Scripts of the April 2019 OWC

The Scripts of the April 2019 OWC

Theme: Vehicular Suspense
Genre: Horror
Challenge: The majority of your screenplay must heavily feature some sort of vehicle AND have at least one sequence of prolonged suspense. But that's not all. This OWC has a twist. Gore is to be kept to a minimum. Put readers on the edge of their seat with suspense, don't shock them with disturbing gore.

Gut Shot by Dick Icecorns - A man carjacked, shot and left for dead thirty years earlier takes possession of a man traveling the same desert road in the same make and model Corvette Stingray.  12 pages - pdf format

Drank by Anonymous - Kate who awaken tied up in a barn after drinking too much at a party, has no other choice but to play an evil game to save her three best friends. - pdf format

Reap What You Sow by A Simple Farmer - Upon returning to her childhood home, a young woman recalls memories from her past. A past in which monsters were very real. 12 pages - pdf format

The Encounter by Loaned Woes - A man encounters something strange in the woods. 5 pages - pdf format

The Stowaway by Nacho Poncharelo - Making a routine delivery across the Mexican border, a loudmouthed trucker discovers something terrifying has hitched along for the ride. 12 pages - pdf format

Sea-Level Threat by Terrence Parker - Two Navy seals trapped in a neutralized submarine at the bottom of the ocean must work together to reunite with the rest of the soldiers. 7 pages - pdf format

Driving The Relm by Leäf Sensnør Fjörd - The new owner of the latest self-driving car gets the ride of his life. Literally! 12 pages - pdf format

The Libertine by Poe Lovecraft - After purchasing some slaves, sailors begin disappearing on the journey home. Is it just plain, bad luck or is there something evil aboard? 8 pages - pdf format

Ganglers by Kruger Candy - A jaded correction officer transporting a busload of restrained inmates must choose whether to defend the prisoners she despises when they are attacked by creatures with a twisted sense of justice. 12 pages - pdf format

Beyond the Sea by Delta Weanmyth - Howard ventures out to sea to look for his sister after he discovers a survivor from her boat's wreckage. What he finds out there is something far worse… 11 pages - pdf format

I Dream Of The Devil by D - On a rainy night, two men meet to discuss a peculiar, recurring dream. 5 pages - pdf format

Remote Control by The Dog Down the Street Who Won't Stop Barking, OMG, Shut Up Already - A mother gets a mysterious visit on her missing son's birthday. 5 pages - pdf format

Diversion Down Elder Tree Lane by *Insert Witty Name* - A father and son with a strained relationship cross path with a malevolent tree on their way to a special visit. 11 pages - pdf format

First Responders by George - Emergency services always answer the call, but they aren't always prepared for what they encounter. 10 pages - pdf format

The Woodsman by James Jay - When a cheating hubby needs a his wife to disappear he doesn't bank on her rescue of a small Woodsmans child.  - pdf format

It's Coming by László Görög - The crew of a subway tunnel digging machine unearth something that was never meant to see the light of day again. 12 pages - pdf format

El Camino Infierno (Hell) by ? - Two brothers must escape town as unknown forces destroy everything in site. 12 pages - pdf format

The Furnace Of War by A.N.Other - A WW2 bomber crew face a new kind of enemy over the skies of Germany, 12 pages - pdf format

Kármán Line by Ward Rhoj - On their way to service a broken satellite in geosynchronous orbit, four astronauts experience something they can’t explain and will never forget. 12 pages - pdf format

Gondolier by Gilbert Sullivan - A power engineer must fight for his life to get the job done. 10 pages - pdf format

A Pinch by ---- - Alcohol, tobacco and firearms. What could go wrong? 8 pages - pdf format

Trebizond by Mac Dirkunturns - A CEO on vacation with his family takes a trip in his RV to a ghost mining town in the Mojave Desert only to disturb the guardian spirit of the town and suffer the consequences. 12 pages - pdf format

Protocol 25 by Menhaden Ainn and Nick Linkoven - An injured woman finds herself trapped in an ambulance with the guy she injured who's also a serial killer. 7 pages - pdf format

The Gathering by Dale Creams - Something has arrived with a storm outside Santa Fe, New Mexico, and it brings a gift to mankind that will keep on giving.  11 pages - pdf format

Belgian Spring by Anonymous - Escaping the invading German army during the Battle of the Bulge, a small infantry company must evacuate civilians to safety in the midst of snipers and V-1 buzz-bombs. 12 pages - pdf format

Tillinghaust 1944 by William Dyer - Five lost soldiers curious about an abandoned tank, investigate the surrounding desolate, remote village which does not exist on any map. 12 pages - pdf format

Wow, a lot more than I was actually expecting. Congrats everyone that got one up. Let's hope for about 26 reads on each script.

Well done Zack and Don

YEEHAW!!!!!

As always, thanks to The...and our Don! You dam man!

Amazingly fast posting. Looking forward to all.

Holy crap, Don's on the ball! And a great turnout!

The idea I was trying to make work was this group of hikers comes across a crash site in the woods. There they find skeletons of some sort of animal, deer or elk or something. Nearby, they find a grand, very old and ornate sleigh, broken and overgrown. And a makeshift grave carved with the words "Here Lies Santa Claus".

The suspense was going to come from the thing that's out there, the thing that killed Santa and the reindeer. And if it wasn't for the minimal gore thing, I would have had Santa crash and witnesses come to investigate only to find the carnage, and Krampus or something is behind it.

I think this time around I'll read from the top down. Hopefully there is a good mix of quality throughout. I'm still on phone internet for a few days so I might have to come back to the first few with more detailed notes when I'm back in front of a computer.

Quoted from ReneC

Rene, my friend...

So happy you shelved this idea. In all seriousness.

Warren may say he loves the idea. HA!!

I am not posting the 1st review...I refuse!!!

Quoted from Dreamscale

I am not posting the 1st review...I refuse!!!

Come on, you know you want to!

Quoted from Dreamscale

Rene, my friend...

So happy you shelved this idea. In all seriousness.

Warren may say he loves the idea. HA!!

Yeah...weird ideas excite me sometimes. It never turns out well. :B

Quoted from Warren

Come on, you know you want to!

Sure I do, but I will not!!!

Oh God...no...

I've started at least 7 scripts...and...I'm definitely not commenting yet!!!!

