lazy, but I do understand it.  So should you.  Bitching about that ain't going to change anything.

=


Too bad this discussion turned into a dick measuring contest. AoD had a valid point and a valid question.

Wow... The things I miss when I don't look on here at night. From someone who was completely on the outside of the entire pissing contest, I really don't understand how it got to that. I mean, there must have been a lot of deleted posts or something because to me, there seemed to be a handful of comments and before I knew it, AoD decided he's leaving. I'm sitting here thinking, "what just happened?"

If I might comment on the overall plot of this thread, we began with what amounted to a combination of a question and a criticism from someone who is purportedly a new member. In my own head, I wonder if he was actually new since new members are rarely so bold. This logically moved into a general agreement that story is king. The first (perceived as) negative comment seemed to be issued by Ghostwriter who simply said that everyone here is a storyteller. AoD said we should act a certain way in response to this and then Cornetto pointed out that creative people tend to be a bit odd. Ghostwriter came back with a barrage of disagreement (as well as a sudden subplot from jwent about bert deleting his posts), and AoD felt his comments were a result of jealousy over the sheer number of posts he racked up. Then JonnyBoy both agreed with story but then pointed out that if he wants to comment on format, he will. It appeared to be a sort of tongue-in-cheek challenge there at the end when he said "bring it on" essentially saying that if AoD had an issue with his commenting on format to say so. AoD responded by not getting it.

There were a couple more calm posts before Dreamscale turned up and criticized what comments that AoD had left. Dreamscale appears to be AoD's target here because he seemed pleased that the thread drew DS out. That's when the real pissing game started because AoD repeated some of the negative comments he left on the Fade to White thread and DS criticized him for them. The side comments around this new contral conversation seemed pretty tame overall unless you took pieces of the comments out of context. For instance, one might say JonnyBoy asked AoD to leave if he didn't like it, but in the same post (if you keep reading) he welcomes AoD to stay.

Then DS starts challenging AoD. AoD shows off is measurements, and it really got banal after that for awhile. That's where the real conflict in this thread came out. Before that, there wasn't much to it. Each player continued the gripe session with ignorable comments from everyone else inbetween since neither participant was willing to let go of the last word.

After a brief reminder of jwent being impressed with bert's delete key, AoD got his last word by saying he's leaving. DS, predictably blamed AoD for starting this whole mess but hoping he'd stick around. Everyone else stood around asking what just happened.

Looking over the whole thing, AoD was direct, but not rude in what he originally said. Even after Ghostwriter's abrasive comments, this whole thing didn't go downhill until DS took the whole thing personally (that's the way the thread reads right now, sorry Jeff). AoD wasn't too dickish at any point, really, but he knew exactly how to push DS's buttons to evoke an explosive response, and I suspect he thoroughly enjoyed it. However, if one takes a step back, the conversation didn't turn until DS turned it that way.

So in the end, the instigator of the argument wasn't AoD, but DS. This wasn't totally his fault, Jeff, and he actually wasn't a total dickhead. Sure, he didn't end it, but your comments had more attack qualities than his did.

But that's where the story ended after a little denouement at the end where those left behind praised the original post and wondered why it went wrong. When these things come up, we gotta remember the Godfather rules: it ain't personal, it's business. Yes, some of us feel like these scripts are our babies, but anyone who makes a comment of any kind does take the time to do so, and even if you don't like the comments, take them at least with a grain of salt and don't gripe about it. It is far better to receive those negative comments now when you can easily fix it rather than after the movie is on screen when you can't.

That was excellent George.

Though I still think AoD was pushing those buttons, maybe not in this thread but definitely in a few others, and I ultimately believe he caused this issue.  Though I think a few others contributed they only did so because they were provoked.