Okay. I noticed this a few months ago but shrugged it off as a phase. Now it seems to be the norm around these parts. Almost all of the features submitted to this site come from non-members or newbies who pop into say hello once or twice. There've been a few exceptions (I've noticed features from Zack and Scoob in the horror section) but they seem to be happening less and less.

My question is what's the deal? Why aren't regulars writing features anymore? I know it sure as hell isn't easy to churn out 90-100 pages but I know a lot of you guys have done it before. What's the meaning behind this dry spell? I think someone mentioned earlier that it could attributed to the merit of writing shorts but I just don't buy it. Far too many regulars have written features for this to be true.

This isn't a rant, per se. I guess I'm just expressing a little disappointment. There've been some great shorts posted but I've written a lot of reviews along the lines of "good but needs to be expanded." It'd be nice to read something with some bulk for a change from writers I enjoy. Mostly though, I'm just curious.

So what's the deal?

Actually, I don't think I've ever written a full feature. I've tried, but it is much harder than one would think. However I have noticed this trend as well. My guess is that shorts are popular simply because they are easier to write and quicker to read. It just seems like people are losing their patience(I never had much to begin with). One day I will write a full feature. I WILL.

~Zack~

I think a lot of people are refraining from features due to the simple fact that there's a fear they won't get read.  Nobody really seems to be interested in them, at least at the moment.

My own personal excuse is lack of time.  I have two features currently on hold at the end of the first act (one comedy, one romantic comedy) because I had to go back into rewrites on some other stuff while being knee deep in the development process.  I haven't even been able to churn out a short lately.  The last one was an off the cuff 5 pager, but that will be remedied soon as I'll be starting work on a series short in just a few minutes.  I'd factor the new baby into the equation as well, but he in no way interferes with my writing time.

I hope to get back to work on the comedy script soon, and hopefully be able to post it within the next couple months, mainly because I'm curious as to the feedback it will receive.  It's quite ridiculous.

Actually I've posted almost nothing but features, only one short. Most of those are all features I'd written before I joined the board.

Yes,  I'd also noticed that shorts are more popular here. I guess it's the opposite for me, I enjoy doing a 90-100 page feature and find it hard to do a 15 page short subject.

I recently completed a 30 page short with Zack that should be posted shortly and also am working on a new feature script. As Shelton said above, features don't get as much attention,  but the tide will probably turn soon.

And feel free to read any of my scripts. They're the ones with the fewest views

Are you guys saying my one and two page scripts means I'm going in the wrong direction??????  

Quoted from Shelton Nobody really seems to be interested in them, at least at the moment.

That's because they're all written by nonmembers.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Are you guys saying my one and two page scripts means I'm going in the wrong direction??????

False. In fact, I might write one myself, one of these days. But if you'd try your hand at writing a feature, that'd be great.

Pia, you are the queen of short scripts. And that is why we all love you.

As Mike said, we just completed a 30 page short. I'm trying my best to stick to the "long shorts" and not pump out a ton of "5 pagers" like I used to do.

~Zack~

Ayham has a new feature up in Drama.  He's a regular around here.

I'm currently writing a script that might end up being a feature. I still don't know as I'm writing it. I'm pretty much letting the story flow and take me wherever it wants me to go.

Features take a lot out of a person. But summer is coming so hopefully things will change.  

Gabe

This seems a comment-worthy topic, James. I watch these boards quite a bit, and I agree with your assessment.

I think part of the problem is shorter and shorter short scripts.  I would bet every new (significant) posting from Don brings in five new scripts shorter than five pages.  And it seems nearly everyone is on the bandwagon.

People gravitate towards those micro-scripts, even when the author is someone they have never heard of, so that is what people are writing.  And yes, they are easier to write.  Talking about how hard it is to write a one-pager is just hooey.  Most people here could dash off five decent pages in a good afternoon.

It takes some serious cache around here, some begging, some pimping, lots of reads by the author, and a darn good premise to get many comments on a feature.  That is a witch's brew that few authors have been able to stomach lately.

Some people on the Horror board have been doing it lately, but most of the other genres have been pretty quiet.  But then, most of the scripts on those boards have been from mystery authors who may not deserve the investment of one's time.

I am looking forward to having more time for both reading and writing.  Still waiting for that to happen, but it will.  Stuff goes in cycles, and these boards do, too.  Soon the age of the feature will be back upon us if we are only patient.

Quoted from bert It takes some serious cache around here, some begging, some pimping, lots of reads by the author, and a darn good premise to get many comments on a feature.  That is a witch's brew that few authors have been able to stomach lately.

This is another excuse I think applies to some but not all. I say without the intent to flatter and as a full blown fact that if you or Mike were to post a new feature length, most of us regulars would be on it in a heartbeat. New writers often have to work for their reads, this is true, but there's a fairly large amount of regulars who have made a name for themselves on the boards with their features and wouldn't have to work as hard to get theirs read.

Quoted from bert I think part of the problem is shorter and shorter short scripts.  I would bet every new (significant) posting from Don brings in five new scripts shorter than five pages.  And it seems nearly everyone is on the bandwagon.

I agree. While some of them are actually pretty good, a lot of them feel like the writer's just churning out something short because they can. Even the good one's are sort of unsatisfying, if only for the reason that they're over too quick. I do think these microscripts have some merit though. It's something of a challenge to write a complete story in one page and doing so is a good way to exercise one's skills. Still, they don't always get em right.

I do hope this is just a phase as you've suggested. I'd very much like to read some new features from a few SS "veterans."

Quoted from bert Talking about how hard it is to write a one-pager is just hooey.

Telling a complete story, not a joke, in 1 page was actually hard...

I agree about 5 pages though. I can write one of those in one sitting. They may not be like Mr. Z's master pieces, but I know I can crank those out with no problem.

One reason I always try to read and comment on "regular member's" features is because I admire people that can write them. I know it's hard. I have several scripts that I've abandoned around page 60 or so due to boredom.

