Would any of you like to tell me what I want to include in a query letter? Thanks for the help.

Do they work?

Query letters normally are ONE paragraph in length. This is a good order to follow (there might be others)
1) Title of the script.
2) Genre
3) Brief description of the hook
4) Offer to send him/her the script
5) SASE

Maybe we all should use this thread to post query letters for our own scripts.  We'll help each-other develop those query letters.  Then we'll send them off!

Here is one I sent out for my SCREENPLAY "What a long strange trip it's been"


I would like to submit my screenplay, WHAT A LONG STRANGE TRIP IT's BEEN, for your review.

It's a CREEPSHOW meets THE TWILIGHT ZONE horror/thriller with an interesting hub plot that ties each story together. It is also the first in a trilogy of films I have wrote.

Please e-mail me a submission form if you are interested.

Sincerely, Cary Krepps
-------------------------------
So forth and so on and so on....

It got it read by a few companies and even got me an agent from California, here in Kansas City mo.

The screenplay has yet to be sold, but I have faith after I submit the third and final one of the trilogy it will be marketed quickly.

Why does it need trilogy completion for you to suddenly think everyone will want to buy it, I am curious?

Generally future installments of a series come only after the first in a series does well.  What's your logic on this one?

It's just a way to make the movie feel complete. Without it, the movie is incomplete. It's no real logic, it's just the way I chose to do it.

Also my agent said that it is always best to hit them with two or three screenplays than one. In this particular case and point, why not hit them with a trilogy?

No real way to do it, but they have a good market appeal to them. I also remain skeptical that they will make it to film one day.

Also, trilogy's are big business these days. If you write the other two as well as the 1st one... who wouldn't want two follow ups?

Just a thought..

Baltis... Baltis...baltis!

  THAT Querry is soooo damn simple... short and sweet that it makes me see double... thinking it should READ LONGER!

  I don't know about anyone else out there,  but I have surfed the web and gone into every screenplay or scriptwriting or just plain WRITING web sites and found every "How to write a Querry Letter Guaranteed to get read or bring results."

   They tell you to put all "this crap" in 3 or 4 sentences,,, and make it  interesting enough for them to want to see more.

   I Cringe at the thought of putting into practice what they all say...

   And you say your few words you showed us got it read and action?

   When the time comes I am going to vertually copy what you did and apply it to my two cents worth for MY  script and see what happens.

   I'll let you know how how it went when it happens.

   Sure hope it is that SIMPLE!   alienlady  

OOps     Did you send that SAME letter to agents?

The exact letter was a little more formal of course... However, in a nutshell, yes it was that simple.

Producers and Agents don't like to read... it's not a seceret. They like to see white on the page, and a lot of it. Trust me, re-word this small little querry letter and you'll come up with something, given you send it to the right person or production company.

You gotta remember, it's not gonna happen over night -- if you want it to. If you do it on a whim and throw it out for any fish to read, that's when you get your break.

I've sold 2 screenplays for 5 grand a pop and sit on well over 45 to 55 exclusive and original works, as we speak.

When my time comes... i'll be ready.

------------------

Any knuckly head can sell a screenplay to an independent company like "CABLE PRODUCTIONS" "DIVISON FILMS" "FOURSIGHT" "ALPINE ENTERTAINMENT" for the small fee listed above, as long as you are presistant enough.

I know the two screenplays I did sell had market potential to a draw ratio of people. However, big box office remains to be seen. These screenplays will no doubt sit for some time, and if and when I hit it big with a major film studio... the company who retains the rights to my work will simply make the movie and cash in or not cash in on my name as a established writer.

It's the way things work.

Always have more than 3 screenplays ready to read.

Always make sure you can write more than just 1 genre. Who knows if you will get
hired to write or re-write a screenplay for a production company, even if they turn yours down?

Always ask before you send.

Always describe your movie with as little information as possible. The problem with this site is... to many screenwriters here tell you to much, so that you don't wanna read the movie. Let things flow by themselves.

----------------

this is all just my opinion and my points of view... it's not right. It's not 100% by the book. It's just what worked for me in the past and what will work for me when my time comes again.

Baltis.

OK!  Thanks Baltis...

  But remember this is probably my ONLY screenplay.

   I am Too old to get into something YOUNG people go to "CLASSES FOR" and still have  to hustle to sell their stuff which is PROBABLY REALLY GOOD STUFF!

  I take the, "I am not qualified" stand here!  I am hoping my script lands in the right hands for the right price because it was such a Nationally known Case...Was in Heavy demand right after the trial and covers Teenage Suicide, Legal Issues, Sex Change Husband, Topless Dancing at the age of 17, Exorsisums - (can't spell that word) (GHOSTS!) & Rock & Roll!  Plus... it is based on a TRUE STORY!

  So, what I am saying is that might be my only selling edge!  Not talent...

   I may post some of it for critiquing later...     alienlady

Wow... that query letter got you an agent...

So that's a way to do it!

Hmm... my strategy is changing...

Sure did... JIM KERMEL, is my agent and also my copy rite attorney.

It's always good if you can find an agent who also has a degree in some sort of law... they always workout the best it seems. Well, or so I've been lead down the path to believe anyway.

Short, simple... punchy stuff. Like I said and many others who've landed a sold screenplay -- Folks in the business don't like to read. The less the better. The more white the better.

