MAY CONTAIN MINOR SPOILERS

Alright, alright... I've been watching this thread for some time, not responding until the one guy who hated it made his post.  If you didn't like it, that's fine.  That's your opinion, and I am not going to change it.  But, the one problem I have is you calling Sam Raimi a "basic" director.  Raimi may be one of the most original directors I have seen in some time... at least since Tim Burton (not to create a "Batman" connection or anything).  

The scene with Ock's surgery (as previously mentioned by another poster) had a very, very distinct "Evil Dead" overtone, and not just because of the chainsaw.  As for the train fight... easily the greatest super-hero on super-villain action I have ever seen put on film.  When Parker's lifeless body was being passed back into the train, quite a few theater patrons began to giggle... not me.  Actually, I may have cried (God, I hope not).  

As for Aunt May's character development... fantastic!  Her being rescued by Spider-Man (specifcally her "For shame!" line as she smacked Ock in the head) had me on my feet, applauding (literally... it was a midnight showing, so I wasn't alone ).  Her speech towards the middle had me tearing (again) while also giving the theater goer (at least me anyway) the feeling that she just may know more about her nephew than Peter seems to think.

As for Harry's development... wonderful!  Those who know the books know he becomes Green Goblin (and NOT Hobgoblin, as some seem to think), yet, still, I thought his stumbling upon his father's secret was brilliantly filmed (and the un-expected cameo by Willem Dafoe certainly helped).

Finally, with Dock Ock, I found that Alfred Molina did a fantastic job.  Did he wear his trademark, green power suit?  No... but how ridiculous would that be?  Granted, it is a comic book movie, but still.  After all, you have to remember that Octavius was pretty much homeless.  And, while the trechcoat certainly worked for me, I have to say, I thought he looked the coolest with the torn hospital gown on (and the blind fold was just cool).

To me, I would have to say that my top three favorite comic book films would have to be (this coming from somebody whom has a 1,000+ comic book collection):

1.) "Spider-Man 2"
2.) "Hellboy"
3.) "Ghost World"

The "Batman" films (the first two anyway) are not included simply because, to me, they suffer from "Dune" syndrom.  They're good films, just not good Batman films (another good example is "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within": a good film, just not a good "Final Fantasy" film).

The worst three:

1.) "Batman & Robin" (baltis, you have to agree with me there)
2.) "Superman IV" (good lord, Superman Vs. the lead singer of a hair band)
3.) "Daredevil" (just see my review from last year)

To everyone, please post your own lists for best and worst comic films.

I disagree with almost everything you had to say.

I can see your a die hard SPIDERMAN fan and you are the guy that can pick out the hidden easter eggs within, that's cool... for you.

Let me tell you somthing. I don't follow comic books. I don't really like them. I've never read and entire Spiderman comic even. The funny thing is though, I know what's right. What's wrong and what's not needed.

I spotted Stan LEE in both films.
I see the ties to the 1964 comic where the 1st in comic death took place, in a spiderman book to boot.

You know why I know this stuff... ? Cause I'm well cultured. You can not pull the wool over my eyes.

You liked the movie, I hated it and with good reason. I think RAIMI's best work is behind him... to bad it's gonna be the 1st Evil Dead. I simply do not like him much. I respect his vision and his honest work, but he's clearly not a great.

I know of his legion of diehard fans... but they are a few small and in between VERMILION to me.

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You say it would have looked stupid to have DOC. O look like he does in the comic????? I don't understand this. That's the way he was intended to look, STAN LEE made him that way for a reason. Why **** it up?

You make little to no sense. You like SPIDERMAN and his universe... but you don't like the way the characters are ment to look... so you opt to change them. Alright there pal.

I'm sure you also agree with the race change of all these characters too, right? Do you think the SCARECROW was a black man? Do you? Do you really think that KINGPIN was black too? What about CATWOMAN? Don't give me after her death, that's a technical issue that went to the birds, real quick.

You also probably liked that the xmen look nothing like the xmen, don't you? I'm thru talking to you.

I'm not trying to change your opinion, but your views are really vauge. You make no sense and you back up your rebutles to me, with... yup! you guessed it, more praise to the scense I just destroyed and broke down to nothingness. Why?

