Brave New World - Scripts of the 2WC

This was a hard one and a topic that engendered quite the lively discussion.

There are eleven scripts posted. I have not read any of them, yet. All the writers are active members of the discussion board. Some writers are at the round Earth's imagined corners, so it may be a week before he/she can weigh in.

Huge thanks to Mr. Blonde for coming up with this challenge.  And, thanks to ScriptWax for sponsoring the challenge by audio performing the "Writers Choice" script once it is selected.

The scripts of the Brave New World Two Week Challenge:

Create a realistic world where a certain major world event never happened. At the same time, the altered event is not your story, your story simply takes place in the altered world.

Signal Fire by Neil Percival Young - Short, Adventure - How will anyone find their way in a brave new world? 13 pages - pdf, format

A New Plan For Fat Man by Ny Name Here - Short, Drama - Leaders of the United States Armed Forces debate whether they should declare war with Germany or stay home and savor their victory in the Pacific. 11 pages - pdf, format

Fire and Water by Deep Throat - Short, Crime, Thriller, Drama, Political, Historical Fiction - Ben Bradlee's decision to ignore the Watergate break-in comes back to haunt him four years later as Woodward & Bernstein try to prevent the Presidency of E. Howard Hunt. 15 pages - pdf, format

Sapere Aude by Kant - Short, Adventure, War, Religion - The leader of a boys' club for troubled teens finds himself in a war with the most powerful, corrupt, cruel entity in the world, the unchecked Catholic Church. 12 pages - pdf, format

Miss Yemmie by Hollis Brown - Short, Drama - The Soviet Union's plan to restart its failed Sputnik Program prompts the United States to build a new space center at the remote home of an aging prostitute. 11 pages - pdf, format

Not Even God Himself by Buckwheat - Short, Sci Fi, Drama - When a travel agency undertakes the most ambitious voyage into space in the history of mankind, the men responsible are faced with the consequences of endangering a hundred thousand lives.  13 pages - pdf, format

Operation Downfall by Night Train - Short, Action - The atomic bombings against Japan never happened. The invasion of Japan did. 15 pages - pdf, format

The Broken Kingdom by Some Guy - Short, Fantasy, Historical - Set in an alternate timeline in which Guy Fawkes and his co-conspirators blew up parliament and overthrew the monarchy. On the 513th anniversary of this historical event, a French-American businessman, on his first visit to Great Britain, finds himself on the run and embroiled with terrorists after he inadvertently commits an act of heresy. 14 pages - pdf, format

The 13th Generation by E Pluribus Unum - Short, Comedy, Satire - Texting obsessions takes over a company's communication as a car designer gets a promotion.  15 pages - pdf, format

Full Circle by Don't Need No Stinkin' Logline - Short, Drama - {no logline}  11 pages - pdf, format

Olympic by The Sullivan Brothers - Short, War - Two US marines and two young schoolgirls must find a way to survive the American invasion of Japan.  14 pages - pdf, format

Wow, only 11 scripts! I see that I'm in the majority instead of the minority. Had an idea but didn't have time to finish. Will probably see it through and post it at a later date so thanks Sean for the challenge. Looking forward to reading all the entries. And congrats to all who entered, this was a very daunting task.

I'm tied up this weekend but I'll get around to reviewing these during the week. Looking forward to it and as there's only 11 I can take my time with them.

I reckoned there would be only about ten entries due to the tough challenge. Will read and review them all today -Sunday here for me lol

I think this is the least amount of entries I've seen for any challenge. Did most people not enter because of the requirements?

Does that beg the question of whether the requirements should be "easier" for lack of a better word, for the OWC to be more inclusive?

Just playing devil's advocate.

I have something half written, but I ran out of time. I needed too much time to research and world build. Two weeks for me, with my day gig and other stuff, is like 12 hours of free time. I think the time limit was constrictive on this one. But definitely one of the better constructed challenges I've seen.

Quoted from Warren

The record is five entries for the "Gay Star Trek" Themed challenge. I think the theme had something to do with the lack of entries.

One of the reasons for the few number of entries is that advertising for the challenge was limited in time - a few days, and scope - only within the discussion board. I like to keep the challenges limited to discussion board members (October OWC not withstanding) because it increases participation.

As for making the requirements 'easier', I'm all for variation in the themes - some easy, some hard. I'm also all for trying something new and I don't care if it flops. This is the place to experiment. The only 'failed' owc would be one one which there are no entries.

- Don

I did think it was a great concept.

Quoted from Don

The record is five entries for the "Gay Star Trek" Themed challenge. I think the theme had something to do with the lack of entries.

- Don

I need to read these scripts, cause Star Trek isn't camp enough as it is.

Totally agree that mixing it up is a good thing. Was just interested in people's thoughts cause I know there were a few people like myself that got something together but it wasn't quite right.

Quoted from Warren

I think Sean and I (well, at least me) would be interested in reading yours that you don't feel is 'quite right'. I have a higher tolerance for "close enough" when it comes to the challenge.

- Don

Lols, Gay Star Trek, where the hell was I!?

I thought the theme was good, and in regards to it being a challenge, I kinda thought that was the point!

Apologies to Blondie for not entering, I've just shipped off back down under and am without a computer to type away on. Shall review as per usual and look forward to reading. Well in those who entered

I just want to start with a big thank you for everyone who participated, didn't participate or considered participating. What would SimplyScripts' OWCs be without all of you to share it with? =)

Quoted from Don

Huge thanks to Mr. Blonde for coming up with this challenge.

Let's be honest, Don. Without you, there's no OWC, period, so a huge thanks goes out especially for you.

