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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Western Scripts  ›  Red Sun Moderators: bert
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  Author    Red Sun  (currently 9880 views)
Electric Dreamer
Posted: November 18th, 2010, 12:29pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Angry Bear
Not sure why you would rewrite another script, but hey, maybe it's time for an update on this one. Not enough westerns are made IMO.

Okay, I read your first comment and I see it's your first script and this was just training for you. That's fine.

I also noticed there were comments in the beginning of this thread saying you introduced too many characters. I didn't feel that way at all. Is this a different draft?


Pia,

Much thanks for the read back, the effort is appreciated.
I agree, there are not enough Westerns being made.
Hopefully True Grit will be a success over the holiday season.
Yeah, there were a couple of folks early on that complained about it.
I don't see anyone else since here that had that problem.
I hope those early comments haven't thrown anyone from reading the script.
Those first couple of comments tend to make a first impression.
This is the same draft and no one else has complained about since then.


Quoted from Angry Bear

The story...well, it's good. I liked it. Don't remember seeing the film, but I guess you pretty much watched the film and wrote down what you saw. So, no complaints about the story.

The characters were fine too. I think you missed out on some of the characterization though. Like I said, I haven't seen the film, but I imagine that the characters revealed a lot more about themselves via gestures and expressions than you wrote down. Therefore the characters come off a little more flat than they probably were on screen.

Eh, no. I did not copy the movie from television.
That would be a fine exercise to strictly work on format I suppose.
However, I reworked the story from the original script.
IMO, this version is about 70% from the original film.
Almost the entire second half is original material, except for a bit of hotel dialog.
All the action scenes have been completely rewritten and many scenes removed.
New characters were created, some expanded upon, others removed.
So, I guess I should take it as a compliment that you liked the story then.
I know its difficult to compare and contrast, its a relatively hard film to find.

I didn't set out to make this my first script, it just came out that way.
I saw the film and the ideas I had to enhance the story would not go away.
So, I "exorcised" them through writing, then it became about finishing what I started.
I've read you should always finish, its unlikely you'll come back to it later.
Almost the entire second half is original material, except for a bit of hotel dialog.


Quoted from Angry Bear

Your writing was boring. I'm sorry to say. You had a good story to work with. Good characters to work with, but somehow this was a tough read. I really felt that you were just writing down what you saw on screen. There's no emotion or anything. Someone said it read almost like a novel. I would agree sort of.

Sorry this took so long btw. I've been really busy lately and have only had time to read about 10 pages/day.


I'm sorry my script bored you.
The fact that you think I simply "copied" a pro script can be taken two ways...

1) It's essentially calling me a plagiarist. That's kinda frowned upon by writers.
    Not to mention it's a tad illegal last I checked. I don't care for that implication.
2) You think my extensive reworking of this script was done by a pro and filmed.
    Therefore, the plagiarism implication, becomes an unexpected compliment.

So, I thank you for #2 and move on.
I agree I tend to write novel like, my action description is thick, I'm working on it.
I hope in time it will not get in the way of my stories so much. Thanks.


Quoted from Angry Bear

pg   1.  what is sweaty toothed?

I think you need to mention why Smirker struggles to keep his balance. Is he drunk or did the horse take off?

pg   2. not sure how old Cora is, but her second piece of dialogue doesn't work for me. It doesn't sound like a kid from the old days.

Sweaty toothed is a Walt Whitman "Leaves of Grass" reference.
It was a popular book at the time of this story. A style flourish on my part.
I can see it being a distraction to others.

Oops, I accidentally removed the line where Deke rides off, thanks.

Cora is 6 years old. I see I put "young" in there by mistake.
She says, "What's his name?" and "I'm sorry, mister."
I feel that's age appropriate, I'll change young to the actual number, thanks.


Quoted from Angry Bear

pg   3.  didn't quite get what happened there with Gault, Stone and Link. Did Gault shoot and missed and Link shot his hat off? Then Stone jumps off.  what happened to Gault? I read it three times. Maybe make that a little more clear what happened there.

Link smokes a sloppy cigarette. He hears a revolver cocked
behind him. STONE, 30s, lanky, aims his weapon at Link.
STONE
The gun belt, nice and slow, Link.
Link does not turn. He takes another puff.
LINK
When you turn bounty hunter,
Sheriff Stone?
STONE
The day after your last job in
Cheyenne.
Stone feels cold steel on the back of his neck. The ex-lawman
freezes. A black leather gloved right hand takes his gun.
The left handed gunslinger pushes Stone onto the deck.
Link turns to Stone. He exhales smoke in Stone’s face.


I thought that was fairly explicit that Link had his back to Stone, I'll review this, thanks.
Perhaps I could find a way to emphasize the "behind him" part.


Quoted from Angry Bear

pg   4.  I'm getting confused by the characters now. Who is Goatee Bandit. I thought the man in the window with the goatee was Ellis? I think to keep the reading easier in keeping all the characters separated, you need to call them by name only. I don't have a problem with you mentioning that Stone is a sheriff or a bounty hunter and Ellis is a bandit, but when you refer to them in the script you should call them by their names, Stone, Ellis. Just to make it easier to follow the story for the reader. I'm sure on film it would be easier since you can see their faces.

I see your point, I did earlier call Ellis "goat bearded", I'll change that, thanks.

CONTINUED ON NEXT POST


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Electric Dreamer
Posted: November 18th, 2010, 12:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Angry Bear

pg   9.  typo...Holly "and" fire"s"

pg   10.  I think it would add to the scene if Cora is crying or something. Maybe even her mother. After all, they just watched their husband/father get murdered.

pg  18.  I don't think you need to mention that Veho is Latin for ride. Nor do you need to mention they ride west unless the suns position plays a role.

p. 9 Oops, thanks, I'll fix that.
p. 10 I agree with that, will make the change next draft, thanks.
p. 18 The sun does play a factor, which is why I included it.


Quoted from Angry Bear

By now I'm thinking that this is a very slow read. Did you watch the film and just typed in exactly what you saw? Not saying it's bad, only that that's how it reads to me. Lots of action so far, but action should read faster if done well. At least IMHO.


The action scenes are the same beats in the plot, but completely new execution.
Sniper fire, arm crushing or running through crossfires and roof hatch escapes, all new.
Yes, the story does go through a lot of action before settling down.
Yes, I agree that my action description skills are a work in progress.
I did not make it easy on myself by choreographing complex action scenes.
I will endeavor to continue to improve my description skills in the next draft. Thanks.


Quoted from Angry Bear

pg  22.  typo...he "puts" food on two...
  
pg  34.  was Link in the well? he got pissed on?...even if that was in the movie, I would probably change that. just doesn't seem cool to have our hero drenched in urine.

pg  37.  I wouldn't drink that water from the well... Was that in the movie? Yuck!

p. 22 Oh, gotcha, thanks for that catch, my bad.
p. 34 Yup, he hid in there. Well, I wouldn't say drenched, but yeah. I went there.
        Link is a bit of anti-hero and you're right, its not meant to be cool.
        That whole ranch sequence is all original material, not from the film.