Quoted from Dreamscale

Oh God...no...

I've started at least 7 scripts...and...I'm definitely not commenting yet!!!!

I bet one of those I mine. I foresee an absolute shredding from you.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Sure I do, but I will not!!!

I've broken my reading order and gone with a short one to start. Go for your life Jeff.

A lot more than I was expecting.

See, this is what happens when I go out for a while.

Scripts posted so fast.

Thanks, Don!
Thanks, Zack!

I'm out btw, (no entry) but I will read as many as possible.

What's the info on scoring or not scoring, Zack??
Usually it's mentioned in the challenge preamble. I don't care for it myself and leave it to the final vote but am just wondering.

Wow they went up fast and more than I expected. I'm busy for most of today but I will try to read and review them all, it just may take me a few days to get through them.

I've started reading. I plan on getting through quite a few over the next three days.

Thanks, Don. Great work.

Am at work now and out Easter Sunday but will read them all after that

Wow, great turnout!

Looking forward to reading these over the next few days.

Pia - hope you are okay after the storm.

Wow.
That as fast.
But it probably had to do with the holiday and all.
I wonder if one of the scripts will have the Killer Bunnyman....

The best part of waking up is OWC scripts in my cup. :D

Thanks for getting all these up, Don. And thanks to all to entered this time around.

Let the horror begin! ;D

I'm nervous, my script is up with only 10 views and no comments :-/

Quoted from ChrisV

I'm nervous, my script is up with only 10 views and no comments :-/

Don't sweat it. You'll get reads. :) Just make sure you read and review as many as you can.

Reiterating Zack's advice, Chris. Rest assured you'll get reads and reviews.

Couldn't get on to SS for hours this morning and with an OWC, well, let's just say I was having withdrawals.
Hope I didn't miss anything.

Now, to catch up. :)

Apologies to JEStaats for my stupid weinermobile joke. I seriously didn't mean to ruin an idea of yours.

Too bad, because I would have liked to read your take.

Just know, lesson learned here. I won't make those kind of jokes in the future. I was playing around, and it cost you time, effort and an idea.

My bad.

Okay finally back in front of a computer with reliable internet (oh wait, it is Australian internet, I take that back).

Time to make a bit of a dent in these scripts.

I've provided feedback on 16 , so far. I think I have 11 to go.

Easter Weekend here in the States, so not too surprised at the low amount of reads and views. Just hope it picks up, but nice to see some new peeps reviewing!

Sorry for my recent absence. I picked up a couple of shifts at work. :P

I'll be diving into these soon.

Quoted from Zack

Sorry for my recent absence. I picked up a couple of shifts at work. :P

I'll be diving into these soon.

Yeah...read mine!

Read Stevie's!

Read...ah fuck it...just read, my brother!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Easter weekend with young kids means I've been away from the computer all weekend. I've started though, I'll do more through the week.

Ahhh, didn't get chance to write one in the end, but will definitely be reading as many as I can.

Well done to everyone who got one in.

Quoted from Andrew

Ahhh, didn't get chance to write one in the end, but will definitely be reading as many as I can.

Well done to everyone who got one in.

Andrew!!!! WTF???? Damn, bro, I thought you were in!

READ...READ...READ!!!!!

Happy Easter to everyone!!!

Quoted from Dreamscale

Andrew!!!! WTF???? Damn, bro, I thought you were in!

READ...READ...READ!!!!!

Happy Easter to everyone!!!

Yeah, sorry, I wanted to get in!

I'll try and make up for it with reads :)

Just a reminder to any first timer OWC participants. This is an anonymous challenge, please don't out yourself until after the votes are cast, and even then, just wait for the announcement I say.

I was contacted by a participant, it wont alter my voting in any way.

EDIT: Never mind I see he outed himself on the script. Does a mod want to jump in??

Yep, done!
...

Reiterating what Warren said.

All Newbs:

In the true spirit of the OWC, the challenge is anonymous.

Do not reveal publicly what script you wrote.
Do not reveal what script you wrote via PM, either.

We'll let you know when...
Until then make sure your lips are sealed. :)

...
P.S. The Writer has said he didn't realise and an honest mistake in divulging authorship was made.
For those couple of you who did see, or had correspondence, wipe it from your memories. :D

Great turn out for the challenge. Good job Zack.

Long Easter weekend coupled with an unexpected heatwave here in UK means I haven't had a chance to jump in yet. I should be able to start tomorrow :)

I think I'm going to call it there for the day, 17 down.

It is Easter weekend in the UK as well, so I'm out with the fam quite a bit therefore I've not been able to check a lot out yet. I will read and review all of them before the time is up though, which I presume will be Friday?

Anyway, also I'd like to remind reviewers that yes we do have new writers taking part in the OWC but also writers who have taken time and effort to get the scripts into the competition. Just saying you don't like it or dropping out part-way through reading because you are trying to get through the scripts as fast as possible is not productive. Try and help them, make some constructive comments if you can. The OWC can be a great learning process.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

Long Easter weekend coupled with an unexpected heatwave... :)

What is it, over 20 degrees? ;D

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

Yep, tis a long Easter weekend for lots of us round the world.
Plenty of time afterwards for people to jump on and review.

I whole heartedly agree with Mark too, regarding constructive critiques.

Also, to those who entered their first OWC your comments are valuable even if you're just starting out. If you don't feel comfortable commenting on technicalities just give your views on story. :)

Quoted from LC

What is it, over 20 degrees? ;D

Yes!! And I got sun burnt lol

6 more for me.

Kind of shocking the disparity between reviews between the 27 entries.  Some have less than 8, which you'd think by Monday evening, shouldn't be the case.

As always, some terrible entries have a bunch of feedback, while others, have very few that deserve alot more.

As always, I'll look at every single one and provide some kind of feedback.  Doesn't appear to be the case with most, though.

Good challenge, Zack!  You need to get reading, bro!  HA!!

I think I have 5 or 6 to go. Can't say there's been a complete stand-out script yet. A lot of scripts do several things really well, but I haven’t read one where I've gone, wow this is going to kill the competition (challenge).

I think it’s going to be a close race for quite a few scripts, mine is definitely not one of them this time round. Happy to take my licks though, I know what I did. I still personally love the script.