Quoted from Warren

Does that beg the question of whether the requirements should be "easier" for lack of a better word, for the OWC to be more inclusive?

In some ways, yes. In others, no. Me, personally, when I come up with an OWC theme, I try and come up with things that allow for originality and variation. I hate the idea of people thinking that they're forced into such a tight restriction that they're worried they might write a script similar to 10 other people. At the same time, Rick made a good point in the lead-up to the contest when he said a lot of the recent OWCs (I'm paraphrasing) are more about wacky ideas instead of character and he listed most of mine. He's right. I suck with creating characters and, as a result, character-based ideas. That's why we like to encourage other people to set up OWCs, to get some unique voices out there to challenge everyone else. Keep it fun and fresh and interesting.

Quoted from ajr

I think the time limit was constrictive on this one. But definitely one of the better constructed challenges I've seen.

It's true that I had originally considered a 3WC for this one instead of 2 weeks, but I had a feeling that people would be getting antsy with that long of a timeline, so I knocked it back and took a chance.

Quoted from Don

I think Sean and I (well, at least me) would be interested in reading yours that you don't feel is 'quite right'. I have a higher tolerance for "close enough" when it comes to the challenge.

Absolutely. I also don't really like the idea of DQ'ing people's scripts, anyway. I like to leave it up to the reviewers to make that call because everyone out there is an individual and has their own line on how far you can push the rules before it becomes unacceptable. At the same time, I do like for all comments to be constructive, but I don't think a script where someone at least attempted to fit it within the parameters should automatically be disqualified.

Quoted from Cameron

Apologies to Blondie for not entering, I've just shipped off back down under and am without a computer to type away on.

No need to apologize. It's a challenge, it's there for fun and for everyone to enjoy. It's not this obligation that, if you don't take part in it, you're hurting my feelings. Although, you are hurting my feelings by not participating... I'm kidding.

In all seriousness, though, don't sweat it if you miss out on this one. There are always going to be more OWCs. If not run by others, than by me. I've got six pages of OWC ideas saved up, just for the hell of it, so if you miss one, jump in the next. =)

Quoted from Don

I think Sean and I (well, at least me) would be interested in reading yours that you don't feel is 'quite right'. I have a higher tolerance for "close enough" when it comes to the challenge.

- Don

I'll be submitting it after the OWC in the exact format it is in now, so I'd be interested to know if people think it would have met the challenge.

sigh we need more entries with this theme. we barely scratched the surface.

I 100% agree and think that this is a great concept for a challenge, and yes it is challenging. My point was more that it was so challenging that it knocked a lot of other entries out of the equation.

I will read them all to see what people came up with.

Quoted from Mr. Blonde

I just want to start with a big thank you for everyone who participated, didn't participate or considered participating. What would SimplyScripts' OWCs be without all of you to share it with? =)

Let's be honest, Don. Without you, there's no OWC, period, so a huge thanks goes out especially for you.

In some ways, yes. In others, no. Me, personally, when I come up with an OWC theme, I try and come up with things that allow for originality and variation. I hate the idea of people thinking that they're forced into such a tight restriction that they're worried they might write a script similar to 10 other people. At the same time, Rick made a good point in the lead-up to the contest when he said a lot of the recent OWCs (I'm paraphrasing) are more about wacky ideas instead of character and he listed most of mine. He's right. I suck with creating characters and, as a result, character-based ideas. That's why we like to encourage other people to set up OWCs, to get some unique voices out there to challenge everyone else. Keep it fun and fresh and interesting.

It's true that I had originally considered a 3WC for this one instead of 2 weeks, but I had a feeling that people would be getting antsy with that long of a timeline, so I knocked it back and took a chance.

Absolutely. I also don't really like the idea of DQ'ing people's scripts, anyway. I like to leave it up to the reviewers to make that call because everyone out there is an individual and has their own line on how far you can push the rules before it becomes unacceptable. At the same time, I do like for all comments to be constructive, but I don't think a script where someone at least attempted to fit it within the parameters should automatically be disqualified.

No need to apologize. It's a challenge, it's there for fun and for everyone to enjoy. It's not this obligation that, if you don't take part in it, you're hurting my feelings. Although, you are hurting my feelings by not participating... I'm kidding.

In all seriousness, though, don't sweat it if you miss out on this one. There are always going to be more OWCs. If not run by others, than by me. I've got six pages of OWC ideas saved up, just for the hell of it, so if you miss one, jump in the next. =)

It wasn't me that criticised the themes, it was Prussian Moby. Your themes have all been good, as far as I'm concerned... Including this one. ;)

Thanks to everyone who gets these OWC going, and makes them as great as they are. They have helped me evolve so much quicker as writer than I ever could have by myself.

That being said, as a relative newcomer to this place, I have something I want to say about this whole challenge process.

I�ve noticed there is a trend to almost forget what these challenges are really about. These challenges aren�t a proving ground to show your worth as a writer, they are a safe place to push yourself in areas you aren�t normally comfortable exploring as a writer in a place that it can and will be critiqued by other writers.

So, the obsession with meeting the challenges parameters, or judging others stories on whether or not you understood the fine nuances of every line when you only do one read through should be left at the door. The anger and frustration of every negatively received comment shouldn�t bring you down. The idea is to produce a professional quality product in a week, not because the winner is a better writer and is more likely to be a successful writer, but because this is the best training a writer can get to assure that they perform even better THE NEXT TIME THEY WRITE!

For the readers, these short film screenplays are a lot like poetry, every line matters. Not just the words, but the tone and the context and the rhythm. Fifteen pages is an incredibly small amount of space to create a world within, so the truth is you are GUARANTEED to not understand the entirety of a script in the first read through. Don�t worry about it, just criticize what you do understand so you the person who wrote it can maybe learn something and be better.

