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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Series  ›  Best Days Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: September 6th, 2015, 2:03pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Best Days by Daniel C - Series - As Tom and his friends head into their final year of university they must confront their past, present and future in order to try and cope with change and learn how to move on in order to come out of the experience in a better place. 50 pages - pdf, format


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dc91
Posted: September 7th, 2015, 5:51pm Report to Moderator
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Hi guys,

This is my script. More than happy to exchange work with anyone and appreciate any feedback I get in return!

Thanks,

Daniel

Edit:
Here is a second draft http://1drv.ms/1kx9pgT
Offer still stands to exchange work!

Revision History (1 edits)
dc91  -  November 5th, 2015, 4:02pm
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NickZ
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I don't know anything about how tv screenplays are formatted so I unfortunately I cannot comment on formatting. In terms of the rest of my feedback it's possible something I single out or comment on may actually fit with how tv screenplays are supposed to be written (I haven't read too many scripts written for tv) so keep that in mind.

I could be off base here, but my sense of your writing style is that you have a lot of experience writing and reading literature. Which is great,, but there are times when it can work against you in a screenplay.  I don't think I'm telling you anything you already don't know, but keep it in mind with regard to any of my feedback concerning possible rephrasing or re-wording. I like to include examples in my notes about potential ways to re-word or rephrase things. The "Examples" I might throw out there are by no means great or even better, they are just  a way to spark your own thinking or clarify aspects of my feedback (not dictate how or what you should write).


p1"a student union bar is being overwhelmed by drunken students..." You could possibly tighten this up a bit and maybe make it more active.

Example: "Drunken students overwhelm the student union bar."


In terms of how the music is described, I love the alliteration of "a soundtrack of sporadic selections of..." but I'm not sure if it works here. You might want consider cutting everything from"set to....and movements" .the information you need to convey to the reader has to do with the music and its presence in the bar.

Example: "Cheesy music pulses through the packed bar. casual conversation drowns" Not a great description,, but that's the basic idea.

"Seemingly somehow oblivious or perhaps just apathetic to the madness engulfing him at the front of the queue TOM stares into the distance lost in his thoughts".

This is  a personal preference but I'm  not big using  "seemingly" or phrases like "or perhaps" . There are always exceptions but you  want to give the reader as clear and focused image as you can (sometimes it at the cost of nuance). You might want to play around with this a bit by automatically taking out all of those types of words and phrases and then saving it as a  draft that you use to compare with your full draft. It lets you see what you gained or lost by keeping or removing them (you can also do this with individual scenes or different elements you feel like you want to reduce).

"We’re drawn to this handsome 20 something year old and his sense of calm becomes our sense of calm drowning out the
surrounding chaos and thumping music with a serene stillness"

There are a lot of "unfilmables" in this description., I personally don't think you have to automatically delete every "unfilmable" you find, but you should ask yourself if you could convey the same image in a more visual sense.

Putting the examples together:


1 INT. POTTEROW DOWNSTAIRS BAR AREA - NIGHT 1

Drunken students overwhelm the student union bar. Cheesy music pulses through the packed bar, casual conversation drowns.

Oblivious to the madness engulfing the front of the queue, stands TOM (20s). Handsome with a soothing manner, he stares into the distance. His serene look impervious to the chaos.




This by no means a great description, it's just one of many different ways you could take your prose and shape it into a more screenplay friendly form. In other words don't junk the "unfilmables" think about how they can form the basis for  more visual descriptions.  I haven't had a chance yet to start going through your entire script, but from what I've skimmed the dialogue seems quite good (which is especially important in a tv script). When I get some time I'll go through more of the script. I think the quality of your writing is really strong, it' just a matter of  adapting it to the medium. Again take everything with a grain of salt,(a lot o the issues I singled out  plague my own writing).

Hope some of this helps as you go forward with it.    



    
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dc91
Posted: September 8th, 2015, 12:19pm Report to Moderator
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It's amazing how you can read something over and over and yet another pair of eyes can immediately see something that makes so much sense. Your version is definitely more effective and suitable for script form so thank you for the feedback! It is true that I have a history of writing short stories and it is hard to get out of the descriptive writing habit (but I am trying, promise!)

I see your point about the unfilmable parts and will look out for this. I agree that offering reasons for Tom's calm demeanour is unnecessary.

