To me, that's like comparing apples and oranges, though.  

Tis the Season definitely falls into the dark comedy category, with more emphasis on the dark, while "There's Something about Mary" falls more into "vulgar comedy".  A closer relation would be "Me, Myself, and Irene".  The deleted "Watermelon Scene", but even that's more vulgar than dark.

Truth be told, this is just one of those scripts that simply can't be assigned to one genre, although I think James' decision to flag it as a comedy was the right one.

I wasn't comparing genres or anything like that at all.  I was merely giving an example of a masterbation scene that "worked" in a comedic way.  I have to assume that James was aiming for humor in including his...but for me, not only wasn't it funny...at all, but actually turned out as gross, dirty, and ugly.

KNow what I mean?

Quoted from Dreamscale I wasn't comparing genres or anything like that at all.  I was merely giving an example of a masterbation scene that "worked" in a comedic way.  I have to assume that James was aiming for humor in including his...but for me, not only wasn't it funny...at all, but actually turned out as gross, dirty, and ugly. KNow what I mean?

Yes, I know what you mean.  I think the past few posts of ours where we've essentially agreed with each other has proven that.  

My last post wasn't so much in that I felt you were really comparing genres, just styles of comedy.  I just think it's more in that you like comedy that's a little more obviously funny, although vulgar, as opposed to something that strays a little off the beaten path into dark and creepy.

Right on...agreed completely.

So...can we move this discussion on, or is it a dead horse?

I don't feel like we've really given James very much to work with.

One thing I always look for in scripts (in here, or anywhere else), is their commercial appeal...or potential.  I base this on a number of things, as I've already brought up.

I realize completely that the majority of writers in this forum are merely practicing their craft and many times, just writing because they love to write.  This is all fine and good, but when I invest 2-3 hours reading a script, and another 30-60 minutes thinking and writing my critique, I'm going to give it straight up and let the author know exactly how I really feel.  I don't think most are doing this, and I don't think it's doing the author a service by merely saying, "I like it...it's really good...".

When someone posts a script in here, they're opening themselves up for critique, and sometimes...maybe most times, that critique isn't going to be always glowing.  I feel this is good and hopefully helps the writer understand what works and doesn't work, and why.

I have a good feeling that many writers in here think I am too harsh, mean, nit picky, or just downright evil..,I hope not though.  Actually, I'm one the more easy going guys you'll ever meet, and what I say is merely an effort to help, to educate, and to move the writer forward in the process.

So...is there some topic we can address with this scipt?  I'm open and ready to go.

I mentioned some...  

Quoted from Dreamscale I realize completely that the majority of writers in this forum are merely practicing their craft and many times, just writing because they love to write.  This is all fine and good, but when I invest 2-3 hours reading a script, and another 30-60 minutes thinking and writing my critique,

I may not be the best reviewer on the planet, but I take offense to your comment! When I read a feature, I always print it out first then I read it. I'm a slow reader too... then I let it simmer in my head for a day or two then I re-read it and type up my comments. This process takes me many many hours. Don't assume you're the only one that put in some effort!

Merely practicing our craft!! The writers here vary from first time writers to optioned and sold writers!

I'm sorry that you took offense to my comments...that wasn't my intent at all.  I do not in any way think that I am the only one who puts effort into this.  I enjoy it, so the effort isn't like work or something that I have to do.

I'm merely saying that based on the time that I do invest, I'm not going to sugarcoat anything, and I'm not merely going to say, "it was good...I liked it...".  I always think my responses out, and usually think about them for days after...if something comes up in my mind, I'm going to throw it out there.

I also undertand that there are many, many talented writers in here.  But as I said, the majority do not fall into that category, which isn't a bad thing at all.  That's what makes this place fly and also what this site is all about...writers reading other writers works, and giving their thoughts and opinions on those efforts, to help them along.

If you're really investing a double read, as well as a well thought out critique, you're investing one Hell of alot of time...most of us don't have that amount of free time.  I respect the fact that you're doing this very much.

OK?  Didn't mean to piss you off.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Merely practicing our craft!! The writers here vary from first time writers to optioned and sold writers!

I've been produced!


Alright, enough of that bullshit.  I don't think Dreamscale's assessment was an all encompassing assessment of reviews, just a general observation, and he's totally right.  Yes, there are some people here who give really shit reviews, and here's a surprise, for very different reasons.

1)  "Cool script" - That's it.  No feedback on anything, just a brief blurb to let somebody know that they may have read it.

2) "There's a typo on this page, and this page, and this page" so on and so forth.  These annoy me as well because the reviewer is bulking up their feedback with nothing more than pointing out typos.  Realistically, any writer that knows what they're doing is going to catch these at some point, and if they don't...well, they have problems.  I will point out things that seem like they won't be caught "ahem...masterbation..ahem", but other than that, the writer is pretty much on their own.

One thing I recently pointed out, from a technical aspect, was Blakkwolfe's use of "hotel" in Mercy.  It's a common mistake, but not a lot of people catch it.  It was somewhat weird of me to point out, but there is a difference between a motel and hotel, so I went with it.