For the writers, this is training, not the Super Bowl, or World Cup. Find a discipline that you feel needs work, and make your script about making that one or two parts of your writing better. If you can�t write dialogue, write a dialogue heavy script so you know people will pick apart your dialogue and give you more feedback on it.

Don�t get mad at me for making my little speech, I know most of this is common knowledge, but I feel a little reminder never hurts.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films

It wasn't me that criticised the themes, it was Prussian Moby. Your themes have all been good, as far as I'm concerned... Including this one. ;)

See? You try and give someone credit for making a good point and they refuse to accept it. Lol. I thought it had been you, Rick, but since it wasn't, Prussian, you made a really good point.

Quoted from Warren

I didn't enter because of time constraints (family visits, other projects, etc.).

I thought the premise was an interesting one, well stated and easy to understand.

I am not a fan of a minimum # of pages. Always prefer a "no more than" type parameter.

Mulling it over, I think some on the non-participation (and this is just a wild ass guess on my part) may be rooted in a sense that the type of stories would not naturally generate an otherwise commercially viable short.

For most of the OWCs, I think writers could easily visualize their script garnering interest outside the challenge (i.e., the scripts were typically low to modest budget, had tight locations - taxis, elevators, board games, etc). This theme almost by definition involved higher budget, multi-character. complex locations, etc.) that really leans more towards feature then it does short.

Again, I'm just spit balling as I would have certainly entered had I had the time and I really thought the theme provided for a great writing exercise.

Whatever the reason for the number of entries, it's nice to have the luxury of reading only
10 other scripts. It gives me a chance to read in more depth, and it's fairer to the writers.

Quoted from eldave1

Mulling it over, I think some on the non-participation (and this is just a wild ass guess on my part) may be rooted in a sense that the type of stories would not naturally generate an otherwise commercially viable short.

Yes, I wrote mine but then did not submit. One of the reasons is - I was not planning to rewrite and thought it would be wrong to have other writers read it and not pay attention to their critique.

But I used the challenge as a writing exercise anyway, so I'm happy there was one.

Mine would be another one about Japan, and there's already two of these in the challenge. 10 scripts and two on the same subject. Would have been three. Interesting.

Quoted from PrussianMosby

Okay, I buy it, although I'm not sure if I shouldn't just leave it as is,

but I try to explain...

It's not about persons, and it was important to me to thank everyone engaged in the closing statement there, which includes you.

IMO This challenge especially misses a connection with the audience. When you need to construct so much, where's meaning and expression toward recipient?

It's a thing that isn't secondary. People here, are sensible, they want progress, confront, cherish, and challenge their readers and viewers. Imo I don't see how the parameter about changing something from the past would be beneficial to an audience when it's anyway about the way, it is then -> then - There tell us your story it was here. To tell the story which bases on the fact that� how, why, it makes no sense other than distancing us from the audience.

I just "guess" that what I said, even happens through instincts, subconscious of the writers here. They feel it's against goal or comlicating goal of serving other people. They are not in math or physics, they are no engineers who ""construct"".

Alternate history stories are a well established genre.

Some of the world's greatest writers have dabbled in the field.

Any story you write, no matter when or where it is set reflects the current world... The world of the audience.

In order to connect with the audience, you take something important to you/society, then exaggerate it by constructing your world.

For instance, if you are upset that the Regressive Left are becoming too domineering through political correctness and shutting down free speech and opinion, you create a story where the USSR never split up and instead took over Europe.

The story then is set in that Europe and is about the suppression of free speech and makes an analogy to modern life. Ie this is the path we're going down if we're not careful.

When you complain about the themes, you often seem to have this curious view that the challenge provided somehow prevents you writing deeper themes, or characters. They are not mutually exclusive. Those parts of the equation are entirely up to you.

Even if someone gives out the most generic theme: Horror/Slasher for instance... It doesn't prevent you from building deep characters and introducing deep themes. You can even mechanically pick them. I'll do a Feminist horror slasher about domestic abuse, for instance.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films

I take it back. Let's leave it an echo chamber of a great theme choice. I thought it was an outcome where a critique is valid without an epic backtalk discussion. Got no power for that. I shouldn't have replied at first-

And I disagree with your exaggeration view btw: "you take something important to you/society, then exaggerate it by constructing your world"

Whatever, I still review but differently if I may,

Titles in order from top ("without looking into genre"):

@ 0-3 point

Not Even God Himself (strange, reminds me of Aguirre, aggressive, controversial, human) 3

Signal Fire (call for adventure? Hope you're in thriller genre) 3

Sapere Aude (I don't understand you, tell me) 2,5

Miss Yemmie (peculiar enough) 2,5

A New Plan For Fat Man (bring it across shorter) 2

Full circle (should be a drama or it's a pass) 2

--- the "not so exciting" ones with explanations

Fire and Water (not enough) 1,5

Olympic (sounds like a budget feature film, not a short) 1,5

The 13th Generation (in 2010th no numbers in title) 1

Operation Downfall (sorry, forgettable) 1

The Broken Kingdom (Too many projects, big stuff walks around those words) 1

PrussianMosby (Alex?): I like your title evaluations.

:'(

I'm convinced. In my rewrite I'll change the title to " The Wheat From the Chaff" as far as titles go.

Right, starting to review these bad boys (and girls) now. I've decided if I can't figure out what the timeline change is, or the effects this change has had on this world, I may mention this fact but I'm not going to score against it or let it influence me in any way. That being said, as long as it makes sense. If Hitler was never born and now we have an invasion of giant penguins as a result, well...that I may question!