Quoted from Angry Bear

Is Christina a town? Just asking since it's a normal female name, I wasn't sure if it was a town or you forgot to change a name.

pg  39.  again, I don't think you need to tell us the dialogue is in Japanese. We can pretty much guess that.

you have a lot of "MINUTES LATER" and "MOMENTS LATER".  Not sure if that's correct or not.
I'm thinking not...  You also use AFTERNOON and DUSK and things like that instead of NIGHT and DAY. Not a huge deal I suppose, but IMO it's better to describe the time of day in the following action paragraph.

Link is referring to Christina, Gault's girl. Not the name of the town.
I chose that line to foresahdow the old flame conneftion between Link and Christina.
The gold is his focus, but there's a bit of jealousy there, which he alludes to.

p. 39 I'll go along, it read fine your way. Thanks.

It's been mentioned before and I agree, I will streamline my slugs next pass.
My technical skills are a definite work in progress, thanks.


Quoted from Angry Bear

pg  44.  "never had the patience to learn people"  should that be "teach" people? Sounds better to me at least.

pg  54.  she struggles just enough to make it interesting! LOL!

pg  62.  not to be picky or anything, but I think your slug "PEPITA'S BEDROOM - MOMENTS LATER" doesn't work since the previous scene are totally different people doing something totally different. You do that a lot. Moments later, minutes later and so on. That doesn't tell the production if that scene takes place at nigh or day light.

p. 44 Link is referring to whittling wooden people here. It's not a grammar error.
        It's also intends to reveal Link's lack of personal relationships.

p. 54 Glad you liked that, its indicative of the old relationship they had.

p. 62 The previous slug says morning, but I can see how it would be confusing overall.


Quoted from Angry Bear

pg  75.  you really need to stop this MINUTES LATER stuff. I'm not saying it's totally wrong to use it, but you're misusing it. You can't go from one character doing something in one location to another scene with another character doing something completely different and say that it's minutes later. It's getting very annoying. Minutes later means what's happening in this scene is taking place minutes later than the previous one!

pg  77.  I think it's sergeant, not sargeant...

pg  85.  wrong use of MINUTES LATER again. Those are actually everywhere in this script, but I have to point this out.  Link pulls Kuroda out of the water and "minutes later"  they have a campfire going and everything.

p. 75 I'm sorry you personally find it annoying, but I'm not misusing it, Pia.    
        The scene is taking place minutes later than the previous one.
        If you're implying I can't switch characters and do that, that's news to me.
        As I said before, I plan to streamline my slugs, thanks.

p. 77 Whoops, my bad, that's easily fixed. Thanks.

p. 85 I see your point, they didn't have Quick Start then, thanks.


Quoted from Angry Bear

pg  92.  your paragraph starts by telling us "the group" rides up to a wagon. I think you need to tell us which group. Link's or Stone's. I know which one by reading on, but to paint a complete picture right away we need to know who is in the picture.

pg 106.  how do we see the cold winds separate from the hot winds?

Hope any of this can be helpful.

Pia  


p. 92 Point taken. I need to be more attentive if I want to write complex action.
p. 106 I can't find the line you are referring to here, sorry.

Thanks for all the helpful comments, I'll put them to good use in the next draft.
As to the plagiarism stuff, thanks for thinking I just copied a pro.
In its own way, I suppose it means I have something working out ok here.
Good luck with all your endeavors and thanks for your time!

Regards,
E.D.


LATEST NEWS

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is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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Angry Bear
Posted: November 18th, 2010, 12:55pm Report to Moderator
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Sometimes when commenting page by page as you read, comments can sound more harsh than intended.

I did like the script but didn't bother commenting on the story since I thought you basically had rewritten it.

I didn't say your script was boring. I said your writing was. I felt it read flat with little or no emotion.

In regards to the "MOMENTS LATER and MINUTES LATER" I still believe you are wrong. Perhaps something to discuss on the screenwriting board. IMO if character A is fixing his house in one scene and the following scene says MINUTES LATER and has character B eating in a restaurant, what on earth does MINUTES LATER have to do with the first scene? Do you want the editor to insert text telling us it happens minutes later.

Pat yourself on the back. You did well.  


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Brian M
Posted: November 19th, 2010, 4:12pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Brett,

So I've watched the film and read the script again (finally! sorry I'm late!), and I agree that about 70% of this is original. The second half of the script is almost completely different from the film, for the better in my opinion. I thought the film fell apart in the second half, right around when the Indian tribe kidnapped Christina. It felt like they were just wasting time and wanted an excuse to film another shootout. That scene had nothing to do with Gault, the gold or the sword and was just not needed. Your script is a lot more focused, in my view, because you got rid of the Indian tribe and added the Captain and the calvary, also because Stone wanted the money, too.

The absolute standout scene in the script is the shootout in the Hotel Maxine, and I'm glad it's all original. That's the point where the script does a complete U-turn from the film and goes its own way. I'm also happy that Maria is more fleshed out in the script, I loved all her scenes with Kuroda and didn't want to see her die.

Also liked the shootout at the ranch, which was also very well handled and not present in the film. I think it was James who commented on the little boy and his toy gun. I thought that part was brilliant, too.

I really liked the small changed at the start. Little Cora and her parents are introduced. I think in the film, Link and Kuroda only share a brief glance before the train boards, but your script has Cora presenting Kuroda with the wooden horse to say sorry for laughing at him. I liked that addition. Also, in the film when Gault shoots the man reaching for his gun, the bullet rips right through him and through the guy in the seat behind. In the film, it's just a random guy, but in the script, it's Cora's father. That was a very, very smart move, as you took a scene from the film with no emotional impact (I didn't know who the guy was), and made it quite moving, especially when Cora shouts "Daddy!".

Another part of the film that annoyed me. When Gault and his crew are riding away, Kuroda calls him over and asks for his name and tells him he intends to see him dead. That didn't work for me. Gault has just killed several people in cold blood, why wouldn't he just end Kuroda's life right there? I'm glad you got rid of this in the script.

Just a small change made me smile - the way Link and Gault made Stone jump from he moving train. In the movie, the just tell him to jump and he jumps, but I liked the addition of shooting his hat off and telling him he'd dropped his hat. A very small change, but it made me smile.

One or two changes didn't work as well as the film, but they were very small and hardly worth mentioning as they didn't affect the story in any way. One example, when Link meets Pepita. In the film, she sees Kuroda first, and is quite rightly scared, then Link appears behind her. In the script, she enters the room and sees Link standing by the doorway and runs into his arms. Like I said, hardly worth mentioning, but that was one of the few instances where the change didn't work any better than the original film.

While I remember, there wasn't much an ending with Pepita and Link in the script or the film. That was something I wanted to see.

I've read the comments, and I wanted to say that Link's character arc worked for me. Someone mentioned that you can see it coming, but it worked for me anyway. I also liked how Link killed Gault with the sword in the script. Much more fitting.

Anyway, it was a good film, but the changes you made definitely improved it overall, especially in the second half. I can't think of anything more to add right now, but if I do I'll come back and add. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the film, I've certainly learned a lot.