Someone asked me today if I had written an outline for my SoulShadows script. I said no, because I never write an outline. (I know this is one of my big problems btw) I have tried to write outlines, but I tend to get bored with the story before I even start writing. That's my biggest hurdle as far as writing features go.

Reading and writing a feature takes time so I try to treat them with respect. For me it's a two day deal to read and comment on a feature. First time I just read it to get a general feel for it. Second time is to try to offer input. I'm a slow reader and this usually takes me at least five hours to accomplish. I think most people can't take that amount of time while at work or at a bus stop to do this, but you can with a five or fewer page script.

Anyway, I admire you people who can write features, but please don't knock all "micro-shorts". There's a huge demand for those and some of us just try to satisfy the market.

Some people are too focused on their everyday lives at present  to finish a feature and go through that tedious phase of rewriting, polishing it up, etc. Others might  just have tight schedule. Hell, even with Cielo, I am feeling pressured because I feel like I'm going at a snail's pace even though I'm going as fast as I can. This is because I can only write freely, without interruptions, about two-to-three hours a day. At least until this and one more week. Summer's coming soon.

But that isn't necessarily  a bad thing. Writing shorts can certainly give you plenty of experience to write your own feature some time when you're free. Like Pia said, writing an actual *story* in one or two pages is indeed something to be very proud of. If you learn to do that, writing your feature should be a walk in the park later on.

--Julio    

I've been writing a feature since last summer.  It takes a lot longer two write a few pages of a feature than it does to write a short of equal length.  I usually write two or three shorts while writing that feature.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe I've been writing a feature since last summer.  It takes a lot longer two write a few pages of a feature than it does to write a short of equal length.  I usually write two or three shorts while writing that feature.

Agreed. All of my short scripts posted on this website were written while I was writing my first feature.

Now that my feature is online, it's had more reads/comments than any of my short scripts. I was very surprised.

I'm in the process of writing a feature (well, two actually) and my reluctance to write a feature has had nothing to with how many reads I could get. For me, finishing a feature will be a monumental task and reward enough in itself (I'm thinking that if it'll get the reads it deserves). I've started on features before but I haven't been able to get it right. I don't know, I think it's some kind on mental hurdle that I need to negotiate. Writing a short is fairly easy but I just don't get that big a kick out of it anymore, I usually write them just to keep the creative juices flowing. But my goal is definitely to move up to features.

I used to exclusively write features, then I decided to try my hand at shorts.  Then I got addicted to writing shorts. Though I've learned quite a bit writing them, I'm getting a bit bored with shorts.  So, I am currently working on a feature.  You'll see it eventually.

I tried writing a script bout the same time I stopped posting comment on this here site.. Got about 40 pages in and it kinda fell apart. Now I'm back and rarin' to write. Though I think I'll cough up a few short first.

Writing a feature is a big step as a writer. Shorts are safe, because if its criticised you can shrug your shoulders and keep on writing, but with a feature.. its like a baby. When someone criticises your feature its like a donkey kicking your baby in the mouth.. Or so I'd imagine.

I've read 4 features from this board.

Bert's - The Farm.
Phil's - The Burnout
Both because they were highly recommended, and they are regulars on the boards.

The two others were either because I was asked to review them or because I liked the logline for it.

I'm really trying to write a feature but it is so difficult. My plan at the moment is to write a 40/50 page pure action (middle) and then add a start and an ending, which should take it upto feature length. That might be a good way to get the first one done.

Maybe people are also worried about posting a feature on here incase it gets stolen? I'm sure a lot of people are worried about that, also entering into competitions would mean they couldn't post it.

Ste

Interesting thread, James. I’ve been wondering the same. If you expect screenwriting to be more than a hobby in your life, you really have to write features. And damm good ones. Agents and producers don’t read shorts.

I’m “guilty” of submitting lots of shorts to this site and no features. Nevertheless, shorts only take up about 10% of the time I devote to writing. I write mostly features. I can say I’m averaging 3 features a year.

I don’t post them here because I don’t need objective feedback to realize that they suck. But with each try, I’m sucking a bit less. The moment I manage to crank out something decent, I will get it out there to know what you guys think.

For me, shorts are a just a complementary learning experience since I get some quick useful feedback. Also, I have fun writing them; it’s good to get a “break” from my features. And it’s satisfying to be able to show your friends a short movie with your name on it.

I rarely submit shorts because I'm long winded and can't seem to squeeze a story into so few pages (my last feature capped at 160 pages even after I trimmed it). Even the shorts I have done (mostly for the one week exercises) end up pushing the "short" envelope capping between 15 and 20 pages usually, and I've got more than one that run 45 to 50 pages to get the story done (got a compilation going on for those). I just can't get all the development I want out in that short a span.

But I will also admit that I haven't submitted a new feature in quite some time, but you'll find I have quite a few features out there. I have 11 features on this site along with 21 teleplay episodes that run around 45 pages or so (and SimplyNoir which fits neither category, really). This is versus the only 8 shorts I have and almost all of them were for exercises, since I don't really like writing shorts.

I've also got 4 other feature lengths I've failed to post, primarily because they were written for someone specifically and didn't need the comments and figured I wouldn't get very many anyway since it isn't fair for me to expect people to read my stuff without being able to read much in return at the moment. So I guess I differ from the strangers who post in that I won't post anything without being able to at least be the dork and post the first comment on my own script.

Quoted from bert It takes some serious cache around here, some begging, some pimping, lots of reads by the author, and a darn good premise to get many comments on a feature.  That is a witch's brew that few authors have been able to stomach lately.

I really don't think this is the case.  I bumped my "free reviews" thread on the review exchange forum over a week ago, and I still haven't gotten any requests.  And I specified that I want to review features.  The only condition I have for reading them is that they post the request on my thread.  Any genre is fine, regulars and newbies are treated the same, things like script length and plot aren't factors.  How much easier could I make it?

Pants also has a thread offering reviews, and he hasn't been getting any traffic lately either.  So whatever the reason is, difficulty in getting reviews shouldn't really be the cause.

I've read features by "regular members" lately, but they tend to be pre posting scripts.

I will read any regular member's feature...  