Alex, that's a fun thing to do!

Titles, titles.

I liked the 13th Generation and the Broken Kingdom.
The rest - meh.

Haha, being mean feels so nice! Always.

(and Sapere Aude is super odd - talking about the title)

Just try to bear in mind these are working titles and vomit drafts. It's easier to destroy than it is to create ;-)

Thinking about it - Operation Downfall sounds good to me too.

And I noticed I picked those Alex didn't like as much. Interesting - proves once again you can't please them all. Although possibly there are some strong titles out there everyone bound to like.

I like a title tell me a little what the script is going to be about. For example, Operation Downfall is either a war script or somehow related to a war. I get that solely from the title.
Broken Kingdom I'm guessing is about politicians.
13 Generations - this one just sounds intriguing, maybe because it suggests some kind of mystery.

A New Plan For Fat Man suggests a slapstick comedy. So, I might check that one out.
Miss Yemmie - actually this one is not bad for me at all. It tells me it's going to follow a limited number of characters and I like that.
Full Circle - I read and can't comment since I already know what it's about.
Sapere Aude - I read. But the title doesn't tell me anything, I don't understand it and that's why it can't be my favorite.
Not Even God Himself - not sure about this one, because it can be about many different subjects. Therefore, not my favorite title.
Signal Fire - I don't understand the phrase.

Loglines: 0-3 points

Signal Fire: 0,5 (too few character and clear plot)

A New Plan For Fat Man: 1,5 (this concept feels uneven regarding the title, its listing as drama, and the logline; the logline itself isn't written bad btw).

Fire and Water: 2 (not so into the information but it reads sound (@ define genre clearly))

Sapere Aude: 2 (the whole concept is a bit of a wild card, I like it; logline might miss some definite plot connectors)

Miss Yemmie: 1,5 (the last part communicates a bit inconsistence although it's massively ironic of course, reads like a comedy btw)

Not Even God Himself: 1,5 (it's too empty, I think you should give away the definite threat and address the main characters some more)

Operation Downfall: 1,5 (high concept, could be interesting, but lacks real plot attractors like characters and definite storyline)

The Broken Kingdom: 2 (you can write that shorter, even get it in one sentence -- a quick take of mine-- "In an alternate timeline in which Guy Fawkes blew up parliament and overthrew the monarchy, on its annual celebration, half a millennium later, a French-American businessman finds himself on the run from terrorists after he inadvertently commits an act of heresy. -- It's still a 2 as is since it sounds fun @ the problem with the title I had is that it's too often used as a metaphorical term so that it could be everything and actually appears everywhere. This "realistic" context of terminology feels much more interesting; but make it touchable through the title that you mean the actual Kingdom of England).

The 13th Generation: 1 (I cannot interpret the substance clearly since the first and second part feel unconnected)

Full Circle: 0 (subsequent filing to be expected)

Olympic: 2 (simple but clear, some more story characteristics would multiply expression and expectations)

@ total score logline and title, 6 points max, top 3

Not Even God Himself 4,5
Sapere Aude 4,5
Miss Yemmie 4

Quoted from khamanna

Haha, Kham, I could comment on your comments further there, very intersting field to me, but I just enjoy reading your notes, and, who dares to judge the judge anyway
Very interesting what you say about Yemmie re limited numbers of characters, true it's what Miss clearly communicates: "I'm close to character", good thought

In general, it's an important area to exchange about-

re: Not Even God Himself (my fav with Signal)
I like it because it's very ambitious. When you go like that, you better deliver, and so I like the overall courage of giving the project that 'all in meaning' articulation.

Sure it's all subjective, that's why second, third etc opinion are great to receive.

@ Signal Fire (is SOS I believe)

also this would qualify in a sense imo

also it could be used as a metaphor of those, for sure

Quoted from khamanna

A New Plan For Fat Man suggests a slapstick comedy. So, I might check that one out.

I doubt it's a comedy.

Potential spoiler (though I haven't read the script yet)

"Thin Man" and "Fat Man" were the codenames for the first two atomic bomb designs. The "Thin Man" design was revised and renamed "Little Boy" before one of them was dropped on Hiroshima. Apparently in this world, no "Fat Man" was dropped on Nagasaki.

I think I've got two left to review but I'm going to have a rest and come back to these tomorrow so I can give them my full attention. Enjoying the creativity so far.

Lots of chatter from peeps here who haven't reviewed a single entry yet.

What' up with that shit?

Quoted from FrankM

Oh, ok thanks. I tried to read both Of the Hiroshima Nagassaki scripts but they seem to be loaded with war stuff which is not for me at all. I'll try them again, maybe I'm wrong.

I've read them all.  Having 3 war stories, that I read in a row, was unfortunate.

One of the biggest issues that I had was that in some cases, I had no clue what changed.  Or when it happened.

I hope the writers redo their stories and help us understand the stories better.

Having only 11 to read was pretty cool.

I know I wrote one.  Who else wrote a story?

What are some favs for you?

For me, the scope of the challenge and how easy it was to read, follow, and tell a story, here were my top 3:
Miss Yemme,
Olympic,
and The Broken Kingdom.

Dan

Quoted from DanC

Dan, you may have missed some of the earlier discussions (before the scripts were posted). We recognized that it may not be possible to get across what major event hasn't happened and all the timeline changes in these short scripts. Well, not without a lot of bad exposition anyway. We kind of agreed not to score negatively on the script if this was the case and just focus on the story rather than the backstory.

War stories were always going to be an obvious choice for this challenge and I'm not surprised this is the case.