Try out how simple things can do big things.

It's like a song... sometimes the best sounding song can be comprised of only 3 chordes and a simple melody. Listen to alot of u2's early stuff, simple riffs, simple melody, but so so so very effective. Now, well... they've become a bit more tricky now days, but edge has also been in the game as long as anyone.

* I think this is the right place for this question *

Okay folks, I'm having an issue writing my query letter. Has anyone else managed to complete an nice looking letter? I know the basics are:

1. Logline
2. 1 or 2 paragraphs telling story, characters, conflict etc..
3. Anything useful about myself

But, I'm still having a hard time getting through it. Does anyone have any suggestions? I can't believe I can write a script, yet stumble over summing it up in two paragraphs.

sigh.  

I don't mean to sound like a total newbie, but what's a query letter?

I've finally got my query letter worked out, and it did wonders - I had a request from a producer to read my script!

EverLasting Sorrow - a query letter is a one page letter you send to producers/agents etc.etc... to ask them if they would consider reading your script. It is etiquette to ask ahead of time before sending people your finished scripts.

This would my most pressing problem. I've got the mechanics worked out on the writing process, but I think I have a problem writing a decent pitch. I have four screenplays on SimplyScripts. Those who have read those scripts have had positive, even exemplary, things to say, but those reads are few and far between. When I'd sent out query letters before, I had very minimal response to them.

What does one look for in a good pitch? I know it needs to be short, but I have trouble condensing my plots and subplots into something interesting. Everytime I attempt this, it comes out remarkably dumb, boring, or just cliche.

I've tried online pitching.  The method is highly discouraged, but humans HAVE replied.  And anything that lets them know at least the title of the project is in the right direction.  So here's my highly discouraged method:

HIGHLY DISCOURAGED METHOD OF PITCHING, WHICH I CONTINUE NOT BECAUSE I'M A FOOL, BUT BECAUSE OF A MULTITUDE OF OTHER REASONS:
-Put your scripts on a web-site you've designed around your scripts, and e-mail potential producers; tell them that your web-site is a "temporary online" home/pitch for your scripts.  Beg them to read the scripts and consider producing the scripts.  Sound exactly as desperate as you are, no more / no less.

That's what I've been doing.  There aren't any producers in town (that I know of), with whom I could book a meeting, for a more proper pitch.  ADULT SWIM and CBC are the only people who've replied to my e-mails so far.  ADULT SWIM's reply assumed wrongly and prejudicially, whereas CBC said they'd reply in a week, then haven't replied.  I told CBC how important this is to me, but it turns out that Canadians are impolite.

What I am looking for is how to write a solid descriptive paragraph that accurately depicts the story without losing its intrigue or boring the prospective buyer. I would place this "pitch paragraph" in a query letter and mail it to parties looking to represent new writers. I know the query letter format, but summing up the story in a single paragraph, maybe two, without going overboard is kicking my butt.

I have a website already, but that's more for people to read, not for producers or agents to shop. That was never its intention, since they flat out won't do that for reasons of liability and possible copyright issues, etc, etc....

The query letter is the hardest thing for me to write (along with the treatment...grr!). Here is what I do:

Dear (persons name...try not to be general)

First paragraph is telling them that you have just finish said script from said genre. Maybe even a logline about the story.

Second paragraph is the synopsis. Mine revolves around who the characters are, what their goals/purposes are, who/what is trying to stop them acheiving the goal and what the ending COULD** be.

**  - This is debatable. Some people like to give the ending away, I like to keep it a mystery...that way, I try to intrigue the reader into wanting to read more.

Third paragraph is a brief description of myself, my work, achievements and any other useful information. I always close with asking them that if they are interested, I would gladly send a copy of the script or email it to them if it's more convenient.

Regards,
Stewart

------------------

This is pretty much it. I've yet to complete my next script and already I am dreading the query letter. I actually used ScriptBlaster last time, and got 10 responses to read.

MacDuff

How about catching their eye?  I read this in a book once.  Put your best screenplay in a fancy giftbox with bows and all the whistles, direct it to someone individually (you're sending your query letters to people by name, right?  "Dear Wonderful Lit Agent at XYZ Entertainment:" **shakes head vigorously**), and don't be afraid to use a little humor.  Query letters are so cold and formulaic.  You've seen one, you've seen a hundred.  Try standing out in other ways, besides just a concise description, etc, etc.  (But DO stick with that concise description!)

Be remembered, George.  Drum up office talk.  It can actually be a good thing if your scripts are as good as you say they are.

Also, do you consider the business of these agencies you are sending to?  Our company was sent a Roman Empire epic that the writer saw either as a "movie of the week" or "feature length film".  Oh, and he offered to change character names to suit our needs.  I took one look and threw it away.  Firstly, had he bothered to research before sending:  we're not in the business of making blockbusters with huge budgets, we produce independents.  (a weird mix of some quality and some crap, actually.) and if the writer was volunteering to change his vision to suit us, that was a red flag of desparation too.

Stay true, sound confident, and be different!

In the last couple of days I've logged on to the site in the hope of reading a good action or thriller script. As usual, I looked for scripts that no-one has commented on yet so as to be the first to share my wisdom (or lack of it) on the story at hand.