Regarding the easing of the chaos in the beginning, I visualise it that its the background noise and music that fades out as we focus on Tom and observe him among the masses. The opening sentence in the script about the bar is something I imagine would set the scene with a few shots to establish the people, movements and the background noise allowing for a contrast to be felt when everything goes quiet and everyone goes still. This obviously wasn't clear enough.  

Thanks again for the advice and feel free to send me something to look at! If you find the time to get through the rest then it would be great to hear more feedback
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eldave1
Posted: September 10th, 2015, 11:42am Report to Moderator
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Daniel - I think you have a good sense for dialogue and a vivid imagination. However, you tend to overwrite the description and they are peppered with un-filamables.


Quoted Text
1 INT. POTTEROW DOWNSTAIRS BAR AREA - NIGHT 1 1


Not a right or wrong here - but I'm not sure that most folks outside of Edinburgh are familiar with Potterrow. I think you might want to have an exterior establishing shot letting us know that where we are. i.e., what and where is Potterrow.


Quoted Text
A student union bar is being overwhelmed by drunken students


Watch out for the "is" and the "ings" in your writing. This should simply be  "A student union bar overwhelmed by drunken students".


Quoted Text
set to a soundtrack of sporadic selections of cheesy music
that matches their mood and movements.


Here is an example of your imagination. I really love the imagery for a novel  - but I don't like it for a script.  There are several issues - I don't know what their mood is so I don't know what their mood (happy - drunk - sad?) and movements (skips - sways - stumbling?) are. Is the cheesy music Sinatra or the Moody Blues? It is also unfilmable as written.  So your heart is in the right place here - but the message is foggy.  

Specify the music and the movements. It won't read as pretty - but your reader will know exactly what your re conveying. e.g., let's say it's Jazz. Then you could write something like - "the students hips sway to the Jazz that....


Quoted Text
Seemingly somehow oblivious or perhaps just apathetic to the
madness engulfing him at the front of the queue TOM stares
into the distance lost in his thoughts.


Again, nice for a novel but has to go for a script. I don't think he can be "seemingly" oblivious. He is or isn't. And you don't need the perhaps something else.


Quoted Text
We’re drawn to this handsome 20 something year old and his
sense of calm becomes our sense of calm drowning out the
surrounding chaos and thumping music with a serene
stillness.


Once again - I really love your writing - seriously, I do. I would read the novel. I just can't see how our sense of calm becoming his sense of calm is filmable.  You need some kind of device to get us here. Sloppy - but here's an example: PATRONS in the que shout out their drink orders in an attempt to be heard over the thumping music. Tom, calm and collected, scans the room as he waits.  

Also - now I know the music was THUMPING. So - it's thumping cheessy? Go with a music genre here and in your opening  - (Hip Hop?)


Quoted Text
BARTENDER (O.S.)
(distorted)
What do you want? Hello? What do
you want?

The outside world begins to filter back in led by the
jarring vibration of a phone alert. The vibration gets
louder and louder as Tom absentmindedly reaches for his
pocket still staring into the distance.
The vibration sound reaches a crescendo and Tom is barged
back into reality by a male STUDENT leaving the scene
satisfied with his latest haul of drinks he can’t really
afford.


Can a vibration really reach a crescendo??????  And if we are hearing this sound it should be CAPPED. Unless the vibration sound is critical - just have Tom fumble for his pone in his pocket.

Also - how do we know the dude can't afford the drinks? If it is important, then he needs to be fumbling through is wallet taking out all the cash he has and paying the balance with coins he counts from his pocket - or something like that.


Quoted Text
BARTENDER
Mate? What can I get you?


For clarity, I would use a parenthetical here. e.g.,

BARTENDER
(To Tom)
Mate? What can I get you?....Hello?


Quoted Text
Tom realises he is being engaged by the stressed but good
spirited bar tender. He leaves his phone in his pocket.


Again - how do we know he is stressed. It most cases, your characters should be saying of doing something that demonstrates the emotion you are trying to achieve. Stress might be - - e.g., the Bartender wipes sweat from his brow...

BARTENDER
Mate, are you going to order?

Quoted Text

Tom picks up two of the drinks he has now paid for.


You don't need to tell us again that he paid for them.

Anyway - there are these issues throughout.

And finally a caveat. You should ignore my advice or at least hear from others first. Here is the problem. I knew what you were saying and the setting was vividly in my head.  Like I said before, if I am reading this novel I am loving it. I just think it does not meet the requirements for the tightness of a script. Best of luck.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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dc91
Posted: September 13th, 2015, 5:41pm Report to Moderator
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Hi eldave1,

Thank you so much for this detailed analysis of my writing. It's clear that my style is off and needs quite a bit of work to be realigned with the required style for scriptwriting. This really is very, very useful. Think I will spend some time reading other scripts to try and learn more about what I should really be doing.