I've reviewed them all now, enjoyed what I read. My top two are Olympic and Signal Fire. I do wish more would have entered. This was a challenge which allowed writers to really let loose the creativity and explore world building, something writers need to have exposure to these days with the new golden age of TV upon us.

-Mark

Quoted from khamanna

Oh, ok thanks. I tried to read both Of the Hiroshima Nagassaki scripts but they seem to be loaded with war stuff which is not for me at all. I'll try them again, maybe I'm wrong.

Having now read it, I'm not entirely sure if the George S. Patton character wasn't intended as comic relief. The real person was so over-the-top he's hard to parody.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Lots of chatter from peeps here who haven't reviewed a single entry yet.

What' up with that shit?

I, for one, am pressed for time these weeks, and so far by the time I have anything to say someone else has already said it. It is educational for me, though, seeing both the shorts themselves (what an embrionic idea looks like rather than a polished finished script) and the reviews (what gets pointed out, what people let slide).

Quoted from FrankM

You're fine, bro. Comment not aimed at you.

Jeff, haven't you noticed, at least to a degree, that I review 90% (possibly more) of the scripts from OWCs since I'm here, including those challenges I did not even enter "and" do not like, as concepted?

You'll see my name in the reviewing list for sure, no matter what� I was never an early reviewer btw.

But anyway kind regards, man.

Quoted from PrussianMosby

I know. It's just that these things need fuel to keep going and when reviews are low early on, things begin to fizzle and interest dies.

We good, bro!

I've read 7 and planning to stop as the other four are on the subjects matter that is not my cup of tea at all. I left out two war scripts, a political historical fiction and the John Lennon script. I don't think my opinion will help these scripts in any way as I'm not prepared to go in with an open mind. And also I'm far from being an expert in the field of war, history or politics.

I saw many interesting concepts and fun to read scripts. Miss Yemmie gets my vote though.
But I can't vote or dish out grades as I don't have mine in the pile.

I liked quite a few actually. Not Even God Himself, Olympic, Signal Fire all nice entries. And I also liked Sapere Aude - think it's being overlooked, and the idea of it is bold and fun.

Quoted from Dreamscale

We good, bro!

Good to hear. I just reviewed one that I enjoyed, good quality for my taste. And will definitely give the other two I put on a "throne" in my superficial concept evaluation a shot, then see if I go through all of them or not.

I'm pretty happy so far.  This is the best reviewed story I've written since joining.

Do have to make one complaint.  Jeff, no one doubts your prowesses with the technical side of writing.  But, bow does it help anyone to read your slugs are bad, this is wrong etc.

Wouldn't it be much more beneficial to show each person how it should loom??  I understand that if there are 25 entries and you have to get through them ASAP, but with only 11 stories, couldn't you take the time to show each script how to do it the correct way?

After all, it is show, don't tell, right??  And what's the other good saying?  Oh right.  You get further with an ounce of honey than with a ton of shit

Dan

Quoted from DanC

Do have to make one complaint. Jeff, no one doubts your prowesses with the technical side of writing. But, bow does it help anyone to read your slugs are bad, this is wrong etc.

Wouldn't it be much more beneficial to show each person how it should loom?? I understand that if there are 25 entries and you have to get through them ASAP, but with only 11 stories, couldn't you take the time to show each script how to do it the correct way?Dan

Am I being paid for my services and somehow unaware of that? No, I'm not being paid, and I didn't enter this 2WC. When I do enter, the feedback I receive is just about as weak as possible, yet I always try to throw out pointers and help in every review I post.

If you would like additional "help" on your entry, Dan, let me know with a PM and I'll see what I can do for you, but I don't appreciate being called out for not providing helpful feedback.

My entry has received reviews from all across the spectrum. Some praise and some absolutely beatings.

And I appreciate each and every one - thanks to all that have read/reviewed and your brutal honesty.:)

Quoted from Dreamscale

Lots of chatter from peeps here who haven't reviewed a single entry yet.

What' up with that shit?

I didn't enter, but offered to read a few. All writers would have to do was pm me. No one did...

Quoted from Grandma Bear

I didn't enter, but offered to read a few. All writers would have to do was pm me. No one did...

I offered the same thing and no PMs.

I just wanted to say one more thing.  And this is not directed at Jeff or anyone specific.

If you spot a mistake, instead of saying how bad it is, why not show them how to do it correctly.  I know that some, like Jeff, Pia, Warren etc have said that we can email them, but, if you read it, and it's wrong, show us then and there for one big reason.

So that anyone else reading it that might not know can learn.  That's the reason why I haven't pm'd anyone yet is because I'd love if I read a script and then look at the comments and I learn something.  I mean, isn't that what we do?  teach others?

Just my 2 cents.  Again, I didn't mean to upset you Jeff.  I saw a script you ripped apart (wasn't mine) and just wondered how they should have done it, the right way.

Dan

Depends on how you define 'mistake', Dan. And to what extent.
I read plenty of comments in OWCs where 'mistakes' are pointed out, and they actually aren't mistakes at all.

I wish people would focus their feedback with OWCs on: meeting the challenge, how good a story it is, and how well it would transition to film.

Reading about lack of punctuation, spelling mistakes, no Fade In or no logline, over and over, is very boring, taking into account a lot of these mistakes will be made due to the deadline. Some, not all admittedly, but then the real learning takes place posting scripts on the discussion board and getting feedback there. And, learning in general from books, reading scripts, other Internet resources, honing your grammar etc.

With OWCs, if the entry is really not in good shape, then a general: 'need to learn industry standard formatting', which can be found here: http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/ is enough. Or let the person know you're happy to help after the challenge. Jmho.