Right. I'm diving in. I'm presuming I will be able to work out Jeff and Stevie's entries!

#cutoffshorts

I'm going to work my down the list as it's entered in this thread; that way I won't miss any.

Quoted from Andrew

Right. I'm diving into the spa with Jeff and the Rams guys! He needs some help!
I'm going to work my down the players roster #allenbush!!!

Mate, just stick to reading,ok? Don’t get drawn into Jeff’s sordid life!

Quoted from stevie

Mate, just stick to reading,ok? Don’t get drawn into Jeff’s sordid life!

LOL!

Stevie, comment on the scripts, since you have all this free time to parade around your bedroom, looking at yourself in those shorts!

;D ;D ;D ;D

Quoted from Dreamscale

Stevie, comment on the scripts, since you have all this free time to parade around your bedroom, looking at yourself in those shorts!

;D ;D ;D ;D

But feel free to send me and Bush a selfie of it!

I'm pretty pleased with the comments on mine so far - Better than I was expecting

Don't get me wrong, no one loves it and it ain't getting writers choice - but it's not universally hated so that's good ;D

I'm seeing a lot of comments about the vehicles that seem off base to me.

The requirement is a vehicle has to feature prominently in the script. Meaning it has to have some bearing on the story. That doesn't mean it has to take place in a vehicle, or that the majority of the script has to be set in and around a vehicle. It just has to feature in a meaningful way. The suspense scene should definitely feature a vehicle, that was the heart of the challenge. Beyond that, if the action leaves the vehicle but the vehicle is still present, or if another vehicle enters the story, or if the vehicle isn't a traditional one but still meets the definition of a vehicle, in my opinion it all counts.

Quoted from ReneC

Agreed!

Quoted from ReneC

I'm seeing a lot of comments about the vehicles that seem off base to me.

The requirement is a vehicle has to feature prominently in the script. Meaning it has to have some bearing on the story. That doesn't mean it has to take place in a vehicle, or that the majority of the script has to be set in and around a vehicle. It just has to feature in a meaningful way. The suspense scene should definitely feature a vehicle, that was the heart of the challenge. Beyond that, if the action leaves the vehicle but the vehicle is still present, or if another vehicle enters the story, or if the vehicle isn't a traditional one but still meets the definition of a vehicle, in my opinion it all counts.

Then I have interpreted the parameters differently than you.

"The majority of your screenplay must heavily feature some sort of vehicle AND have at least one sequence of prolonged suspense."

the word majority in the above, to me, means the vehicle should feature in the screenplay more than not - a 2 minute suspenseful vehicle scene followed by 4 minutes of no vehicle, for me, does not fit this parameter.
That's how I'm going about it in my scoring anyway.

Just noticed you used the word majority in your post - the parameters literally use the word majority lol

Agree with the multiple vehicles - there's no mention it has to be a single vehicle. Also agree that it should affect the story some how and be involved in the suspense scene.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

You're right, the vehicle has to feature in the majority of the script. And so far that's what I've been seeing. But I've seen some comments calling out writers because the action leaves the vehicle, but the vehicle is still present, it's still a part of the story, and often it's returned to, sometimes more than once.

And does majority mean the bulk of the page count or the most substantial part of the story? For me, it's the latter. Some scenes carry more weight than others.

Anyway, that's how I rate, but I've always been flexible with the interpretation. Like there are some entries that are not at all horrors, but there's only one I rated lower for it so far.

I wish some people would give more than one or two lines of feedback.

I don't. There's a lot of repetition in the feedback as it is. If someone doesn't have anything new to add, at least they're giving their impression. That's helpful for the writer to at least see where they landed as a reader.

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect

I wish some people would give more than one or two lines of feedback.

Yeah, agreed. Totally irritating.

If someone actually read the whole script, wouldn't you think they had some things to say?

Sometimes, I bow out on the very first page, and I write more than most peeps who "in theory" read the whole damn script.

Quoted from ReneC

.

The requirement is a vehicle has to feature prominently in the script. Meaning it has to have some bearing on the story. That doesn't mean it has to take place in a vehicle, or that the majority of the script has to be set in and around a vehicle. It just has to feature in a meaningful way. The suspense scene should definitely feature a vehicle, that was the heart of the challenge. Beyond that, if the action leaves the vehicle but the vehicle is still present, or if another vehicle enters the story, or if the vehicle isn't a traditional one but still meets the definition of a vehicle, in my opinion it all counts.

That's the way I interpreted the OWC. There's only a fewI read so far that doesn't quite fit, but I give them some leeway if a character or two isn't actually in the vehicle or transportation. As to my own entry, I haven't been hit with that criticism much but the week is young. I don't concern myself much, though, because some OWC are open for interpretation, and sometimes those interpretations can get creative. It all depends on execution.

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect

I wish some people would give more than one or two lines of feedback.

You done a decent job. Thanks for entering.
Good luck.

:(

4 more to go.

The quality sure has improved over the first 1/2 I read. Damn, I was very worried, but lately, some quality entries are showing their heads.

I have only read two so far. My comments were not lengthy because both were really good. I honestly had nothing much to offer as far as help goes.

I’m trying my best to leave constructive comments. This is my first OWC and leaving reviews is a little alien so please bear with me.

Quoted from Britman

I’m trying my best to leave constructive comments. This is my first OWC and leaving reviews is a little alien so please bear with me.

You're doing great.

I personally have always sucked at reviews. Instead of getting super technical, I just try to give my honest opinion on the story presented. If something bugs me, I point out. Same for if something excites me.

Quoted from Britman

I’m trying my best to leave constructive comments. This is my first OWC and leaving reviews is a little alien so please bear with me.

I think you're doing just fine!

Okay after some brief distraction and entertainment I'm diving back into the scripts.

Here comes some more crappy reviews :)

Without googling, isn’t a jump seat - a very American term - a single seat on a bus behind the driver?

I have noticed over the years on SS that the Yanks and Brits have trouble with a few of each other’s names for things and/or objects

As an Aussie who grew up imbued on the culture of both countries - because we had none of our own and still haven’t based on what I hear passes for Aussie tv - this hasn’t been a problem for me as I am very well read to the point where my brain is filled with even the most obscure trivia (a workmate is amazed that I can tell him about a movie I have never seen, like year of release,who was in it lol, going back 40 years)

This crops up a lot in reviews on both sides of the Atlantic

Aren't the seats flight attendants sit in called jump seats?