You went and explained everything you said in your 1st post... Leave it at that. You added not one new thing to this topic, but a list of movies "YOU" think are the best. Whatever dude.

Spiderman 2 was flawed and it fell in line to being one of the worst comic book adaptations ever! Ever!

My opinion, but hey... you asked for it when you started this thread.  

Am I a die-hard comic book fan?  Yes.  Am I a die-hard movie fan?  Yes.  Do the two always co-exist?  No... hardly ever.  So, I understand why things are changed.  Wolverine in yellow tights?  Illustrated on paper: awesome!  Put on film: terrible.  So, I recognize when things need to be changed.  Am I "well cultured?"

Pfft.

No.  I am just realistic (and a total film/comic geek), and I know what will and will not work.  For proof of this, just take a look at the shelved "Fantastic Four" film.  The creators (of the film) decided to make the costumes the same color as the comic, a bright blue.  This, unfortunatly, makes the actors look like they are wearing halloween costumes.  Something as simple as a darker, different shade of blue would have helped tremendously (as seen in the Spider-Man films).

As for the race issue?  No, doesn't really bother me.  Michael Clarke Duncan wasn't good as Kingpin not because he was black, but because he just did not play the Kingpin as well as I would have hoped.  As for Halle Berry as "Catwoman?"  Jesus, I know a mistake when I see one, and I do not even consider this a comic-book film anymore (not just because of the character changes, but also because of the costume... Jesus Christ...).  

And what did you mean referring to Scarecrow as black?

Now, you seem to think that I am saying the only reason you did not like the film was because you never read the comics (perhaps I am wrong).  This is not what I meant at all.  As a matter of fact, this was obviously a very big hit... and I highly doubt that everyone that liked this ever even opened a comic book, let alone a Spider-Man one.

Raimi fans few and far between?  Certianly a cult icon, but that didn't seem to stop half the theater I attended (at all three screenings I attended... lonely soul, I know) to come out of the theater either laughing it up over Bruce Campbell's cameo or even the way a lot of people tended to come out saying, "Dude, that surgery scene was right out of 'Evil Dead.'"  And, whether these leagions of "Spider-Man" (the movie) fans know it or not, they are now Raimi fans.  Few and far between?  I doubt that.

Finally, do not bring up the comment about "leave your first post alone, and do not add anything else."  If I left your post alone, and instead, only made a second post to agree with everyone whom enjoyed "Spider-Man 2," would that be wrong?  No, so let me defend my claim (hence, the purpose of message boards).

MORGAN FREEMAN is playing SCARECROW in the new batman movie... is that a stretch of the mind's 3rd eye? I think so. He wasn't black! I hate this! I hate this not cause of the actual black actor or actress, but because the characters they are playing are not BLACK! It gives everyone a redirection in mental comunication breakdown. I don't understand where this is normal.

Anyway, yes... you liked SPIDERMAN 1 & 2, cool! I didn't. I thought the movie was slow at times, cheeseball at others, and down and out boarder line retarded in the rest.

I thought the "SO CALLED" operation scene was crap! That is not how I would have invisioned the whole thing coming about and to be fused together with these arms... C'mon!  Also, how in the hell did he turn good at the end? How?

The biggest plot hole in the movie...

As long as he had that chip on his neck "HE WOULD CONTROLL THE ARMS, RATHER THEM CONTROLLING HIM" alright, RAIMI and the screenwriter... dig you way out of this one. The CHIP was destroyed. They would have complete controll over him, there was no going back, but not in RAIMI's eyes. He went against the moral of his own story. LOL!

GREAT DIRECTOR? PFFF! He couldn't even keep his movie together. Do you see that there was no way for him to go back to his former self, given what you know about the chip in his neck. It would be impossable.

This movie was loaded to the helm with things like this. also, BRUCE's small part wasn't even funny. It was rather dictated and forced. Very by the book and predictable. The slap stick 3 stooges moment, just didn't fly with me.

Also, since when did HARRY's dad have time to construct this room? When? Only 1 of them hoverboard things was in existance to boot. Also the mask and all the bombs? No I'm not buying any of it. HARRY walks into a seceret room with all this high tech gadgetory and rare multi million dollar stuff, that the government wouldn't even fund. Yeah, right!

