Maybe there should be script category for Crap.
Any script that reads like it was "rushed" and "not proofread" should be placed in that category and then let the writer defend his position.
If he/she can't, delete the script.
The sincere but ignorant writers who fall between the cracks, can be separated and helped.
To all other violators -- we don't need a bunch of script graffiti clogging up the site.

Moderators, naturally, will make the final decisions.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson This is getting a bit psychological here but could it be a lack of confidence? Maybe they feel that if they come out and say it’s a first draft that it will excuse their mistakes and protect their egos. In some cases, maybe it’s not their first draft but they’re so afraid of a poor review that they lay the groundwork for excusing their failure right from the start.

Psychologically, I'd have thought the opposite.  Some people think their scripts don't smell and can't imagine problems with them.

Other might also think that because we are all beginners, we're cool about mistakes and are willing to overlook them.


Phil

I've always been under the impression that a good script is a good script. The story you tell will shine above any mistakes one can make.

If the story is good. It's good... Well, not so much the structure but the actual content anyways.

I'm seeing stories from people here that are utter garbage.

"not from anyone in this thread, yet"

Stories that are so uninspired and so unoriginal that typos are the least of their problems...

I've only posted one 1st draft screenplay here and the strange thing is... It's the one that got the most attention. So, I have to agree with Alan a little bit here.

"LADY IN THE WINDOW" was written in blind fashion (just 3 days) and no other drafts followed it. I posted the script here and people really did love it. I believe even more than they loved "COFFIN CANYON"

I guess the idea of posting first drafts, depends on the writer's definition of first draft. If it means clicking 'submit' a minute after writing FADE OUT, you've got problems. Pretty much all my scripts on this site are technically first drafts, but I tend to rewrite as I go along, one step forward, three steps back. Proofreading your work is not a rewrite IMO, it's common sense.

I can understand people are eager to get their work up on the site, but my advice would be to run what I call the "dogglebe test" before submitting.

Read some of dogglebe's recent posts. The ones where he points out glaring, easily fixable errors. There are often so many errors that the draft is unreadable. The author will usually start arguing and get absolutely no comments on the story simply because he/she hasn't taken the time to proofread the script or learn the basics of formatting.

Read through your script and ask yourself "What criticism are others receiving that I could easily avoid in my script?"

In short, don't give the critics any ammunition to slam your script.

Most people learn from their mistakes. Others continue to ignore criticism and that's what really ticks me off. We're lucky to have folks like dogglebe, Balt, and others who aren't afraid to be blunt and say what they feel about a script. It's the only way people will learn.

Personally, if I open a script and there are basic errors on the first page, I'll close it immediately and find something else to read. Credit to those who take the time to read through the dross and give the writer a lesson.

Quoted from Martin Personally, if I open a script and there are basic errors on the first page, I'll close it immediately and find something else to read. Credit to those who take the time to read through the dross and give the writer a lesson.

I can't tell you how many scripts I've put down for this reason.  If there's a lot of spelling mistakes, or if the writing made no effort to format it properly, I stop reading.

I remember one script where the writer described the action in street slang.  I don't want to read:

INT.  MARY'S HOUSE.

Carl busts into Mary's shitty house and slaps the bitch on her skanky ass.


I also don't want to read abbreviated words.  I remember a script where the writer substituted u for you.  How lazy and unprofessional can you get?


Phil

Quoted from Shelton I hope people can tell the difference between a first draft that's been posted without being proofed just for the sake of getting it up, and a first draft that has been proofed, but needs feedback on what works and does not work in the story. I think there's a big difference between the two.

Mike has a point here. There are a handfull of writers here that I would read a first draft from, even if there is minute spelling/grammer mistakes because I know that even if it's a first draft, it's a well-crafted, polished first draft.

I think it's important to realize that we can post first drafts - but there is a difference between typing FADE OUT and pressing the Submit button than waiting a couple of weeks; tweaking structure, fixing spelling and polishing it off before Submitting it.