This is way more fun than googling it.

Quoted from ReneC

Aren't the seats flight attendants sit in called jump seats?

This is way more fun than googling it.

Sure is bro!

Wow, I just had a mind blowing thought:

Did Lancasters have jump seats?
:X :P

Quoted from stevie

Wow, I just had a mind blowing thought:

Did Lancasters have jump seats?
:X :P

Or...could Bunnyman jump over a Lancaster in a single bound?

Do people guess who wrote what before the voting/reveal?

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect

Do people guess who wrote what before the voting/reveal?

Yes, but never in the first week. Any guesses should be kept until most people have read and reviewed which is usually a week in, but could be longer too. NOT this early! :)

Never mind. This is Zack's show. ;D

Pia, Libby, glad you two responded. I was about to say go ahead and guess. Glad you girls stepped in before I made a mistake. ;D

Yep, reiterating (cause previous post wonky)...

No guessing at this point!

Quoted from Grandma Bear

Never mind. This is Zack's show. ;D

I'm just a monkey with a keyboard. I trust your judgement, Pia. ;D

The reason for this unofficial rule is that when it comes to the voting some people's voting might be swayed by thinking someone they like or dislike wrote this or that. :)

Quoted from LC

Yep, reiterating (cause previous post wonky)...

No guessing at this point!

I'm guessing I didn't write any of them. For the record, first OWC where I guessed correctly.

Quoted from eldave1

I'm guessing I didn't write any of them. For the record, first OWC where I guessed correctly.

I smell a decoy. ;D

Quoted from Zack

I smell a decoy. ;D

Nope. Would never decoy

Just MHO but the anon thing is waaayy past it’s use by date lol

Mind you, I have been hunting through old OWC’s to see if anyone has used jump seat before

Quoted from Zack

I smell a decoy. ;D

I think the only real surprise might be Dustin. I have a feeling he snuck one in.

And now that I think that, I pretty sure I know which is his.

Quoted from Britman

I’m trying my best to leave constructive comments. This is my first OWC and leaving reviews is a little alien so please bear with me.

Don't fret it - you're doing good.

Just carry on being honest about your feelings towards the scripts and keep it as constructive as possible.

I'm about halfway through I think - I've enjoyed reading everyone's take on this so far

Well done to those who took the challenge

All done. Unlike most OWC's, I really didn't feel like there was a complete stand-out script. I think it's going to be too close to call for six of the entries. Good luck to those six for the Writer's Choice, you probably know who you are :)

Looking forward to seeing who wrote what.

Well I’ve reviewed them all. I enjoyed the read, there was a real mixed batch. I was surprised how many were not horror and a few played fast and loose with the vehicle, as if “the majority of the screenplay must heavily feature some sort of vehicle” was not clear enough. But it was all good fun!

I also noted the discussion that arose regarding how much needs explaining to the audience versus how much they can figure out themselves, or how much they will accept. I think horror has a bit more leeway than some other genres, after all unexplained random shit happening to people is most horror movies. However I think this debate rages in every script that goes into production. There will be some who want it ‘more obvious’ and some who want the ‘audience to figure it out themselves.’

As always, there is a balance. I personally hate being spoon-fed (a term from the UK meaning to feed a baby) but at the same time I’m not a fan of something coming out of left field. An example is on one of the scripts (SPOILER WARNING), I noted at least one reviewer wanting to know where the giant spiders came from. Early on in the script there is a brief news report on the radio about a chemical spill. That was enough for me. I didn’t need a scene showing me this, with some scientists in radioactive suits talking about how worried they are that this experiment has got loose in the wild. But you betcha there will be some Hollywood exec out there which will insist on something like this being shoehorned into to make it ‘more obvious’ for the audience.

If a giant spider had attacked someone at the very beginning of the script without the build-up of the other spiders and no reason at all was provided – I would question that though. Spiders are different. I think a lot of us secretly suspect giant spiders live underground so maybe no-one would question it? An alien invasion by crabs though, well that’s a different story altogether!

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

As always, there is a balance. I personally hate being spoon-fed (a term from the UK meaning to feed a baby)

It's a term in North America too. We also have babies.

I agree about the amount of information being provided. It is a hotly debated subject. What might be lost on some folks is genre movies aren't meant to satisfy everyone. They have an audience who has seen other genre movies. Just like nobody needs to explain vampires or zombies any more because those have turned mainstream, genre movies don't have to explain many of the rules that are common in genre films. All the audience wants to know is which set of rules they're dealing with and what this story is being original with, and that's where the frustration sets in.

Quoted from ReneC

It's a term in North America too. We also have babies.

That made me laugh out loud at work - now I look like a crazy person

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

An alien invasion by crabs though, well that’s a different story altogether!

Yeah, especially "ghost crabs"! ;D ;D

Quoted from ReneC

It's a term in North America too. We also have babies.

I lol'd as well. I only said that as I used that term, I think here in a OWC a while ago and no-one knew what I was talking about.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Yeah, especially "ghost crabs"! ;D ;D

You are never going to let me live that down are you? :-(

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

You are never going to let me live that down are you? :-(

Probably not, as I can't forget that. Maybe that';s a good thing? ;D ;D ;D

I've read more than half of them - that's pretty much going to be it as I am strapped for time (will not vote/did not enter)

My observations of those I read:

- Two stood out above the rest.

- A few stretched meeting the vehicle parameter - that surprised me as I thought that this one would be pretty easy to nail (one that I would have DQ'd). Some just seemed like they were a story someone was working on and then squeezed into to fit. I have said in prior OWCs, when I vote I generally give extra credit to those where the parameters were hit cleanly. That's just me.

- Could be something to do with the horror genre. There were a couple that were very well written, but to me seemed incomplete as I had a hard time figuring out the what and whys of what was going on - like I walked into a scene from a feature and missed the first part so I had no clue what that particular scene meant. Just needed a a line here or there to help me get my bearings. IMO, it would have elevated a couple of scripts from - hey, that was pretty good writing to something that would have resonated with me long after the read. Like I said, could be a horror thing and could be the reason I don't care for horror.