Brian
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: November 20th, 2010, 12:56pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from James McClung
How's it going, Electric?

Haven't seen the original film nor had I heard about it until I learned a studio remake and Joss Wheadon's Cabin in the Woods were getting shelved. Not sure how I feel about that but as far as Wheadon's movie goes, yippie! The world is a better place without that bullshit.

Hey James!

Much thanks for the read, I'm grateful for you giving my work your time.
A studio remake? Not sure to which you are referring to here. Red Sun? Really?
I've not heard any news about this particular property being remade by a studio.
As to Cabin in the Woods, MGM lacks the funding to properly distribute the film.
With restructuring through bankruptcy, the film is due out  I think spring 2011.
LOL are not not a Joss Whedon fan? Aww, how could you not like Dr. Horrible? =p


Quoted from James McClung

Anyway, I Wiki'd the original film. I didn't notice much difference except the end in which Link supposedly promises to bring the sword to the Ambassador. In your script, this actual happens. Is this a genuine departure from the film? If so, I think it was a good choice as there's no doubt as to Link's intentions.


Yes, you are correct. I added a scene with the Ambassador and Link at the end.
I felt it was paramount to Link's character arc to show him giving his word.
It also means that Kuroda's mission was not in vain.  Honor was restored.
Not to mention, a thief gained some personal honor for himself.


Quoted from James McClung

Moving along. This script seemed to grow on me. The opening seemed pretty standard. It was also a little confusing as they were hopping from train to train but with each new slug, I just assumed it was a different place (until I continued reading). Think the location just lent itself to that kind of confusion. Following the setup, it seemed really cliche with Link and Kuroda in the desert, especially when Kuroda reveals he speaks English. I couldn't help but think of lame Jackie Chan movies (e.g. Rush Hour, Shanghai Noon).

I'm glad that the script grew on you over time, all part of the master plan.
Funny you should mention that about Jackie Chan, James.
Shanghai Noon is very loosely based on Red Sun, mostly the first act.
Disney got away without directly admitting that's where it came from though.
There's a detailed review here that talks about the Shanghai Noon link:

http://fistfulofcult.blogspot.com/2009/09/film-red-sun-1971.html


Quoted from James McClung

I also didn't care for Link for the most part. I think when they come across Rosa, he kind of turned a corner but he was still sort of a douche and I didn't buy his arc at the end, even though I knew it was coming.

That said, I did like him better at the end. Not quite sure why. Maybe a little more charisma and not so much doucheface.

Link does some very thief/killer things early on, that is intentional.
As the story unfolds, Kuroda grows on him and in turn, influences Link.
All part of the master plan, my friend.


Quoted from James McClung

Kuroda was a better character. He teetered on stereotype at times but never quite became one. I liked his moment with the little boy and the toy gun. I think that was my favorite moment in the whole script, despite all the action, killing, etc. Was this you or the film? It was really special, I felt. I also liked the running gag with the "butter knife." It was funny but really communicated how he felt about Link at the same time. I think the guy fell to the wayside around the middle but no biggie.

Kuroda is the better man, there's no doubt about that throughout the picture.
Though Kuroda does learn to trust Link as the story goes on too.
They both drop their preconceived notions about the other and learn to work together.
The little boy and toy gun you mention are completely invented by me
The ranch scene plays out very different in the actual film.
Brian from Glasgow is the first to have seen the film and compared it to my script.
You may find his comments interesting to check out, if the mood strikes you.
Jorge and his toy gun are very special to me too, I'm proud of that beat in the story.
Thank you very much for pointing out to me how you felt about my additions there.
The butter knife gag is from the original film, but they only use it once.
I thought it would be great to keep coming back to it, as well as the nag joke.


Quoted from James McClung

The action got more and more interesting as the script went on, as did the dialogue. I'm not sure why but everything seemed to work better. Part of this, I think, is that you divided up attention to different characters around the middle. You had Link and co., the Captain, the bad guys. Just a lot more well-rounded. I think you could've used more Gault though. Then again, he was barely around at all so I don't know how his presence would've fared to begin with. Maybe it wouldn't work. I don't know. You could try it. Just saying there wasn't much of a villain in this one.

I'm glad as you went on the story worked better for you.
As the script goes on, its more original material leading up to the hotel shootout.
The hotel shootout and everything that follows is all original stuff.
I would say IMHO that about 70% of this script has been rewritten for this version.
Brian's comments above can shed more light on the subject, if you're interested.
I can also point you in the direction of where to grab this hard to find film, if you like.
I'm glad you like the return of Stone and the Captain.
In the original script, those characters never return in the second half of the film.
You are right, Gault is a somewhat absentee villain.
He is discussed much, but seen little, he's not in the second act at all.
In the end, villain duties are shared by Gault, the Captain and some Stone added.
Gault is not around as much because I see him more as an objective.
The real villain in the film is personal gain over personal honor.
The characters struggle with pride, honor, greed and ego, its not just about obstacles.
I'm not making excuses, just saying I consciously kept villains out of the second act.
I wanted the second act to focus on Link and Kuroda sorting out their partnership.


Quoted from James McClung

I think you should rename the characters at the fight at Rosa's. Every name ends with BANDIT. I'd drop it. CALVALRY HAT BANDIT could become CALVARY HAT. FAT BANDIT could become FATTIE. GREASY BANDIT could become GREASEBALL... Food for thought.

I also didn't get how Rosa knew Gault was left-handed. Do people really notice this stuff?

Anyway, good stuff, dude.


Very good point, James. I will make those changes in the next draft.
I think it will help this be a more fluid read, thanks.
LOL, I'm getting killed over the left handed thing.
Guess I'll give Gault a red bandanna or something to identify him with. =p

I'm glad you enjoyed the read.
I encourage you to check out Brian's post about the changes I did for the remake.
Thanks so much again for all your time.
I now feel compelled to check out your western, "Red Storm".
Perhaps if our scripts get produced, we could get a double bill together!

Cheers!

E.D.




LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: November 23rd, 2010, 11:16am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from khamanna
Hi Brett,

Read your Red Sun, just wondering how much of it is the movie and if the dialog and all the funny bits is yours. Reminds me very much of Shanghai Noon (or Nights - one of the two)


Hey Khamanna!

Much thanks for read back! You are good to your word, it's appreciated.
Sorry I took so long to reply to your comments.
It's funny you should mention the movie, Shanghai Noon.
That Jackie Chan film is a very loose acknowledged remake of Red Sun.
Shanghai Noon is much more of a comedy, but the first acts are pretty similar.
Instead of a Japanese culture, they went for the Chinese empire instead.
Which pretty much removes the social commentary of the original film.
Part of the subtext is that Kuroda comes from a dying culture.
Japan of the late 1800's is being slowly industrialized.
They are most interested in emulating the west than preserving their past.