After reading the synopses of several scripts, I realized why no-one had read them yet:

    The synopsis explains the entire story!

At least 5 of the synopses I've read had this problem. Basically a blow by blow account of the plot including major events, deaths, surprise pregnancies, betrayals, and various other twists.

If I'm going to invest 2 hours in reading a script, I don't want to know who dies at the end of act one or who turns out to be whose father in the final act. These spoilers completely turn me off reading the script.

A synopsis or (even better) a logline, should tell you just enough to make you want to read more not put you off reading altogether.

The logline/synopsis shouldn't be more than thirty words long.  It should read like a TV Guide listing to your script and should contain just enough to draw the reader in.


Phil

TV Guide listing for say a Buffy would be like Buffy and The Gang fight a new evil which tells you just enough that makes you want to watch unless you're one of those people who would say "But she fights a new evil every week and always wins, what's the point?" That's the point I guess, if the logline doesn't tell us much people don't read and when it does tell too much still people don't read.

It's a never ending waste of time if you spend to much thinking about it.

Quoted from George Willson I know the query letter format

Um, as a total newbie to this sort of thing ( ), how does that format look like?

The basic format is a professional letter, except it is in 12-point courier, like it was typed...very much like a screenplay font. It should contain a logline, brief synopsis, and any of your history that might be pertinent. It should in no circumstance exceed one page, and under half a page is best. Brevity is the key word.

Just wanted to share some useful articles I read today.

Logline: http://www.twoadverbs.com/loglinearticle.htm

Pitch: http://www.twoadverbs.com/pitcharticle.htm

I've noticed a common mistake in people's story summaries which I want to bring up.  The following is a sample summary taken from elsewhere, with some minor changes:

"Last year four people were murdered. One of which was Richie Ford's mother. A second which was Toby's brother. Now, a year later, the murders return and Joe Schmidt and his sister Polly will uncover the mystery of these horrible deaths and see how the other two murders last year will tie into the killer's motive."

You shouldn't drop characters names into the summary like this.  They don't mean anything.  It's not as if the summary read, "At the height of the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln discovers a horrifying secret about himself."  We know who Lincoln is.  We don't know who Richie, Toby, Jow and Polly are.  Listing their names is not a draw.  We don't know who they are or how they are all related.

And unless you can identify them in the summary (without making it too long) you should leave the names out.


Phil

This thread can be a good forum for showing people how it should be done.

If you (not just talking to Phil here, but anyone) stumble across one that is really excellent, maybe copy and paste it here so those that are struggling with this will have some good examples to work from.

And explain why the summary is so good.

And Phil's example notwithstanding -- as it is was meant to be instructive -- don't just pick on people by tossing up bad ones, either.

While I totally agree with both of you, I still think you can fit a non-famous name into the summary without leaving the reader scratching his/her head. For example, a summary for an old script I wrote:

"When 11-year old Kayley Jones wandered into the forest, no one would believe her story when she emerged 14 days and 50 miles away later...."

I think that works...but again, I do agree that "Billy killed his brother while Toby looked on..." does'nt work in a summary or logline...

What do you think?

Would it be out of character to kinda want to know just what did happen to KAYLEY JONES? You kinda sparked my interest... LOL!

I wrote the first draft back in the spring. I'll have to fish it out and start the re-write for it.

I'm glad it peaked the interest, but I'm not giving anything away....

Here is a good one from "The Last Good Kiss", in Comedy:

"Paco deliberately catches AIDS before donating a kidney to his brother."

One sentence tells the whole story here, and this description makes the story sound pretty compelling, too.  "Why on earth would he do this?"  A good logline should raise questions and leave them unanswered until you have read the story.

And a comedy?  This?  It also makes me want to read it to find out exactly how all of this is so funny.  Keep your genre in mind -- and try to use it to your advantage -- while composing the logline for your story.

It has a character's name, but I don't think that is always wrong.  Maybe a whole bunch of names is wrong, but the main character is probably OK.

Nobody has commented on this story, but I think that is more a function of the author's absence on the boards as opposed to his story summary.

I think using only a first name works a lot better than a whole name.  When you see a whole name, you wonder if that person is real and if you should know who that person is.  

A great example of a full is this from 'Big Trouble in Little China':

Jack Burton: You know what ol' Jack Burton says at a time like this?
Thunder: Who?
Jack Burton: Jack Burton... ME!

A full name makes thte character seem bigger.  But without any way of knowing who he is, you're lost.


Phil

I am definitely of the persuasion to avoid character names if they can be avoided simply because a simple description of the character tells you much more. If you describe the character as a mother, father, teenager, businessman, workaholic, drunk, co-ed, high school dropout, etc., you get a far better description in one (or a few) word(s) than by using their name.

Names should only be used on long summaries where referencing multiple characters is required, and this only if a short description of the character and who they is provided.

I agree with you George.  If it's just one person mentioned in the summary/logline, a description, you can get away without a description.  When two or three or four people are mentioned, that's another story.

Then again, should you really mention all those people?


Phil

Most loglines for films are boring, at least I find them boring. What brings me onto something whether it be a book, script or film is what it's about. If the logline is boring but it sounds like it could be interesting I just might read/watch it but the logline is still bad.