I think I promised Shelton a read, but never delivered on that promise, so by posting this, I'll remind myself.  

Mr. Z, you better let me read one of your features!  It'd be an honor, even if you think it sucks!  

Quoted from escapist I really don't think this is the case.  I bumped my "free reviews" thread on the review exchange forum over a week ago, and I still haven't gotten any requests.  And I specified that I want to review features.  The only condition I have for reading them is that they post the request on my thread.  Any genre is fine, regulars and newbies are treated the same, things like script length and plot aren't factors.  How much easier could I make it? Pants also has a thread offering reviews, and he hasn't been getting any traffic lately either.  So whatever the reason is, difficulty in getting reviews shouldn't really be the cause.

I'd be willing to bet your review threads haven't gotten responses because no one has any features for you to read. See? It's a viscious cycle.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I've read features by "regular members" lately, but they tend to be pre posting scripts.

What is "pre posting," exactly?

early drafts before they are ready to post for the general public

Quoted from Grandma Bear   I think I promised Shelton a read, but never delivered on that promise, so by posting this, I'll remind myself.

Did you?  I honestly don't remember that, unless you're referring to the script I emailed, at which point you could treat that as more of a casual read when you have time.

Speaking of emails, I got yours earlier.  I'll be on it soon.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Mr. Z, you better let me read one of your features!

I'm printing this as evidence... in case you change your mind when I send you my masterpiece "The Cabin Reloaded".

I've been a member here for a year or so and I have noticed a decline in features and a rise (obviously) in shorts.  I think there are some really good shorts posted but a lot from people I'e never heard of and never even seen on the boards.  I'm not saying this is a bad thing but sometimes I wonder if I should bother commenting on a script if I think they won't even beread by the author.

I'll hold up my hands and confess to not reading enough features myself but this is something I intend to change.  I have read a few and from regulars here and found them good. I guess you can't expect features to appear every week then they take so long to complete.  I wrote my one and only feature (to date) and it took me over a year and I can't say I was that happy with it.  It needs a good ewrite, and that won't be the first.

I'm doing a feature at the moments based on my scarefest episode and even wrote out an 8 step outline and treatment for it which I have to say has helped a great deal.  At least now I know where I'm going with it.

I think maybe the features will return, hopefully they will.  As long as writers get past the 'I hope someone doesn't steal this idea' image that runs round their head. Lol.

I think one big fear in some writers is "wasting their time" on a feature script that they believe will never go anywhere.  Right now I'm having a heckuva time starting a new script called "The Ungrateful" I've been kicking around in my head for over a year now.  

The big problem for me is that it's a slower, more melo dramatic story than I've done before.  I usually prefer to stay in the suspense thriller genre because it's much more marketable and attractive to indie producers.  

This new script is a courtroom drama that has to do with the church, religion, God and faith.  Much different than some guy in a mask stalking girls or two cops chasing a serial killer.  The usual stuff I churn out with dollar signs glowing in my eyes.

You can't think this way.  You can't say "I can't do it", or "It's a waste of time because so and so won't read it on simplyscripts".  If you have a story to tell, tell it.  For some of you, staying within the shorts catagory is something you're comfortable with, and, because of the short contests on this website, are sort of stuck in.  Don't get stuck.  Make yourself get started on a feature.  Especially if this is something you wanna do for a living.                

I have written two features that are ready and have been ready to be posted. (One has been ready for about two years) Neither have been posted because of the mind set around here that i do not agree with.

The sad part is that instead of trying to help writers, the members who adopted this mind set have completely raped all creativity from work that is posted that gets read.

That's just my opinion though.

When I first joined this site, I read two feature length scripts and wanted to kill myself for it.  They were painful reads but I thought I had to read them to the very end.  I don't think I posted reviews of these because I didn't want my first reviews to be, "You really really suck at writing."

Now I only read the first fifteen to twenty-five pages of a feature.  From there, I decide if I'm going to continue reading or just write a review based on what I read.  If the first fifteen or twenty-five pages of a script has poor characterization and is dragging, I'll review just this.  

Sometimes, the author will say, "It gets better after twenty-five pages.  For the most part, I don't believe this.  Why would the characters suddenly become realistic and interesting at the point that I stop reading?  Why would the story improve at this point?

If you send a script to Hollywood, you have to grab the reader right away.  If it doesn't grab him, your script ends up in the circular file.  No one is going to read your script, hoping it improves halfway through.  No one wants to watch a movie that gets better halfway through.

When someone reads your script, whether here or in Hollywood, he or she is doing you a favor.  There's a lot of scripts out there to reads.  He didn't have to pick yours.

Don't thank him with crap.


Phil

So I posted this a little over a year ago. Not much has changed since then and what seemed to be a phase at the time has now become standard. In fact, I think the shorts have gotten even shorter. I'm not resurrecting this thread to reiterate my original concerns. Honestly, I don't think we'll see more people writing features or even shorts on the longer end of the spectrum any time soon. I think the boards have changed somewhat since I first posted this. There's a helluva lot more people than before, many of them now regulars. It seems like the majority write primarily or even exclusively shorts yet seem pretty damn serious about screenwriting in general. So I ask. Thoughts on features? Are you trying to work yourself up to them? Not sure how to approach them? Already written one or two? Or do you just prefer shorts? Sometimes it seems like people just prefer shorts. Other times, it's a "pussy on the pedestal" situation (40 Year Old Virgin, anyone?).

Personally, I prefer features. I love movies so I try to write them myself. To me, shorts are shorts. College stuff. Calling cards for writers. Whatever. They're simple. They're fun. But they've never seemed like serious business to me. I've written a bunch but most have been for the OWC and have served as exercises for me. There're a few I'm particularly proud of but it's a lot more satisfying for me to write scripts that are intricate and full of guts. Shorts can be both but generally can only go so far. There's also way more opportunities to get personal with features as they take so much time to plan and write.

I'm still hoping features will pick up around here some time in the future. I've been around here a while now and they already feel like dinosaurs. Thoughts?