Quoted from khamanna

I took some notes up to page 34 I think and then stopped (not reading but taking the notes)

p2 "Cora stops skipping" - maybe I missed something but I haven't see her start skipping.

p3 "The ex-lawman", "the left handed gunslinger" - these are all fancy descriptions for Link and it takes me time to understand who you're talking about.

p4 - "Now jump" He fires, sheriff's hat flies off "You dropped your hat" - I really, really like it. Moments like this make a movie, I think. Is that you though?

p4 Link wipes the crude sheriff's star of the dirty glass - I don't understand that.

p. 2
I see what you mean, I changed skips to cavort on p. 1 with Cora.
I will fix that in the next draft, thanks.

p. 3
Actually, the ex-lawman is Stone.
The left handed gunslinger is Gault.
I'll revisit those descriptions and try to make them a bit clearer.

p. 4
Shooting the hat off of Stone's head and "You dropped your hat" is all me. Thanks.
In the original, Link just tells Stone to jump and he jumps. Glad you liked it.

p. 4
Earlier, Ellis drew a star on the window to alert Link to Stone's presence.
Link knows their is a lawman on the train that could foil their robbery plans.
After Link gets rid of Stone, he goes to take his seat.
When he does, he wipes the star drawing off the window.
This is a silent way of Link telling Ellis that the lawman has been dealt with.
I know its a show not tell thing, perhaps I could make it a bit clearer.


Quoted from khamanna

I realize they exited the train, but don't know what for. Is that for some leisure time, for food - Cora with a bun in her hands would explain much - or maybe they changed one train for another... --maybe I missed something too.


bottom of p6 "The armed quartet keep the passengers in check. Gunfire outside punctuates the silence. The train lurches backward." --you break here

"Link Cauld and Ellis look at each other" - interesting break. It's a chain reaction - train lurches backward, they look at each other -- looks like it should go in one paragraph I think. And I spotted quite a few instances like that.

p8 I think it's too many exclamations marks in description. Reads very informal.

p8 The soldiers curse the unarmed bandit for the unwelcome gunfire. - I think that "curse someone for something" is not very visual. Id' let them curse outloud.


The train stopped so the steam engine you take on water to keep things cool.
It's a small depot station where people can get on and the train can refuel.
In the description you can see them refueling from the water tower.

Yes, I've have noticed that I could put things together in action that i did not.
I was trying to space things out since this is a very action heavy script.
I think sometimes I may have put those spaces in awkward places

p. 8
Yes, the exclamation points, I will change that in the next draft, thanks.
Again, I was trying to save space and the curse thing does read a bit awkward now.


Quoted from khamanna

p17 Cauld asks them to open up the box and Link exited the car. He didn't even tell Gauld to cut it off. Very negligent of him I'd think.

p20 "you got any horses" - is there a beat before he says that... I think we must feel the beat.

p21 - I love the dialog!

p22 "Kuroda makes his untrustworthy companion take the lead again" - what do I see here.

p22 You wrote "He food on two Bamboo Mats" - probably a typo.

p. 17
Link leaves the car before Gault goes for the box.
You are right, this is showing that Gault is a better thief than Link.
Link is more about surviving, getting in and out as fast as possible.
Gault is more comfortable killing and wants to get everything he can.

p. 20 "You got any horses?"
Yes, in my mind there is a beat there, I simply forgot to write it in.
That line is mine, most of that sequence is all original dialog.
I kept the plot beats but threw out most of the serious dialog.
I felt Link needed to be more lively in this scene and less in control.
Brian as read my script and seen the original film.
You may be interested to read his comments on this thread.
He goes through a lot of comparing and contrasting the two stories.

p. 22
When walking, Kuroda makes Link walk in front of him, does not trust Link at all.
Thanks for pointing out the typo, I will fix that next draft.


Quoted from khamanna

p34 Fat & Greasy Bandit - shouldn't be Fat Bandit and Greasy Bandit?
p34 - too many bandits for me! of all kinds apparently, hard to distinguish.

p34 bottom - You have "Miss!" - probably meant "missed".

I really liked it. It was hard for me to start it, I thought it's a real western but it's more on the comedy side. Link is not very cowboyish, he sounds like Owen Wilson all the time! And maybe that's why I liked it. It's also very funny and there are many original bits, with much texture. Like "Do people in Japan make fists" etc (sorry for paraphrasing).
Curious of how much of it is you though.

The first 8 pages were a slow read read. But it went fast once I got past them.


p. 34
Yeah, I will try to give the bandits better names in the next draft.
I don't like random death, I prefer detailed action scenes.
I just need to do it in a way that is not confusing for the reader.  Thanks

You are right this is not your standard Western at all.
It's more about personal honor in a changing world vs. the law and industry.
I did try to inject a lot of humor in what could have been an overly serious story.
I think humor makes the drama at the end all the more effective.
It's more of a rollercoaster ride for the reader that way, I hope.
I tried very hard to give the story a lot of that texture you mention.

The "fists in Japan" line is mine, not in the original movie at all.
IMO about 70% of the story was changed from the original film.
Brian has seen the movie and read my script.
He gives a detailed opinion on his thoughts about the changes.
If you are curious, you may want to give them a read.
Several people have mentioned this point, perhaps I should notify them too.
If you are super interested, I could point you to where you can find the movie too.
It's hard to find, since its not available on DVD in most countries.

Thanks so much for the read and your insightful comments.
I look forward to new work from you and keep writing!

Regards,
E.D.


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James McClung
Posted: November 23rd, 2010, 12:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Electric Dreamer
A studio remake? Not sure to which you are referring to here. Red Sun? Really? I've not heard any news about this particular property being remade by a studio.


Definitely read about it somewhere. It got paired with Cabin in the Woods as being shelved by who I now assume to be MGM.


Quoted from Electric Dreamer
LOL are not not a Joss Whedon fan? Aww, how could you not like Dr. Horrible? =p


Didn't mind Dr. Horrible and Alien: Resurrection is a guilty pleasure of mine. I think Buffy lent a hand in ruining vampires but Wheadon wasn't the only one. Really, I just absolutely hated the Cabin in the Woods script.


Quoted from Electric Dreamer


Interesting...


Quoted from Electric Dreamer
I now feel compelled to check out your western, "Red Storm".
Perhaps if our scripts get produced, we could get a double bill together!


The draft on SS is over a year old and as far as I'm concerned, unreadable. So I'd hold off on it. I've done about a dozen rewrites and think I've purged most of the script's most glaring issues. I'll be working on one more before too long. A new draft should be up soon enough.

Sounds like you did what you set out to do with this one. Think it'll be great with a few touch ups.


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Electric Dreamer
Posted: November 24th, 2010, 10:55am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from James McClung


Definitely read about it somewhere. It got paired with Cabin in the Woods as being shelved by who I now assume to be MGM.

Hey James,

Thanks for the quick reply, I must say this tidbit gave me pause for concern.
I was surprised to hear the MGM would be involved in a remake of Red Sun.
I've done my homework and know for a fact the Brothers Warner own the rights.
I think this is maybe what you were referring to, another "Red" remake...

http://www.collider.com/2010/06/16/red-dawn-cabin-woods-delayed-joss-whedon-mgm/


Quoted from James McClung

Didn't mind Dr. Horrible and Alien: Resurrection is a guilty pleasure of mine. I think Buffy lent a hand in ruining vampires but Wheadon wasn't the only one. Really, I just absolutely hated the Cabin in the Woods script.

