The script up for discussion this time is long time member and contributor to the boards James McClung's latest "Tis The Season".

Read it here then discuss the specifics of the script right here.

You can of course also post comments in the script thread.

happy reading everyone.  

Are we still going to do this? If so, can I copy and paste what I have before here or should I start from scratch again?

Gabe

Gabe,

Yes we are still doing this. I haven't had the time to finish the script yet because I've been reading the OWCs, but I hope others will join in as soon as they've satisfied their OWC reads.

This thread is for the discussion og the script, so go right ahead and post. A review should be posted in James's script thread though.

I'm glad you still doing this. I will too.  

I found the script to be funny in a dark humor type of way. There are some memorable scenes such as a chlorform scene between Dylan and Randall that I can still remember. You can tell that the two characters were really thought up well through their action and dialgoue. I also liked how the reader can see the arch forming in the story. I didn't have much complaints.

Thinking of it now, maybe James should have included a scene with the corporation as a physical pressence rather than just mentioned. Maybe a guy in a suit talking to Santa or Randall. That's it from complaints.

I really enjoyed it.

Gabe

I commented in the script thread, but thought I'd jump in here as well since the discussions are probably a little different.

I commented on how I noticed the lack of a traditional character arc here, where it stops just as the characters are beginning their descent into "redemption", for lack of a better term.  James has already addressed this in response to my column, but I'll go on record here as saying that I can certainly see where he's coming from.

What he's done is gone off the beaten path of tradition, just slightly, and in doing so has crafted a couple of characters that, believe it or not, come off as being quite a bit more realistic.  When you look at it in this way, I think it adds an entirely different element to things.  Yes, Randall and Dylan are essentially both socially retarded, and even though they got that way for somewhat different reasons, it gives them a "same, but different" type of bond.  "You're miserable, I'm miserable, and since we're stuck in this hole we may as well be miserable together."

Moving on to the structure of the story itself, I found this to be quite a bit outside of the norm as well.  Perhaps I missed something, but to me the first act ended around page 15 when Cringle tells Randall of his mission, and the third act picked up around page 80'ish with Randall going back to save Dylan.  That's a whole lot of Act 2.

Coincidentally, I found the end of the first act and the story hook to be the same incident.  Not sure if that was the intention or not, but I didn't feel that the story started moving until then.  I even went so far as to recommend James cut the opening with the teen suicide.  It just didn't offer that much to me, and since the story jumps forward a year not long after, it could easily be cut without any loss to the flow.

Just some stuff I thought I'd put out there for now, but once the discussion picks up I'm sure I'll be jumping back in.

OK, I just finished.  Not exactly sure how we're going to handle this, but I'll start out by giving some comments and responding to the few other comments we've already recieved.

First off, I want to say that this genre is definitely not my favorite.  I typically do not like comedies and dark, depressing comedies are even more difficult for me.  BUT, I think that this was pretty well put together, thought out, and succeeded in what it set out to do.

Dialogue was well done.  It flowed well between just about every character.  For me, it was a bit over the top in its profanity, and use of sexual slangs, but it was funny and worked for the most part.

I didn't think that the structure and transition was very good though.  It came off as a few long, dialogue heavy scenes, without much variance in settings, which for me, made it kinda slow and uneventful.  At times an "insert" was used to show where or when the scene was taking place, but this was kind of hit or miss.  The majority of the scene headings didn't give good information for passing time, or day or night, which hurt the believability for me.

A few have mentioned character arcs.  I usually don't like talking about these type of literary techniques, but I do agree that they need to be discussed here.  I think that some great opportunities were missed here in what happened and where the story went.  For instance, all along, I was thinking that the real story here was going to be that Dylan was actually going to "help" Randall through his troubles and issues, and that Cringle sent Randall for reasons other than what he stated.  It didn't turn out this way though and everything seemed so depressing that I left with a bad taste in my mouth.

Although the ending left us with "some hope" for our 2 characters, it didn't really resolve any of their issues or leave us with a good feeling.  Being a "Christmas" piece, I think a little uplifting message would have been much more effective, BUT, I will give James credit for not following any typical plotlines or happy Christmas cliches.

This brings me to my main complaint of the script.  I'm not sure what kind of audience it's going to appeal to.  It is funny, and even "cute" at times, but the bottom line is that it's very, very dark, very slow and uneventful, and doesn't have many interesting or beauitful settings.  I think it needed more back and forth between the North Pole and Conneticut.  Too much time was spent in Dylan's house, and nothing was really going on.

I also agree with Shelton that the initial scene needs to be either reworked or cut out.  I don't like the nameless character that never comes back into the story.  And I also don't like how 1 year passes.  I don't think it's necessary.