As a member of the, I mostly write features club. I don't always post them on SS purely because they have lazy readers.

You write a short - you'll probably get at least 250 oppinions. A feature, probably three; and only if you beg.

I do as many reviews as I can.

Somebody return the favour.

My over riding desire and firm intention is to write feature length screenplays, and eventually nothing but feature length screenplays.

For me the shorts that I have written are a means to this end. As I have previously mentioned, I have been through a long period during which I wrote nothing - seven years in total (and ten since my last feature, almost to the day now).

When I first began writing years ago, I began with shorts - some of them just 1 page long - but they were then as they are now, just a means to an end, a way to flex my creative muscles - I have no particular interest in short subjects, and if, and when, I get back to writing features, it is highly probable that I will cease to produce shorts at all, they having served their purpose (though I may do the odd OWC and the like).

I floated the idea of running a 6WC about features - where everyone taking part would try and write a full-length feature in six weeks, starting November 2nd - a few weeks ago. People expressed an interest, and I'll actually come back to it in the next few days (once the OWC is over).

I definitely think it's to do with the easiness of reads. People are more likely to comment on your 4 page high school reunion gag than your 115 page samurai epic...so which are you more likely to submit? I am surprised how many people (and anyone who frequents these boards, I am NOT talking about you) post a script and are hardly ever heard from again, perhaps occasionally turning up to reply to reviews of their own script. That seems a shame. I also think it might be a 'producable' thing - I've had a couple of shorts that attracted brief interest from producers via email, and that got me excited enough to write more, but since nothing came from that I've lost the motivation to try writing more. But if people are really anxious to see their work onscreen, then they have more chance if they're writing and posting shorts...

From a personal point of view, I'd love to write features. I haven't actually finished anything since my August OWC script, and it's driving me mad...the feature I started in May, which I genuinely thought I'd have wrapped up in a matter of weeks, is still dragging on, and is slowly driving me mad. It's not a length, thing, either - I'm just struggling to get the thing onpage. I've been writing like crazy for the past week, trying to get it done...we'll see. Shorts definitely have their place - they're a great way for beginners to get started (much better than trying to write a whole action film, for instance), they can be used to dabble in new genres or styles, and some ideas just work better as shorts.

But I do think that features - good, original features - are the ultimate goal. I agree that part of the problem is that until you've written one, it is 'up on a pedestal', so to speak. Again, this is where the 6WC may be able to help. Keep an eye on the 'Screenwriting Class' board over the next week...

James,

Thank you for standing up and being counted!!!

I'm writing features, but nothing I feel respectful about as yet.

It was an obligation for me to submit a script for the Shiva webseries game that Michael developed, and I generated a helluva lot of material and my finished draft is far from good, but it was a challenge and an exciting project to be involved in.

Right now, as we speak, I am trying to put forward energy toward 50 pages of script for Cielo that's been just "sitting" and Zack's had personal problems. The thing is: I think the important thing is the intent. Many of us are working really hard, but it might not SHOW right away as a finished script.

I think this all boils down to the fact that we should be LOVING WHAT WE DO AND NOT JUST TRYING TO GET SOMETHING!!!!!!

I feel actually that I am truly blessed to be able to just be here with you people. I think that's reward enough and I'm the person that OWES AND BIG TIME!!!!!

I've got full scripts on my computer that need to get read and I'm a slow reader. One of my first projects is to write a detailed review of George's book Fempiror Chronicles. Which!!!! I will say I am BLESSED TO READ!!!!  

One thing is certain! There's no shortage of work to be done and that's the exciting part!

Sandra

JonnyBoy, I was one of the ones who pledged a full length script - and then withdrew it. Why? Because I think It's wrong. The truth is i believe this site is ready for a top 50 unproduced showcase, with all the problems that entails.

How?

Follow sticky's rules.

Then go with general oppinion.

It's how most scripts from spec drag themselves out of the slush pile.

Yeah! I know this is hard and requires a big OK from Don.

What the hell..

I'm proposing it!

Quoted from dogglebe When I first joined this site, I read two feature length scripts and wanted to kill myself for it.  They were painful reads but I thought I had to read them to the very end.  I don't think I posted reviews of these because I didn't want my first reviews to be, "You really really suck at writing." Now I only read the first fifteen to twenty-five pages of a feature.  From there, I decide if I'm going to continue reading or just write a review based on what I read.  If the first fifteen or twenty-five pages of a script has poor characterization and is dragging, I'll review just this.   Sometimes, the author will say, "It gets better after twenty-five pages.  For the most part, I don't believe this.  Why would the characters suddenly become realistic and interesting at the point that I stop reading?  Why would the story improve at this point? If you send a script to Hollywood, you have to grab the reader right away.  If it doesn't grab him, your script ends up in the circular file.  No one is going to read your script, hoping it improves halfway through.  No one wants to watch a movie that gets better halfway through. When someone reads your script, whether here or in Hollywood, he or she is doing you a favor.  There's a lot of scripts out there to reads.  He didn't have to pick yours. Don't thank him with crap. Phil

I understand what you are saying. I have a hard time though NOT reading an entire script once I determine that it is an obligation for me.

When I commit to something, I can't NOT do it. I'm just obsessive like that. There have been the very few scripts that I just can't read through, but they are the exception. Once I commit, I commit. My goal is to try and bring the other person to realizing their fullest potential and I can't do it any other way. It really sucks sometimes, because I'd like to run away, but I can't.

We'll all just keep trying.

Sandra

It can take me over two hours to read a 30 page short and post my comments if I do it in detail - this is partially why I don't do features much, but I also find that many of those I have looked at are pretty poor - and I don't particularly want to spend my time struggling to get through a 120 page script when it is of little or no interest (especially as I currently have 54 produced screenplays on my laptop I wouldn't mind reading - from "Kane" to "Zombieland"!).

I do want to make an effort to read more features here, and if I do ever have one of my own to post, will obviously have to do so to ensure I get some reads! I should say though that I have seen some very good shorts disappear into oblivion with little or no reads so it is not just a question of the page count. Some scripts obviously just attract more attention than others.