I really appreciate you taking the time to read this and give me examples of how I should be writing. More than happy to return the favour and read something for you ever you ever wanted me to.

For those that have read it and are able to get beyond the style issues, how are the story and characters coming across?

Thanks again,

Daniel
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eldave1
Posted: September 13th, 2015, 7:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dc91
Hi eldave1,

Thank you so much for this detailed analysis of my writing. It's clear that my style is off and needs quite a bit of work to be realigned with the required style for scriptwriting. This really is very, very useful. Think I will spend some time reading other scripts to try and learn more about what I should really be doing.

I really appreciate you taking the time to read this and give me examples of how I should be writing. More than happy to return the favour and read something for you ever you ever wanted me to.

For those that have read it and are able to get beyond the style issues, how are the story and characters coming across?

Thanks again,

Daniel


You are welcome.

A couple of final notes:

In many places you forget to put a comma before a name.


Quoted Text
BERTIE
Seriously. You believe me right
Tom?


There needs always be a comma before the name. i.e.,

Seriously. You believe me right, Tom?

That would be true even if there wasn't a name per se. e.g.,

Seriously. You believe me right, friend? or

Seriously. You believe me right, Sir?

It's an error throughout - but an easy fix.

Yes - reading scripts would be a good learning tool - you can pick any of the ones here or - pick a movie that you really like and google that script - many are available.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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LC
Posted: September 13th, 2015, 7:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dc91
For those that have read it and are able to get beyond the style issues, how are the story and characters coming across?

The characters come across well, the setting etc. I read a good bit of it. You have writing talent, no doubt - good visuals etc.

I can't really add much to what Dave and Nick have said other than to reiterate the fact you need to tone down the novelistic writing and get a hang of screenplay writing.

Read a lot of screenplays, (pro and amateur) read comments on SS, write in a more active and less passive voice.  Edit this script you have here, don't abandon it. You'll get the hang of it if this is the medium you want to write in.


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alffy
Posted: September 15th, 2015, 4:20am Report to Moderator
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Hey, Dan

You've already been told about the over writing and although it is very visual it just fit well in a screenplay as it slows the pace.  In a character driven piece, which I'm assuming this is (just started reading), I want to the focus to be on their actions and less about their surroundings, unless it's essential.

I had a chuckle at the bartender.  I'm not saying you're wrong but my experience of a full bar is that the bartender never speaks and gestures what you want to order and slams the drinks down with little care before snatching your money.  Maybe it's a northern thing? lol.

(Tom often speaks with a very straight-faced sarcasm).  I'd replace this with a parenthetical under Tom's dialogue:

TOM
(sarcastically)
Yeah, luckily I had Bertie to help me.

Missing commas quite a bit but I think Dave's mentioned that above?

Switching locations within a location can be tricky to write.  I personally use mini slugs so you could use: TOP OF STAIRWELL rather than saying in the description that the guy is at the top.

I'd name the girl rather than referring to her as girl from the stairwell. Unless she never reappears of course?

You can cut things like 'Tom is shown lying in a bed...' and simple put 'Tom lies in his bed.'  This will all help the flow and keep it quick to read.

Okay so I've read 10 pages and it seems pretty entertaining so far.  I'll read a bit more later. mate.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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alffy
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Back for a bit more...

Again there are a few things that can be cut easily to break up the sometimes wordy descriptions: You state in a slug that the boys are in the lounge but you then say they sit on a sofa in the lounge, which we already know.

lol, what's a 'wheel of cheese'?

When Bertie does his fajita frenzy, maybe you could use a P.O.V. shot from the camera phone?  You could then lose the dreaded 'we see' as the camera zooms out to reveal the backdrop.

Although I'm enjoying the banter between the characters one thing is starting to nag me a little.  There are times when they say things that I would have assumed, as they're friends that live together, that they would already know and it's been said only to inform us.  An example is Tom and Jamie's conversation about Bertie when he goes off to bed.  Tom tells us some interesting facts about Bertie's past and the American camp but then explains about Bertie's other US girlfriend  after ending things with Ashley.  Jamie asks if she has a boyfriend too.  This all felt a bit forced as I would have thought both Tom and Jamie would already know this as it doesn't appear to be 'new' news and is simply said to help us understand Bertie's situation.