- Surprised by the number of war themed scripts. Nothing wrong with that - just surprising how many peeps landed on the same theme. Equally surprised that there were none (at least from the ones I read) that were based on a UPS/Fed-Ex driver - thought that would be there for sure.

- I thought Zack did a great job with the challenge parameters. Simple and straightforward and allowed something for everyone.

I finished them all yesterday, an interesting collection for sure and once again showcasing some of the great writers on here.

Quoted from eldave1

I've read more than half of them - that's pretty much going to be it as I am strapped for time (will not vote/did not enter)

I think you can still vote on the ones you read? I think it's all averaged out anyway, but I'm not sure.

Still quite a gap between the most reviews and the least. Lots of time left for that gap to close, so hopefully it does :)

Quoted from Warren

Still quite a gap between the most reviews and the least. Lots of time left for that gap to close, so hopefully it does :)

Reads ranging from 9 to 18.

The reading turnout seems low, but it was Easter Weekend.

3 more to go for me.

Quoted from Grandma Bear

The reason for this unofficial rule is that when it comes to the voting some people's voting might be swayed by thinking someone they like or dislike wrote this or that. :)

There's one person who used to target me for criticism pretty much any time I popped up on the boards. No matter what I said or what the subject. But that person is no longer active, so maybe he was finally voted off the island.

I still see some glimmers of smart arses on the boards but it's mostly calmed down compared to how it used to be.

I think everyone is coping it this OWC. Brutal.

Also the spread of comments on any particular script is all over the place. From this is brilliant to this is crap in the exact same threads. Obviously people have different tastes. I'm over zombies and WWII stories, but I don't remember it being this varied in the past. Or maybe I just have OWC PTSD and have blocked it all out.

I agree Warren, very varied, I think that's down to Zack and the great criteria - left lots of room for creativity.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood

I agree Warren, very varied, I think that's down to Zack and the great criteria - left lots of room for creativity.

That could be it. I'm a bit over the vehicle horror. I did say that early on. This is the 3rd in less than 2 years I think. The only thing that's really different is the specification of minimal gore. I think horrors are inherently suspenseful.

I always find the creativity part of an OWC challenging and a little frustrating. We are trying to get the creative juices flowing and people are encouraged to think outside the box, but it's really hard to know where that line is; when it's too outside the box. I guess that's all part of it, hitting the sweet spot. Then again, I think when it comes to OWC's everyone is generally more critical, and quick to pounce on anything that is vaguely out of the box.

Either way, I'm happy with my script and wouldn't have written it without the OWC.

Quoted Text

Either way, I'm happy with my script and wouldn't have written it without the OWC.

Me too.

Next time, can we get a "Very Poor" option for the scoring? we have Good and Very good.

I'm trying to score these entries - some I don't want to put as D/Q, but if I put them as poor they will be rated the same as others which are better - but if I push those to fair.... you get the idea

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

I don't think any of the scripts you feel like rating as poor will be contenders when they are averaged out. Adding Very Poor won't make a difference.

I tend to use Good as the average. Fair is usually for scripts that are below the average for the OWC but have some potential or something neat about them. Poor is everything else below average, unless I DQ a script which is very rare.

I believe we nowadays use the same grading as was used at MoviePoet. Poor. Fair. Good. Very Good and Excellent.

Question - do only writers with an entry get to vote?

Quoted from ReneC

I don't think any of the scripts you feel like rating as poor will be contenders when they are averaged out. Adding Very Poor won't make a difference.

Good point well made.

Quoted from Britman

Question - do only writers with an entry get to vote?

Sometimes Don sends voting ballots to highly conscientious readers and reviewers who don't have an entry.
Don's decision, ultimately.

I'm done with my reads - I think

27 entries and Karman Line only has 9 comments - A little disappointing. It must be last in line for a few reviewers.

Averaging about 15 comments on each entry - and some reviewers haven't even entered. Come on the rest of the entrants, get stuck in, get involved.

A shout out to Britman - I think you have entered a script, but either way, you have got stuck in with the reviews - Kudos to you

Same every OWC Matt, more entries than ultimately go on to review things... shame but you can't force people - unfortunately!

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

Karman Line is one that I still need to read. I'm a little more behind than I want to be, but I'll have them all done.

So far there are 3 that I really like, the rest are good to average.

Quoted Text

A shout out to Britman - I think you have entered a script, but either way, you have got stuck in with the reviews - Kudos to you

Thanks! I just finished reviewing all of them. If my comments are all over the place I apologize in advance. I didn't really find my rhythm until the end, but even then I wasn't overly critical (I hope!).

My turn for a shout out to Kevin (leitskev) - I didn't want to go off course on the script thread you last commented on...

Suffice to say, your reviews are always helpful, insightful, and you go the extra mile, so rest assured your contribution is valuable.

I hope healthwise things are progressing for you in a positive light.

P.S. Perhaps it's time to take a break and go and read a good book. :)

Ooh, and while on the topic of valuable contributors, let's not forget the _ghostwriters - Ghostie & Andrea!

I don't know if either of you entered this time around? If you did or didn't, thanks for all of your critiques. V.nice to have another gal on the boards too. :)

Okay, cheerleading over.
I've some more to read and review myself.

OK, I'm done.

And it looks like everyone is done, as there haven't been any new reads since yesterday.

ARGH!!!

Does that mean we are allowed to guess who wrote what?

I still have about five or six more to go and have the day off. I hope the honey do list isn't too outrageous today.

I'll be finishing mine up this weekend. Trying to avoid Endgame spoilers.

I still have ten to go.

I'm going to try to read some more. I just have a hard time with script format. It's not a new problem for me or illness related. My eye tends to wander over slugs and sometimes even action description.

I've been reading articles over the last years and I think there are big changes going on in the way the industry acquires properties. I think it makes the spec market both harder and easier.

What studios are doing is acquiring stories that can be turned into films. That's not new, of course, there have always been book adaptations and "based on a true story" stuff.

But now they are gobbling up short stories.

Here is one reason: what they need to be able to do is find a good story and pass it around to other executives. If enough people think it might make a film or series, they buy it. Then it ends up in some process where they get directors and actors and producers to look at it in their pile of acquired stuff. They really don't care how the script or story is formatted. If it reaches the point where important actors or directors start attaching themselves to it they then go out and hire a team of screenwriters to craft it into the feature they want.