Quoted from Niles_Crane It can take me over two hours to read a 30 page short and post my comments if I do it in detail - this is partially why I don't do features much, but I also find that many of those I have looked at are pretty poor - and I don't particularly want to spend my time struggling to get through a 120 page script when it is of little or no interest (especially as I currently have 54 produced screenplays on my laptop I wouldn't mind reading - from "Kane" to "Zombieland"!). I do want to make an effort to read more features here, and if I do ever have one of my own to post, will obviously have to do so to ensure I get some reads! I should say though that I have seen some very good shorts disappear into oblivion with little or no reads so it is not just a question of the page count. Some scripts obviously just attract more attention than others.

I'm completely weird now. I don't care about "The Reads". I care about the moment and what I'm learning from everyone.

Michael Cornetto and Pia and Gary and Tommy and Mike and Phil and  many others have  taught me so much and I'm so grateful!

Sandra

You know, I'd love to post a feature on here. A whole bunch. But, a problem arose. Just can't finish them.

I could go through the entire list of features I started on my flash drive and they all span between 02/2003 to present day.

I will be absolutely satisfied when I do finish one, and I'd be sure to post it up here promptly.

Shorts are not my thing. I usually invest time in writing features, and several at a time.

Speaking of which Aaron...when are we going to see something new from you? Your list of upcoming scripts seems to change almost daily - I'm curious to see what you've been writing!

Thanks man, well Wang is coming next, but I'm currently editing that. Which reminds me, I never found out how to import a PDF to SS?

I didn't look at the date of this thread at first - i thought James had just started it!  DOH!

It's funny cos I had never done a short a year ago, then did one for the january challenge and have done a few now.
I'm working on a feature, have been for some time. Actually have started three but they are in varying degrees of progress.
It is hard to find time for it and reading a feature can be tough too.

Remember we had two OWC's pretty close together, and people have been doing Thief and Killer before that.

I think Jonny's concept will be good. I would still like to see a project between a few of us? just my opinion, but the motivation of some deadline pressure seems to work for some people, me included.
Cheers

Hey James,

I guess some people don't want to talk about the feature they're writing because they might not want to look foolish by announcing it and then not following through. A while back I said I wasn't going to return to SS until I'd completed a feature. I thought it might’ve motivated me to write one but it didn't work. I just stayed away from SS for awhile and didn't write a feature. However, in my defence I've had a lot going on this year, I was working, studying and I've got three kids, so it's hard for me to find the time and energy to write. But I've finished studying this year and won't be studying again, until February next year, if at all. So I now have a window of opportunity to write my feature. At this stage I'm just brainstorming and slowly putting the treatment together. There's no guarantee it'll be something I'll want to inflict on the rest of the world by posting it on SS but I'll see how it goes.

I joined SS a few months ago because I hadn't written anything in way too long and I got the itch again. I was in the middle of writing a feature (now completed) and I had forgotten a LOT of the nuances of screenwriting I thought I knew (some of which were incorrect)

I have learned a lot in a short time and hope to establish myself as a regular on these boards. Not just so people will comment on my feature (which is always appreciated) but more to just read scripts (features, shorts, and everything in between) and absorb as much knowledge as possible from the good people who post here.

I have a ton of respect for people who can write anything well. Personally, I can't see myself writing shorts -- maybe one or two -- but features are what I'm most comfortable with. I understand that it is a major commitment to read someone else's 100-120 page story and then write a helpful and informative critique. That's a big block of time most people just don't have, and if they do invest that kind of time in someone else's work, they have every right to know whether or not the writer will acknowledge or appreciate those comments, much less reciprocate.

The first feature I was compelled to comment on was by someone who didn't respond until more than a month after I had commented. I wasn't even sure they had read my critique, and they eventually thanked me. Fine by me, I don't expect quid pro quo. I just want to know that my time is not going to waste. I'm assuming that's how others feel with respect to reading features, especially from newbies or non-members.

I hope the feature-length script isn't "dying" on these boards, because I do enjoy them and I read as many of them as I can. Even if I don't comment on others, I undoutebly learn something from each story and more often than not I'm entertained/occupied for an otherwise boring afternoon at the office.

Quoted from malcolm3 As a member of the, I mostly write features club. I don't always post them on SS purely because they have lazy readers. You write a short - you'll probably get at least 250 oppinions. A feature, probably three; and only if you beg. I do as many reviews as I can. Somebody return the favour.

Malcolm, you're on! if you've got something, send it my way!

Quoted from Niles_Crane It can take me over two hours to read a 30 page short and post my comments if I do it in detail - this is partially why I don't do features much, but I also find that many of those I have looked at are pretty poor - and I don't particularly want to spend my time struggling to get through a 120 page script when it is of little or no interest (especially as I currently have 54 produced screenplays on my laptop I wouldn't mind reading - from "Kane" to "Zombieland"!). I do want to make an effort to read more features here, and if I do ever have one of my own to post, will obviously have to do so to ensure I get some reads! I should say though that I have seen some very good shorts disappear into oblivion with little or no reads so it is not just a question of the page count. Some scripts obviously just attract more attention than others.

This is exactly why I have three features sitting on my desktop and one which I guess could be counted as a fourth since the early 2000's.

Why post them to rot away? It is easier to make exchanges through e mail.

I love shorts! Short scripts and short films. They fit my short attentionspan just right.

Do I read features? You bet! I read between 3-4 features every week. None are posted at SS. They are done via e-mail between "friends" I've met here.

I read shorts and comment on them here while taking a break from either writing or reading features. I suck at writing features btw... but I will try to concentrate on those as I believe shorts are not for the big game.  

Quoted from Takeshi Hey James, I guess some people don't want to talk about the feature they're writing because they might not want to look foolish by announcing it and then not following through. A while back I said I wasn't going to return to SS until I'd completed a feature. I thought it might’ve motivated me to write one but it didn't work. I just stayed away from SS for awhile and didn't write a feature. However, in my defence I've had a lot going on this year, I was working, studying and I've got three kids, so it's hard for me to find the time and energy to write. But I've finished studying this year and won't be studying again, until February next year, if at all. So I now have a window of opportunity to write my feature. At this stage I'm just brainstorming and slowly putting the treatment together. There's no guarantee it'll be something I'll want to inflict on the rest of the world by posting it on SS but I'll see how it goes.

