Fixed, my friend.

Anyway, I think this thread's run its course. I think everyone who's interested has taken the test and we've got a good sense of what the board looks like politically. In any case, politics are like a "Boston Chilli Dog." Shitty. While I don't doubt you guys can have a political and still be civil to each other, I don't think the thread needs to go in that direction.

You don't think it needs to go in that direction? Dude, it's gone.

Anyway, I'm over it, I’d rather focus on screenwriting when I come to this site, but every now and then I get sucked into debates.

Quoted from Takeshi You’re saying that I think people can’t make choices for themselves. That’s not my position and you’re saying that it is my position and then attacking it; that’s a straw man.

I know what a straw man is, Chris. I was talking about this:

"A lot of people are influenced into the “choices” they make after being misled about what their choices actually are. But there are independent thinkers who are capable of making up their own minds no matter how much propaganda gets slung at them; unfortunately they’re in the minority."

Quoted Text Noam Chomsky once said, ‘Democracy is a great idea, somebody should try it sometime’. I agree with him.

So you're saying that democracy still hasn't been tried? Could you elaborate on that?  

Quoted Text They are in Australia and the UK.

Well, that's two countries. Two isn't exactly "many".

Quoted Text Yes. The corporates keep backing the parties that are going to protect their interests and those parties keep winning. But when did I claim that people were tricked into voting for right-wing parties?

You wrote that corporations cause (through excessive funding) people think they only have the choice between two right wings parties and that that illusion makes them vote for only these two, or none at all.

Trick: to deceive someone, often as a part of a plan:

I think it's pretty apt.

Quoted Text Right and left wing are not relative terms, just because you’re slightly left of George Bush, doesn’t mean that you’re left wing. I’d also dispute that the democrats in the US aren’t right-wing. The way they manage the economy when they’re in power seems very right-wing to me.

That's a sweeping statement. Right wing and left absolutely are relative terms. The center is defined by the extremes. For instance in Denmark we have two socialist parties who would be between -6 to -8 on the economic axis. Our conservative party is about +2-3. Thus our moderates would be in -2, and the conservative party left of all but two American democratic presidential candidates.

Now imagine if the communist party had a relative foothold in American politics. Then that would shift the political paradigme completely, and the left wing would need to be redefined.

So why do you think right and left aren't relative terms?
  

Quoted Text Well that’s what I was advocating. I’ve already said I’m not advocating a return to communism or socialism, just a much more restricted form of capitalism.

Okay. I disagree but this is a moot point.

Quoted Text The job of any government is to set boundaries, they’re called laws. A government that truly had the best interests of the majority would legislate for a much more even distribution of wealth.  Governments impose a whole range of restrictions on various things, why should income be any different? Oh that’s right the rich don’t want them to.

I would like to remind you, I'm an English major (raised in a single-parent socialist home). The best I can hope for when I'm done is a high school teaching job. I'm not gonna get rich, so if you would please refrain from treating like I'm in it for the money.

I believe what I believe because I genuinely believe you should be skeptical of all authority, especially the state. The argument that the state should control how much you can make, because it's job is to control other aspects of life is strange to me. That kinda logic could precipitate laws on how much you can eat in a day, because it's the govermemt's job to impose laws and regulations.

Obviously my qualm is that "need" is indefinable. We are not the same and we need different things. And this is one of those areas where the government shouldn't intrude.

Quoted Text How can you call for an expansion of capitalism when the current levels of capitalism are already environmentally unsustainable?

Are you actually against removing tarrifs and dismantling protectionism? This is what the African nations have pled us to do for decades, but we're looking to protect ourselves, we don't want them to compete with the rest of us. This could mean that they could get an economy going, they could sustain themselves.

How is removing tarrifs and protectionism enviromentally unsustainable?

Quoted Text There was nothing snide or unwarranted about it. You’re defending practices that have resulted in 2% of the world’s population controlling 85% of the world’s wealth, whilst millions of people are suffering from the ravages of poverty. I was just pointing that out.

Chris, I hope you would agree I've remained civil in this debate. However, when you write "but you just go ahead and keep defending that TJ." you are making it personal. You are derailing this debate (And I do think it's interesting!) and making it about me.

It is unwarranted in a civil dicussion, no matter how wrong you think I am.