I think almost every logline summary I've read anywhere is throw away and would be better served if people would put as much into the script as some want in the logline... If the script is not good but the logline is what have we accomplished? Nothing if you ask me.

Yes I know the crap about nobody will buy it if the logline is bad but this is not a buying screenplays site it's just a screenplay site for unproduced writers to get help and share work.

The one thing people could do is shorten down loglines, the shorter the more interest you can garner from people who actually review scripts and not the people who leave "It was really good" basically telling us they probably didn't read the whole thing or they'd have something more to say.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Most loglines for films are boring, at least I find them boring. What brings me onto something whether it be a book, script or film is what it's about. If the logline is boring but it sounds like it could be interesting I just might read/watch it but the logline is still bad.

I like my loglines.  I like them better than my story summaries.  My logline for 'The Burnout' is:  'If You Ever Wanted To Be A Hero...'  I chose to go with the story summary here (which I don't like).

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Yes I know the crap about nobody will buy it if the logline is bad but this is not a buying screenplays site it's just a screenplay site for unproduced writers to get help and share work.

You still have to catch everyone's interest.  If the logline/summary is boring, no one is going to look at it.  Somewhere I posted the story summary to 'Dreams in Dust and Marble' that Randy wrote and put it next to my logline.  People went for the logline.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley The one thing people could do is shorten down loglines, the shorter the more interest you can garner from people who actually review scripts and not the people who leave "It was really good" basically telling us they probably didn't read the whole thing or they'd have something more to say.

I pass over stories because I don't like the summary.  And I've helped a few people with their loglines/summaries in the past.  Summaries shouldn't be more than thirty words and should cover the essence of the story.  Details should be kept to a minimum.  The more you put into a summary, the more likely you'll put something in it to turn others off.



Phil

'If You Ever Wanted To Be A Hero...' - I'd read a script with that logline, maybe it's cause I like original superhero stories and to see how people do heroes whether they are flaud, cliche, boring, stupid, smart.

But if you go into too much detail on complex stories I'd get bored of the logline.

I was looking at some loglines for screenplays I've read and for the most part they are as I said they should be. Short and too the point, although for the most part I like to read what others want me to read because they know what to expect and I won't get into a situation like you and/or Balt do when you leave negative feedback and the writers attack you for it.

I'd probably fight back with them and it forces Don to mod threads.

I just have to get back to reading scripts again, or more than I do now. I have some saved in order to read eventually but enough chatter for tonight, time to go to work.

http://www.screenwritersutopia.com/modules.php?name=Logline

Generates random loglines. If you're stuck for a comedy premise this might be a helpful tool... or maybe not.

Some examples:

An ancient and powerful wizard hits the karaoke circuit with a cunning elf, an obese ogre, and a belligerent dwarf.

A macho NFL quarterback invades Poland with the help of the ghost of Elvis.

A group of cantankerous senior citizens battle problem flatulence in an action-packed epic filled with elaborate, acrobatic kung-fu fight sequences.

A no-nonsense Army drill sergeant competes in gritty inner-city street basketball tournaments with a magical talking bong, in this stoner cult classic.

Here are some of the ones I just got

A single mom exorcise(s) demons back to Hell in a beat-up Buick.

From a land where honor and tradition reign, comes the legend of a samurai who compete(s) in gritty inner-city street basketball tournaments with a cunning elf, an obese ogre, and a belligerent dwarf

A Catholic priest get(s) transformed into a gorgeous sexpot deep in the heart of the Mojave desert.

A small-town girl with big-time dreams take(s) on an army of evil ninjas in this historically-accurate recreation of events from the Civil War.

and my fave of all

The Smurfs coach(es) a hapless little league baseball team in a beat-up Buick.

"America's founding fathers travel through time with a magical talking bong, in this stoner cult classic."

Wow, still laughing. If I weren't so busy I might actually write this.

-Zavier

Sorry I couldn't resist another one

A group of cantankerous senior citizens fight(s) crime in an action-packed epic filled with elaborate, acrobatic kung-fu fight sequences.

Kung-Fu Crime Fighting Pensioners

Sheer brilliance. Someone should write this (except me cuz I'm busy with another project)

Adolf Hitler take(s) on a corrupt sherriff and his sadistic henchmen in the heart of the Amish country.

This one could have been a western short, with time travel combined somehow, lol.

Great find, though it's addictive and makes me want to write more shorts!

Bigfoot go(es) on an LSD-induced psychedelic adventure in this fish out of water tale.


thats great, but i thought canada olny decriminalized pot?


(that joke is olny funny if you saw the myth busters commercial)


edit:Jesus take(s) on an army of evil ninjas set to an all-star 80s soundtrack featuring Air Supply, Journey, and Survivor.

No, this is the best one i've seen. thats great.


edit:An unrefined but precocious orphan girl discover(s) the wonders of self-pleasure shown in spectacular 3-D IMAX.

they just keep getting better. hahahaha


edit:A Roman gladiator discover(s) the wonders of self-pleasure in the feel-good comedy of the year.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!


EDIT;A gangsta rapper invade(s) Poland in two hours of the raunchiest hardcore porno action you've ever seen.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

omg, no more, i'll end up killing myself with laughter.

This is part of a logline from an actual script on this site:


Two cantankerous old grannies rebel against society and embark on a road trip full of adventure through America's southwest.