You're correct Chris. We don't want to look foolish, but that's OK, I'll take upon all you guys' foolishness and have lots to spare!!!

Don't be afraid to post what you feel you have in-the-works and if it doesn't work out, I FOR ONE, WILL NOT HOLD IT AGAINST YOU!!! The best you can do IS TRY!!!! The worst you can do is fail. Failing is better than not trying.

I'm this close to dripping honey, but I'm going to call it and be Morticia again.  

Sandra

Thank's NJ. At the moment I've got side tracked away from my features and am trying to finish a pilot episode aimed primarily at the BBC writers room. It should be ready in the next week or so. I will post it once I'm reasonably happy with it. You get so much great help and advise on this site.

Although it would be wrong of me to mention his name, I asked one of the members whose oppinion I value to give one of my old features a go, with a view to a possible rewrite. His help was invaluable.

Quoted from Takeshi Hey James, I guess some people don't want to talk about the feature they're writing because they might not want to look foolish by announcing it and then not following through. A while back I said I wasn't going to return to SS until I'd completed a feature. I thought it might’ve motivated me to write one but it didn't work. I just stayed away from SS for awhile and didn't write a feature. However, in my defence I've had a lot going on this year, I was working, studying and I've got three kids, so it's hard for me to find the time and energy to write. But I've finished studying this year and won't be studying again, until February next year, if at all. So I now have a window of opportunity to write my feature. At this stage I'm just brainstorming and slowly putting the treatment together. There's no guarantee it'll be something I'll want to inflict on the rest of the world by posting it on SS but I'll see how it goes.

I did a similar thing by starting a WIP thread and was met with an ignorant useless comment but I DID finish the script after that and I even locked the thread as is done when the scripts are posted.

I get more satisfaction out of finishing a script anyway. The whole posting a script for others thoughts can prove pointless at the end especially when they get lost in a day.

Quoted from NJDevil I just want to know that my time is not going to waste. I'm assuming that's how others feel with respect to reading features, especially from newbies or non-members.

I think this is a valid point.  I should read more features, and am infact reading one now, but it takes me an age to finish.  I read so slowly and also make notes as I go so I generally only read from people I know will repsond to my thoughts.  I don't do this because I need a response but simply, I don't want to waste my time on someone who will never show up, or show up every now and then to simply say 'thanks'.  I'd rather spend my time reading a members script and offer any thoughts and suggestions knowing they will at least look over them, and whether they agree or not is not the important issue.  Knowing they appreciate the read and comments is the important thing here, I think.

Having spent months writing a feature I think it can be a bit daunting to post, knowing you will probably only recieve a few reads and they could all be negative ones, but that's the nature of the game isn't it?  Maybe being told your 12 month baby is rubbish is just to hard to swallow?

Personally, I enjoy writing both shorts and features.  I am extremely slow at writing and my two features to date took me around a year each to complete.  Even my shorts take months to finish, hence my OWC efforts are indeed challenges! lol.

I'm not really into "shorts" to be honest. I did one for a OWC a while ago and another which isn't posted here because I haven't laid eyes on it for over six months, but that's it. I haven't took part in the last 2 OWC competitions because I'm working on a few features.

My target is to have two brand new features in different genres, the final rewrite of my posted horror script and two full scene-by-scene outlines of two other projects before the new year. It's a target I'm well on course to make, which is pleasing as I'd been stuck on writing then rewriting my first script for the first 6/7 months of this year.

I've been lucky enough to have loads of feedback on my script, both on this site and through e-mail with members on here, all of which helped greatly.

It does annoy me when people post their work, and sometimes get lots of feedback, but either never return to even say thanks, or worse, do and just go "well, you obviously don't understand my work!" when they don't like what is said. This begs the question of why they post their work in the first place - unless they think they will just get unreserved praise!

It is not nice when you see someone who has posted a number of scripts and had a lot of feedback, but who never sets foot outside of his own threads. It's rude and ungrateful, I think!

I am guiltily aware that I owe several people reads! I need to make an effort to get that sorted. But at least I am guilty about it!

I am guiltily aware that I owe several people reads! I need to make an effort to get that sorted. But at least I am guilty about it!




You're one of the few, we all owe a read to.

Quoted from Niles_Crane It does annoy me when people post their work, and sometimes get lots of feedback, but either never return to even say thanks, or worse, do and just go "well, you obviously don't understand my work!" when they don't like what is said. This begs the question of why they post their work in the first place - unless they think they will just get unreserved praise! It is not nice when you see someone who has posted a number of scripts and had a lot of feedback, but who never sets foot outside of his own threads. It's rude and ungrateful, I think!

I'd have to agree and add "Why post in the exchange board if you just want blind praise and not actual feedback?"

I wasted my time reading a feature from said board when all the writer wanted was blind praise which he got from others but the first time someone looks at it without the blinds they are wrong.

That board should only be for those who want to make a screenplay better.

Frankly "the goose" whom I have no problem with personally but he should be taken off as the moderator of that specific board (Due to inactivity) and someone put in his place to keep a watchful eye on that thread.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Frankly "the goose" whom I have no problem with personally but he should be taken off as the moderator of that specific board (Due to inactivity) and someone put in his place to keep a watchful eye on that thread.

Don't get me started on inactive mods. There're a few of them who need to be stripped of their mod status and replaced by people who are here more often. Perhaps we should PM suggestions to Don.

I'm very active, but I've been told I'm too emotional to be a mod...

What the fuck is that supposed to mean??  I'm as stable as any other writer on this planet and don't f^@#&#g  dare trying to tell me other wise!!

Adding more mods is pointless as long as the core group of us don't die or leave.

Deleting mods ( I'm all for since they have moved on or only come back when they need something.