Quoted from James McClung You mean "it doesn't end when people get mad" or better yet "it doesn't end." I'm usually a sucker for debates but trying to convince someone with completely opposite political or religious points of view to change their beliefs or even reconsider them or even consider reconsidering them is a waste of time. Even trying to make someone see things your way is difficult when they're already set with theirs. That's not to say I'm not against debating politics or religion. On the contrary, I have a good time doing. Not on the Internet though. Political debates get pretty intense and I'd rather have one with someone in person rather than post a comment and wait 5-10 minutes to maybe several hours for someone else to post a retort.

Yeah. I truly love discussing politics, even when I disagree with those I'm debating. To me it's not so much about convincing the other guy, I mean that would be neat-o, but it's more about making sound arguments. Whether or not the other guy converts is outta my hands.

Debating makes you a better debater yourself, because people will point out flaws in your rhetoric and you're gonna have reflect on that. It helps you understand where you really stand and what you believe in.

Unfortunately, you're right, they often end with less that pleasant results. However, I found the key is to not take politics personally. Even if it can be hard.

As I said.

Quoted from Takeshi Hey TJ, I think these last few posts may be our fellow member’s way of saying that they've had enough of our little chat. Anyway, I think I've made my position and my reasons for my position clear, so I don't think I have anymore to say on the issues we've been discussing. I best get back to things related to screenwriting. Peace.

Quoted from Takeshi As I said.

I saw you, Chris.

But I needed to respond to the charges you made. If you didn't want to reply, that's fine, you don't have to. But I don't see the point of this post...

You could just PM me, you know.

And then if I'd responded to the charges you made(and believe me I could) you'd have to respond to those charges and then I'd respond and on it goes. I'm happy to let you have the last word, because at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.  

Quoted from Takeshi I'm happy to let you have the last word.

Thanks, Chris.

No worries.

Hey,

Looks like I'm late foe the debate(rhyme +2 points!) . Oh well.

I hope people aren't put off because things are getting a little heated. I think most of us are grown up enough to discuss ideas we may not agree with and come out of it with our feelings intact.

I agree with Death Monkey that a good debate is a really useful thing. It can help expand your horizons, prompt a reexamination of your own beliefs. Without challenges from other points of view we become intellectually lazy.

Anyway, I'd also like to say that I completely agree with Death Monkey. For a European you trumpet American philosophies pretty well. If you ever feel like pulling yourself up by your boot straps or grow tired of the oppression and tyranny of Denmark, I would, and I'm sure most Americans would also, gladly welcome you to the land of opportunity(as long as its legal... ok, I like you enough to look the other way if you come with a visa and let it expire). Well done sir.

sheepwalker

P.S.

If you're looking for a good debate we can finish ours on KOTOR, or next week I'll probably be picking up Mass Effect. But in either case, it will have to wait until next week after finals.    

Quoted from Soap Hands Hey, Looks like I'm late foe the debate(rhyme +2 points!) . Oh well. I hope people aren't put off because things are getting a little heated. I think most of us are grown up enough to discuss ideas we may not agree with and come out of it with our feelings intact. I agree with Death Monkey that a good debate is a really useful thing. It can help expand your horizons, prompt a reexamination of your own beliefs. Without challenges from other points of view we become intellectually lazy. Anyway, I'd also like to say that I completely agree with Death Monkey. For a European you trumpet American philosophies pretty well. If you ever feel like pulling yourself up by your boot straps or grow tired of the oppression and tyranny of Denmark, I would, and I'm sure most Americans would also, gladly welcome you to the land of opportunity(as long as its legal... ok, I like you enough to look the other way if you come with a visa and let it expire). Well done sir. sheepwalker P.S. If you're looking for a good debate we can finish ours on KOTOR, or next week I'll probably be picking up Mass Effect. But in either case, it will have to wait until next week after finals.

Haha nonsense, sir! I trumpet the philosophies of fellow European thinkers like Adam Smith, John Locke, Baron de Montisqeu, Immanuel Kant or David Hume

I might be able to sneak Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin in the backdoor when the French philosophers aren't looking, though.

And I so wish Mass Effect was coming to PC, 'cause I can't play any type of shooter with a controller; I need a mouse. But it does look amazing.