I think it should be considered that the very purpose of a film is not to deal with the probable. Probable is the same as everyday, and who wants to see that? People see film to see a snapshot of something different, something interesting. Not something probable.

I actually had more of a problem with how the chose Steve, or even why they were doing this. As clubbers, their purpose is to get laid. Not to get some guy they don't know laid. So I think that should be set up better.

Maybe Flash looks at him and says "Ah, reminds me of me. Before I got some game. Perfected my chat."

Maybe there's some kind of bet between Flash and the other guy.

Probable behavior is not the issue. Character motivation is. Imagine if Flash sees Steve, and mentions that's how he used to be. Couldn't land a broad because he had no chat.  He bets the other guy he could teach Steve the necessary game. Steve says "what kind of chicks can I get with that line?" Flashes reply: "Easy chicks, the kind you only keep for a night." See the irony developing?

Also, if Steve was a good looking guy, this doesn't work. First of all, a good looking guy scoring a hottie? Yawn. That's the norm. But more important, a good looking guy doesn't need a line, certainly not someone else's.

Irony is at the heart of this story, on more than one level. For that we need loser-like guys, a hot chick, and shallow people. With tweaking, and certainly some more entertaining dialogue, you something.

OK, Kevin, not sure why you feel like arguing with me about stuff that doesn't matter, but since football doesn't start for a few hours and my back is still out, I'll play along.

Your misinterpreting what I'm saying...probably on purpose, but nonetheless, misinterpreting it.

I made a single comment about probability, yet you chose to focus on it.  The things I said were improbable, are simply that, and it's not the ho-hum normality kind of probability I'm referring to.

It's extremely unlikely that a normal chick can overcome some sort of killer or creature, right?  Yet, it happens and needs to happen in every single horror movie ever made (almost).

The list of acceptable and even necessary improbable things goes on and on, and there's nothing wrong with them whatsoever.

This is a completely different animal I'm referring to here, though, isn't it?  A hot married chick dancing with a nerdy douche a single time, early in the night, at the same place her A-Hole hubby is with his buds, getting so incredibly horny (for some unknown reason) that she tells him she swallows, but then not following up on any of it, anyways.  Does that really work for you?  And if it does, what does it do for you?

I don't mean to attack Steve, his script, or his writing, but I will definitely defend my opinion and comments, especially when they 100% correct.

I just don't get it.

Hey Kev, Jeff,

It’s gone two in the morning here so forgive the sloppiness; I’ve been drinking red wine and watching Snakes on a Plane, horrible movie BTW.

First of all Jeff, do not feel guilty, I meant it humorous and I for one love your honest feedback, it’s sometimes the only way to learn. The comma’s after the names I did realise after I’d posted but what can you do, it’s an amateur error but guess what, I’m amateur! Actually I’m probably lower than an amateur at the moment; call me a beginner with a lot to learn to become an amateur.

Kevin,

We have already spoken on many occasions so you know why feelings and how I respect you as a writer so thank you again for jumping in and giving your views.

Overall the story was about a married man who cheated on his wife and thought he was the top dog. He then found out his wife was cheating on him! For Flash it’s unbelievable, he’s too attractive, handsome and smug to believe this could happen to him. Steve was there to add some extra spice to this revelation, he’s ugly and totally opposite of Flash. A prank gone wrong if you like. It was a simple tale to craft some writing technique and on the whole I was pretty happy about it, a couple of things bothered me afterwards, I’m not perfect by any stretch but I do believe in perfection in my work so thank you to both for pointing out things to make it better as a whole and you were both right in what you had to say.

Jeff,

Just a couple of points, the legal age in the U.K and Australia is eighteen to serve alcohol maybe even sixteen if it’s a restaurant.

I will pm you my email address so you can E-Mail me the Unforgettable script if you don’t mind? I would love to give it a read.

Thanks again guys for both your feedback and comments.

I have to go to bed now, I’m pretty tired and I have a feeling this will look horrible in the morning but let’s see.

Have a good one.

Steve.

I'm impressed...


...if it was 2am in the morning my writing would make no sense. Kudos!

Steve, the legal serving age in Massachusetts is also 18. I had a couple of 19 yr old girls over the years work at my place. So perfectly plausible.