Which brings us back to that stage where things are being acquired. What matters most is that the story draw enough interest that it gets passed around. We're in the digital age. So let's say some developer gets a story they like. They email to other executive in their group, and people read it on the plane, or at home with the kids playing around, or in the coffee shop.

All that matters is the story be good enough to get passed around.

So what a writer needs to ask is what format best achieves that.

Of course, if the writer is trying to use scripts as samples to show their writing so they get hired onto a team, that's different.

But I'm talking about writing a story that will get passed around and hopefully bought.

With that in mind, using prose, a short story, or even a novelette, might be the better strategy.

We're talking about scripts though. However, the same principle applies. If the script is not easy and entertaining to read, how likely is it to get passed around? How likely is someone who opens it on the plane to keep reading?

Billy Wilder(I think it was him) once said you can begin a movie with a courtroom scene, but not a screenplay. The reasons why should be clear.

That really limits the story telling options of the spec screenwriter. For example, you don't want too many characters or too much description.

I'm not sure what the best way for screenwriters to handle this challenge is. The OWC entry Stowaway was brilliantly written. It's not by any means a brilliant story. But there is something maybe to be learned. Let's say the writer is planning a feature based on killer spiders. By having an opening scene with only one character it makes it a much easier READ.

If Stowaway was the opening scene for a feature, it would achieve several things as a spec script.

1) it pulls in and holds the writer til the end of the scene
2) it creates a great trust in the writer. Because the scene grabs and helds our attention we know we're in very good hands. So if the next couple scenes are more challenging for us as a reader we're more willing to put in the time because we trust the writer knows what he or she is doing...based on that opening scene.
3) it injects enough humor that we know we'll be entertained no matter how cheesy it gets

The other scripts I've read so far were all very competently written. Some would make good movies. But none of them achieved the things I listed above.

But with a slightly better strategy, most of them, maybe all of them, COULD achieve that.

Let's cross breed two scripts as an example, the Stowaway and Libertine. Imagine if Libertine opened with a slave chained in the bowels of the ship and he's attacked by the spider from Stowaway. Is this spider supernatural? Where did it come from? The chained slave struggles to escape its attack, and the quick scene ends with the death of the slave. THEN we go to the captain and his undermanned ship and their challenges. This would have been easy for a writer with the talents the one that wrote Libertine. And it would have pulled us into the story. Easy to read about one character grappling with a spider. Or maybe the deck is filled with slaves, but as long as they are not get named, it's basically one character. Tense, easy to read. Simple.

I haven't been able to read many, but this is a valuable lesson for me anyway. If I ever write a screenplay again(I write prose now), I'll remember this. If it's a spec script it's absolutely critical to bring the reader in. That means very few characters, one or two; it means little description, maybe just enough to color the situation. Humor helps. In sum, the most important thing is bringing the reader in with something easy to read and entertaining in the opening. Not saying I have that ability, but that will be the goal.

Peace.

Humour doesn't always help. Humour detracts from serious drama. I've found that humour helps a lot in OWCs. Also strong subjects like child abuse pull at the heartstrings of the writers here. But people with cash to spend on films don't care about any of that.

Kevin, Kevin, Kevin...

Oh man, don't even get me started!

Nice to see you championing a script, but understand there many other opinions on what you have championed. Also, remember, you've only read a few entries.

Different strokes, different folks.

Quoted from leitskev

it injects enough humor that we know we'll be entertained no matter how cheesy it gets

Only if the story calls for it. Having humor in a script does not necessarily
make it better, nor does it necessarily make it worse

There are some jokes told in scripts that I cringe over, usually if those gags involve self awareness and callbacks to other (better) movies and shows.

I’m reading more on Monday.

Yes, obviously humor is not appropriate in every situation. But it helps in many. For example, OWC writers love horror. But many, maybe most of the horror OWCs have a heavy dose of cheese. I'm guilty of it too, big time. But if there is humor that cheese suddenly becomes a steak dinner. Because it's the writer saying, "Ok, this is cheese, but I recognize that."

I think my main point is this: you have to sell the STORY first. So the question is what is the best way to do that?

You have to get people passing around your story. Which means it has to be an easy read and entertianing.

If your story is about Anne Frank you probably don't want humor in the opening. However, if you are an unknown writer trying to get a spec story out there, there coud be useful things to learn from the OWC. For example, your opening scene maybe should have as few characters as possible.

Jeff, the thing is few readers will read a script the way you do. You have a great eye for detail and you are processing everything from the the slugs to the wrylies. But how many people passing around a script will read it the same way? I suspect very few. Those readers want EASY and ENTERTAINING. They want the story to grab them quickly and hold on. They want to care about the characters, feel pain, fear, laughter. Those things are hard to do any any writing format, for any writer. But sometimes the screenplay format makes it much, much harder. Shouldn't screenwriters take that into account?

I would add this: if putting a story in the form of a comic book or graphic novel will get it passed around, then that's better than a screenplay. I don't read comic books or graphic novels. But many people do. If industry execs do, then it would be a real advantage. You'd be putting a story into their hands that is easy to read and has a very visual format.

Quoted from leitskev

Jeff, the thing is few readers will read a script the way you do. You have a great eye for detail and you are processing everything from the the slugs to the wrylies. But how many people passing around a script will read it the same way? I suspect very few. Those readers want EASY and ENTERTAINING. They want the story to grab them quickly and hold on. They want to care about the characters, feel pain, fear, laughter. Those things are hard to do any any writing format, for any writer. But sometimes the screenplay format makes it much, much harder. Shouldn't screenwriters take that into account?

Kev, everything you're saying here is pretty much common knowledge, isn't it? Maybe not the "grab them immediately part, but everything else is what all writers strive for, I think.

I watch alot of movies, and 1 thing I don't personally like is when the shit hits the fan from the get go. I like things to start slow and work their way up. Maybe it's just me, but that's definitely how I feel.

Quoted from leitskev

A comic book, graphic novel, screenplay.  It's all going into the recycler by the nineteen year old intern with no attention span or qualifications.

As far as getting it in the door, it's all about the query letter.  And sadly, whether or not the script placed in a competition.  If it hasn't, it's twice as hard to get it in anyone's hands.

