@Geezis

Good point on the male characters being poorly realized. Ronnie at least has a unique, identifiable voice. Joe was generic angry guy for no apparent reason… by far the weakest of all for me. Seth is not much better as generic weak guy… at the very least its tailored towards his dynamic with Ana.

I think you could improve Seth if he looked up to Ana more, maybe some attraction there too. The scene where Ana shows up at Seth’s apartment, could hint Seth’s girlfriend is jealous/concerned because Ana is really the center of his life. He’s naïve, reveres her at first, but as he’s dragged along and coerced throughout, he’s forced to confront what she’s really about.


@Rick

Very interesting point about Dora. We have those first scenes that Dave and Pia responded well to… Ana is envisioning the killing take place, trying to understand it, it’s sort of intimate. But then that’s really the last we hear about who Dora is for the entire script until the mother scene.

If Ana could have a moment or two where she reminisces on some detail of Dora's life. Or, maybe she listens to snippets of old podcast episodes, played in VO during moments of contemplation. Tiny insights into Dora, while keeping the podcast angle going. Although, there probably aren't that many moments of quiet contemplation in the script.

Thanks for summing up the theme and everything else so well. My brain is slow and does not pay attention to any of that as I'm watching/reading. Nor would I even understand it without that book you told me about!!

Okay, I'm writing my defense of this beautiful, masterful, slightly above average film lol. It's coming soon...

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films Ana's character creates plot, that plot reveals the theme, the theme becomes the central conflict, the central conflict proves the theme and the theme has permanent consequences for the characters. IE: The central character is obsessive (Character), her obsession leads her to getting actively involved in a murder investigation (character=plot) that investigation then creates the central theme (which is stated Blake Synder style, Theme Revealed, on page 14) by asking how far is it acceptable to push an obsession when other people will suffer, that central theme then plays out as Plot as they all start fighting and people start getting hurt, and it's how the film ends...with her friend broken by her obsession (the theme leads to conflict/plot and that creates a change in character/character circumstance).   It's crafted properly. That is the only significant difference between this an amateur stuff...but it is a significant difference.

Very well articulated and summed up...but I'm not so sure Ana really changes all that much by the end. Yes, as noted, there is that bittersweet tinged final scene when she calls Seth, it gives us, and Ana, pause for thought but for her, it's only fleeting I feel. She appears to be on the up career-wise and if her amoral gumption got her this far, I can see her continuing in that vein going forward.

In this way, albeit not as cynical, it reminded me of Nightcrawler in which Jake Gyllenhaal's character crosses the ethical line more than once. These transgressions increase in severity as the film progresses because they're achieving results. In the end he's got his own burgeoning fleet of vans on the road. He's going from strength to strength, he's a success.

It's not her that changes so much, the change is effected on poor, sad-sack, Seth. It's changed the circumstances of the characters, rather than the inner selves of the characters.

It's consistent with everything else because it's about how her obsession damages others.

From her point of view, despite feeling bad for Seth, she probably thinks it was all worth it.

It's up to the audience whether they think it is.

I thought the strong main character and strong emotional core sets this script apart from the average studio genre film.

Ana’s Character

She’s inquisitive, driven, brash, sarcastic, unapologetic, has poor manners in general, in denial, reckless, dismissive, etc.

Not the deepest, most complex character ever. But we have some personality traits so that's a good start. I found her to be entirely engaging. At times, I even felt bad for her. And I absolutely cared what happened to her.

I’d compare her somewhat to Charlize Theron’s character in Young Adult. They’re both “unlikable” characters with strong drive. And they're both constantly challenged on the absurdity inherent in that insane drive.

In Young Adult, the main character returns to her home town to seduce a married man she hasn't talked to since high school. The obstacles seem insurmountable, she’s constantly challenged on the absurdity of the whole thing, yet her resolve is steadfast, even comical at times.

Here we have a young girl traveling to backwoods West Virginia, to a town where everyone despises her, while someone is trying to scare/kill her, to solve a case everyone wants buried.. and she can't even drive a car.