I was just suggesting possible ways to go. If Steve uses a line given to him by Flash to pick up Flash's wife, that would be pretty cool irony. Irony is a very powerful tool in story. Sometimes things like that emerge after your first draft. We had a long thread discussion on theme this summer. When I researched it this summer, I found that many famous writers found that theme did not emerge until after the first draft. When it becomes apparent at that point, it gets focused in on the rewrites. Good to have options like that, anyway.

Hi Steve.

Overall I thought this was a good effort, especially as you say it's your first script. I'm in the early stages of writing myself so I get what you mean when you say it was a writing exercise. So far I've only written one script, for an OWC, which is a hugely valuable learning experience and would definitely recommend you take part in one.

Anyway, back to the script. Although I could see the punchline coming, I still loved it because Flash got what was coming. It's already been pointed out that he's a fine character, and I'd say that's because you've written him well. I've known guys like him so can see him clearly. Also I loved when he called Carly sweetheart, then love, and when she calls him on it he switches to darling. Nice.

I liked the fact he had the phone call and told her he was going one place so he could go cheat in the other. This to me meant that when his wife is in the club she was actually not calling to meet him, but to avoid him, so she could cheat too. He's not as cool as he thinks.

While on the subject of the phone call, I'm not sure if there's an official rule for them, but I tend to go with '...' instead of a parenthetical. That may just be because I don't like them though, I feel like they clog the page. Also when I write dialogue I don't like it to start on one page and finish on another. Again not sure if it really matters, but I like the discipline of keeping it on the same page. You do it twice, from page 1-2 and from 5-6. Certainly on page one it can be avoided, as a few lines up you have 'He looks to Michael, raises his eyebrows and shakes his head.'  The word 'head' is what (thanks to Dreamscale in the OWC) I learnt is an orphan. One word alone on a line that can be avoided. Replace 'and' with a comma. Done.

I think a lot of my other thoughts have been addressed already, but I really feel Michael needs a bit more to him, especially if you do go on to re-write. Although it's gone down well I wasn't too keen on the mingers line. I'm English so I've heard the word plenty of times and it does fit, but I'd of preferred him to say something along the lines of 'It's like revenge of the swamp donkeys, part eight in here tonight'. I don't know where it came from but I amused myself while writing it, and I feel that it would give him a little more personality. Probably just me though.

Well, I'm sure I've bored you enough now.

Cheers.

Hey Arty, (Hope you don't mind me calling you that?)

I haven't seen you around so thank you for the kind comments. I agree with you about having the dialogue over two pages, I think it looks messy and will look to avoid in the future if possible. The "beats" or parenthetical in the phone conversion I don't mind as long as it's not excessive but i understand where you are coming from. We all have our quirks and preferences don't we.

I liked the mingers line and I thought it gave it a British charm because it's a line I used to use as a eighteen year old clubber, when I thought I was the ladies man.

Your line is pretty funny, I may steal it for a future project if you don't mind?

Thanks again for some insightful comments Arty, if you could give me the title of your OWC script, I'd love to give a read over and return the favor.

Cheers.

Steve

Hey man.

You may call me whatever you like, not too keen on stupid though. My actual real life name is Roy, though people do call me Arty as it's my initials... R.T. Genius, huh?

Your script does have a very British feel, and the mingers line is something me and my friends used to say too. I think the swamp donkey thing came to me because we used to try and one-up each other with either cruder or funnier ways to say the same thing. And I certainly don't mind if you steal it. Having liked it myself I planned to put it in the feature I'm trying to write, but I'll just make it part seven or something instead. Would be amusing to see it pop up in random scripts over time though. But, maybe thats just me.

As for reviewing my OWC is it cool if I ask you not to? It's pretty bad and I had over twenty reviews due to the fact it was an OWC, so I know  where I can improve it. Like you've said with this one, it was more of an exercise for me, and I'm not too sure whether I will go back to it at some point. I have recently submitted a short here, hopefully it will go up in the next few weeks or so, so can I be cheeky and ask you to keep your eyes peeled for that one instead?

Anyways keep on truckin.

Roy/Arty/Whatever.

Hey stupid,(mean Roy)

No worries, I will definitely keep an eye out for your new short script but if I miss it for any reason. You make sure you pm me and give me a kick up the ass.