Hmmmm.......Interesting

I noticed the logline generator myself a while ago, tried a few times and had a little giggle to myself..

Then I read you guys postings here and was reminded of the potential of that thing.. Well slap my bottom, this stuff actually brought tears to my eyes.. Jeez.. Very funny.. Hehe..

A ruthless mafia kingpin come(s) out of the closet and in the process learn(s) the true meaning of Christmas.

A Catholic priest compete(s) in gritty inner-city street basketball tournaments in a blood-filled teen slasher.

And here's the killer of them all, imagine seeing this on the back of a DVD case:

A microwave burrito become(s) a nanny for a conservative aristocratic family with a mischievous orangutan.

The Muppets come(s) out of the closet in this heartwarming animated adventure.

Bigfoot rise(s) from the grave in this historically-accurate recreation of events from the Civil War.

Jesus discover(s) the wonders of self-pleasure set to an all-star 80s soundtrack featuring Air Supply, Journey, and Survivor.

The Muppets tries (try) to lose their virginity in two hours of the raunchiest hardcore porno action you've ever seen.

Quoted from Antemasque The Muppets tries (try) to lose their virginity in two hours of the raunchiest hardcore porno action you've ever seen.

Damn, I think I've seen that movie.

Here're some good ones:

The Hindu god Vishnu befriend(s) the creatures of the forest in two hours of the raunchiest hardcore porno action you've ever seen.

The Muppets invade(s) Poland in two hours of the raunchiest hardcore porno action you've ever seen.

The Hindu god Vishnu indulge(s) in beer bashes, toga parties, and an assortment of ill-advised hijinks in two hours of the raunchiest hardcore porno action you've ever seen.

This one's just disturbing:

A microwave burrito hack(s) up coeds with a rusty machete in two hours of the raunchiest hardcore porno action you've ever seen.

But this one takes the cake. Funniest one I've read yet:

Bigfoot become(s) a pimp in order to pay off a gambling debt.

This one could make actually make a feasible film if done right:

From a land where honor and tradition reign, comes the legend of a samurai who rescue(s) a group of American P.O.W.'s in an action-packed epic filled with elaborate, acrobatic kung-fu fight sequences.

Quoted from Nixon "America's founding fathers travel through time with a magical talking bong, in this stoner cult classic." Wow, still laughing. If I weren't so busy I might actually write this.

I actually did get around to writing this; it got put up today, in the short section.

-Zavier

I'm sorry this one wins:

A retarded boy discover(s) the wonders of self-pleasure in the inspiring story loosely adapted from the Bible.

This thing rocks. You can't really get "good" stuff from it, but it's super funny. I tried to make one of those one time, but I forgot about it...

Call me a thread necromancer, but this is still good. I'm thinking this would work well as a short writing exercise. You go into the generator and click. The FIRST one that pops out, you have to write on. It would be on the honor system, but what do you think?

I recently saw Inside Man and as you can tell from the thread in the movie reviews board I thought it was excellent. I also think it's astounding that the guy that wrote it got spike lee to direct and denzel washington to star in it considering it was his first script. I think it's a prime example though of a quality script and it had some of the things needed to help anyone break out.

1. A familiar genre (bank robbery, heist flick)
2. A new, and original tweak on that idea. I feel that new scripts can be original in two ways.
a. Some absurb, twisted idea that no one has ever thought of before and likely will never think of again (the kind of script most likely picked up by indie studios)
b. and the one that takes a familiar idea and just kicks ass with it (the kind that will make you big bucks no matter what your status as long as you get it to the right people).

If you haven't seen this movie then seriously get to it especially if you're an aspiring screen writer like most people on this site. It has everything you can ask for. It starts with a familiar bank robbery and adds a twist on it that at first seems so simple but the more you think about it the more ingenious it is.

It also contains good characterization for the most part. Just because it's a genre flick about a bank robbery doesn't mean it has to be mindless entertainment. But then again at the same time it doesn't overcomplicate things. It finds the perfect balance between entertainment and braininess.

Secondly, the script contains the perfect mix of humor and suspense something that is lacking in alot of movies. It's not afraid to go off track for a few seconds and get some laughs but when the laugh is over it's right back to hooking us in.

So, in conclusion I think it's a prime example of how the script that could break you out could possibly be the one that sounds the most generic. As long as there is more to it than at first appears you're on the right track. You have a commercial idea with some new ideas that will shock those used to cookie cutter formulic movies while bringing in the crowd that likes their movies a little different. So if you're thinking of an idea for a new script don't try to think of something so out there. THere are original tweaks and ideas to be added to ideas that are years old.

Anyway, does anyone agree/disagree with the points I brought up? I seriously can't praise this movie enough. If there's one idea I wish I'd come up with since I got into script writing it's this one. It also taught me to look for ideas in simplistic things and not dismiss something right away because it's been done before because chances are if you think hard enough it's been done nothing like you can imagine it.

I think you're exactly right. You have to use the familiar to get into the industry so that the story you tell is easily relatable to anyone who reads it. Hollywood finds the familiar to be safe, so familiar with a twist is perfect for them. Sure, we all want to find something new and different, but new is translated a risk in Hollywood terms. And businesses don't like taking risks. A new screenwriter is a risk, so they would be willing to see a safe idea from an unsafe writer.