Stew

Quoted from Balt I'm seeing stories from people here that are utter garbage. Stories that are so uninspired and so unoriginal that typos are the least of their problems...

There's is a difference between garbage stories and stories that reek of typos and problems that suggest they're a first draft...However, that being said, there's probably a strong corollation between the two.
It's possible that a writer with no idea what they're doing could post a script that is brilliant story-wise, but written with no regard to style, no concern for typos and an obvious first draft.  But not likely.

Because every scripts gets posted, how can you regulate the flood of so-called first drafts?
This is an open market.  Scripts are not judged upon receipt.  There are no gatekeepers.
Writers don't have to be accountable for their work.
Or the quality of their work.
We don't see their faces.  They don't have to reveal their true names.
And there are no restrictions on how many times the same story can be posted.
So, I can see why some people write fast and send fast.  Yeah, what a rush.

There have been a lot of great points made here such as, what’s a first draft? Like Martin said, it depends. For me, I never just proofread. I’m always looking for things that need to be fixed or cut at the same time.

Usually every script I post has been reread or rewritten at least five times. I would never post a first draft personally. But I also understand that some people can write a first draft that’s near perfection. Those people, of course, would never arouse any suspicion that they submitted a first draft.

The people I’m referring to are rather obvious. In some cases, people admit that they knew errors were in their script but they posted it anyway. They just didn’t care about the readers.

Yes, Don will post anything but if a writer is serious, he’ll heed the wisdom that can be found in this thread. A serious writer knows his first goal after completing a script is to be read. The way to the most reads is first and foremost to produce a script that’s reader friendly. And why not help Don out by making sure you’ve posted your best effort and minimizing his work?

Yes, I’ve read stories that were good enough for me to overlook some spelling and grammar errors. But I’ll only overlook so many. And a serious writer needs to understand that how a story is communicated is as important as the story itself.

And Doggleby has a very valid point about the arrogance of some writers to suppose their work is so great that all misspellings should be overlooked. Writers who rush without proofreading their work or post knowing there are errors in their script have utter contempt for their readers.

All I’m asking for is a writer to post his best work that, to the best of his knowledge, does not contain errors; to not post scripts in which he knows full well there are errors.

Quoted from Abe from LA Writers don't have to be accountable for their work. Or the quality of their work.

They do if they want to be read.  If I know that you crank out a script and submit it without looking it over, I'm not going to read it.  And if enough people feel the same way, then your script is going to slide down the list into oblivion.  Eventually, you'll take the hint or you'll leave the boards.

Quoted from Abe from LA And there are no restrictions on how many times the same story can be posted. So, I can see why some people write fast and send fast.  Yeah, what a rush.

Maybe there should be.


Phil

Quoted from tomson Some of the people that keep making these mistakes that we discuss never seem to chime in, there will just be another thread, script or post from those people the next day.

So, are the offenders and repeat offenders even reading this thread?
If so, do they care?
As you say, Pia, they aren't chiming in.

It appears that any change would have to come administratively.

It may not be a case of them not caring, but that they have nothing to contribute to the thread. Those who are chiming in here are those whose first draft is worth reading because it contains minimal typos and generally good structure and well thought storylines. What these people are looking for is feedback on the story itself and what does work.

I do consent to read stuff that is not formatted properly with typos galore if the author is interested in feedback. I will overlook it, and usually only make one comment on it. I do believe that typos are a sign of laziness, but I don't think poor format is. I believe poor format is a sign of someone needing to learn what is accepted. What I look for in these scripts is the potential. Maybe there is a great idea in there that needs cultivation. Maybe a little direction is all they need (plus some instructions on formatting).

The real key to this whole discussion should be that scripts with typos don't get a lot of reads. the silliest part of this is that we're on computers. Anyone using spell check out there? Talk about easy. Hit the button and the COMPUTER looks at all your little words and tells you which ones aren't in the dictionary. I mean, the only way this would be easier is if it knew the contextual difference between angle and angel (right, Bert?).

