Quoted from LC Care to share anything standout that you learned; that perhaps you didn't know before?

There was a lot to absorb, so I'm going to have to listen to our conversation again. I'm a little too busy right now, but when I do go back to do the next, hopefully last, rewrite, I will have a more clear idea of what I need to do. He was pricey, but I felt I was talking to a real pro in the business, not just someone who's sniffed it from the outside. I would share the video consult, but I don't want to without his permission and I don't want to ask for that.  

Btw, he asked me what else I'm working on and I mentioned Killer Cargo and he said he'd love to read it because he worked with Bruckheimer on Con-Air!  

I looked him up, and yep you felt like that cause you were actually talking to a real Pro. Sounds like a great experience and well worth the price-tag.

Wow, would definitely take him up on the offer to read Killer Cargo, but I'd like to read it first. Of course I realise it needs writing first. How far are you into it? I know you have other interruptions at the moment..  

Every now and then I think we must finish/rewrite Relentless - I still think something good is at the core of that. When I was reading Scriptshadow the other day Carson was talking about the character building being key to the success of films like it and I agree.

Quoted from LC I looked him up, and yep you felt like that cause you were actually talking to a real Pro. Sounds like a great experience and well worth the price-tag.

Well, it's not something I could afford for every script, but if you add up several coverage/feedback charges and so on, it doesn't take long before you're at the same price tag. I think Carson charges $500... I only did this because I either want to shoot this myself or sell it and I needed to find out if it was even worth the pursuit or if I should just give up on this one.

Quoted from LC Wow, would definitely take him up on the offer to read Killer Cargo, but I'd like to read it first. Of course I realise it needs writing first. How far are you into it? I know you have other interruptions at the moment..

LOL! Yeah, I'm not keen on putting first drafts of features up online for the world to see. Does Scriptshadow even have a plan for those who actually finished a script?

Quoted from LC Every now and then I think we must finish/rewrite Relentless - I still think something good is at the core of that. When I was reading Scriptshadow the other day Carson was talking about the character building being key to the success of films like it and I agree.

Yes! And, that was one thing he was talking about. He said that he's currently working on casting for a movie and you need to ask yourself, these actors do 3-5 films/year, what is it about your characters that would make them chose your project over the other hundred they were sent.

I know the characters in Pet-Cam need work and I think it might stem from me being so used to writing shorts that it's a big thing that I really need to work on transitioning into features and short stories.

Quoted from Grandma Bear https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JS0_DsXBbO_xXjcdWh4JJYZ4wR3QFaxC/view?usp=sharing

Thanks for sharing this! He certainly seems to know his stuff. I'm curious about the "fix spacing" between scene headers. It looks fine to me? I really like your premise here. Sounds like you're in the midst of making some edits, but let me know once you have a latest draft. Would love to read!

Quoted from kev Thanks for sharing this! He certainly seems to know his stuff. I'm curious about the "fix spacing" between scene headers. It looks fine to me? I really like your premise here. Sounds like you're in the midst of making some edits, but let me know once you have a latest draft. Would love to read!

When I first read his comments on the script, I was embarrassed at my mistakes. Honestly, I've read the script so many times and the fact that I never noticed the spacing issues bothered me. We also had a conversation about mini slugs and CAPITALIZED words. I might go over it and share some day, but right now I've got my hands full with other real life stuff. I will definitely share here when I do the next rewrite. Right now I'm thinking I totally need to retink the first 30 pages, so it will be a rather big rewrite.  

I read this and had no idea there were spaces everywhere.

I noticed the CAPPED words he suggested are mostly sounds, shadows, props, POV of the Pet-Cam.

He doesn't seem to like Mini Slugs at all which I find interesting.
When you get time can you enlighten us on this cause I thought they were perfectly acceptable.

Most horror movie scripts I read start with something horrifying even if in prologue. I actually liked the creepiness of your opening scene and thought it was great. From the feedback he gave you however, it seems an opening scene detailing what happened to the previous residents (probably with some gruesome flashes) might be the way to go, and then segue to the backstory of 'why the BNB' for Joan and Ron.

This is a pretty ghastly visual:
An empty room with walls covered with whimsical wallpaper
spattered with old dried blood...
I'd discover more gruesome stuff too.

Bear in mind I've read the feedback so I'm influenced by what he's said (and easy for me to say) but I think it amounts to making this more overt Horror than Thriller.

I also think Joan's too successful.

Maybe Ron lost his job and Joan's Agent dropped her and didn't renew her contract.

I've read a few stories where people buy stigmatised houses cause they're cheap. Buyer beware. These two are fine with that cause they don't believe in ghosts or hauntings. Or maybe one of them is reluctant and doesn't like the idea but some situation means because of money they have no choice. This is all they can afford.

I'm not telling you anything you don't know probably but that's where I'd start with a rewrite.

