I think I commented briefly on transitions earlier.  It's been awhile now since I read this, but I do remember that I was not impressed with the transitions.

In regard to transitions, I'm talking about how the script moves from scene to scene, plot point A to plot point B, etc.

I think the transitions here are rather generic, and not well thought out.  Kind of like one scene ends, and the next one starts up.  Passage of time was also an issue with me in this script, and I would tend to group that with transitions.  Not much happened on screen, so when hours or days passed, I have to assume that just about nothing happened.

There was one transition that I liked and remember.  It had to do with Dylan and Randall making breakfast and Randall asks if he has any coffee.  The next scene starts up and they're drinking a cup of coffee.  That's how transitions should work (when you have the opportunity).

Let's get some other comments on tranistions...

Evening


I'll get to transition, but first I got build to my points (or just skip to second posts)


  Though there are many forms of comedy, comedy is at it’s best when it deals with a universal experience. It’s not always the case, surely something derives from the personal, but even that hangs on something that is scene as universal. I don’t how many people can relate to suicide, but it does deal with things like relationships, wanting to fit in, which are things I think people can relate too. Depends on the author, tough gig.

  I wrote a review to the story, which can be checked out back at ‘Tis The Season’, I’ll try to summarize some of it here, going into my points a little more. I’ve read threw all the reviews in the Comedy section, and here at the Script Club, so I think I’m caught up.

I think while the dialogue was good. The dialogue carried too much of the burden having to not only carry the story, but also the jokes. There isn’t much plot in the middle, the bulk of any story, sense this a comedy, you’ve also added another burden, which is why comedies are so difficult because you have to be funny too.

  Most comedy derives from colorful and exaggerated characters in sticky situations. The story has good characters, but because of its lack of plot doesn’t allow our characters to venture into wild adventures and instead remain in a simple house, nothing spectacular. I also found this strange because it’s a Christmas overtone to it, which I felt got lost after the beginning and picked up at the end. Even Randall remarks he for got it was Christmas. You have two options here a.) Putting a wild character in a normal world which you do when you put Randall in the North Pole, though he’s extreme he’s pretty normal, the North Pole isn’t b.) You can put a wild character in a normal world Randal can do this too he just extreme enough to cause enough to cause friction and laughs in the normal world, which is what makes him great character.

  But I feel that isn’t enough. And that Chloe, a wild character being from the North Pole and extremely nice would cause a lot of laughs in the normal world. This also adds what’s lacking by adding a little more opposition; plot comes from opposition, two characters or more creating and hashing out planes to reach the goal. Speaking of the goal it’s too vague, how does one know he’s reached goal when the goal is to prevent suicide. Though it’s possible to pull of, ala one of the greatest movies of all time “It’s A wonderful Life”, but suicide was neither the goal nor where the opposition derived from. I think the key opposition here isn’t the actually outcome, but between methods, Randall method and Chloe’s method. Some people mentioned a switch where Dylan helps Randall but the story would really turn on it’s head the pressure of dealing with Randall, Dylan and real world depression puts Chloe into a depression.


Continued....

Transition


  I think transition of scene works best when characters are entering a scene, learns something he/she didn’t know. And in that same scene or the next scene is what they do about it. Now you can crosscut between different characters. It’s the writer’s decision to show how this new information is presented and who gets it. I agree with Dreamscale that the transition could have been better, again because of lack of plot. Randall and Dylan gather little information, therefore all of the action they do lacks motive. And it’s not that it has to be some big plot point every time, but it should force the characters to act on it, motive. It also shouldn’t be repetitive, like drinking and running out of beer, unless each time they learn something different. There’s a difference between repetitiveness and escalation of the same conflict.


  Again I point to the beginning. Now, I don’t see the point of the first suicide after it became apparent that it was for nothing. At first I thought this was the boy that needed help, like George Bailey. How this does work is because after that we need to get to a character that discovers this information, and does something about it we go to Chloe who finds out, this is when he learn about Christmas Spirit dropping, and the scenes that follow are appropriate because we see what she does about goes to Cringle, though the suicide is no longer new to us, it’s new to this character how will the react. But we do continue getting new info about character, Cringle’s quite a character. I think it would have been appropriate to show a scene with corporate who’s putting the pressure on Cringle, this is a perfect time to present the conflict between the two and establish that corporate is the behind the scene opponent, and we get there decision which is to come down on Cringle, providing motive.