So all in all, I think this was a well written, aggressive attempt at straying way outside the standard lines of story and structure, but in the end winds up missing the mark because of the fact that nothing really comes to fruition, no one really seems changed for the better, and the overall feeling I got was not what I was hoping for.

These are my initial thoughts.

Quoted from Dreamscale I didn't think that the structure and transition was very good though.  It came off as a few long, dialogue heavy scenes, without much variance in settings, which for me, made it kinda slow and uneventful.  At times an "insert" was used to show where or when the scene was taking place, but this was kind of hit or miss.  The majority of the scene headings didn't give good information for passing time, or day or night, which hurt the believability for me.

This is something that crossed my mind during reading as well, but I sat back, tried to look at it in context, and worked out alright for me.

There's a considerable amount of time spent in Dylan's house in the middle of the script over a long period, and showing brief outside shots was an effective way to show passage of time, I think.  The Fade In/Fade out parts probably weren't entirely necessary, but moving outside briefly to establish Day/Night was fine with me.

I don't recall seeing any sluglines that didn't have Day or Night in them, but maybe I'm mistaken.

EDIT:  Actually looks like there are quite a few missing, mainly INT.  Guess I just overlooked it given they were inside, but I guess leaving those out puts the EXT establishing shots in a different light.

Would the fact that Dylan stays in the psych ward not be a good ending per say? He is getting help and can be with other people.

Randall has also learned something about himself: that he can be nice to people shown through his act of giving a present to Chloe.And he can save lives:  he saved Cringle and Dylan's life.

Which reminds me. Cringle should be a bit more developed. Not fully but probably show his descent towards taking his own life.  

Gabe

Yeah, I agree.  For me, it was just too little in the "happening" mode.  So much talk, and so little going on.  I don't have a problem with "talky" scripts at all, but the problem for me was that the vast majority of conversation was always between 2 characters and was always in the same place.  Lack of different settings was an issue for me.

In terms of passing time, I guess I just didn't quite get it.  Here's why.  I know that Randall was supposed to spend 1 week with Dylan, and I'm not sure if he did or didn't stay that long, but drinking the way he did (and Dylan not being a drinker), he'd be out of booze in most likely 1 day.  His buying a case of beer (and Dylan helping him drink it), again, would be done in 1 or 2 days, so passage of time didn't quite work for me, as they always seemed to be laying around on couches, watching TV. It was difficult for me to tell when and how much time was elapsing.

I'm glad there's some discussion going on about this script!!

I've only read the first 25 pages so far (been busy reading the OWCs).

Should we pick one area to discuss first? Plot maybe...

just a suggestion...  

The discussion so far has been more about character arcs and structure.

Ok, that's fine. Stick to it.
I'll join in, in a couple of days after I've finished reading...

"Yeah, I agree.  For me, it was just too little in the "happening" mode.  So much talk, and so little going on.  I don't have a problem with "talky" scripts at all, but the problem for me was that the vast majority of conversation was always between 2 characters and was always in the same place.  Lack of different settings was an issue for me. "

That's kind of good economically if this script ever wanted to be made. Clerks was made in a store and the majority of dialgoue is between 2 people. The same goes with Saw just that its in the bathroom. But the dialgoue moves the story along. If the dialgoue didn't, the story would not make much sense. James' dialgoue is good so I think his script can surivive on that aspect.

About the passage of time, didn't Randall quit before the week was up? He decided to give up on Dylan and leave. And then he got in touch with Cringle and saved his life.  Went back and saved Dylan. Nevertheless, I understand how difficult it is to actually keep track on time when reading material. I'm reading DarkTower and its really difficult. But I think James pulled it off with the camera directions. He should try more subtly but in all he did good.

Gabe  

Not sure about Clerks, but Saw was a completely different animal.  Although the majority of the movie may have been in that dungeon-like bathrom, there were many other scenes, characters, and action.

A few more things I wanted to say...as I continue to think about this script, there's 1 thing that keeps poping into my head, and that's that I feel like James missed out on several great opportunities.

The first is when Dylan and Randall are out and about getting booze.  The 2 interactions they have with people are both extremely negative.  I think it would have ben nice to throw a little light hearted humor in here, and change the mood a bit.

The second is when Cringle is contemplating suicide.  I think Randall and Cringle's interaction could have been handled better, and also could have given a more positive, uplifting message.

And third, and the biggest missed opportunity, is the end.  As I said in an earlier post, this was an opportunity to end things on a positive note...to leave a good tate in our mouths...to give a little Christmas cheer.  I understand that the whole script is jet black, but for me, I really wish there was a little diversity, and downright happiness.

Not much of a discussion going on in here.  I have tried adn posted multiple thoughts and the like.  No one seems to have any interest any longer.

What's the deal, people?