Folks have a tendency to fight for their scripts.  You suggest that a scene might not work well.  The writer wants to defend their masterpiece.  A re-write of the scene never occurs.  Instead, the writer points out that the reviewer is wrong.  Their script is perfect.

I have seen the above behavior a lot.  And it's not very productive.

First drafts are usually pretty bad, so why the defensiveness?

Now, considering that we are writing a shared medium, where actors, directors, producers, editors, script polishers, etc. impact the performance of a script, how can someone not be completely open to changing their script?

What do you think?  And do you kept drafts, so that you can see the progress of your script over time?

tweak

My big problem (and a lot of people share this with me) is that some writers submit their script as soon as they finish their first drafts.  These scripts are filled with typos, misspellings and other problems that could be resolved by simply clicking the spellcheck button.

The reason some people get upset when their work is criticized (even when it's first draft) is because you're essentially telling them that their baby is ugly.

Often, these writers have had their friends read their scripts and they think it rocks.  Problem with this is that the bar is a little higher on SS and we are not as easily impressed....especially with cool scripts.



Phil

On the other hand a writer is entitled to make whatever changes they deem fit for their creation.  They don't have to and should not make every change that is suggested.  

You seem to be posting a lot of these little threads.

I, for one, am guilty of fighting for my script.  However, I like to think of it as sticking up for my ideas that you are essentially bashing.  When a group of people like a certain idea or story and then suddenly someone else comes in and tells you it sucks...well, it's hard to agree with them.  It's also hard to suddenly change your script based on that one person's opinion and risk losing all those people who liked it as it is just to please the sole basher.

Now if people keep pointing out a certain problem over and over again, well then you should consider going back and looking it over.  But if it's one person, then I say fight for your idea.

You just gotta remember that there's no way you can please everyone.  Sooner or later someone is not going to like your script.  It doesn't mean you have to immediately go out and change it.

That doesn't mean I turn down every suggestion.  If I feel it could make the story better, I will definitely consider the idea.

That's just my two cents.  I actually like it when I see people "fighting for their script" because it means, to me, that they're proud of their work.  What's wrong with that?

The problem is when someone takes the time to read and review your script and you fight it every minute... future readers will not put as much into reviewing your work.

I agree with people who fight back against people who read a couple pages but if someone reads through a longer script, you should at least acknowledge that you appreciate the help even if you find nothing useful in what they said.

I think most regular members here - forget about Alien5Writer - are pretty open to critique and in general will take critique in the manner in which is was given. But critiques/reviews all boils down to taste and interpretation and you seldom see two people who think alike. I think it's perfectly fine if the writer and reviewer don't agree and I would expect anyone to defend something they believe is "right" (for lack of a better word).

I don't think it's possible to satisfy everyone and I don't think anybody should try to do that. At some point you have to stick to your principles (I'm referring to spec scripts here and not a paid job cos' that would obviously be something entirely different).  

My problem is when the writer agrees that something should be done better or in a different way in a script but then don't do anything about it. Then you're just begging not to be taken seriously anymore.

Alien5writer is not the only one who has done this.  Others have posted their scripts and got nasty when they're told their scripts need work.  Or just say that they'll do better next write and ignore all past criticism.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe Alien5writer is not the only one who has done this.

Certainly...but that guy really stood out.

Hahaha, I couldn't agree more bud.  You're absolutely right, people do tend to get a little tense and refuse to fix their problems.  If people refuse, then there's no real point to posting their scripts if they aren't going to make changes.  I mean come on guys, let's all be honest with ourselves, NONE of us enjoy getting notes and critique, we all don't like it because we put a lot of time and effort in our screenplays, and they're chewed up and spat back out in our faces.  None of us ENJOY that, but hey, it's essential to making a proper screenplay.  Once you turn in your first draft, you wait for notes, and the SECOND anyone says they stopped reading after 10 pages, you get your butt in gear and start re-working your screenplay.  I definitely feel that you are supposed to listen to advice given and be GRATEFUL that someone actually took the time to give it to you.