I'm pleased with the reviews so far, even those who don't quite get this new world I've created have enjoyed the ride.

Jeff's been making me smile in this OWC. On several scripts he's been his usual blustery self about slugs and orphans and how bad it is etc. then his last sentence has been along the lines of "Actually that was quite good, I enjoyed it!' lol.

I can only speak for myself, I'm not going to PM and beg for reviews, that's not me, but anyone who wants to read and offer comments on these scripts are more than welcome, even if you didn't manage to get a script in this time. With only 11 entries, the review count is low and I'm sure all writers would appreciate as much feedback as possible.

Quoted from LC

I agree. These are vomit drafts and will have formatting issues, typos etc. As long as it doesn't look like someone's bashed their head with the keyboard, then I think points shouldn't be deducted for this. I do appreciated when someone has pointed out a typo though as I then don't miss it on the next draft.

Industry Standard is there to help make scripts as readable as possible. It's a guideline that is designed to help accomplish this, but some take it as bible that must be followed to the letter.

If someone says a line you have written is unfilmable. Well, successfull famous script have been produced that's full of unfilmables. Unfilmable descriptions are quite often used to give the actor a sense of what the character is like as a person.

I sometimes point out that the script is a bit over descriptive and prosey, but I usually add 'for my own tastes' because again, there's professional scripts out there which are just like that.

When I'm scoring a OWC it's less about the rules and all about the stories and characters. Are the believable, entertaining? Are they too predictable? If I was watching this, would I be enthralled or squirming in my seat waiting for something interesting to happen? Does something come in out of left field? is there too much exposition in there which could be handled better with a show instead of a tell? That sort of thing.

Formatting can be fixed by referring to an online guide. What writers really need help with is making their stories work and their characters seem real.

-Mark

Sorry for the triple posting (BAD MARK!) but I just noticed that in the original post it said names and results revealed 5PM EST 2nd of February. That's tomorrow! :-O But when Don posted the scripts, he sent an email that says Feb 5th so I'm confused....when is the reveal?

I kind of agree with you, Mark but typos and poor grammar need to fixed IMO. After the script is done, perps need to really read back through it and fix any errors. The way I write usually catches any such errors (mostly lol) and I also never need to do second or third drafts: I write by hand first in a notebook. Then I�ll get on the computer and start copying to the software. Because this is days after I�ve initially written, I can sometimes come up with better stuff as I go, so no need for other drafts; I am very strong on keeping work spontaneous especially comedy as tinkering too much can ruin the flow. Anyway I finish up then re-read it back a couple of times, both on the software and finished PDF as they can often �look� different. If I�m stuck on a part of a story I will skip ahead and do stuff I already have in my head.

This owc I started it then did the ending as that came to me pretty much immediately I brainstormed. That can be handy as it�s easier to have that goal in sight. Anyway, my two bob�s worth lol

Random observation:

I've seen many comments that use the word WOW.

Does this mean this is an above-average crop of scripts? I think so.

Quoted from DanC

You aren't being called out pe say.  But, does it hurt to say instead of your slugs are terrible to show an example and how to fix it?

You see things that people like me never notice.  You have a gift to notice that stuff.  If you don't want to,or don't have by time, perhaps you could write a post about slugs.

I guess that I look at these assignments as a learning exercise and when I see on another's story that this and that is wrong, IMO it helps more to see bow it can be corrected.

Maybe you should hold screenwriting classes or posts to show people who either give too little or too much how it should be.

But, Dan, you did call me out by name and you've done it here again, as well.

The majority of reviewers give far less detail than I do.  I do not have the time or the interest in being more detailed, because, in reality, the vast majority of scripts, especially rushed OWC's have many, MANY mistakes throughout..

As Libby correctly said, there are reviewers who give out completely incorrect criticism and advice, and there's 1 that I won't name, who posts long reviews with multiple quotes, that I just have to laugh out loud when reading, pretty much every time.

The moral of the story is you take what you can get and you use what you choose to.

For better or worse, we live in a post #metoo world, and I expect that at some point we will have to show much more positivity than in the past.

I was merely making a suggestion, not calling you out.

Quoted from DanC

No, it isn't what we do. And as an aside, when you included Jeff's name, you were by definition calling him out. That's okay - but own it at least. I have had issues with Jeff's reviews and when I do I call him out on it. Vice versa as well. But they never have been focused on a failure to provide a specific solution.

We are all here for a variety of reasons. Teaching specific solutions does not have to be one of them. This isn't a screenwriting class. It's a forum. If someone reviews a script and tells the writer it's full of format errors and typos that is valuable information in and of itself. Sure, if they pointed out each individual correction needed that is helpful - but it is not at all required or an obligation.

There are four basic levels of participation on this site:

1. Zero - they post scripts, provide zero comments and do not respond to comments on their scripts.

2. They post scripts and are only focused on comments regarding their own scripts and never/rarely contribute to others.

3. They post scripts and comment on other as well as seeking comments on their own.

4. They don't post scripts - but provide comments anyway,

I would worry more about groups 1 and 2 then I would 3 and 4.

The other thing is that the writer themselves can seek feedback and information. There are tons of resources on-line that are available AND - if they were concerned they could post on their own thread - after the challenge - asking what specific thing would you recommend.