I'm all but convinced at this point that it's all about the meat of the script.  The format, the action, descriptions, etc will take priority over story, plot and character.   This really seems to be the case for most competitions.  If it LOOKS impressive (even with a mediocre story and premise), it will get handed up the chain.

As a script reader for The Radmin Company back in 2003-2004, I saw this time and time again.  TWISTED (aka Blackout) looked terrific on paper.   Nice, clean format, terrific descriptions and ZERO substance.   Bad story, character, dialogue.  All terrible.  But it was their golden property because it structurally hit all the right notes on paper.

You want to get real industry eyes on your script? It's easy. Really. Write a really good script. Send it out for coverage to a reputable well known company with connections. Since you're paying them, their readers have to read it no matter what. Now, if the script is as good as most writers think their scripts are and it gets a RECOMMEND, you bet your ass you're going to get people that want to read it. Everyone in or near the industry wants to be the one that discovers a great script and like Robert McKee says, "everyone in Hollywood is in search of a great story". There just aren't as many out there as we think.

Cheers! ;D

Jeff, that's a good point to continue the discussion. Yes, we all know a script should grab the reader. But the question is how. Are there tricks for doing this or things to avoid. I mentioned a famous one by Billy Wilder, who advises that a movie can start with a court room scene, but not a screenplay. I've pointed to the Stowaway script here in the OWC. You might dislike it, I don't remember, and I'm sure you have good reasons for however you evaluate it. But one thing no one can take away from that script: it's an easy read.

How important is that? It depends. Making a screenplay an easy read in an ideal world shouldn't matter. And for Aaron Sorkin it doesn't. He's earned the right to build his story the way he wants. His script doesn't need to get passed around. Are the certain tricks for making a scene easy to read besides limiting the character amount? Probably. Maybe you can suggest some. I'm eager to learn.

You mention how you like movies to start. I'm with you on that. The best movies develop carefully.

But here's the thing: the best movies seldom begin as spec scripts. A spec script DOES have to grab the reader right out of the gate. It doesn't have to be shit hitting the fan. Just something that is easy to read that grabs our attention.

Jack, yeah. But that also proves my point. Let's say you work for a big studio. Thousands of scripts submitted every month. Most of them a slog to get through. That's what interns are for.

But make no mistake, there is a huge market right now for material. Netflix and a hundred other content producers are gobbling stuff up. The search is intense.

Things do get passed around. Not ideas, because those can't be copyrighted. But short stories ARE getting circulated now.

Quoted from leitskev

I do agree that job one is to get someone to keep turning pages.

Job two is to have a story that resonates with them when they've turned the last page.

In the example you listed (which I thought was a relatively solid entry) - job 1 was achieved IMO - mostly because of the great craftsmanship (I actually found the humor a bit disrupting).

Job 2 was not. The story won't stay with me like a couple of the others did. That's just my opinion.

Again - I'd give it high marks on writing skill alone.

Quoted from eldave1

Agreed, but will also add that many of the asides, profanity in the asides, and "stuff" that has nothing to do with what's in the script, did not really help the read, and definitely did not make it an easier read.

Anytime you add unnecessary prose, you're not making for an easier, quicker read.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Don't really agree. Jeff. I didn't mind the asides, the profanity in the asides or the other stuff. I thought they all helped set the tone and spark the imagination and in fact made it an easier read. Just me.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

Does that mean we are allowed to guess who wrote what?

No.
Votes are not in yet.
Reviewing time is also not up, far as I know.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Absolutely agree. OWC audiences (from my experience) love deep and meaningful, or outrageously funny verging on farce. I'm well over the child abuse themes, and they always made me roll my eyes.
Mind you , I'm watching Tin Star (Tim Roth) - talk about 'kill your darlings.'

Votes have been cast. Bit of a strange OWC this one. No excellents from me this time around. While there was some excellent writing on display, and some dialogue that I could only dream of writing, I don't think one script really embodied the entire spirit of the challenge. At least not in my opinion.

I still think it's too close to call a winner, like a said earlier I think there are 6 that could easily take it, I could probably narrow it down further to 2 that are probably the most likely, but who knows. I'll reveal that 6 and 2 once the voting closes.

Dave, hello.

Yeah, I agree actually. The story was very well written...and won't linger in the mind. Few if any OWC's do, of course.

What you have pointed out aptly highlights the problem. To make a story very readable you usually have to give up something.

There are varying goals even with the selling of spec scripts. Does the writer want to create a name for himself, make a few bucks, or see a drama made that the critics love?

I think it's worth thinking about these things because maybe it helps the writer thread the needle better.

Quoted from leitskev

That is an issue for sure. I've written a lot of stuff for me - i.e., I like it or the topic - rather than writing what I think would sell. Thankfully, I don't have to make a living at this.

Yeah, I'm not really attempting a career at this point either. I'd say my goal is really just to tell a story that people can't put down. I'd be happy with a very wide range of possibilities within that goal.

OK, it's official. New advice to aspiring writers...

Load your script with as many asides as you can come up with and try to work in some profanity where possible.

Don't forget about wrylies, either, and whenever possible, use action wrylies, too.

If you're having trouble coming up with the proper Slug, INT FRONT WINDOW always seems to be an SS fave.

These are words of wisdom for all to follow. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quoted from Dreamscale

OK, it's official. New advice to aspiring writers...

Load your script with as many asides as you can come up with and try to work in some profanity where possible.

Don't forget about wrylies, either, and whenever possible, use action wrylies, too.

If you're having coming up with the proper Slug, INT FRONT WINDOW always seems to be an SS fave.

These are words of wisdom for all to follow. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sounds like good advice to me. Although you forgot orphans.

Bet that the top voted script will have one or more of these elements.

Quoted from Dreamscale

OK, it's official. New advice to aspiring writers...

Load your script with as many asides as you can come up with and try to work in some profanity where possible.

Don't forget about wrylies, either, and whenever possible, use action wrylies, too.

If you're having coming up with the proper Slug, INT FRONT WINDOW always seems to be an SS fave.

These are words of wisdom for all to follow. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The truth is, every single script in this OWC had a wide range of errors.  No one is exempt.  Mine were just lazy mistakes due to rushing in a draft in under 3 hours.  That's just arrogant presumption that it will be praised by my peers.

Particularly pertaining to run on sentences, ending with prepositions and numerous grammatical issues.  It's funny how some of these things get overlooked.  IMO, run on sentences are the #1 mistakes made by screenwriters.  And not just talking about newbies.