  Maybe corporate reveals something to Cringle that the business has been split 51/49 in ownership and the contract stipulate that if the spirit falls than 2% of that control goes to corporate to get sales or whatever back up. Than we can introduce to Randall and we see how interesting he is where wondering what he has to do with anything. Cringle decision after the revelation is to get Randall to save Christmas spirit, you already have this scene, but I think that the parts with corporate are missing. And based on what we’ve scene of Randall prior to him getting this “new” information for him, we the audience gets the suspense of waiting to see what happens because we know that Randall is a bizarre character about to go on this adventure.

  The key here is this constant of revelation and decision. The dialogue about the family and such derives out of revelations and discussion about what to do and why and this is usually where characters come into conflict and plan hidden or direct attack, which creates more revelation (punch – counter-punch) and that doesn’t necessarily mean a physical one.

  I mean there’s the scene with the mailman, and as some mentioned how did he know Randal was there. It’s odd to me because you gave the audience something to complain about for no reward because the mailman doesn’t offer anything. Randall gets the package and that’s it. I don’t even think nothing was in it. Like news that Cringle is going insane.

  Because by story end it seemed out of the blue to me that Cringle would want to kill himself. I mean I can make an educated guess, but it won’t be based off of anything I saw on the screen because we don’t see him except in the beginning and the end.

Hey Bee, nice posts!  I agree with what you're saying.  Wish we could get some more folks to add their thoughts here as well.

I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head in saying that one of the big problems here is lack of plot...and action.  Also, I feel lack of sub plots is a big culprit for teh slow, rather boring flow and feel.  Without "other things" going on, it's difficult to give smooth transactions.

But, as i said earlier, the one transition that worked for me (with the coffee scene), worked because it showed what had just taken place, without boring us with actually showing what tookm place (making coffee).

As writers, we get to show exactly what we want in our 1 1/2 - 2 hours of screen time.  Obviously, alot goes on that isn't shown, and when the writer can let the viewers in on what has taken place off screen, it's effective.  I didn't see alot of examples of this happening.

I feel more back and forth between the North Pole and the main setting of CT would make this move much better.  It could also offer more effective transition possibilities as well as build on the sub plots of Choe, Cringle, and even the under developed "corporation entity".

Sorry for having been absent here.

BLB,
You're post was excellent!

I think most of us agree that there could've been more plot. It also seems that some enjoyed this and some did not. We all agreed too (I think) that comedy is tricky to write. Dark comedy even trickier.

Do we want to continue discussing this script or do we want to move on to another one or let this end?

I don't know what else I have to say about this one, but I'm game for another one if a few of you guys are too.

Pia, I don't want to get you mad again, but you're the one who suggested that we move onto discuss transtitions, yet you never said a single thing about them.

No one else seems to have any interest here either (other than Bee), so it looks like this is now officially a dead horse.

James is yet to chime in.  Once he does, the conversation should pick up a little bit again, but I do think it's time to start looking for the "Script Club III" script.

Sounds good.  How can we get James to post his comments, so we can get this thing moving again?

Dreamscale,

Yes, I did bring that up, because some people write really good ones that make the story flow visually and seamlessly from scene to scene. Then someone threw away my paper copy of the script that had my marks on it and to be honest, it's been a while since I read it that I don't have it that fresh in my head. I've been busy with other stuff too, but I can try to take a look again while at work tomorrow.

My guess is that James might be busy at the moment getting ready for school to start again.

..and what the hell do you mean about me getting mad?? I never get mad! Ever! Not very often at all. In fact I haven't been mad since this morning, but that was understandable. My cat threw up on the window sill... and my daughter refused to come over and clean it up!  

Here I am.

I was waiting for this thing to peter out before putting in my two cents. Better people get to keep their own opinions and not be swayed by writers explaining context until the end. That's how I understood this Script Club to work anyway. If that be the case, I agree.

Anyway, it would appear the main issues with the script would be lack of plot, action, transitions/passage of time, and a subjective tone.

The tone is the easiest to explain so I suppose I'll start with that. The implication of almost all Christmas movies (including Bad Santa) is that there's something that comes with Christmas that brings out good will in everybody, even if there was never any good will to exist in the first place. This is complete and utter bullshit. I wanted to do something different, in that any changes in attitude within the characters came from actions or realizations they, themselves, experienced, not just because "it's Christmas." Again, bullshit.