I now know why the first spiderman was so weak... GREEN GOBLIN was spending all his time in that damn room, making muliple pumpkin bombs and hoverboards, not to mention new GREENGOBLIN suits. Why would he need abother one? Where did he get the mask from? Was that a U.S. GOVERNMENT requirement?

Do you see how stupid this movie really is? Do you see how many plot holes are in this pile of ****? SPIDERMAN 1 & 2 are very shallow movies with no fundamental backings at all whatsoever.

Thanks you's and good bye.

Balt.

Dude, stop posting on this thread. If you didn't like the movie, why the fuck are you making such long posts about it? No one is going to change their opinion just because you didn't like either of the movies. How can you call the movies cheeseball? Look at the source! The dialogue is horrible in the old comics and that's why it's cheesy in the movie, because it's faithful to the comic book.

"MORGAN FREEMAN is playing SCARECROW in the new batman movie... is that a stretch of the mind's 3rd eye? I think so. He wasn't black! I hate this! I hate this not cause of the actual black actor or actress, but because the characters they are playing are not BLACK! It gives everyone a redirection in mental comunication breakdown. I don't understand."

Hmm... too bad you're wrong.  Morgan Freeman is playing Lucius Fox, Bruce Wayne's millionaire friend.  Cillian Murphy (a white man, he played Jim in "28 days later...") is playing Jonathan Crane, aka Scarecrow.  For a picture of Bale as the Bat pinning Murphy as Crane against an unseen structure, follow this link:

http://www.themoviebox.net/php.....from=&ucat=&

Yes, my bad on the above. I heard one thing and then another... that is very good news... however... I think the new batman is gonna suck beyond belief. A batmobile with monster truck tires... lol!

Also, where is this guy coming from? SCARECROW wasn't until way way way later in the batman universe.

Also, FOX wasn't a black man either. So either way they still screwed this up.

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Also, my points are valid on spiderman... the plot holes are there, you all are just to die hard spidy fans to wanna see them.

Fox is a black man.  Just see this link:

http://www.geocities.com/area51/shadowlands/4733/LUCIUS-FOX.htm

As for "Batman Begins"... well, there is just no pleasing you is there?  The tank-like vehicle?  Straight out of "The Dark Knight Returns."  Simply put, I cannot wait.  I really dig the idea of the majority of the film revolving around Bruce Wayne, and not his alter-ego (I.e.: the costume coming from a prototype milatary suit created by Wayne Enterprises, as well as the vehicle).

As for Scarecrow coming too early, for somebody who digs the early, Burton Batman films, you certainly are being picky.  Was Joker an early villian?  No.  Was Joker's name "Jack Napier."  No, it was just never decided.  Though, it is for these same continuity errors that I think I enjoy "Batman Returns" the most (Michelle Pfeifer as Catwoman was great [as well as her origin] and you can never go wrong with Christopher Walken... except for "Gigli").

Finally, back to "Spider-Man," is there continutity errors?  God yes!  But just look at the books.  "Dead" super-villains would come and go over and over without any explanation.  Same with any comic.  Still, I do not think Ock over-coming his tentacles despite the broken chip called for some kind of super leap of logic.  He had to fight the tentacles to force them to let go of Parker's neck.  

Perhaps he could have fought them the entire time... he just chose not to.  He was just so bent on finishing his life work (not to mention the greiving of his dead wife) to even consider ignoring the super smart monstrosities attached to his body.  Just look at the early scene where Ock, wearing tattered green robes, stands over the edge of the dock, spouting out a monologue all about how his "monstrous tentacles belonged at the bottom of the river."  He even realized the chip was broken... perhaps that helped to feed his feelings that it was worthless to fight the tentacles anyway... it was pointless.

Not to get too deep (too late), but sometimes you have to look beyond the surface to see the better film.

I've tried that... but I'm still not buying any of it. RAIMI was said to be a huge spiderman fan and it is not showing within his movies. I think that they are to to to over the top and try to send you on a roller coaster between funny and dark. It doesn't work.