Bit of a coincidence that Mac wakes up the second after being introduced?  Maybe Jamie or Tom should throw something at him?  I do like how he is just there all the time without mention though lol.

Scene 8 starts with a missing 'in'.  The boys are sleeping their rooms.  This scene could also be done as a series of shots and would read much better and fast:

INT. BOYS FLAT - SERIES OF SHOTS

JAMIE'S ROOM
Posters of skiing, surfer and piste route maps adorn the walls.  He turns off his alarm and jumps up.

TOM'S ROOM
Neat and minimal design.  He bashes the snooze button.

BERTIE'S ROOM
Clothes and food wrappers clutter the carpet.  He too hits the snooze.

Jamie selects a beanie.

Tom checks his appearance in the mirror.

Bertie styles his quiff.

KITCHEN
Jamie grabs a banana.

Tom snatches a cereal bar.

Bertie selects a chocolate bar.

BATHROOM
Messy and untidy.  Mac sleeps in the tub.

Or something like that.  I did it quick but you get the idea.  Just a thought, I'm not saying your way is wrong lol.

Ah, I got to stop again as I'm a bit busy but will get back to it again later.  I'm enjoying it so far and want to see what happens.  Have you already thought about future episodes or waiting to see how this one is received?
Also, are you from Edinburgh?  I've been there once, on my stag do, but I can't remember too much about it lol.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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dc91
Posted: September 16th, 2015, 4:31am Report to Moderator
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Thanks again eldave for spotting the comma issues. Will make sure to watch out for that.

Thanks for having a read LC. Definitely want to develop my craft within this medium and will give this script a stylistic revamp.  

Hi alffy, thanks for having an extented read through the script!
With the bartender I have found that at student unions, it is students that work there and they generally are more patient and friendly but you make a fair point and I think a middle ground between our two versions may be the best bet.

I've seen other scripts with the mini-slugs too. I've not used them before but will read up on them.


Quoted Text
I'd name the girl rather than referring to her as girl from the stairwell. Unless she never reappears of course?

The girl never appears again but I agree that names look better in the script.

Thanks for the suggestions about how to fix the flow in different parts. Totally agree that your versions are more effective and read better. I have learnt so much from the comments on this thread, this site really can be a great tool.


Quoted Text
lol, what's a 'wheel of cheese'?

Ha, the "wheel of cheese" is like a prize wheel at this union where if you win a dance off you can spin it to try and win alcohol, electronic goods and of course cheese among other prizes at this student union Saturday night event called "The Big Cheese." It's a throw away line for now but would feature in a later episode.

Yeah, with the fajita frenzy I imagined that we see him from phone view too so I'll make that more explicit. Learned after writing this that "We see" should be avoided at all costs unfortunately.


Quoted Text
There are times when they say things that I would have assumed, as they're friends that live together, that they would already know and it's been said only to inform us.

You've misunderstood the part you mention about Bertie's long distance crush. When Tom and Jamie talk about how "it must be his new girlfriend" they're joking as they've realised he's still talking to Ashley and just hasn't told them. This is my fault if that's not clear.

However, I really don't want the dialogue to seem unnatural/awkward regarding setting up back-story and plot so will be on the look out for this. Thanks for the spot.

Totally agree Mac shouldn't wake up unprovoked. Will rewrite that.


Quoted Text
Have you already thought about future episodes or waiting to see how this one is received?


I don't know if this is common convention but I essentially mapped out a ten episode season (based number on Skins UK seasons, the tone of that series is similar to what I'm aiming for too) and planned out arcs for each of my characters and what themes I want their stories to embody. I have actually written four and a half more of these episodes and whether this is normal to do or not I've found it really helps for getting to know the characters, figuring out what dynamics work (I've found that I really enjoy writing Bertie and Mac together for example but they hardly interact in the pilot which is a mistake) and knowing what set ups I need from earlier on.

This is probably also not recommended but I have written the last ten pages of the last episode which feature a big twist which I felt was important to have established in my mind. It can be changed of course but I think I felt I needed to have some clear enough idea of how it's going to end up and what I'm working towards. But it's fun to be flexible and learn about the characters as you go and having a structure/path helps you discover what feels right and wrong for them to do/say.


Quoted Text
Also, are you from Edinburgh?

