Quoted from tweak Another approach is to make the change, resubmit the draft, and say that you are really not certain about the change.  It just doesn't appear to work for you. Then, folks might come back and say that you did understand what they meant.  This does happen. There is no harm in rewriting a scene and omitting it later. tweak

What would you possible gain by rewriting a scene you don't think should be rewritten, replacing it with something you feel is inferior and then resubmitting just so people can pat you on the back and go "thanks for listening"?

Quoted from Death Monkey What would you possible gain by rewriting a scene you don't think should be rewritten, replacing it with something you feel is inferior and then resubmitting just so people can pat you on the back and go "thanks for listening"?

We are talking about revising a scene that might be maybe a page or two long, right?

That's where I struggle in this conversation.  It doesn't seem like a big deal to me.  I think, it's a bigger deal to suggest re-ordering of scenes or cutting huge chunks out.

tweak

Quoted from tweak We are talking about revising a scene that might be maybe a page or two long, right? That's where I struggle in this conversation.  It doesn't seem like a big deal to me.  I think, it's a bigger deal to suggest re-ordering of scenes or cutting huge chunks out. tweak

The point isn't whether or not it's a big deal, the point is you shouldn't arbitrarily change something just because someone tells you to. Unless they're paying you. You need to be critical towards criticism as well.

So I ask again, what would you gain in doing so? I'm struggling here as well.

Quoted from tweak Another approach is to make the change, resubmit the draft, and say that you are really not certain about the change.  It just doesn't appear to work for you.

Why on Earth would you want to do that? That's sucking up to someone you don't agree with. That makes absolutely no sense. Please, grow a spine.

It's something of a non-issue in my honest opinion.

If people don't take anything from the criticism, then it is their loss. What difference does it make?

It merely means that you won't bother commenting on their work again and can concentrate on others who are more deserving or needing of the help.

The good thing about scripts are that there are independent barometers of quality. You have festivals and a body of filmmakers looking for material. perhaps those writers who refuse to take advice will ultimately change their ways when they fail to achieve success in those areas....

Let me clarify.

If someone suggests trying to do a scene a certain way, I see no harm in trying it out that way.  It opens me up to new possibilities I did not think about originally.  This has nothing to do with being a hard ass and saying that you're right and everyone else is wrong.

Ultimately, your script is going to be interpreted by a director, producer, editor, actor and other people, so it's gonna change whether you want it to or not.  I am just suggesting to be open to try new things out.  You can interpret that has having no spine.  But I like working with people.

My gut reaction when someone says something bad is to think they're wrong.  But then, I want to try out their suggestion to confirm what, I think.  There is some confirmation bias here, but I like the idea of being exposed to new ideas.  If I keep telling everybody that their wrong, how will I ever be able to collaborate with a group of people later on?  And why would people continue to provide feedback, if I keep discounting it and not trying it out?

tweak

Quoted from tweak I am just suggesting to be open to try new things out.  You can interpret that has having no spine.  But I like working with people.

But we're not talking about a paying gig (where the rules are certainly different), we're talking about reviews and critiques here on this board (at least, that's what I got from your very first post in this thread). And you're saying that if someone suggest that you change your script, then you would do that, even if you don't agree with the changes. To me, that's selling out.

It's okay to disagree with a reviewer. It is, after all, just an opinion.

Exactly.

If you don't discriminate between the criticism you agree with and the criticism you don't the screenplay you're writing isn't yours, it's the people's you're trying to please.

There's an old proverb that goes "you can put a lot of crap into a too open mind".

Be open to criticism. But be critical towards it too. You need to have a strong voice as a writer, and that means that you to know where your script is going and where it's definitely not going. If I say "add more killer robots!" to your romantic comedy, it would be an invaluable skill to be able to say "Wow that's a crap suggestion! I'm not using that".

Quoted from sniper But we're not talking about a paying gig (where the rules are certainly different), we're talking about reviews and critiques here on this board (at least, that's what I got from your very first post in this thread). And you're saying that if someone suggest that you change your script, then you would do that, even if you don't agree with the changes. To me, that's selling out. It's okay to disagree with a reviewer. It is, after all, just an opinion.

But how will you be prepared for a paying gig, if you are not opening yourself to try new things?  Routine breeds habits.

tweak

Quoted from tweak But how will you be prepared for a paying gig, if you are not opening yourself to try new things?

How would you even get a paying gig if you can't write something that's yours?

If you disagree with a review, a polite "thank you" is all that's really necessary.  That response will never be incorrect -- you will never sound like a jack-ass -- it will always be appropriate.

But there is nothing wrong with critiquing your critiquer.  

When you get a review you disagree with, that is when you should go and read something THEY have written -- fairly, with an unbiased eye -- and based upon that you can often decide whether or not their advice has any merit.

That's how I do it, anyway.

Every critique which is more than cursory is a good critique.

It's important to take cues from other people whose work we respect; then too, it's good to absorb the comments from others who may have very different visions than us even if they are young writers who are also stumbling over those big blocks, but nevertheless involved in the early stages of growth.

Paying attention to all of the comments can help in the expansion of our work-- we can look at it in ways we otherwise wouldn't have.

I see that the posts in this thread collectively hold a balanced philosophy: Don't rush to change your script just because... But pay attention to what others have to say...

In total, we must let go of all defensiveness.  We're here to learn and to support others in that same effort.  

It is hard though.  We must first do something poorly before we can do something well.  

Always remember: A professional is an amateur who never quit.

Sandra

I appreciate criticism since it allows the writer to know what he/she did good and what he/she did bad. The bad part is obvious; the good part is what he/she doesn't mention as bad or mentions as good parts.  The writer just has to critique the critiquer's advice to make sure it's where he/she wants the story to go.

Gabe

Hey,

The general consensus seems to be take all criticism with a grain of salt and I agree with that. As others have said, some people have different visions for how a character or screenplay should go, I'd even take it a step further to say that sometimes people just plain don't get, which isn't a bad thing (I'm sure I've been guilty of it too), in its way, that kind of feedback is also very useful.

Also, I know on my scripts I've second guessed criticisms by trying to explain what I was trying to do to the reader. After reading this it's just occurred to me that I might have been interpreted as being defensive. I want to make clear that wasn't really my primary intent, rather I was putting out what I was trying to do and bounce that off of my reader in they hope that I would get more targeted feed back. I hope people don't get put off by that kind of thing, I don't think they should be put off anyway, by thinking that the author is being combative or something. If it creates a dialog, which is what I was trying to do, I think thats more beneficial in the long run and you'll get more in depth feedback.

Another thing is the people who seem to only take feedback from people they respect, while as a general rule of thumb I agree, I also think its important not to just discount any criticism of the bat no matter where it comes from(perhaps there are some exceptions). Or in other words, take all criticism with a gain of salt and take criticism from people you don't respect with a block of salt.

sheepwalker