Whedon does tend to polarize folks, they have strong feelings either way.
Love or hate him, I think he has his own voice and style which causes these reactions.
I enjoy Whedon's work most of the time.
I thought it was great he made Doc Horrible on his own during the writer's strike.
Buffy the movie and Alien Resurrection final cuts weren't really his script at all.
He is the writer of credit, also has credit on Toy Story, wonder what he contributed.
I did enjoy Buffy, Angel & Firefly on TV, Dollhouse, not so much.
I thought it was amazing he pulled off the Serenity movie after Firefly was killed.
I am pretty stoked he's getting a big budget shot with The Avengers.
I feel Whedon is good with ensemble story telling in action settings.
With that crazy amount of superheroes, you need someone with balanced story skills.


Quoted from James McClung

The draft on SS is over a year old and as far as I'm concerned, unreadable. So I'd hold off on it. I've done about a dozen rewrites and think I've purged most of the script's most glaring issues. I'll be working on one more before too long. A new draft should be up soon enough.

Sounds like you did what you set out to do with this one. Think it'll be great with a few touch ups.

Ahhh, fair enough, I'll hold off on Red Storm then.
I'll keep my eyes peeled for it.
Anything else you'd like me to take a look at, drop me a line, sir.
Thanks so much for your attention to my work, its greatly appreciated.
When I'm not knee deep in original properties, I will return to fix this draft.

Happy Thanksgiving! If you're in the colonies. =p

Regards,
E.D.


LATEST NEWS

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is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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James McClung
Posted: November 24th, 2010, 11:35am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Electric Dreamer


My mistake. Guess it's not happening after all.


Quoted from Electric Dreamer
Whedon does tend to polarize folks, they have strong feelings either way.
Love or hate him, I think he has his own voice and style which causes these reactions.
I enjoy Whedon's work most of the time.
I thought it was great he made Doc Horrible on his own during the writer's strike.
Buffy the movie and Alien Resurrection final cuts weren't really his script at all.
He is the writer of credit, also has credit on Toy Story, wonder what he contributed.
I did enjoy Buffy, Angel & Firefly on TV, Dollhouse, not so much.
I thought it was amazing he pulled off the Serenity movie after Firefly was killed.
I am pretty stoked he's getting a big budget shot with The Avengers.
I feel Whedon is good with ensemble story telling in action settings.
With that crazy amount of superheroes, you need someone with balanced story skills.


I'll have to check out his Firefly stuff (that is to say, Serenity and Firefly). Fans seem to think that stuff is his best work.

Buffy started the trend of making vampires look like they have Down's syndrome. I just can't get on that.

Honestly, I don't much care for TV and can barely watch anything that's not on cable. I think this is the biggest block for me when it comes to guys like Wheadon and J.J. Abrams.


Quoted from Electric Dreamer
Ahhh, fair enough, I'll hold off on Red Storm then.
I'll keep my eyes peeled for it.
Anything else you'd like me to take a look at, drop me a line, sir.


You can check out "Complete" if you like. It's in the Horror section and the best script I've written to date. It's not in dire need of rewriting but all my other features are so there you have it.


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Electric Dreamer
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Quoted from Brian M
Hi Brett,

So I've watched the film and read the script again (finally! sorry I'm late!), and I agree that about 70% of this is original. The second half of the script is almost completely different from the film, for the better in my opinion. I thought the film fell apart in the second half, right around when the Indian tribe kidnapped Christina. It felt like they were just wasting time and wanted an excuse to film another shootout. That scene had nothing to do with Gault, the gold or the sword and was just not needed. Your script is a lot more focused, in my view, because you got rid of the Indian tribe and added the Captain and the calvary, also because Stone wanted the money, too.

Brian,

I gotta tell ya man, you really made my week with this post.
I'm so stoked that someone had the tenacity to go through all this material.
Not only did you read my script TWICE, you compared it to the original film.
After you had to download the film and fiddle with codecs to get it to work.
These facts alone, regardless of your opinions, are truly awesome and I thank you.
I owe you a fistful of pints, mate. Anything of yours you want my eyes on, name it.

I had the same reaction to the second half of the film that you did.
I felt they took a good premise and didn't know how to finish it good and proper.
The second half left a bad taste in my mouth.
I did not plan on this being my first script, it just would not go away until I wrote it.
So I sat down, deconstructed the script and asked myself what makes this not work.
Random Indian. It's a sucky racial stereotype that has nothing to do with the story.
Ok, no Indians, well, then what are you going to do for the last 40 pages then?
I pulled an Indigo Montoya and went back to the beginning of the movie.
To my amazement it was all right there, they just never did anything with it!!!
A cavalry Captain out for revenge is much more fun than random Indian attacks.
He teams up with a pissed off bounty hunter and there's your motivation.
The Captain and Stone in the original are one offs and its a waste of characters.
I like how in the script we circle back to them after Link and Kuroda bond some.

I did rewrite the film with a "training wheels" mentality.
I started pretty close to the source material and incrementally moved away from it.
By the time I got to the third act, it was all original material.
I figured this style would help me gain confidence in my writing abilities.


Quoted from Brian M

The absolute standout scene in the script is the shootout in the Hotel Maxine, and I'm glad it's all original. That's the point where the script does a complete U-turn from the film and goes its own way. I'm also happy that Maria is more fleshed out in the script, I loved all her scenes with Kuroda and didn't want to see her die.

The hotel shootout was kinda my big middle finger to the third act of the film.
I intensely disliked the Indians and hostage trade cr*p from the original film.
At the ranch shootout, our heroes have the element of surprise on the bandits.
So, I felt doing the opposite here would help the scenes stand out from each other.
To be honest, I did not have fun writing that scene, it was a lot of work.
I had four action locations going simultaneously, mucho intercutting.
I was terrified readers would be confused by all the scenes building up.
I like the repercussions those scenes have in the story.
Too many actions scenes have no consequences to the plot. Random death, bleh.
The hotel shootout tips off the Captain and sets the final chase into motion.

I did enjoy enhancing Maria as a character, then have the innocent pay the price.
It makes her more interesting and we see a new side of Kuroda with Maria in private.
I like to think it shows Kuroda as a man in some kind of relationship back home.
I never wanted to describe his at home life, that's boring exposition.
Just show he has that ability to feel, alluding to some romance or family in Japan.


Quoted from Brian M

Also liked the shootout at the ranch, which was also very well handled and not present in the film. I think it was James who commented on the little boy and his toy gun. I thought that part was brilliant, too.