RAIMI dropped the ball and it's time to pass it to someone else on the next go around. I think he's done all he can with the franchise and it's going nowhere. He's advanced the plot way beyond where it should be. If he wanted things to pick up and go... then he should have started it later in PARKERS life and not a kid.

VENOM and CARNAGe are set for the next film along with the new GOBLIN -- to many villians prooved to kill BATMAN & ROBIN, it'll kill this too. Only VENOM & CARNAGE are way way way way way way later in the SPIDERMAN universe. WTF is he thinking?

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Also... The screenwritter and RAIMI are two different people. RAIMI just directed this movie, he did not write either of them. For all intense and purposes... RAIMI is just the guy showing us the pictures of another guys idea.

Whether or not you liked Spiderman, Baltis, what'd you think of The Gift, A Simple Plan, Darkman, Crimewave, For Love of the Game, the Evil Dead trilogy, and The Quick and the Dead?

I personally consider Raimi to be far from a basic director.  Have you seen these other films, and if so, what'd you think of them?

A simple plan was great... but it was also a book. Anyone could have stepped into the chair and made this movie, as long as they followed the book.

The gift was shallow.

Darkman was laughable. Cool, but laughable. The acting was terible and the plot was a little bit to much.

The evil dead trilogy is 95% ****! Evil Dead is the only one that did anything for it's self shadowing. The other 2 were mere hack jobs.

Quick and the dead was appauling. It wasn't a good western. Action flick. Anything. Q&TD was flat out crap!

Crime wave and for love of the game were two movies I didn't care to even see... They did not appeal to me or my taste.

RAIMI is a very basic director in my eyes. He falls back on proven work and good screenplays to get himself by. Look at a movie he wrote himself "EVIL DEAD" "SKINNER" <<<< I think so anyway, not sure.  And you will see how green he still is.

My opinion only.

Bruce Campbell was in it?  Where?  I saw the movie on one of the hugest screens ever built, and yet I didn't notice Bruce Campbell.  Where was he?

In Spiderman 2?

He's the snooty usher.

In Spiderman 1 he's the wrestling announcer.  Give me any other Raimi stuff and I'll tell you who Bruce is in it.

Venom and Carnage in the sequel? All heresay at this point... none of it has been proven, so saying Raimi is pushing the series to a limit is not justified.  As a matter of fact, not a single thing is even known about a third entry, so most of the fans hoping for a hint of Venom in this one went on to claim that the third one will have him.  As for Carnage... both in one film would certainly be pushing it and (like "Batman and Robin") could possibly destroy the franchise... though, at least Spider-Man does not have any sidekicks... except for possibly Black Cat, though she was axed from the script of the sequel.  See:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0316654/trivia

Also, saying anybody can create a good movie from a good book (as long as it follows the novel) is strongly mistaken.  Just look at "The Road to Wellville" or (*shudder*) "Sphere."  Both followed the plot damn near exactly... and both turned out to be piles of crap.

baltis, all I can say is that I think you are too hard to please.  I mean, certain movies have to be watched in a different stage of mind.  To me, you're coming off as the snooty film (not "movie," but film) critic.

"Darkman was laughable. Cool, but laughable. The acting was terible and the plot was a little bit to much."

Alright, the acting was bad, and, yes, that can destroy a film (unless possibly intentional, much like "Starship Troopers").  But the plot was a bit too much?  What movie is not?  Your signature reads: FULCI LIVES!  While I agree with the statement tremendously (be on the look out: Special Edition of "Zombi 2" finally coming out this month), would you not say that Fulci's plotlines were a bit much?  Just a little?

Not at all... FULCI's movies were backed by the idea that this stuff is smok and mirrors. Also, he wasn't trying to please anyone. He was making out of this world horror flicks with what little he had.

FULCI is a master director and hands RAIMI his lungs in the chair any day of the week.

Most of FULCI's work is very un-noted cause he was known for way way more than horror over in italy. He was a master of everything he touched. Westerns, drama's, comedy, horror, thriller, crim drama's, and even a SOAP OPERA.

RAIMI wouldn't even be able to lace FULCI's right shoe, let alone both of them.

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I don't agree with RAIMI being a great director... he's to unproven.

Also, BRUCE was the last face you saw in DARKMAN, when he turns around on the busy street.

Someone was questioning this.. I think?