But once you get something out there, then you become less of a risk. Then maybe they can afford to risk something new from you since you are no longer new.

My thoughts...not that they've taken my rehash ideas yet...

After surviving a phone pitch last week, I thought I would share some points that may help others in the future.

I co-wrote a script with another writer, based on a concept and script that I had originally completed. In the process of shopping it around, one agent wanted to speak with us. I took the challenge, thinking she just wanted to talk about the query letter and storyline in a casual manner...not so. I basically had to sell her on the script right there, right then. Talk about being put on the spot!

After the nightmare, I thought of these points to help others:

1. NEVER go into any meeting without either knowing your synopsis by heart or having it handy to refer to. Be clear, concise, confident and to the point when explaining (selling) the story (idea).

2. Make sure you know what makes your script different than the other 1,001 identical scripts that she has sitting on her desk.

3. Be clear, concise and to the point when telling her how your script IS different than the now 1,010 scripts sitting on her desk (even if it's not different, sell it like it is)

4. Don't be the nice guy, but don't be the jerk. Be blunt and to the point. She NEEDS to read this script. It's her LOSS if she doesn't accept it.

5. If the agent/producer declines, find out why and if they would be interested in being queried in the future.

6. Don't forget to mention to producers that you are available for assignments if they are also looking for writers.

7. THANK them for taking the time to talk to you.



In our case, the agent declined to read the script because of a few things. She doesn't like horror and would find it difficult to sell the concept. Second, she would prefer to only work with more experienced writers (which is BS really, together my writing partner and I have 3 scripts optioned, 1 movie produced and the possibility of more). Third, she doesn't like working with collaboraters.

Needless to say, this pitch was a strikeout...but that's okay. I thanked her for her time and moved on. It's currently sitting with about 7 or 8 other managers/prod. companies.

Hope this helps.

Quoted Text 1. NEVER go into any meeting without either knowing your synopsis by heart or having it handy to refer to. Be clear, concise, confident and to the point when explaining (selling) the story (idea).

Step 1 cancels me out, is that bad? I suck in job interviews which is why I work in a factory. I know all my stuff front to back and why it's different but put me in front of someone who matters and I'd screw it up.

Maybe it'd be easier over the phone.

Like I said in another thread I have a tendancy to say "uh" when I'm nervous and "uh" is not exactly a good tool to selling screenplays through speech ha-ha

Good tips though.

haha.

I say "uh" a few times during meetings and stuff at work. In a pitch, I don't think it would be the difference between yay or nay. As long as you were able to answer any questions you'd be fine.

Useful advice, thanks man.

Here's a good article about the basics of pitching in case anyone's interested.

http://www.twoadverbs.com/pitcharticle.htm

Here is a question posted to John August (writer of Go, Big Fish, Corpse Bride, Charlie's Angels, Charlie & Choco...)

He has a great website for screenwriters: http://www.johnaugust.com


QUESTION:
Would a producer frown on a writer bringing in a ringer to a pitch meeting?  I am the absolute WORST pitcher on the planet.  Could I bring in a friend of mine who is excellent at pitching to do the dirty work for me?  Is this even acceptable?

--Gary


ANSWER:
Nope. Not unless your friend is going to be writing it with you.

Believe me, I recognize the fallacy of expecting a writer -- whose principal talent is sitting alone in a room for hours on end -- to suddenly be talkative and entertaining when pitching a project. Most writers, self included, would much rather toil away in happy isolation. But producers and studio execs want to hear from the writers themselves. So we put on our least-wrinkled clothes, practice what we're going to say, and try not to make asses of ourselves in pitch meetings.

My standard advice for any pitch: Pretend you just saw the best movie ever, and you want to convince your friend (the producer) why she should see it. Try it with a few real movies and you'll see that you naturally hop from high point to high point, and don't dwell a lot on the underlying logic or subplots. That's a pitch.

Can someone explain to me exactly what a Query Letter is. I think I have sort of a vague idea. I should know what this is, but I don't.

Can someone inform me?

A query letter is your introduction to a producer or agent or whoever you want to read the read.  It should be as short as possible and consist of the name of your work, a brief synopsis (one paragraph), a listing of any writing credits and awards worth mentioning.

You only have one chance to sell yourself, and only one page to do it.


Phil

Some of these aren't that bad. I just got this one and it could be done.

Quoted Text A no-nonsense Army drill sergeant challenge(s) the social mores of upper class society set against the backdrop of a Florida retirement community.

Or this one.

Quoted Text A grumpy midget take(s) on an army of evil ninjas deep in the Compton ghetto.

This one could be such a classic inspirational piece.

Quoted Text Adolf Hitler rise(s) from the grave and in the process learn(s) the true meaning of Christmas.

Quoted from George Willson Call me a thread necromancer, but this is still good. I'm thinking this would work well as a short writing exercise. You go into the generator and click. The FIRST one that pops out, you have to write on. It would be on the honor system, but what do you think?

I actually think that's a good idea.

this is what I got

A group of Mexican banditos discover(s) a hidden talent for dance and in the process learn(s) the true meaning of Christmas

and this, which I think is the winner

The Muppets battle(s) problem flatulence in this documentary narrated by James Earl Jones.