The first scene that I really felt was flat in the film was the ranch shootout.
I just didn't buy that Kuroda would be into stealing horses at this point.
He's a samurai, a man of honor. So, I had to make changes to suit "my" Kuroda.
Plus, I like the fact they argue about how to proceed in my scene, yay tension.
Link stopping his escape to disrupt the rape shows his humanity too.
The new ranch scene shows Kuroda making a mistake by killing the rapist.
Honorable samurai can make mistakes too, so Link gains a peg, Kuroda loses one.
Adding Jorge gave Kuroda the chance to redeem his actions and show some heart.
The "toy gun" idea was an on the day spontaneous inspiration.
I felt the scene needed something to keep it from being all grim.
Little Jorge gives that scene the humanity it needs to let our guys shine.
Sometimes you need character emotion arcs within scenes to keep it interesting.


Quoted from Brian M

I really liked the small changed at the start. Little Cora and her parents are introduced. I think in the film, Link and Kuroda only share a brief glance before the train boards, but your script has Cora presenting Kuroda with the wooden horse to say sorry for laughing at him. I liked that addition. Also, in the film when Gault shoots the man reaching for his gun, the bullet rips right through him and through the guy in the seat behind. In the film, it's just a random guy, but in the script, it's Cora's father. That was a very, very smart move, as you took a scene from the film with no emotional impact (I didn't know who the guy was), and made it quite moving, especially when Cora shouts "Daddy!".

Adding Cora and the little wooden horse, help humanize Link down the road.
I like introducing my main characters through the little girl.
Link uses Cora to kinda size up this wild card showing up in his robbery plans.
Link uses charm, but he has ulterior motives, lot of show don't tell there.
Taking random death and  making that Cora's father plays on Link's feelings.
Yes, he used Cora a bit, but he didn't want to see her suffer later.
It shows the slippery slope that Link in on and its the beginning of change.
Link is a thief and a survivor, he does not enjoy killing, only when necessary.
I'm glad my changes worked for you, I thought it started the story much better.
There's also the big pay off at the end when the little wooden horse returns.


Quoted from Brian M

Another part of the film that annoyed me. When Gault and his crew are riding away, Kuroda calls him over and asks for his name and tells him he intends to see him dead. That didn't work for me. Gault has just killed several people in cold blood, why wouldn't he just end Kuroda's life right there? I'm glad you got rid of this in the script.

Just a small change made me smile - the way Link and Gault made Stone jump from he moving train. In the movie, the just tell him to jump and he jumps, but I liked the addition of shooting his hat off and telling him he'd dropped his hat. A very small change, but it made me smile.

Yeah, that scene annoyed me too, Gault would blow Kuroda away right there.
I also liked Kuroda's first English line to be with Link instead of Gault.

The "You dropped your hat" line has gotten a lot of comments, yay.
I also liked bringing it back on the bridge when Stone kicks Link's hat over the side.
Even supporting villains have a moment in the sun, before they get blown to bits. =p


Quoted from Brian M

One or two changes didn't work as well as the film, but they were very small and hardly worth mentioning as they didn't affect the story in any way. One example, when Link meets Pepita. In the film, she sees Kuroda first, and is quite rightly scared, then Link appears behind her. In the script, she enters the room and sees Link standing by the doorway and runs into his arms. Like I said, hardly worth mentioning, but that was one of the few instances where the change didn't work any better than the original film.

While I remember, there wasn't much an ending with Pepita and Link in the script or the film. That was something I wanted to see.

Guilty, it was an on the day writing change for this most recent draft.
I thought it might enhance Pepita and Link's relationship, but it doesn't.
I have some ideas on how to enhance their pillow talk to that end.

In my mind, after Link leaves the train in the end, he goes back to Pepita.
He's not going to go chase lost gold across the countryside, he wants her.
Kuroda's mission changed Link and I do hope he winds up with Pepita.
But I left it open, so the reader hopes and longs for it, like I hope Link does.

Quoted from Brian M

I've read the comments, and I wanted to say that Link's character arc worked for me. Someone mentioned that you can see it coming, but it worked for me anyway. I also liked how Link killed Gault with the sword in the script. Much more fitting.

Anyway, it was a good film, but the changes you made definitely improved it overall, especially in the second half. I can't think of anything more to add right now, but if I do I'll come back and add. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the film, I've certainly learned a lot.

Brian


Yeah, my roomie suggested to me the blade gutting and its 100% spot on.
Very appropriate that Gault dies by the honorable sword in the end.

I'm thrilled my little adaptation adventure was fun and educational for you.
I live in fear that people are terminally bored with my ramblings.
Remakes and adaptations are tricky things, no doubt.
I learned truckloads too and its helping me develop my original ideas.
After having to break down Red Sun, it makes deconstructing my stuff easier to start.

Thanks a metric ton for all your efforts, you really did make my week.

Cheers!
E.D.


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Electric Dreamer
Posted: November 27th, 2010, 11:05am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Angry Bear
Sometimes when commenting page by page as you read, comments can sound more harsh than intended.

I did like the script but didn't bother commenting on the story since I thought you basically had rewritten it.

I didn't say your script was boring. I said your writing was. I felt it read flat with little or no emotion.

In regards to the "MOMENTS LATER and MINUTES LATER" I still believe you are wrong. Perhaps something to discuss on the screenwriting board. IMO if character A is fixing his house in one scene and the following scene says MINUTES LATER and has character B eating in a restaurant, what on earth does MINUTES LATER have to do with the first scene? Do you want the editor to insert text telling us it happens minutes later.

Pat yourself on the back. You did well.  


Pia,

Thanks for the return note. I appreciate the effort.
If interested, Brian has done a comparison above of the script to the original film.
God love him for the effort, he recently sat down with both and took notes.
Any notes/thoughts you have on the story would be great.
I understand though if you do not have the time to revisit the material.
I know this script is problematic as far as review goes.
It's not a well known or easily accessible film to review and compare to the script.
I didn't intend to write this, but I've tried to use it well as a training tool.
As to my writing, its a work in progress, I'm trying to improve my descriptions.
I admit there's inconsistencies with the "Moments/Minutes Later" thing.
IN the next draft, I will streamline that to avoid confusion. Thanks.
Good luck with all your endeavors!

Regards,
E.D.


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dogglebe
Posted: January 1st, 2011, 3:56pm Report to Moderator
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I wasn't planning on reading this whole script as you said it was just an exercise and a training tool.  I read about twenty pages into it, who where Link was forced to team up with Kurada.

I got the impression that you wrote the script shot-for-shot from the movie.  Because of this, I feel that the script dragged on quite a bit.  I haven't seen this movie in decades, but I can't imagine the train robbery taken twenty minutes.  The way that movies are made today, this scene would probably take less than ten minutes.

It's not required to write every bit of action in fight scenes.  If this was the case, then all Jackie Chan and Jet Li movie scripts would be 500+ pages long.  All you need to do is give us the general gist of what's happening.


Phil
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Electric Dreamer
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Quoted from dogglebe
I got the impression that you wrote the script shot-for-shot from the movie.  Because of this, I feel that the script dragged on quite a bit.


These points were mentioned near verbatim earlier in the this thread
So, I'll copy and paste those replies here in response.

The fact that you think I simply "copied" a pro script can be taken two ways...