My reviews, are pretty much relatively straightforward, where I give feedback on what I thought of things on the whole.  Since I've gotten a little more experience under my belt, I've been able to discuss things like plot points, character arcs, etc...but I try not to focus as much on those things since having them doesn't necessarily equate to having a good script.  Story is still king, and that's really where I try to stress things.  Of course, I will point out if certain elements aren't met, because in the grand scheme of things it really does help to improve your chances of selling.

As far as continuing the discussion.  We can talk about whatever.  No big deal to me.

Thank you Shelton, you are right, first of all, in that I was talking about a general assessment, and I thought I made that clear.

Secondly, I totally agree with your example about hotels and motels in "Mercy".  I've seen that mistake more than once myself, and I have a feeling that, like you said, many don't "catch it".  But it makes a huge difference.

Also, as I said, I have a feeling that I have this way of pissing people off in what I say, or maybe the way I say it.  That is never my intention.

I gave a scathing review of Cornetto's script in the OWC, and I never one thought that he would be upset in what I said, or the way I said it, because I know that he realizes he's a great writer, and can take any critisism he's going to get.  I feel that when you get a less than stellar review, it makes you appreciate the times that you get a glowing review all the more.

Maybe in a way, I was merely trying to get some back and forth going in here.  As I said, I don't feel that Jame's script is getting what he thought he would get, being in a "Script Club" format.  Guess I was just stirring the pot a bit.

But I'll stand tall in what I said about investing 2-4 hours in reading and reviewing scripts in here.  It's kind of the way I approach life...if I'm in, I'm way in, and I won't pull any punches.  Hopefully, the authors of the scripts I've commented on understand this and appreciate my insight, whether or not they agree with it.

Every new angle or view point can only help in the long run, if that's truly what the author is looking for.  I don't like pissing people off, but sometimes it just may be exactly what the doctor ordered.

So...back to "Tis the Season"...where do we go from here?  

Evening ladies and gentlemen... I just caught on to 'Script Club', and I would like to be apart of it. It's looks like you guys are well of into this script, so I'm wondering, since I haven't read 'Tis the Season', should I wait till Script Club III or get busy reading 'Tis the Season'.


I did read a few of the recent comments, which appeared to about something I've been pondering, a reason actually I want to be apart of this. Which is about reviewing, I've read handful of reviews that didn't get any response by the author. I usually stay in the horror genre because it appeared to be the most active with reader/writer-response. I look through the thriller section and see all these scripts with zero reviews like 5 or 6 in a row. I think how ridiculous can you get. I don't understand how someones, I mean literally, first post be a script and not a review, baffling. It's gotten to the point, where I don't won't to read a script untill I've seen how many posts that writer has. I don't think I'm being unfair, here. Do you? When I review I read the script, along with the other readers review, for approach in my on review. Anywho let me know whether if Script Club III is coming up or I should 'Tis the Season'.


One more question do you have to submit a story in order to review in the OWC?


Thank you, BLB.

"Madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it needs is a little... push."

Hey, Bee.  At the risk of sending the Script Club thread spiraling off track, I will just pop on here to say that you do have generally the right idea about checking an author’s post count before reviewing a script.

I have seen you dropping some fairly comprehensive reviews, and it is frustrating to see you give a good treatment to somebody who:

(a)  Posts their script without knowing the discussion board exists.
(b)  Posts their script with no intention of ever being active on these boards.
(c)  Pops in to say, "Thanks for reading my script" without acknowledging any of your points or questions, then disappears again.

It is perfectly fair to only read scripts from active members.  That is all I read, and I make no apologies for it.

*  As for Script Club, ask Pia.  I have kind of handed this off to her, since it was her idea.

*  As for the OWC, you have to wait for them – they are approximately quarterly.  When they come around, write something up and send it to Don.  If you are not sure how to submit a script, drop me a PM and I will tell you.  It is very easy.

Perhaps a bit too easy, but that is a conversation for a different thread.

Now, back to the discussion of James' script, already in progress....

It's my thing now?

Well, first I'm going to apologize for getting mad earlier in this thread. That is so "unlike" me as a few people here knows. Just ask anyone from the Friday night SS Skypers. In fact I'm so cool and calm that I make the most unemotional Swede look like a hot headed Italian.

Anyway, yes BLB, this will continue, I hope. I know I for one would like to discuss a little deeper the details of this script. Also James McClung is a long time member here and is one of the most proficient readers and gives very valuable input on scripts. I would love to see a discussion of this script to continue.

Pia  

OK Pia, so how about you give some feedback on this, then.  Whatever you want to discuss, I for one am ready to go.

I agree that James needs much more than we've given him.

Why don't you select a new idea and run with it.  I'll jump in with my comments as soon as I see your post.

Cool?

PS  Sorry for making you mad earlier.  Are we cool?

Quoted from Dreamscale Are we cool?

Of course!!

I'm just a cranky old bat. Never mind me..... feel sorry for my husband though.  

How about transitions?
I keep mentioning this, but no one ever says anything in response to that. I think they are hugely important in the flow of the story. I recently read a feature by an "up and coming" writer from Argentina that had some really nice ones.

How can we help James make some of his transitions more "pro"?

OK, I'll think this over...although it has been awhile now since I read this.  I think I have some comments though.  I'll get back on tomorrow.