She's reduced to begging/cajoling her partner to drive her around to solve a murder.

You have to feel for these people on some level... at least I do.

Getting back to Ana, she's also genuinely funny, imo.

Quoted Text RENTAL CAR AGENT Alrighty Ms. Cohen. Just need to see your drivers license. ANA Welp, you called my bluff. Seth?

Quoted Text SETH (choking) Jesus it smells like somebody died in here. ANA Oh my god, how great would that be for the podcast?

Quoted Text SETH Jesus. My neck. Ana yells from the bathroom. ANA (O.S.) What’s wrong? Did somebody murder you, Seth?

Nothing, not even a smile??

Furthermore, going back to the theme of obsession, and how far you're willing to go at the expense of others...

It’s one thing to state the theme, have a flaw, and hit all the story beats. Not that that's easy, I wish I could do it! But to execute it at a high level where there’s a real sense of emotional turmoil... that's rarer.

Ana's constantly attacked throughout the film, first physically, then emotionally.

Death threats, creepy bums, drunk college kids, dead possums...

Then, more importantly, Ronnie forcing her at gunpoint to say out loud the things she’s been trying to ignore/avoid the whole movie.

Followed by the great scene with Dora's mother, where the grieving woman accuses Ana of killing her daughter over and over again. Leaving Ana shaken for the first time.

Culminating in Seth's injury where she can no longer hide from the damage she's caused others.

When you have a relatively fast-paced genre film, sometimes there's no characterization at all. Even if there is, there's never really that sense of inner conflict... events happen... maybe there's a realization at the end... but they're not really put through the ringer, emotionally.

I don’t think a female lead, or podcasts, or tweets, are the reason this sold. That's the starting point. Studios want those things. And there are a million amateur writers like us writing them.

The question is why did this particular trendy, female lead script sell?

For me, it's because it has an engaging, fully-realized main character and a strong emotional spine.

Yes, ultimately you are correct, Mark.

They bought it because they really liked it, like you did.


This was, in their opinion, one of the better scripts that they came across, that fit their purposes.

I also wasn't a fan of Ana. Just thought she was a jerk. I lost complete interest in her when she dissed her award...gave it to Seth, not cus he also deserved it, but because she didn't want it. Bitch. Lol.

As for the other characters...to me the townspeople were the most interesting. Definitely had a Twin Peaks kinda vibe, except we didn't learn much about Dora as a person...in Twin Peaks, Laura Palmer was a well-rounded character, even though she was dead. I think making us care about Dora is important...and making us understand why Ana chose this particular murder to focus on. Why this one? Why Dora?

I did like what happened with Cory. He's the only character I gave a shit about.

Quoted from mmmarnie I also wasn't a fan of Ana. Just thought she was a jerk. I lost complete interest in her when she dissed her award...gave it to Seth, not cus he also deserved it, but because she didn't want it. Bitch. Lol.

Haha, really? Out of all the dislikeable things Ana does or says I found this one of her more admirable moments. It showed her ambition and how she's has set her sights on bigger things. Love her or hate her, this drive and diligence is borne out during the script.

Quoted from mmmarnie I also wasn't a fan of Ana. Just thought she was a jerk. I lost complete interest in her when she dissed her award...gave it to Seth, not cus he also deserved it, but because she didn't want it. Bitch. Lol. As for the other characters...to me the townspeople were the most interesting. Definitely had a Twin Peaks kinda vibe, except we didn't learn much about Dora as a person...in Twin Peaks, Laura Palmer was a well-rounded character, even though she was dead. I think making us care about Dora is important...and making us understand why Ana chose this particular murder to focus on. Why this one? Why Dora? I did like what happened with Cory. He's the only character I gave a shit about.

Agreed. It seems very odd that she's willing to risk so much for a case that has nothing to do with her. Why this one? What's the connection? Normally it would be a relative or a friend, or something similar had happened to her...maybe she'd escaped the same killer.