BTW, love Newquay. Went there for a lad’s holiday a few years back and had a great time!

Cheers, Roy.

Steve.

Steve I read it first and then went to the replies... I noticed you missed 6734 commas and that was just the 1st line, from there it went downhill

I understand the whole language, being originally from ireland.. "Minger"
I did enjoy it and yes i guessed it was his wife at the end and the story was a little weak, which everyone has pointed out.
I liked the fact you hid the chat up line, im guessing it was probably some really corney British line, like "oohh you have lovely bloomers" from the old "Carry on" movies... Where am I going with this..I forgot.... I figured so much has been said in the last 37 replies for a 7 page script, that even your replies are repeating themselves
I do have one pet peeve though which hasn`t been mentioned..... I hate (beat)! IMO It`s usually best not to instuct an actor when to pause... If you have to, find a more descriptive word or describe a small action,gesture, or facial expression that accomplishes the same purpose, but which also adds a characterization.
e.g.    
Gordon    
You got the flash
(beat)
Hey baby

Gordon
You got the flash
(with a smug grin)
Hey baby

Adds a little character.

Good luck, it looks like you have a great sense of humour too, or sorry humor(for Americans)

Mark

Steve,

I commend you for putting a script up for review and for participating as a reader.

For the most part, “The Chat Up Line” is predictable, the characters are as expected and the dialogue is sometimes mechanical.  Similar to most writers’ first scripts.  Nothing wrong with that; you’ve jump-started your writing career. Congrats.

On the plus, aside from the missing commas, you handle most of the formatting well.  And you’ll learn more as you go.

Your opening scene introduces the 2 main characters, establishes that Gordon is married, that he cheats on his wife and lacks charm.
I notice there no distinct physical description of Gordon: facial features, body type, etc.  Not even sure he has good looks.

I think Gordon suffers from low self-esteem, which I think prompts him to act the way he does.

The irony is that Gordon isn’t clever.  He can’t finesse his way past a bouncer, and comes off crude, rude and arrogant with a young bartender.  He has absolutely no killer line(s).
I'm fine with this.

Because he’s a cheater, I would think he would be especially aware of phone callers (i.e. Miranda) — with most phones, caller ID is visible.
The wedding ring removal scene doesn’t work.  Seems backwards.  What’s its purpose?

Gordon’s conversation with Miranda is a bit too on the nose, for my liking.     Find ways to spin the predictable. And use conversation to give information in an organic way, while helping to move the story forward.

Miranda tells Gordon that she is “coming out after all”?  It’s kind of a clever line for later, as in “No More Secrets.” But it clogs your story.
Once you establish that Miranda is coming to the club, ANY CLUB, that thought is planted in our minds. Most will overlook or forget the important detail you were going for — Quakers Club, not Time.

Show the TIME NIGHTCLUB sign. Establish visual location in the first sentence, as the clubbers line up.

              Question:   Is Quakers a club?
If so, why would Gordon tell his wife he is going to a club — and without her?  I thought he was trying to be discreet.     In most stories, cheating characters tell their spouses they are working late.  That’s a cliché, but there’s a reason it’s used.  Your challenge is to come up with a “working late-type" excuse in a clever way.

             Question 2 :  Does Gordon go clubbing regularly?  He doesn’t act like it.

Your story needs Michael to work better as a gap filler, a sounding board or the voice of reason.

I think Gordon, not Michael, should say, “There’s some real mingers in here.”  That's in character with Gordy.

The Steve scenes need work.
He’s awkward and obviously striking out with the mingers.  He might be ignored, but should not laughed at.
Steve is a greasy pudge. He has just been dissed by the ladies, so he’s peeved.  Or he feels sorry for himself.  However, he has pride.
He won’t admit to “trying to pull the birds.”
When G and M call out his style, maybe he stands up for himself. Man to man, to the point: “Thanks for the beer, mate. But I don't shag blokes.”
Give him an attitude. Steve is too bland, too easy.

When G and M say they want to “help” him, Steve has got to ask ‘what’s in it for you?’ or ‘what’re you selling?’
Keep his suspicions up.
Make Gordon have to prove himself.  He hasn’t approached a woman all night.

When Gordon says, “We do [use the chat up line]. All the time.”  
Steve might counter:  “Wow.  Sign me up.”