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Hahaha, I couldn't agree more bud.  You're absolutely right, people do tend to get a little tense and refuse to fix their problems.  If people refuse, then there's no real point to posting their scripts if they aren't going to make changes.  I mean come on guys, let's all be honest with ourselves, NONE of us enjoy getting notes and critique, we all don't like it because we put a lot of time and effort in our screenplays, and they're chewed up and spat back out in our faces.  None of us ENJOY that, but hey, it's essential to making a proper screenplay.  Once you turn in your first draft, you wait for notes, and the SECOND anyone says they stopped reading after 10 pages, you get your butt in gear and start re-working your screenplay.  I definitely feel that you are supposed to listen to advice given and be GRATEFUL that someone actually took the time to give it to you.

You shouldn't make changes unless you agree with them. The point of feedback is getting a new perspective on your script and sometimes that means some hard truths you have to swallow, but an unconscious assembly line re-write is pointless.

And do most people here really submit their very first draft? I don't. I'm always on my 2nd or 3rd once I deem them good enough to go on SS.

Quoted from Death Monkey You shouldn't make changes unless you agree with them. The point of feedback is getting a new perspective on your script and sometimes that means some hard truths you have to swallow, but an unconscious assembly line re-write is pointless. And do most people here really submit their very first draft? I don't. I'm always on my 2nd or 3rd once I deem them good enough to go on SS.

Newer members tend to post only their first draft, sometimes longer term members do too.  I personally haven't.  I went through 8 drafts of a single screenplay before I felt it could go on SS, and ultimately, I never posted it.  

But as for change.  Well no, I don't mean going through ANY changes, but I mean usually they're on the money, wouldn't you say?

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Newer members tend to post only their first draft, sometimes longer term members do too.  I personally haven't.  I went through 8 drafts of a single screenplay before I felt it could go on SS, and ultimately, I never posted it.   But as for change.  Well no, I don't mean going through ANY changes, but I mean usually they're on the money, wouldn't you say?

Usually when everybody highlights the same problems, yes, but I've been in a situation where a great number of people felt an element in my script needed revising, and despite their best efforts to convince me, I wasn't.

I never did change it, because I believed that part was integral to the script. Eventually the script went on to win first place in a big competition.

My point is, if you change something and you don't understand why you're changing it yourself, you're not gonna replace it with anything good.

Sometimes you also have to believe in your vision and be resilient.

Quoted from Death Monkey Usually when everybody highlights the same problems, yes, but I've been in a situation where a great number of people felt an element in my script needed revising, and despite their best efforts to convince me, I wasn't. I never did change it, because I believed that part was integral to the script. Eventually the script went on to win first place in a big competition. My point is, if you change something and you don't understand why you're changing it yourself, you're not gonna replace it with anything good. Sometimes you also have to believe in your vision and be resilient.

You know, actually that's a really good point bud.  I mean usually they ARE right, but not in every case.  Ah I see what you're saying.

Quoted from Death Monkey You shouldn't make changes unless you agree with them. The point of feedback is getting a new perspective on your script and sometimes that means some hard truths you have to swallow, but an unconscious assembly line re-write is pointless.

I agree completely. Even when a bunch of people pinpoint the same issue, you shouldn't change it unless you believe it needs to be changed. 9 times out of 10, these guys are right but 9 times out of 10 isn't all the time. One should also keep in mind that aside from formatting errors and such, these comments are people's opinions. A lot of the writers here have a lot of experience on their hands. A good number of them have more than I do so I trust their judgments. Still, I've yet to revise a script based on comments I didn't agree with or didn't understand.

Still, I do think there are a few people here who could do well to humble themselves and be open to advice. It's not just the inexperienced writers/newcomers either. There've been some really talented writers around who've basically shot down any advice just because they want to be right.

Another approach is to make the change, resubmit the draft, and say that you are really not certain about the change.  It just doesn't appear to work for you.

Then, folks might come back and say that you did understand what they meant.  This does happen.

There is no harm in rewriting a scene and omitting it later.

tweak