Without anything at all, it makes it hard to believe Ana is anything other than a plot device....the writer needed an obsessive woman for the story, so he wrote one. There was no point at which I thought she was making realistic, human choices.

Good points regarding a prior history. One thing that I hated was that dead cat story when she goes on the date. It could be a friend/sister who died in a suspicious fire... and she never found out what really happened and it's haunted her.

But there's also obsession just for the sake of it, for the "high". Like in Zodiac Killer, a cartoonist with no connection to the murders loses his family over his obsession with solving the case.

I may be reading into things, but I feel the author is trying to have us doubt whether Ana really does even care about this particular case at all. Is it all about the chase, or worse yet, greed/hubris. People in the town certainly think she doesn't care. She's a parasite taking advantage of a tragedy.

Ana shrugs off all these claims for the longest time. Confident she's doing the right thing. Until, finally, she's confronted with a horribly injured Seth in the hospital.

That's where things honestly get a bit confusing for me, in terms of theme. They have this exchange...

Quoted Text ANA No. You were right all along. I can’t let anyone else get hurt. I can’t be re-- SETH You are responsible! And for once, you are going to fucking listen to me. Ana wipes the tears away from her eyes. ANA OK, Seth. OK. I’m listening. SETH You’re going to finish what you started. You’re going to make this matter.

So she does kind of have a realization? But then she goes on with the case anyways. Ending with her being unable to resist the draw of a new case. Then calling poor Seth, who ignores her.

I guess in the end, nothing that happens the entire movie ever really changes her mind. For her, there is no limit to what one should do to find the truth. That's all that matters.

Reading that quote from the script made me think, rightly or wrongly, of the exchange between Dr Rumack and Ted Striker from Airplane!

"The last thing he said to me, "Doc," he said, "some time when the crew is up against it, and the breaks are beating the boys, tell them to get out there and give it all they got and win just one for the Zipper. I don't know where I'll be then, Doc," he said, "but I won't smell too good, that's for sure".

I felt it was a tad contrived considering what Ana had put Seth through. Either that or he just grew a set of berries and wanted her out of his sight/company/life.

I think ratings are the only thing that matters to her. In the middle of everything she keeps calling the Netflix guy. There’s no doubt she wants to get to the bottom of all this because bigger things lie ahead for her.

True there was no compelling backstory to propel her forward in all this. She’s already fully formed pretty much when we meet her. But that leads me to believe, as this is open ended, is the writer waiting to give us more in part 2?

I'm with Marnie about the characters. I really really disliked Ana. There wasn't anything about her that I liked and that's kind of why I wanted to do this SC. Why would a studio buy a script with such an unlikable character that doesn't even seem to change at all or even realize what a total bitch she is? How does the studio figure it will go over with an audience? Especially with such a cold ending. I agree that in a way it's very similar to Nightcrawler and that one did well, so who knows. Having said that, I don't want them to change the ending either because they'll probably screw that up as well.

I too cared about Cory and I was more interested in the people that lived in town.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Why would a studio buy a script with such an unlikable character that doesn't even seem to change at all or even realize what a total bitch she is? How does the studio figure it will go over with an audience?

That is true. Its surprising a studio would buy a script with an unlikeable lead but I'm glad they did. It shows, if anything, that they are willing to take a risk.

I do feel Ana possesses self awareness though and knows she is riling people up. I think this is what drives her to an extent, getting up in people's grill like that. Couple it with her unwavering quest to get ahead and she ends up just not giving a shit what people think of her. As a result, she appears to lack self awareness.

Sorry, I don't mean to derail the thread but just on a side note since we are talking about unlikeable protagonists (I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, I know I've banged on about it more than once) but what are people's opinions on the necessity of having a likeable protagonist, or more broadly speaking, a "hero"?

Putting commercial concerns aside, is this a requirement for you?

I don't mind a lead character being unlikeable as long as there is an attempt at least to change or grow.
Ana for me was far too self absorbed and even in the moments she appeared to soften she quickly reverted to form.

Examples I'm thinking of are Edward Norton's character in American History X. A despicable man but looking for forgiveness and redemption.