I don’t mind that we never know the Secret line, because whatever it is will be a Disappointment.  It works best as a MacGuffin.

Another direction —
When questioned about the chat up line (which at this point we know doesn't exist), it might be fun for Gordon to tell Michael: “I made up a perfectly forgettable  line.  Something like… well, whatever. Long forgotten now.”

And then when the line works, and the whole swallowing issue comes to light, I can see Gordon becoming ill. Runs to the loo.

Michael asks Steve:
“What did you say to Miranda?”
Steve (winking): “It's our secret.”

_______
Backtracking:

The whole wife thing showing up at the club seemed awkwardly handled.  It takes Gordon and Michael a good while to recognize Miranda. If she is that hot, i would think they'd have their antennas up.  Afterall, the club is filled with mingers.
Maybe in the phone conversation with Miranda, she tells Gordon that she is going out with an old girlfriend.
Then shows up at the Time with this friend, another killer babe.

To avoid some of the initial awkwardness, maybe Steve is told to try the chat up line on any bird of his choosing.  Then he disappears in the crowd.

This will buy time as to why the guys don't notice Miranda.  Just a thought.

In closing, the story has some potential as a rewrite.  Work to sidestep the cliches, but be careful of getting too convoluted.
I like the idea of the "secret" line. Maybe this is the thread.  Foreshadow in conversation between Gordon and Michael.  Outside of the club, while waiting.  Keep their conversation on women. What Gordon and Michael like, their dislikes; they joke about awful "chat up" lines.
Gordon is the conquest king. Michael is the admirer of Gordon, the conquest king.
Establish some idiosyncrasies.

The final irony could be that Gordon came up with the perfect chat up line as a gag on Steve, but that it actually worked.

Anyway, good job, Steve. There is a lot to learn, but you seem willing.

Abe

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the feedback; we’ve already spoken in a pm so I won’t go into much detail. I know you hate “beat” you’ve made that very clear.

Abe,

I have to thank you for the clear and insightful comments you have left, it means a lot to me that you would go into such detail. I wasn’t going to comment again on this short but after reading your feedback, I felt that the least you deserved is acknowledgment that I had taken your advice into account.

I apologise for not going into more depth with your individual comments but I want you to know that you have made some excellent suggestions and tips which will not only help me with the rewrite of this short but with future projects as well.

Please feel free to pm or direct me to anything of yours that you would like feedback or opinion of and I will be more than happy to return the read.

Thanks again guys, all feedback is good feedback!

Steve

Ha!  Love the punchline here!  I think this could be a really funny and filmable short but IMO it REALLY needs a trim.

The set up with Michael and Gordon goes pretty long.  And I think we need to know that Gordon's marriage is in trouble.  I wasn't sure who Miranda was...thought maybe it was his wife but wasn't sure.  To speed it up instead of a drawn out phone call maybe he gets a text, scans it and tells Michael that she's coming.  

Carly plays too big of a part with really nothing to add to your story except to show that the guys are jerky but we get that without her help.

Pgs. 2 thru 6 don't do much to push your story forward,  A lot of talking but we don't learn anything new.  

I do really like the idea.  It needs a better set up though.  The plot was vague.  the title is "The Chat Up Line" but we don't really get to that until somwhere in the middle.  Your opening makes it seem like it's more about Gordon cheating on Miranda which we don't see him do.  His only real focus is on Steve.  You just need to focus on your plot.  And I wasn't sure if the chat up line was something Gordon actually uses or was he just having fun at Steve's expense?  

I hope you rewrite this.  It's a very funny concept.  

Hei Steve.
You said you don't have experience and wrote this. I imagine what would you come up with experienced. Very nice story, but seems more like of a scene from a feature lenth comedy then independent short. IMO. I think you could make out of it a comedy. The story is good, so to say about the writing. Easy read. Hope to see more of your work.


Jahongir!

Marnie,

Thank you for the read and giving some positive feedback. I agree with you about plot, something I need to learn as a new writer is a story’s structure. Rewrite it? I’m not sure yet but, Flash may return one day I think. Cheers.

Jahongir,

Thanks for the read buddy and I’m happy you enjoyed it, also glad it was a easy read for you which is always nice to hear.

Thanks again guys, much appreciated. Cheers

Steve