Thanks for sharing these notes. Having read the script and offered my own two cents, I was curious to see what, if anything, he agreed with me on. I see he mentioned your title device as being underutilized. And that your protagonist should either settle at being a writer or a BNB rehabber, just not both. I saw it the same. Other than that, I just saw notes like a script editor. Many of which I don't agree with. I've seen every sacred rule of screenwriting broken in pro scripts.

I think Mini slugs should be double spaced. They're slugs. His example on page 13 is a contradiction. KITCHEN mini slug is double spaced and he said it needs fixed. Then put an INT. in front of it. Final draft will automatically double space it again. Again, I think this, and the caps and the italics are all trivial.

You definitely have an original concept in here. Hopefully one more rewrite will get you closer to where you need to be, but remember, all these pros and consultants can never tell what makes a good film. If so, Hollywood would never miss, and they do all the time. And so many scripts that would never get a 7 or 8 on the blacklist or place in a contest have made great films. If you believe in your story and your vision you just have to roll with it. Try putting together a look book or pitch deck for this film and see if you can get some interest in it. Any producer you would bring in will have their own notes for a rewrite.

And I've used Carson Reeves twice on scripts. I caught him on Superdeals for $200. He gives them out when he's slow on consults. I would never pay full price, but I'm not saying it's not worth it. Most insightful notes I've received on any scripts before. If you ever want to see them let me know. I'd be happy to share.

James

Pia,

I sifted through the script notes you got and agree, from what I remember, that you need to get the action started earlier in this one. It’s been a while since I read this so I won’t go on, but the constant notes on spacing and his dislike for mini slugs were a bit much.  Funny, but I space my minis the same way, as it’s basically a transition to a different location (scene) though it occurs in the same place, but, say, a different room. I’ve done a numbered draft on a feature once for a producer, and it’s my understanding that by spacing your minis that way your software will number them. Don’t know if either of us are overthinking this since, initially, you’re writing this to be read and not filmed. But anyway…

I hope the video was helpful as his page by page notes seemed sparse at best.

Steve

Quoted from LC I read this and had no idea there were spaces everywhere. I noticed the CAPPED words he suggested are mostly sounds, shadows, props, POV of the Pet-Cam.

He said, and remember he works in production, that they like to see things in CAPS if it’s anything worth paying extra attention to. I doubt I will start doing it more than I have. I use them, but sparingly.

Quoted from LC He doesn't seem to like Mini Slugs at all which I find interesting. When you get time can you enlighten us on this cause I thought they were perfectly acceptable.

He told me that anytime you have to move the lights to a new set-up/location to use full slugs. I told him that we as writers are kind of told that at this level we are basically writing for readers and should write in a way that makes the easiest fastest read. I honestly don’t remember the exact answer, but I have the recording, so I will go over it again when I tackle the rewrite, which could be a while since I’m working on KC.

Quoted from LC Most horror movie scripts I read start with something horrifying even if in prologue. I actually liked the creepiness of your opening scene and thought it was great. From the feedback he gave you however, it seems an opening scene detailing what happened to the previous residents (probably with some gruesome flashes) might be the way to go, and then segue to the backstory of 'why the BNB' for Joan and Ron.

There are a lot of things I need to change. I need to rethink the whole beginning, but he didn’t have a problem with how it started, more like by the end of  ACT he still didn’t know exactly what this story was about. What it was trying to be.

Quoted from LC This is a pretty ghastly visual: An empty room with walls covered with whimsical wallpaper spattered with old dried blood... I'd discover more gruesome stuff too. Bear in mind I've read the feedback so I'm influenced by what he's said (and easy for me to say) but I think it amounts to making this more overt Horror than Thriller.

Yes, but since the house has been empty for 18 years, I think it would have to be stuff that’s not easy to remove, such as material things. I’d welcome suggestions though.  

Quoted from LC I also think Joan's too successful. Maybe Ron lost his job and Joan's Agent dropped her and didn't renew her contract. I've read a few stories where people buy stigmatised houses cause they're cheap. Buyer beware. These two are fine with that cause they don't believe in ghosts or hauntings. Or maybe one of them is reluctant and doesn't like the idea but some situation means because of money they have no choice. This is all they can afford. I'm not telling you anything you don't know probably but that's where I'd start with a rewrite.

I know I have a lot of things to rework. Buying the house with the idea of turning it into a haunted BnB (not AirBnB) is something all readers have pretty much liked.

As always, thank you for your input.

Quoted from jwent6688 Thanks for sharing these notes. Having read the script and offered my own two cents, I was curious to see what, if anything, he agreed with me on. I see he mentioned your title device as being underutilized. And that your protagonist should either settle at being a writer or a BNB rehabber, just not both. I saw it the same. Other than that, I just saw notes like a script editor. Many of which I don't agree with. I've seen every sacred rule of screenwriting broken in pro scripts.

Yes, but we also went through the script verbally during a near two hour long video call. That was something I really valued, because so many times we get feedback and especially with coverage, but we have no chance of discussing these things or ask follow up questions.

In regards to the title and such, I agree with you, I’ve just had a really hard time figuring out how to add more of the pet-cam videos without having a character stop what they are doing and watch a video on some screen, because that doesn’t work on film. We discussed options for that too, but if you have any suggestion, I’m definitely open for suggestions.  