BTW I veered this off topic. I'm so bad.

well see!!!

If I was a mod, I would have spanked you for that off topic comment!!!

Vee must have discipline!!!

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Adding more mods is pointless as long as the core group of us don't die or leave. Deleting mods ( I'm all for since they have moved on or only come back when they need something.

American Syco, Andrew Romance, henrik, lesleyjl21, the Goose and Rob S shouldn’t be mods in my opinion.  They never even post here and certainly never moderate.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I'm very active, but I've been told I'm too emotional to be a mod... What the fuck is that supposed to mean??  I'm as stable as any other writer on this planet and don't f^@#&#g  dare trying to tell me other wise!!

I’ve been involved in too many controversial threads to be a mod.  

At least this site has Moderators - the last writers site I was on didn't, and it's forums were a complete nightmare! So much flaming went on that it looked like a Californian hillside!

Quoted from Niles_Crane So much flaming went on that it looked like a Californian hillside!

?

I agree, though. We don't need more mods, so long as the ones who are still active are doing it and the forums are staying nice and tidy.

We just need more active Mods really.

Wow. I see the big mod clean out of 09 has happened.

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?v-members/a-groups/group-7/



  

Quoted from Aaron We just need more active Mods really.

I think the mods here (bert, Mike, George, Wes and MC) are all pretty active.

Quoted from Aaron We just need more active Mods really.

What?  You don't get deleted enough for your liking?  We can work on that  

Yeah -- once the conversation was brought up in this thread, Don decided it was time to trim some of the inactive mods.

For those who do not recognize Rob S, he is still around from time to time.  He will sometimes post on the Poetry board -- and he doesn't need to watch that board too close.  I mean, how often do fights break out amongst the poets?

Quoted from sniper I think the mods here (bert, Mike, George, Wes and MC) are all pretty active.

Oh yeah, I mean some of the others who are never on(The ones who have
been trimmed)

Quoted from bert What?  You don't get deleted enough for your liking?  We can work on that

That's not what I meant Bert

Quoted from James McClung So I posted this a little over a year ago. Not much has changed since then and what seemed to be a phase at the time has now become standard. In fact, I think the shorts have gotten even shorter. I'm not resurrecting this thread to reiterate my original concerns. Honestly, I don't think we'll see more people writing features or even shorts on the longer end of the spectrum any time soon. I think the boards have changed somewhat since I first posted this. There's a helluva lot more people than before, many of them now regulars. It seems like the majority write primarily or even exclusively shorts yet seem pretty damn serious about screenwriting in general. So I ask. Thoughts on features? Are you trying to work yourself up to them? Not sure how to approach them? Already written one or two? Or do you just prefer shorts? Sometimes it seems like people just prefer shorts. Other times, it's a "pussy on the pedestal" situation (40 Year Old Virgin, anyone?). Personally, I prefer features. I love movies so I try to write them myself. To me, shorts are shorts. College stuff. Calling cards for writers. Whatever. They're simple. They're fun. But they've never seemed like serious business to me. I've written a bunch but most have been for the OWC and have served as exercises for me. There're a few I'm particularly proud of but it's a lot more satisfying for me to write scripts that are intricate and full of guts. Shorts can be both but generally can only go so far. There's also way more opportunities to get personal with features as they take so much time to plan and write. I'm still hoping features will pick up around here some time in the future. I've been around here a while now and they already feel like dinosaurs. Thoughts?

What's basically happening is the site has adapted to the market. People get more reads and more interest from filmmakers with shorts. Shorts are easier to read and easier to make and the vast majority of filmmakers who visit the site are not going to be at the stage where they can make a feautre.

The majority of filmmakers are looking for simple things to film, few characters, locations and contemporary and this is driving people to write that kind of script.

People do need to keep their eye on their true goal though, whatever that may be.

From my own point of view, I simply don't have the time to read features regularly. To read one and then comment in reasonable depth could take as much as 5 hours. It's simply too much of a commitment. I'll look at the premise and the first few pages then usually stop there.

There's also the fact that some of those I've read have been commented on in depth and I've agreed with earlier posters. It doesn't seem worth repeating points already made.

I disagree with the point you've made about shorts in general. I think it's important for writers to develop their feature writing skills, because you always need to have projects ready to go for when an opening develops. However shorts are still a way into the game.

A well-produced short will get you one meeting with major players and give you the opportunity to pitch your bigger stuff. Perhaps that's more from a Producers/Directors point of view, but it's still a valid point I think.

In general I would also say that most features are less serious than shorts. Most features tend to be quite generic and made just for entertainment. Short filmmakers take a lot more risks, because they are cheaper to produce.

The problem is that on here (and this isn't a criticism, I do it myself with shorts) too many shorts are written to be throw away gags and they don't deal with serious issues. You make mention of 30 minute shorts, but in all honesty a 30 minute short needs to be Oscar quality. To get into a festival it has to be better than almost any film made that year, because they could play 6 five minute ones in its place.

It's also extremely hard to make use of. Hard to get into a festival, not long enough to sell. 30 minutes strikes me as ridiculously long for a short, it suggests a story too long to really be told in short form, but one too small for a feature.

Look at a film like Spielzeugland (Toyland). This won an Oscar, made hundreds of thousands in prize money alone and deals with Nazi Germany. It's only 13 minutes long.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1280548/

What I'd like to see is people being a little bolder in the topics that they attempt to deal with. We live in a world where slavery still exists, where genocide is a daily practice etc yet the vast majority of "amateur" writers tell very small stories. Make the stories huge, with incredible imagination or incredible drama, or both so that people beg to see or read something else that you've written.

The world is full of good screenwriters and good stories, you need to aim for the truly extraordinary.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I disagree with the point you've made about shorts in general. I think it's important for writers to develop their feature writing skills, because you always need to have projects ready to go for when an opening develops. However shorts are still a way into the game.