I hate writing loglines because I'm always afraid that I will make it too detailed or I won't have enough information. I just don't like it when new screenwriters join this site and submit their first script, and write a summary for the script, telling us what the characters look like, what their problem is, and, sometimes, how they solve the problem, which pretty much ruins the ending for me.

But this will come in handy once I submit my next script..

Thanks Kev

Sean

Hello, all. Happy Holidays. I've come to ask for some assitance if you so kindly allow. i've been working on this script for a long time now - a year or two. this is my fourth draft. Nevertheless, before posting this script with a weak logline on this site, I want to ask if this logline fulfills the logline quota. I believe so,  but I want to get other members opinions:

"When Maria dies by a serial killer?s hand, Patrick (her husband), Edward (her brother), and Paul (her friend) form a plan to avenge her death by their own means."

Does it inform to much or to little?
Does it cause a spark of interest to read it?

Thanks to those who respond.

Gabe

I heard it wasn't good to include names.

"When a infamous serial killer takes a womans life, her loved ones seek revenge."

Most members probably will still read it even if the logline is throwaway. You just have to get people interested and or exchange it. The more good reviews you get, the more others will want to check it out.

I have the same problem with my new screenplay. Coming up with a logline to get across the plot in one sentence is not easy.

Quoted Text LOGLINE: A one sentence summary.

Alex has the best idea and it makes you want to read it.

Alex has it right.  Unless you're writing about a famous person, there's no reason to put in their names.


Phil

Thanks Alex Cooper, Weasley, and Doggebe for your contribution. I initially had it somewhat in that fashion before but changed it since I thought I had to be specific. Nevertheless, it's best to be safe than sorry. Thanks guys again.

Here is something I came up working off Alex's verison and my first verison of the same logline:

"Three individuals seek justice on a serial killer when one of their loved ones joins his victims’ list. "

Gabe

Both you and Alex have good loglines now.  Which one you choose may depend on who's point of view you're using writing from with the script.


Phil

Thanks, Phil. I would like to use Alex's but that belongs to him per say. So, I'm using mines. Thanks again.

Gabe

Usually, when we offer logline suggestions, we give the writer permission to use them.  Ask if you ask his better.  I doubt he would mind.


Phiil

Wow...didn't know about that. Thanks for letting me know. But still I see this as good preperation on my part in scriptwriting especially for the logline. Also, I think it fits my script as you wrote earlier. Thanks for your hospitality.

Gabe

I wouldn't mind at all, but yours sounds better because it doesn't start with the cliché, when...

Here's a simple logline for you, based on your screenplay idea...

LOGLINE

When a serial killer murders a wife, a sister and a friend he didn't count on revenge. Now the deadly hunter becomes the hunted.

TAGLINE:

When the hunter becomes the hunted.


Kevan

Thanks Alex for the chance in allowing me to use your logline, but I've choose to go with mine. Not on the basis that it avoids the "when" cliche but just that it fits with the story as Phil adviced me before. Nevertheless, thanks again.

Kevin thanks for your input. I utilized one of your helpful threads that is in relation to loglines in order to come up with the one I have now. It's astonishly what you find when you take some time and look around. thanks again.

Gabe

It's been quite a while since I last posted. Due to the helpful assistance of members here, explaining formatting and so on, I've finally, a year and a half later, finished my first script. Below is the first draft of its logline. Also, as no one here has read my script, I'm particularly interested in your first thoughts on the "story".


"The Philosopher King"

"At the incipient of a dystopian future, a venturesome teenager unexpectedly finds himself far from home, where he must survive to discover the machinated truth."

Hey AlMac did you swallow a thesaurus or somet?  Well I need one to ave any idea what your logline means lol!

man are you related to Dennis Miller or something.  I have no idea what half them words mean.  Could you please translate?

What these guys are telling you, AlMac, in their own way, is that this is a poor logline.

Sorry, but it is.  You asked.

Not withstanding the fact that incipient is an adjective -- and inappropriate as you have used it here -- your logline reveals nothing about the story other than it involves a teenager at some point in the future.

Who is he?  What are his obstacles and goals?  A good logline will tell us.

We will not be drawn into your story with ornamental wordplay.  In fact, as you have seen here, this may very well have the opposite effect.

What will draw us in is a compelling story.  Set it up for us.  In a sentence.  Or two.

Much harder than it sounds -- but also simple as that.

The logline is not the time to get all fancy on us.

I don't know what DYSTOPIAN means, maybe it is something related to born previlously.

So. I think the logline for The Philosopher King is simple like that: "An aventuresome teenager unexpectedly finds himself far from home, where he must survive to discover the machinated truth in the dystopian future."

If it wasn't abou' future this teen semed to be like Dorothy in "The Wizard of Oz" or mlike many other history like that.

For me it is okay, but taking that dystopian word off, of course !!!

I'm sure you have an interesting story here but it's not coming through in your logline. It's too vague and awkwardly worded. In essence, a logline needs a protagonist, a goal, an antagonistic force, and a sense of what's at stake.

Read Chris Lockhart's article on the construction of a logline and try again.

http://www.twoadverbs.com/loglinearticle.htm

Thanks for the replies, excellent feedback. I'm drafting another version now.