Dreamscale, you've mentioned a few times I should lighten things up a bit here, so as not to leave a bad taste in one's mouth. I'm thinking about expanding Chloe's role. I've actually met people like her before, who are just so positive in their outlook that they never let anything get them down. She's the "light" in the story, so to speak. As for other instances of light moments, it has to come from the characters or I won't have it. Toning down darker elements is one thing but adding in nicities is something else. Coincidentally, I wrote a new ending in which Dylan meets a girl at the psych ward. I chucked it. It didn't work. In the end, it's what works for the script.

I am sorry you didn't like it though. It is supposed to be pretty repugnant and I really pushed myself in not holding back the more serious dramatic elements of the story. It is what it is. Not for everyone, I suppose. I do hope you'll check out my next script though. I am planning a new comedy to serve as something of a sister piece to this one. It's going to have its cynicism and gross moments, like this, but in terms of tone, themes and subject matter, it's going to be the polar opposite of Tis The Season (no pun intended).

You're funny!  Agreed that when cats throw up, it's not the best thing that can happen.  I keep telling mine that if they're going to be sick, just do it on tile, as apposed to carpet...much easier clean up.  I think they're beginning to understand the English language.

At this point, I wouldn't worry about commenting anymore on this.  No one else seems to have much to say, so maybe we should move on, like Shelton said.  Let's wait and see what James has to say, and go from there.

Hi folks, This is a really great thread and a great idea.

I would like to take part in the next one if that is okay Pia? Probably won't get the time to read 'Tis the Season' for the next couple of days. But am away next weekend and as usual will be printing off a couple of features for the plane. If you have any ideas on the next one by then then please let me know what to read. I can really see this being useful as a learning exercise.

Cheers

As for the rest (transition, lack of plot/action/North Pole nonsense), I'm going to have to work on some things. I rewrote Randall and Dylan's first scene in the kitchen so that both characters are more antagonistic and get on each other's nerves a lot more (something I plan to continue). I think I can make a plot around Randall wanting desperately to get out of the program. I might have him calling up Cringle and Chloe for advice so as to expand that part of the story. Also, I think I can make the transition from the two characters not getting along to respecting each other a little smoother and gradual.

As for passage of time, I'm also working on that. Not sure how at the moment though.

Overall, I think you guys have made a lot of good points and helpful comments. So much so, in fact, that I'm kinda overwhelmed. The most frustrating (though not at all bad) advice I get is that there's a bunch of directions I can go in or so many things to explore. Usually when that happens, I haven't a clue where to begin (as is the case now). It's a lot easier when there's stuff in a script that flat out sucks and should be chucked/reworked (or otherwise entail cutting down on the script). With that said, it'll be a while before I do a rewrite.

Anyway, I hoped everyone liked the script, at least somewhat. I knew the idea was kind of a gamble from the start and comedy's not my thing. With my other comedy scripts, I tried all sorts of different styles on comedy. Here, I tried to be more focused and do something a little closer to my personal taste. Unfortunately, dark comedy/satire is a little esoteric.

Thanks a lot to everyone who read and commented. I'll try to get some return reads done as soon as I can but I'm already swamped with those at the moment. Still, the comments have been very helpful so far and will help not only with this one but also my next comedy, which falls into the absolute hardest subgenre anyone can write. Both scripts are going to need a lot of work.

Thanks again to everyone who read. I think I'm starting to like this idea. I'll see if I can't get involved in the next Script Club.

Hey James, glad this helped a bit.  I was worried that we didn't really get much back and forth going, and thought that overall, we didn't really give you alot to work with, but I guess I was wrong.

As for your comments, I think you're on to something in getting some back and forth conversation going with Randall and Chloe and Cringle.  You could cut  in and out of the North Pole during the phone conversation and that would add alot in terms of additional sub plotting, as well as just some different scenery.  As it is now, it's just too much in one setting, which tends to really slow things down.

Best to ya in your rewrites!

Decisions, decisions, decisions thorns in our sides. I do like the additions you plan on making with Randall wanting and creating a plan to get out of the program and Cringle and Chloe in the middle of the script.

Anytime someones goes for comedy they're taking a chance, so bravo. Nothing wrong with testing the waters espically with comedy because you definitely have to find your comedic niche in that.

As for Script Club III, we've already done a comdey and believe script club I was a horror, so we're probably likely to go to a different genre before we start recycling to these.

I'm not familiar with who deserves what as far as reviews go, but I'm going to look over some premise that sound promising and get back to you guys, unless were continuing with 'Tis the Season.'