Therefore, if you want to be read (which is the only reason you're posting really), you need to proofread. I've read where people say "I'm no good at grammar or spelling", but to this I say, "You're a freakin' writer. It is your JOB to be good at spelling at grammar (even if spell check is your friend)." If anyone should have a command of the language, it is writers since we deal in putting forth this language in what we do. We should know it so well that we know how to do it wrong when we need to (for a particular character).

As for the psychological point Breanne suggested, I'm sure that's part of why writer's chime in with apologies. It's human nature to put something out there and then be immediately humble about it. It not a way to justify the work, it's a way to make people be more positive to build someone up. Unfortunately, this isn't the industry where that works or has even the slightest effect. This industry demands people who know they have something worth reading (not God's gift to the industry, but a good read). A little ego is not only ok, but expected. However, when receiving feedback, it is equally expected that one shelf the ego and listen. Kind of a double edged sword. So, form this perspective, please stop apologizing and making excuses. To be blunt, no one cares.

I admit to posting first drafts (essentially), but I do read through the script before I post it. Some of my scripts are still what amounts to first drafts with no changes since they were posted. Most of the Fempiror episodes are this way. However, these stories are always planned before I write them and I always proofread them before I put them out there meaning that the fact that they are first drafts is invisible, which brings this to a conclusion.

If you want to post a first draft, no one will stop you. However, make this first draft one that you have read first to ensure that it is readable, there are no typos, and you didn't make some stupid errors that you would notice in someone else's script. What you need to have in feedback is not "fix your typos." That's embarrassing. What you need to want is feedback about the characters and plot so that the next draft can be better.

If you won't read your script before you post it, why would you expect anyone to read it after?

Well put, George. You’ve summed it up nicely. Thank you.

Quoted from George Willson It's human nature to put something out there and then be immediately humble about it. It not a way to justify the work, it's a way to make people be more positive to build someone up.

Not me... My stuff may not be 100% or even 80% grammar perfect, but my material is still the best horror material floating around today.

Nobody can touch my material... Nobody! NOBODY!! MUHHAAHAAHHAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH!!

(Meanwhile back at ranch reality)

I'm not humble in the least bit. I believe myself to write the best horror stuff around and I'll stick by that until I see a movie or read a script that shows and tells me otherwise.

So far................... it hasn't happened.

I'm also buff, have a huge ego and have been known to jam the guitar too...

In my opinion, posting a script with a lot of typos or posting a script with bad format (some are completely unreadable) says one thing about the writer:  He doesn't take the script seriously.  And if that's the case, I don't expect the continuation to be brilliance (though I could be wrong), and I certainly don't want to take the time to read and analyze 100 pages for someone who doesn't appear to care that much for his script.

Oh, and for those of you reading this forum to see how to get your scripts read, the answer is:  Put effort into the script, write in the correct format, and above all DO NOT USE TIMES NEW ROMAN!  USE COURIER NEW!

I think what it all boils down to is respect. I find it disrespectful to the reader when it's riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes, and crappy format. I've made mistakes in the past, but nothing that's too distracting, and they aren't rampant and were just things that slipped by me that I missed. But as I grow as a writer, I do that less and less, and am able to spot things easier. But I've read some scripts that seem like they wrote the whole thing in like ten minutes, what's the point? I think that everything deserves to be the very best possible version that you can make, otherwise there's no point in reading a sh*tty version. At least make it readable. To me it proves that they don't care, or doesn't put a good enough effort in, so I figure what's the point in putting effort into reading it? Take pride in your work, have some respect for yourself and the people you are trying to get feedback from. put some effort in making the best copy you can make, because if you can't even do that, then you're pretty much f***ed in this game. I also wonder how much effort you actually put into the story if you can't even motivate yourself to spell check it or format it correctly.