This is true. But the way you put it, "a way into the game," would suggest a way into writing features for production. I think this would be the case more often than writers working their way up to "bigger" shorts. It's all a matter of what you want to do with your stories. If you want a slew of short films produced with your name on them, that's cool. But it seems like most writers set their sights a little higher. This is what I mean by "not serious business." It's the first rung on most writers ladders, I'd expect. Besides, it seems more likely to write a feature that gets produced on a small scale than a short that gets nominated for an Oscar or whatever.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films In general I would also say that most features are less serious than shorts. Most features tend to be quite generic and made just for entertainment. Short filmmakers take a lot more risks, because they are cheaper to produce.

Absolutely true on a mass scale. But on an individual basis, I don't think so. Features, by nature, have a greater capacity for being complex than shorts do. There's just far too many writers who produce garbage for this to be true on a whole. Also, I don't judge script's merit based on whether it tackles "serious issues" or not. I won't presume to know what you meant by "serious issues" but personally, I'm way more for escapism than some bullshit social commentary/political statement by some blowhard who thinks they're important. That's not to say I don't try to explore larger issues in some of my own scripts. I do (I try, anyway). But I do it to make the writing more interesting for me and also enhance the more mundane events of the story. But when the "issues" take the lead in the script, I think that's when the stories suffer.

Then again, I could have you all wrong and either way, this all depends on what draws you to film in the first place. Seems like you prefer films of a more "relevant" nature.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films The world is full of good screenwriters and good stories, you need to aim for the truly extraordinary.

I totally agree! Set your sights high. Even if you don't completely reach your goal, you'll have something better than if you'd started with lower standards.

Quoted from James McClung This is true. But the way you put it, "a way into the game," would suggest a way into writing features for production. I think this would be the case more often than writers working their way up to "bigger" shorts. It's all a matter of what you want to do with your stories. If you want a slew of short films produced with your name on them, that's cool. But it seems like most writers set their sights a little higher. This is what I mean by "not serious business." It's the first rung on most writers ladders, I'd expect. Besides, it seems more likely to write a feature that gets produced on a small scale than a short that gets nominated for an Oscar or whatever. Absolutely true on a mass scale. But on an individual basis, I don't think so. Features, by nature, have a greater capacity for being complex than shorts do. There's just far too many writers who produce garbage for this to be true on a whole. Also, I don't judge script's merit based on whether it tackles "serious issues" or not. I won't presume to know what you meant by "serious issues" but personally, I'm way more for escapism than some bullshit social commentary/political statement by some blowhard who thinks they're important. That's not to say I don't try to explore larger issues in some of my own scripts. I do (I try, anyway). But I do it to make the writing more interesting for me and also enhance the more mundane events of the story. But when the "issues" take the lead in the script, I think that's when the stories suffer. Then again, I could have you all wrong and either way, this all depends on what draws you to film in the first place. Seems like you prefer films of a more "relevant" nature. I totally agree! Set your sights high. Even if you don't completely reach your goal, you'll have something better than if you'd started with lower standards.

Like I say, a top notch short=one meeting with the major players. At this point you pitch your feature. A top notch short can be very serious business indeed. It's common to use a short as a promo to get funding for a similar styled feature.

Hooking up with an up and coming Director is another way in. Peter Jackson is still working with the guy that helped him on Bad taste all those years ago. They first worked on a silly horror short together.

When you dismiss them as college stuff or whatever you're essentially denying yourself one of the paths to getting a feature produced.

Couple of things about shorts generally. Theoretically a feature can be more complex. In practice features tend to spoon feed the audience a lot more. The simple fact is that it costs so much to make a feature that people tend to make films that attempt to appeal to a wide audience, the wider audience you try to appeal to, the simpler the story becomes.

A complex feature will simply be too much for the average audience member to comprehend. The vast majority of features are written so that 12 year olds can understand them.

Shorts will tend to be viewed by a smaller but much more savvy audience and can therefore break more rules and do things that the mainstream can't touch.

Another thing is that a complex feature will tend to focus on numerous characters, so the time is split between the development of several people. 10 minutes spent focussed on one specific character or story line can easily be equivalent to the time spent in a 2 hour feature where there are multiple characters and subplots.

Leaving that aside and moving onto your other point: Escapism is the biggest seller at the Box office, it's what most people want. The problem is from a writers point of view is that your market for selling that kind of film is tiny, you can only really target the major studios (Independents and smaller companies won't be able to afford to make them). You're competing with the biggest trademarks in the world, like Harry Potter etc. Unless you move to LA, get an agent and really market yourself, it's going to be hard.

Not impossible, but hard.

It seems to me that a lot of the filmmakers/writers that make the escapist stuff broke in with films slightly off the beaten tracks or that deal with serious issues. Off the top of my head Ang Lee, Chris Nolan, Paul W. S Anderson, Frank Darabont. Even Spielberg made the quirky Amblin.

Go through the Top 250 on IMDb and look at the first films of the top Directors and writers they're almost universally weird little things or films that dealt with social topics.

It all depends on how you look at it, really.

I started by attempting features. The ideas are there but I never get near finishing them. Even this stupid pilot I've been working on for 3 years, isn't halfway done. So, I moved to shorts because I figured they were of a manageable length where I could finish them. And, I was right.

But, I'm not as happy writing shorts as I am trying features. It's just not as fun, but neither is failing. So, I keep working on the features, while putting out shorts and hope that eventually one will get finished.

Quoted from James McClung I totally agree! Set your sights high. Even if you don't completely reach your goal, you'll have something better than if you'd started with lower standards.

It's interesting you should say that because I was recently reading a book called Writing Your Way by Manjusvara (a Buddhist) and I came across this:

Quoted Text When asked in an interview what happened if he hit a block and could not write, Stafford calmly answered, "I just lower my standards". Mischievous and provocative, this is surely the best response to the wrongly applied inner critic that we can hope to find. Stafford's friend Robert Bly has described it as one of the most helpful statements about writing he heard in forty years, but I would go further and say it is simply one of the most helpful statements about life. I cannot think of any activity that does not benefit from this especially when we are new to it. Lowering your standards opens up the fixed, blocked, sense of self that says, "I can do this, but I cannot do that," and makes us more provisional, more curious and less afraid.