I studied in Edinburgh for five years and got to know the city and student life well during that time which is the reason why I chose to use that as the setting (write about what you know )and this period in their lives, their last year of uni, is a time when you have to think a lot about moving on and who you've become which are important themes for the series.

Let me know if you get to the end. Really appreciate the comments so far!
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alffy
Posted: September 16th, 2015, 2:23pm Report to Moderator
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Hey, Dan

I was hoping to read more today but I've been busy with work but hopefully will find some time tomorrow night.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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dc91
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Hi guys,

I've started to rewrite this and I am trying to incorporate shots and mini-slugs in order to better format my action and descriptions and to help me avoid the use of the dreaded W-word. I did some googling but couldn't find the answers to my problems exactly. I am hoping you can help me get this right.

If for example I want to have a close up on someone/thing and then want to exit the close up in the same scene without panning/zooming:


Quoted Text
A hand graces his shoulder.
Tom turns and sees Katie.
She smiles at him.

KATIE
Found you.

Tom looks into her eyes emotionlessly.

CLOSE ON KATIE'S EYES

Tom can be seen in their reflection.

TOM
Are you sure?

KATIE
Yeah, I'm pretty sure...


Then I want to exit the close up. How do I format that?


Quoted Text
EXIT CLOSE UP

TOM
You don't know me though.
KATIE
I think I do.
TOM
People are just who we want them to be. And then we are disappointed when it turns out they're not someone who they never were.
KATIE
Okay, I have no idea what you're talking about now.
TOM
Then you're perfect.

She smiles taking it as a compliment.


Then I'm going back in:


Quoted Text
CLOSE ON KATIE'S EYES

She closes her eyes hiding Tom's reflection. Linger on her closed eyes for a moment. Then he leans in and kisses her.


I'm also not really sure how to write the "linger on her closed eyes" sentence above where I have simply removed a "we" from before. It feels a little awkward in its current form.

Also is there a specific difference between ZOOM OUT and PAN OUT?

Thanks in advance for your time and help!
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eldave1
Posted: September 23rd, 2015, 7:50pm Report to Moderator
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As a general rule, I think you want to avoid all the PANS, ZOOMS, and other camera directions to the maximum extent possible. You are writing a spec script (almost always devoid of camera directions), not a Shooting script.

Here is a pretty good article in this regard:


https://www.writersstore.com/the-new-spec-style/

On mini slugs:

Keep in mind that you never have to use them. They take up just as much line space as a full scene heading so in many cases you will be robbing yourself of the opportunity to include additional detail in the scene heading. If you are going to use them then:

1) they must always be in the same location as the master scene heading (e.g., can switch between ext. and int.) and

2) They must be the same time (DAY, NIGHT) as the master scene heading.

The only time I really use them as when I want to establish pace - like someone frantically searching a house. It would go something like:

INT. RESIDENTIAL HOME/KITCHEN - DAY

Dave frantically searches through the drawers. The gun isn't there. He runs into the

LIVING ROOM

and check underneath the seat cushions of the sofa - no luck. He scampers to the

BEDROOM

And finds his wife sprawled in the bed. The gun resting next to her.

And I would add this - in all cases where you have used mini-slugs - ask yourself the question - could have I just started the scene in the last room without really losing everything.  In the above example, could you just start with:

INT. RESIDENTIAL HOME/BEDROOM  - DAY

Dave enters. Beads of sweat pepper his face. His wife sprawled in the bed. The gun resting next to her. He points at the gun.

      DAVE
I've been looking all over for that.

In terms of your close up example - keep in mind that I am self taught so you may get better advice elsewhere. But assuming the reflection in the eyes is essential, I would write it as follows:

A hand graces his shoulder.
Tom turns and sees Katie.
She smiles at him.

KATIE
Found you.

INSERT KATIE'S EYES

Tom can be seen in their reflection.

TOM
Are you sure?

KATIE (V.O)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure...

BACK TO SCENE

TOM
You don't know me though.
KATIE
I think I do.
TOM
People are just who we want them to be. And then

NOTE: if you are doing a close up of her eyes - i.e., Katie is really out of the scene - you need a VO or OS (i.e., cause we can not see her talking). Just do add more confusion

Hope this helps


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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dc91
Posted: November 5th, 2015, 4:08pm Report to Moderator
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Hi guys.

Having taken your advice on board I've finally got round to completing a second draft of this: http://1drv.ms/1kx9pgT

If you get the chance to take a look that would once again be very much appreciated and helpful!

Thanks again,

Daniel
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