1) It's essentially calling me a plagiarist. That's kinda frowned upon by writers.
    Not to mention it's a tad illegal last I checked. I don't care for that implication.
2) You think my extensive reworking of this script was done by a pro and filmed.
    Therefore, the plagiarism implication, becomes an unexpected compliment.

So, I thank you for #2 and move on.
I agree I tend to write novel like, my action description is thick, I'm working on it.
I hope in time it will not get in the way of my stories so much. Thanks.

Eh, no. I did not copy the movie from television.
That would be a fine exercise to strictly work on format I suppose.
However, I reworked the story from the original script.
IMO, this version is about 70% from the original film.
Almost the entire second half is original material, except for a bit of hotel dialog.
All the action scenes have been completely rewritten and many scenes removed.
New characters were created, some expanded upon, others removed.
So, I guess I should take it as a compliment that you liked the story then.
I know its difficult to compare and contrast, its a relatively hard film to find.

I didn't set out to make this my first script, it just came out that way.
I saw the film and the ideas I had to enhance the story would not go away.
So, I "exorcised" them through writing, then it became about finishing what I started.
I've read you should always finish, its unlikely you'll come back to it later.


But you don't have to take my word for the changes I feel I made.
Earlier in this thread Brian compared and contrasted my script to the original film.

Hi Brett,

So I've watched the film and read the script again (finally! sorry I'm late!), and I agree that about 70% of this is original. The second half of the script is almost completely different from the film, for the better in my opinion. I thought the film fell apart in the second half, right around when the Indian tribe kidnapped Christina. It felt like they were just wasting time and wanted an excuse to film another shootout. That scene had nothing to do with Gault, the gold or the sword and was just not needed. Your script is a lot more focused, in my view, because you got rid of the Indian tribe and added the Captain and the calvary, also because Stone wanted the money, too.

The absolute standout scene in the script is the shootout in the Hotel Maxine, and I'm glad it's all original. That's the point where the script does a complete U-turn from the film and goes its own way. I'm also happy that Maria is more fleshed out in the script, I loved all her scenes with Kuroda and didn't want to see her die.

Also liked the shootout at the ranch, which was also very well handled and not present in the film. I think it was James who commented on the little boy and his toy gun. I thought that part was brilliant, too.

I really liked the small changed at the start. Little Cora and her parents are introduced. I think in the film, Link and Kuroda only share a brief glance before the train boards, but your script has Cora presenting Kuroda with the wooden horse to say sorry for laughing at him. I liked that addition. Also, in the film when Gault shoots the man reaching for his gun, the bullet rips right through him and through the guy in the seat behind. In the film, it's just a random guy, but in the script, it's Cora's father. That was a very, very smart move, as you took a scene from the film with no emotional impact (I didn't know who the guy was), and made it quite moving, especially when Cora shouts "Daddy!".

Another part of the film that annoyed me. When Gault and his crew are riding away, Kuroda calls him over and asks for his name and tells him he intends to see him dead. That didn't work for me. Gault has just killed several people in cold blood, why wouldn't he just end Kuroda's life right there? I'm glad you got rid of this in the script.

Just a small change made me smile - the way Link and Gault made Stone jump from he moving train. In the movie, the just tell him to jump and he jumps, but I liked the addition of shooting his hat off and telling him he'd dropped his hat. A very small change, but it made me smile.

One or two changes didn't work as well as the film, but they were very small and hardly worth mentioning as they didn't affect the story in any way. One example, when Link meets Pepita. In the film, she sees Kuroda first, and is quite rightly scared, then Link appears behind her. In the script, she enters the room and sees Link standing by the doorway and runs into his arms. Like I said, hardly worth mentioning, but that was one of the few instances where the change didn't work any better than the original film.

While I remember, there wasn't much an ending with Pepita and Link in the script or the film. That was something I wanted to see.

I've read the comments, and I wanted to say that Link's character arc worked for me. Someone mentioned that you can see it coming, but it worked for me anyway. I also liked how Link killed Gault with the sword in the script. Much more fitting.

Anyway, it was a good film, but the changes you made definitely improved it overall, especially in the second half. I can't think of anything more to add right now, but if I do I'll come back and add. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the film, I've certainly learned a lot.

Brian



Quoted from dogglebe
I haven't seen this movie in decades, but I can't imagine the train robbery taken twenty minutes.  The way that movies are made today, this scene would probably take less than ten minutes.


Funny you should mention that, Jeff brought up the same point earlier.

Jeff,
Yes, I have watched the film a half dozen times.
It's difficult to find, its not available in most regions on DVD.
However, if you know where to look, you can find it on the internet's charcoal areas.
On the top of page 20 of my script is when Link and Kuroda depart on their quest.
In the original film, this does not happen until 24 minutes into the story.
In that 19+ pages, I have also added several aspects not in the original film.
The sniper, the little girl and wooden horse, Smirker, the Captain & Corporal's lines.
All these folks are in the original film, but have little to no contribution to the story.
I hope this helps answer your concerns about the opening scenes of my script.


You mentioned that in modern films, this would not work.
Your comment sparked an interesting idea for an experiment.
I decided to make a comparison to a modern film, per your claim.
I chose "Shanghai Noon" (2000). Why? It's a loose remake of Red Sun.
I figured what more of an appropriate film could I choose?

At the 15 minute mark, the train heist ends in Shanghai Noon.
At first look, there seems to be credence to what you are suggesting.
However, there is no item that is a bone of contention between the protags.
Red Sun spends about 5 pages on the ceremonial sword after the heist.
That sword polarizes the dilemma between the protags.
IMO it's what separates an action/comedy from an action/drama with comedic parts.
What the sword means to the protags changes over the course of the story.
If you add five pages for that in Shanghai Noon, its about the same as my script.
Shanghai Noon is a popcorn comedy, so it forgoes the dramatic dilemma.

Thanks for suggesting this, I never would have made this comparison on my own.


Quoted from dogglebe

It's not required to write every bit of action in fight scenes.  If this was the case, then all Jackie Chan and Jet Li movie scripts would be 500+ pages long.  All you need to do is give us the general gist of what's happening.
Phil


This draft was written before I joined SS.
You are right, its overwitten and hard for me to look at now.
I've learned a lot about format since I've joined the site.
I'm grateful for those that have shared their experiences.
I am much the better writer for it.
A new draft should be up in 6 - 8 weeks.

Thanks for the bump, Phil. I'll return the gesture soon on Santa, Inc.
Happy Birthday.

Regards,
E.D.



LATEST NEWS

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is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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grademan
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0.24
Hey ED,

I never read or saw this movie. It’s really quite good.  Congrats. You have a great first feature here.

The only real suggestion I have is to avoid asides. Otherwise, mostly picky stuff. The narrative pull was pretty good all the way through at least for me.

Characters: Pepita - is she important enough to be covered in an epilogue? The captain was good but defeated too easily.  

Glad I could help. Detail comments follow.