Anyway - my take

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

I can only speak for myself, I'm not going to PM and beg for reviews, that's not me

I definitely wouldn�t see it as begging. I�ve been ask by three people to provide reviews and I did, simple as that. Only reason I asked for a PM is because most people know how I review at this point, so if you think there is any value in what I have to say, ask. For those that would rather not get my type of review, this time round they don�t have to.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

I agree. These are vomit drafts

Surely this isn�t what most people think, vomit drafts? I�ve never entered an OWC with something that hasn�t been given the attention it deserves. I don�t think time constants can be blamed for bad spelling, grammar, and punctuation. It takes a couple of minutes to do a spell check and run it through Grammarly. Also if you have a 15 page script it shouldn�t take you more than fifteen minutes to give it a once over to check for mistakes. Can�t tell me you are so pressed for time that you can�t do that in a two week period.

Quoted from LC

I wish people would focus their feedback with OWCs on: meeting the challenge, how good a story it is, and how well it would transition to film.

Why can�t people just review any way they want, providing ideas or remarks on areas of screenwriting they feel comfortable with? I like format and style so I comment heavily on that, but then I give my two cents on what I thought about the story. I stuggle enough coming up with my own ideas so, for me, trying to help someone change or better storyline is tricky.

Others will only comment on story, others only on format and obvious errors. Put it all together and you can end up with a very well rounded review with a lot of different perspectives on a lot of different areas of screenwriting.

Quoted from Warren

...it shouldn�t take you more than fifteen munities to give it a once over to check for mistakes.

Or maybe 16 munities.

Quoted from Stumpzian

Or maybe 16 munities.

Yeah, because that�s the important part of what I said. You�re always so helpful.

This isn�t a script, just ramblings.

Quoted from Warren

You�re always so helpfully.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

I can only speak for myself, I'm not going to PM and beg for reviews, that's not me,

I didn't enter and I'm pretty busy these days. I figured I can read a couple or so, that's why I said if you want me to read, just send me a pm. Never did I suggest that in order to get read, you need beg! :-/

You seriously need to get a life Stump.

Again, I can only speak for myself but I work full time and have family commitments. Writing is a hobby that I indulge in when I have the spare time. Usually this means I get maybe 2 to 3 hours of script writing a week...sometimes it means no writing at all.

For me to do a script in a week usually means a draft in 3 hours. I spend all week planning, researching, getting as prepared as I can. I always, always check it over and give it a final polish before submitting but it will have grammatical errors and typos that spell check misses. It won't be as lean as it could, it may have more orphans than people like and it may not flow as smoothly as it should. It is a vomit draft.

Now I do really appreciate anyone who takes the time to point out such things as it saves me time hunting them down. But I can fix those with a more focused polish. What I'm really after is issues with the story and characters. Those won't become obvious just be me staring at the page.

What happens after every OWC is I take all the comments and use them to do a solid first draft. And for that, this event is priceless! Asking for review is just not my style, it does feel to me like I'm begging. But I do appreciate every review whatever your reviewing style is.

This owc was different as I had 2 weeks but I spent over a week coming up with the idea, the back story and world building.

I had to pass on this one, been too busy and then too busy recovering from being too busy.

All finished. I only hated three of them. Pretty solid roster this time around.

I didn't enter this one ... but I hate to admit but I've never spent more then a few hours on writing a script for the owc. I spend most of the week rambling ideas through my head... and if one hits me even last minute I write it. So all of mine are vomit drafts... Sometimes I do not even have time to read them over before sending them in ... and while I do not win very often, I have gotten a few mugs over the years so I'm very happy about that. I'm very lucky maybe. I don't like to comb over scripts.. even my features and I've optioned vomit drafts. So well.. everyone is different. I have a full time job, a husband and two dogs and a life. I write because I love it .. and I really believe that spending the time thinking of a great concept is more important that a few spelling mistakes. It's story for me.

Because filmmakers look for a good story and don't worry about the other stuff. The technical details are easily fixed. :)

So you love to write vomit drafts... makes sense.

Seems more logical that if you love the craft of writing you'd have some interest in the actual craft of writing.

Why are people making out that taking a few minutes to check spelling and grammar is such a big deal?

It may very well be the case that good stories get picked up regardless of how shit the writing is, but who doesn't like reading a well written script?

My spelling errors and typos are underlined for me as I write, so I often can simply right-click the word and select an alternate spelling. Sometimes, I'm so lazy that I only write an approximation of the word I want and then right click to change it.

I will not read a badly written script. I don't mind story issues as I find those all the time with produced stuff too... but spelling and grammar must be on point to a certain degree - allowing leeway for 'voice'.

There were no badly written scripts this time around. Maybe it's because the challenge was not heavily advertised and there were no newcomers to screenwriting.

Spellcheck is easy, it's the other stuff like word choice and word placement for me. I have to search obvious things during writing. For example I don't know which way is correct "he sets aside his plate when done" or "he sets his plate aside when done" --the search didn't return much on this one. I don't mind when you point it out though. Usually in the OWC people don't tell me the exact mistakes, they just say "weird word choice"
That's a bummer, but what can you do, it's OWC, people read and comment fast. It's an additional push either way. But I'd appreciate examples, I won't lie here. Cuz the weird word choice isn't that weird to me, so at first I go "man, not again" then "I've got to fix it" and then "but I don't know what I need to fix" - so in the end I leave yhe script alone. It's gotten better though over time. Last time people mostly asked if I was British.

My English used to be horrendous, not to mention my grammar. By reading a lot and having auto correct on pretty much every device these days and easily accessible thesauruses online, I'm pretty decent these days. Whenever I send out a script for coverage or to a publisher or such, I almost always get told it was well written and a fast read. So, I've come a long way, but it takes time.

Whenever I read someone's script, especially features, I almost always point out spelling errors, unless there are too many, then I just mention that their are a LOT of typos throughout. While reading, they never bother me though. Except for one time I read a feature where the writer wrote HANGER instead of HANGAR every other slug. It drove me crazy! Lol!