Quoted from jwent6688 I think Mini slugs should be double spaced. They're slugs. His example on page 13 is a contradiction. KITCHEN mini slug is double spaced and he said it needs fixed. Then put an INT. in front of it. Final draft will automatically double space it again. Again, I think this, and the caps and the italics are all trivial.

I agree, and I doubt I will change how I write. I just thought it might be interesting to see for some.

Quoted from jwent6688 You definitely have an original concept in here. Hopefully one more rewrite will get you closer to where you need to be, but remember, all these pros and consultants can never tell what makes a good film. If so, Hollywood would never miss, and they do all the time. And so many scripts that would never get a 7 or 8 on the blacklist or place in a contest have made great films. If you believe in your story and your vision you just have to roll with it. Try putting together a look book or pitch deck for this film and see if you can get some interest in it. Any producer you would bring in will have their own notes for a rewrite.

Yes, I mostly decided this was worth a shot since I need the script to be the best it can be if I’m going to attempt shooting it, but I’m not sure that will happen. Regardless, I want to have a script I’m happy with and feel I can show people with a little bit of pride. This is really the first script I’ve attempted to do the rewrites myself. I did with The Hit, but that was for a production company, so I basically just did what they told me.

Quoted from jwent6688 And I've used Carson Reeves twice on scripts. I caught him on Superdeals for $200. He gives them out when he's slow on consults. I would never pay full price, but I'm not saying it's not worth it. Most insightful notes I've received on any scripts before. If you ever want to see them let me know. I'd be happy to share. James

I have used Carson as well. I caught a sale for $199 too, but didn’t really find it that useful. Not that there was anything wrong with the notes, but but I really really liked the video consultation with Charles Vignola. It was incredibly helpful to go over the script and discuss things and do some brainstorming too. He also said to keep contact and that I could email him any time and to keep him updated on how things work out.

I appreciate you reading and feel free to send me anything if you want my simple eyes on anything.  

Quoted from SAC I sifted through the script notes you got and agree, from what I remember, that you need to get the action started earlier in this one. It’s been a while since I read this so I won’t go on, but the constant notes on spacing and his dislike for mini slugs were a bit much.  Funny, but I space my minis the same way, as it’s basically a transition to a different location (scene) though it occurs in the same place, but, say, a different room. I’ve done a numbered draft on a feature once for a producer, and it’s my understanding that by spacing your minis that way your software will number them. Don’t know if either of us are overthinking this since, initially, you’re writing this to be read and not filmed. But anyway… I hope the video was helpful as his page by page notes seemed sparse at best. Steve

Yes, the slow beginning has been a BIG issue with every reader. To be honest, Dena still hasn’t been able to finish it. I personally liked it, but I know I’m alone in this. I just need to come up with a completely different way of kicking this one off. It needs a re-write throughout as well, but I believe in the premise, so I will do this!

On the formatting stuff, see above. I definitely need to go over the video and listen to exactly what his answer to me was when I said we write for readers, not prod-cos.

Thanks for chiming in Steve!  

Thanks again everyone and I’ll keep this updated whenever there are any news that could be useful for other writers or of interest.  

[quote=me]


On the formatting stuff, see above. I definitely need to go over the video and listen to exactly what his answer to me was when I said we write for readers, not prod-cos.

I've been meaning to comment on this.  Maybe I'm naive and this is the current method of script critique, but I thought the red marker writings all over the script were dated, off the mark and frankly a little obnoxious. (Again JMO)

I have worked with magazine editors previously who nit-picked over my work, but I was never returned a manuscript with red marker comments over virtually everything.  As to the above quote, my thoughts exactly.  He seemed to get all hung up on an extra space between a slug and a dialogue line or whatever and big red circles around a simple typo (OMG! How could you?) and basically made no comment about the quality of the story (excellent IMO).  Maybe this is what you asked for - ? Or maybe this is just the way its done and I need to get up to speed.  I do hope his video chat with you was more insightful and served to give you some good pointers for improvements - or at least something to think on.

You are a prolific writer and I've said before how much I admire your work - this one is no exception.  Looking forward to its production  

Hey Kathy, thanks for chiming in.

First off, this is not in production. Just wanted to make that clear.  

The red mark stuff, I didn't take that as editor work. I think it was something he did while reading. Something that stood out to him and things for us to discuss during the video call. Maybe he was nitpicking as well? He told me my script had a lot less red in it than most scripts he goes through. He was a nice guy who's been in the industry for decades and has worked on some major films over the years. I have to assume he knows what he's talking about. And, we absolutely went over the story itself during our talk. I would definitely seek out his help again if it was cheaper and/or I need help with something I take really really seriously... or I was rich.

Anyway, it was worth the experience. So many people out there offering their services when they don't really have any experience at all other than reading scripts. I've done that too. Maybe even a thousand over the years, but I would never pretend I'm some sort of expert that will charge anyone for a read. I'm free.