Gary

FORMATTING: Just me being picky

p 1 The names of the rail cars do not need to be ALL CAPS
      Captain should have description other than just uniform
      Cora should have physical description
       Cora’s dad should be introduced
p 3 Fade to is optional
     The sheriff needs physical description
p 4 beat is optional
       ...family is one row back
        CONT’D is optional
p 25  SAGE BRUSH needed in scene headings?
P 70 periods not needed at end of slugs

NARRATIVE: overall very good / just being picky

p 1 Mention the rail tracks in opening description
     Nice use of alliteration
     Add that the platform is crowded     
p 2 Meticulously dressed as what? A suit and tie?
P 5  a visual for the father’s expression
P 6  the red bandana
p 8  kamikaze description odd for gang member
p 9 rooftop description for soldier is redundant with slug
p 10 train was just moving, did the soldiers move along?
P 12 the captain is on his way to crazy land!
p 31 toward
p 33 good visual of them side by side
p 36 pissing in the well on cowboy – eewwww!
P 42 Maybe the horse speaks Japanese > dialogue
p 43 good mix of action and exposition
p 48 “where’s link?” Might be better “he spots links empty bed”     
        “He fooled me again” and “quick think of something” not needed let subtext   work for you
p 49 innocent kiss between two women - looks like what?
P 54 “just enough to make it interesting” not needed
p 55 gold coin deposit - wish I had thought of that!
P 71  toward
p 84 the knots on the knife were a great ticking clock     
p 89 orphan slug
p 94 compromises > smashes a corner of
p 98 the day is lost > show us how
       murders > kills
       the captain dies too quick

DIALOGUE: overall very good

P 19 the nun joke was a groaner
p 25 grunt line is good
p 26 Link sounds like Robert Duvall in my head
p 31 Butter knife line is good buddy humor
p 62 mouthness is an odd word
p 88 my enemy is cliche - you decide
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Quoted from grademan
Hey ED,
I never read or saw this movie. It’s really quite good.  Congrats. You have a great first feature here.

Hey Gary,

Thanks for the lightning fast read!
It's good to know whether or not you go into this familiar with the original material.
For the record, this draft is about 85% different than the original film.
If you're interested in ever seeing the film, I can show you where to acquire it.
It does not have a proper region 1 DVD release, which baffles me.

Quoted from grademan

The only real suggestion I have is to avoid asides. Otherwise, mostly picky stuff. The narrative pull was pretty good all the way through at least for me.

Characters: Pepita - is she important enough to be covered in an epilogue? The captain was good but defeated too easily.  

Glad I could help. Detail comments follow.

Gary

I wrote this after the latest draft of Lie Detector.
For some reason, I was on a bit of an aside kick those weeks.
Random style flourish, go figure. I'm weird like that.

I'm glad you mentioned Pepita. She's gotten little to no love in the thread so far.
I focused mucho effort on the supporting characters this draft.
Wanting an epilogue with her tells me that she's got some game on the page.
I tweaked that relationship and your comments give me hope it paid off.
I like the idea of folks drawing their on conclusions about Link's decision.
Does he go back to the girl or the gold mine?
Suggesting an epilogue with Pepita suggests you think Link changed. So yay.

The Captain is a work in progress as I trudge through establishing villain clarity.
His role in the original film is thankless at best.
I honestly haven't decided if he should be a megalomaniac or conspirator.
I debated a sword fight there, I would do that if Gault and Link have a shootout.
It could provide some nifty inter-cutting for the film. Mmm, inter-cutting.

Quoted from grademan

FORMATTING: Just me being picky

p 1 The names of the rail cars do not need to be ALL CAPS
      Captain should have description other than just uniform
      Cora should have physical description
       Cora’s dad should be introduced
p 3 Fade to is optional
     The sheriff needs physical description
p 4 beat is optional
       ...family is one row back
        CONT’D is optional
p 25  SAGE BRUSH needed in scene headings?
P 70 periods not needed at end of slugs

I put the rail cars in all caps to help reduce confusion during the robbery.
I think it's the only time I do all caps with props.

I was stingy on character description this time around.
Until I was more suer of what they looked like in my mind, I suppose.
I'll fill something in next draft more than likely.

I will probably drop that FADE TO in the next go around.
I finally found the turn off CONT'D option for dialogue in FD 8.
So, that won't crop up in the new draft of West Side Markets.

The mini slug on p. 68. Yah, I don't know where that period deal came from.
I think it was Bert that pointed out I did that on Markets draft one.
I've put that in my mental folder of format boo boos.

Quoted from grademan

NARRATIVE: overall very good / just being picky

p 1 Mention the rail tracks in opening description
     Nice use of alliteration
     Add that the platform is crowded     
p 2 Meticulously dressed as what? A suit and tie?
P 5  a visual for the father’s expression
P 6  the red bandana
p 8  kamikaze description odd for gang member
p 9 rooftop description for soldier is redundant with slug
p 10 train was just moving, did the soldiers move along?
P 12 the captain is on his way to crazy land!
p 31 toward
p 33 good visual of them side by side
p 36 pissing in the well on cowboy – eewwww!
P 42 Maybe the horse speaks Japanese > dialogue
p 43 good mix of action and exposition
p 48 “where’s link?” Might be better “he spots links empty bed”     
        “He fooled me again” and “quick think of something” not needed let subtext   work for you
p 49 innocent kiss between two women - looks like what?
P 54 “just enough to make it interesting” not needed
p 55 gold coin deposit - wish I had thought of that!
P 71  toward
p 84 the knots on the knife were a great ticking clock     
p 89 orphan slug
p 94 compromises > smashes a corner of
p 98 the day is lost > show us how
       murders > kills
       the captain dies too quick

p. 1 I am a bit of a whore for alliteration. Guilty as charged.
p. 2 I could throw a line in there about his garb, yup.
p. 5 You mean an expression when he's shot?
p. 6 Yeah I all caps red bandana, because of the call back in act two.
p. 10 The train speeds up much faster than they can pursue.
        The bandits keep pace on horseback.
p. 12 I'm glad you caught the set up for the Captain's frame of mind.
p. 31 Yup, caught me sleeping there, thanks.
p. 32 Whiskey chuckling at them was an in the moment decision. Go Whiskey.
        It gave me happy goosebumps, so I went with it.
p. 42 Kuroda dialogue about a Japanese horse could be good there.
p. 48 A peck in the cheek works too.
p. 87 The mini slug at the bottom of the page? I can fix that.
p. 94 Not sure what you mean here.
p. 98 Another style flourish, I was feeling randy that day.

Quoted from grademan

DIALOGUE: overall very good

P 19 the nun joke was a groaner
p 25 grunt line is good
p 26 Link sounds like Robert Duvall in my head
p 31 Butter knife line is good buddy humor
p 62 mouthness is an odd word
p 88 my enemy is cliche - you decide

p. 19 Yes, it is a groaner joke.
p. 26 If only I could put Duvall's voice in Sawyer from Lost's head.
p. 60 Yeah I struggled with that one on the day. It needs a change.
p. 88 Maybe it would be funny if Link said it, but Kuroda was clueless.
        they assume a Japanese would know Chinese philosophy.

Thanks a ton for the super notes, I'm glad you enjoyed this dusty tale.

Regards,
E.D.


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