Bert, you're right! How embarrassing... I'm a trained English Language teacher and that's a gaping error. It should of course be "incipiency". Or, indeed, perhaps not... needless verbosity. The affliction of the philosophy student.

Helio, in regards to the word "dystopian", it's an interesting comment. A "dystopian novel" is a popular style of fiction. I feel the word is quite vital in regards to the logline. However, I think it definitely needs some more elaboration - plot wise.

Thanks for the link Martin, I printed that article off a while back, I'll reread it.

Back soon!

I don't read scripts unless the logline catches my attention.  I read yours and I wondewr,WTF?

Dumb it down a little bit.


Phil

Wow, that's one helluva mouthful. I praise you on your use of vocabulary, but Phil's right. It needs taking down a few IQ points.


Matt.

The problem with the logline is that it's non-specific. the truth about what? How/why does he find himself far from home? Has he been banished? Has he run away? Has he travelled in time? These things I need to know so I get a sense of what the movie's conflict is.

Your vague use of concepts like "truth" makes the whole thing seem like it's about a guy sitting on a rock for two hours thinking about "the machinated truth".

You don't need to lose dystopian though, that's a good reference point that embodies a certain style/tone of sci-fi.

Hope it helps.

Once again thanks for the replies. I've reconsidered the main elements of the logline. I'll note my thoughts and intentions with this version: I've added a "negative" (privileged) and a "positive" (resilient) character trait (the positive trait needing to be exposed by the extreme situation). I thought about "spoilt" being used instead of "privileged", as it's a stronger and more emotive word, however I feel it would be misleading. I've attempted to establish the background setting and also the main feature of the script. One problem I had is that the "island section" of the script only accounts for 60% (or so); and therefore it's not the essence of the film. I hope the last paragraph backs that up, at least partially. Finally, I'm still not convinced by use of the word "isolation" - as it not only implies geographically isolation, but social isolation, which would be untrue to the story as there are others struggling on the island. Nevertheless, I don't want to infer that this script is an ensemble piece, nor go against the maxims of the TwoAdverbs article.

Anyway, I look forward to reading your opinions, once again. Thanks.


The Philosopher King

As a peculiar result of a socio-political collapse, a privileged teenager must resiliently fight for survival on a distant island, whilst he discovers the dystopian purpose of his isolation.

Unless your intent is to appeal solely to lit majors, you are still being too extravagant.  But I sense that dystopian is important.  So keep that.  They can look it up.

Still not sure what is going on here, so I toss out this amended suggestion from a position of relative ignorance:

Following the collapse of his society, a privileged teen finds himself thrust into a fight for survival in a distant land, unaware of the sinister forces that all the while manipulate his isolation on this dystopian island.

No offense, but it still sounds like a snoozer.  Maybe that's just me.  Isn't there any action here?  Intrigue?  Play that up.

Every post in this thread is landing on me like a fist to the face! I just submitted a script with a very vague logline... "Sex, drugs, murder, rape, and revenge." Awful!

Seth

Quoted from AlMac The Philosopher King As a peculiar result of a socio-political collapse, a privileged teenager must resiliently fight for survival on a distant island, whilst he discovers the dystopian purpose of his isolation.

It's still too vague for me. I don't have a sense of the central conflict or the universe in which this takes place. Phrases like "the dystopian purpose of his isolation" mean nothing to me without some kind of context. It feels like you're withholding some kind of twist. If so, maybe you should share it here and it'll help us get an idea of what your story's really about.

A good logline will give the reader a mental image of the entire movie, conflict and all. The last thing you want is people scratching their heads.

What is your protagonist fighting against? 'Society' is too vague. I need an idea of what his struggle involves. Who are the bad guys and what threat do they pose? Does your protag achieve his goals through violence or non-violence?

What is he fighting for? Survival? How is his life in danger?

Bert's version is an improvement. Notice how he hints at an antagonist. That's what this logline is missing.

This might not be your story but:

"In the wake of a society's collapse, a gifted teenager, exiled to a distant land, fights back against a murderous dictatorship intent on worldwide domination."

Bah, I suck at loglines too

A synopsis would help.

The title worries me as well. Sad as it may be, audiences tend to root for doers, not thinkers. Actions speak louder than words, or thoughts in this case.

Yeah, there is a twist - several. However, in my view, not vital to the core of the plot. Still, I'll throw down a synopsis after my next attempt at the logline.

bert: It's worrying that the concept - albeit in its verbose and confused form - isn't intriguing you. I need to really examine the central drama in my script. I'll get to that next.

And bert and Martin, thanks for your drafts of a logline. I see the directness of them. I've been throwing my logline around a few places, to garner the most advice possible; I'll collect my results and post a new logline shortly.

In regards to the title: Yeah, I understand what you're saying. For now, I'm going to stick with it. I think it fits perfectly. However, films are generally marketed as extrinsic character pieces, so that's something I need to think about.

About looking up "dystopian", I'm 100% confident that an agent/producer will know its meaning. In fact, I think they'd probably understand all the words. It's just a matter of it reading quickly and slickly, and indeed portraying a genuine story.

Thanks again.

Al

Quoted from "Pumpkinhead" "At the dawn of a bleak future an adventurous teenager must not only fight to return home but also to seek the true reason for his enforced banishment"

Ah, yes. That does rather set up both character predicaments. Excellent, thanks.

Back soon!