Quoted from Warren

So you love to write vomit drafts... makes sense.

Seems more logical that if you love the craft of writing you'd have some interest in the actual craft of writing.

I am an artist not a craftsman. It's like asking a painter to paint something then meddle over it and then paint over it ...what WAS art becomes a CRAFT. Anyone can learn a craft or paint by numbers. IT's just the way I do mine sorry ... I've been lucky to get a lot produced over the years so I think we all work different. I know a guy who spends YEARS 'polishing' and going over each script. I just don't work that way. To each his own IMO. No judgement here... you either love someone's story or you don't. :)

When are the writers and writer�s choice revealed? Says the 2nd of February.

Doesn�t affect me, just out of interest.

Quoted from Warren

When are the writers and writer�s choice revealed? Says the 2nd of February.

Doesn�t affect me, just out of interest.

It's still February 2. Just ask Bill Murray...

Quoted from FrankM

It's still February 2. Just ask Bill Murray...

Touche.

All voted and accounted for.

Excellent: 4
Very good: 3
Good: 0
Fair: 1
Poor: 2

Pretty good selection of scripts this go-round. Best of luck to everybody. :)

There were three that I liked, two I didn't read (Watergate and Presidents)... the rest were not my cup of char.

Hi all.

I�m very late to the party. (And very spaced as it happens due to total jet-lag discombobulation since you ask. What time is it? Which side of the planet is up?)

This is my first time reading and reviewing for an OWC... and I was gutted to be away with practically zero internet access and reading time from just before the submission date through to this moment right now. I�m trying to catch up. Reviewed a bunch on the plane home, and will read and review more now...

... If I�m not too late?

What happens next? Stuff gets scored?

Hey, Always.

If you're in you should have received the scorecard from Don asking to grade the entries - usually by email. But it's only if you submitted your own entry to this. But maybe Don hasn't sent one yet. I don't know, I'm not in.

I got the score card from Don last night and I've voted. Two excellent votes, the rest mixed :-)

Hmmmm, no content here, so I talk

I read 7 entries, all handled qualified, very qualified in my opinion. Not even sure about my favorite yet, probably I read more, though Mark's vision :-) of the new "Titanic", has probably been the most touching message to me. Very good.

Then the French American going to England was completely crazy and skillfull presented. What a great plot.

I liked the other stories too.

I think I read five of them. All were good, but I'm just not really into war stuff or religious stuff, so even though the stories were good and I appreciate the writers' efforts, they didn't really excite me either.

I toyed with the idea of writing one, but was simply too busy. My idea would've been if AC or refrigeration had not been invented. That would've had a huge impact on things. Especially in places like Florida. How many people would've moved here with no AC, lol. :)

I read all (well, scanned through some) and reviewed six that appealed..

The Broken Kingdom was my fav of those read. It was clever and funny.

That said I can't vote as I didn't step up to this particular challenge. This was just too big of an idea for me for a short, and history ain't my fav.

Did anyone write about if the printing press had never been invented? :)
Just musing...
All credit to those who gave this one a go.

Quoted from LC

Did anyone write about if the printing press had never been invented? :)

That screenplay is on a scroll still snail-mailing its way to Don.

My idea was Islam ruling the world. I was really looking forward to all the accusations of racism, but, alas, things conspired against me and I couldn't finish.

While we are waiting for the names to be revealed, I just wanted to see if I'm the only one who has this experience when reviewing the entries.

I always read the script before reading the reviews. Usually, in every OWC there's one script which is written fine, no problem there, but I just don't think works as a story, or will make a good short movie at all for various reasons. Yet then I look at the reviews and loads love it!

I know everyone has their own tastes etc. but there's always one script which I can't figure out the appeal at all. I even go back and re-read it to see if I was just not with it the first time and I still don't see what it is people like about it.

I should say that there's also usually the opposite. A script I LOVE which everyone else hates.

I'm not going to name scripts as I think that's unfair, but does anyone else have this issue?

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

I should say that there's also usually the opposite. A script I LOVE which everyone else hates.

Yeah, Mark...I always LOVE my script, but everyone else HATES it! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quoted from Warren

When are the writers and writer�s choice revealed? Says the 2nd of February.

Doesn�t affect me, just out of interest.

I just sent the votes to Sean to tally. I delayed a bit as one of the writers was out of the country and I wanted to make sure there was ample time to respond.

Apologies for the delay.

- Don

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

I know everyone has their own tastes etc. but there's always one script which I can't figure out the appeal at all. I even go back and re-read it to see if I was just not with it the first time and I still don't see what it is people like about it.

I should say that there's also usually the opposite. A script I LOVE which everyone else hates.

I'm not going to name scripts as I think that's unfair, but does anyone else have this issue?

There's one script in this challenge that got surprising number of likers. Actually all the rest loved it except for me. I'm kind of ashamed of myself a bit, thinking maybe I misread or didn't read it with an open mind. I'll give it another go.
But to your question - yes, that happens to me too, most people loves it but me and I feel like an outcast in cases like these.

Glad I'm not the only one!

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

None of those work as shorts for me.

For the rest of your comment, don't forget, you need a good title that enagages you your 10% of potential viewers.

More than that, 10% is a blast, it means millions or in short script language it means 80.000-150.000 viewers something are interested in that material---

What I mean, don't go into thinking objective, you can like what you like, it doesn't matter. If a script hits the wide target... or better said, having "a" target audience at all is what brings you fucking 3 %, which is Monster when regarding 10 billion people or 3% of short film interested people etc...

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