Did I spell grammatical correctly?  :D

Quoted from eldave1

Sounds like good advice to me. Although you forgot orphans.

Bet that the top voted script will have one or more of these elements.

The idea that some mistakes are forgiven while others are cardinal sins is nonsense.  It's either correct or incorrect.  But you are correct.  If it holds a person's attention and amuses them, all seems to be forgiven.

But that goes against everything we are taught about the craft.  It's infuriating.

Quoted from ericdickson

I'm poking fun. Asides and wrylies are not errors.

Quoted from eldave1

I'm poking fun. Asides and wrylies are not errors.

I just read a full article about wrylies being the death of specs. Who the hell really knows? I guess I'll be taking mine out from now on.

Quoted from ericdickson

I just read a full article about wrylies being the death of specs. Who the hell really knows? I guess I'll be taking mine out from now on.

I wouldn't. But it's up to you

Quoted from ericdickson

I just read a full article about wrylies being the death of specs. Who the hell really knows? I guess I'll be taking mine out from now on.

The death of specs? That's some really strong language. Do you mind if I ask who the author of the article was that their words hold so much weight?

A link to the article would be great as well if you still have it.

Quoted from Warren

The author is Jeff Bush, and you know how much weight that holds, right, Warren?

Quoted from Warren

Ah, hell. Now I have to go back and find it.

Two understandable uses of “Wrylies” are when dialogue needs to be directed to a specific character in the room and it’s not obvious. The other spec script use is when the dialogue delivery has more impact at a lower volume.. A possible third, although not encouraged, is when it is not clear from the situation or dialogue that sarcasm is involved. My advice is make it clear by character behavior.

To sum it up. And, for the most part, I think most of us follow these rules.

Quoted from Dreamscale

The author is Jeff Bush, and you know how much weight that holds, right, Warren?

I did read that article. I think it was entitled " Writing With The Bush League." :)

Quoted from eldave1

I did read that article. I think it was entitled " Writing With The Bush League." :)

WOCKA WOCKA! :D

Quoted from ericdickson

Also, and IMO, probably most important, is to use a wrylie when someone speaks in an accent, or a strange way. If this happens with all certain characters, a NOTE an be used to save using a wrylie every time a new person speaks.

Quoted from eldave1

I did read that article. I think it was entitled " Writing With The Bush League." :)

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quoted from ericdickson

I wrote an extensive post on this recently in the screenwriting class thread. Check it out to see if you agree.

Quoted from ericdickson

I just read a full article about wrylies being the death of specs. Who the hell really knows? I guess I'll be taking mine out from now on.

It all depends on how the wrylie is used, and dangers of overuse.
If it's less than two words, really necessary, and/or done sparingly, I'm not bothered by it. It bothers me more when I read such things used as narrative action where it's the only action a character does.

Quoted from ericdickson

Ah, hell. Now I have to go back and find it.

Not to worry, was only if you had quick access to it. It wouldn't make me change the way I use wrylies either way, I just would have like to see the reasons for calling it the death of spec scripts.

Okay, here:

https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/m-1553907192/

We had a big discussion on these, amongst other things and Dave summed it all up perfectly.

Should really be a Sticky, updated Sticky component to this thread:

https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/m-1194903750/

I use wrilies how I feel like using them, not how somebody else feels they should be used. I use action wrilies quite a lot. I couldn't give two flying effs what anyone else thinks. Over analysing this stuff is the death of specs to any writer that takes heed of this bullshit. Concentrate on writing.

The most recent research (which I posted on these forums) suggest script readers favour voice and characterization above all else, even over originality or plot! Format is right at the bottm. Voice that contains profanity seems to give that voice more credence for some reason. I don't know why but the evidence suggest this.

I know research, facts, evidence, and experience isn't in at the moment and it's all opinion, belief and gut feeling but when your job is to read scripts all day, which ones stand out? The ones filled with stuff like this perhaps?

EXT: GARDEN - DAY

BOB (32) a touch of grey in his hair, beer belly hanging over his loose jeans - mows the lawn. He waves to his neighbour.

I fell asleep typing that.

In Shane Black's Lethal Weapon script he described a big expensive house as 'the type of house I'm going to buy if I sell this script'.

Which one is the script reader going to remember after a day reading scripts? The ones with style and a bit of cheekiness, or the safe, bland one? Which scripts are you currently discussing here, the ones with the distinct voice or the ones with the best plot?

Food for thought.

I'm eating a jalapeno pepper. There was a study out a few weeks ago that shows the medicinal value for people with certain conditions. Has had some unexpected health benefits. What an amazing little thing.

I was going to add to the never-ending rules discussion, but it seemed more helpful to post about the peppers.

If you are not a writer earning a living at this and you want to enter the spec market, write a story that grabs the reader, a story that's easy to read, a story that shows some voice. Beyond websites and blogs no one will care much about format. Readers want something entertaining that isn't a slog to get through.

This is a debate as old as the boards.

Only one thing is undeniably true.  You will never please everyone.

If you know the rules well enough to bend them -- a critical caveat -- then trust your instincts with wrilies and other "conventions" of the trade.  That is your voice and if you don't trust it and use it then you are wasting any talent that you may (or may not) have.

I remember an action script that opened this way:

FADE IN MUTHAFUCKA:

Unfortunately, the script did not deliver on this promising start.  But had it actually been good enough to justify this ape-shit slug line?  Then it is a brilliant rule bender.

You can hate this author's choice but you would be wrong because you would continue reading (at least for a bit) beyond a slug like this.

I thought this was all obvious.

Muthafucka is spelled wrong.

:)

Quoted from bert

I remember an action script that opened this way:

FADE IN MUTHAFUCKA:

Unfortunately, the script did not deliver on this promising start. But had it actually been good enough to justify this ape-shit slug line? Then it is a brilliant rule bender.

You can hate this author's choice but you would be wrong because you would continue reading (at least for a bit) beyond a slug like this.

Promising start? How and why is that promising?

It's fucking terrible! Absolutely fucking terrible!!!

Quoted from Dreamscale

It's fucking terrible! Absolutely fucking terrible!!!

Quoted from moi

Only one thing is undeniably true. You will never please everyone.

Usually only very good writers would dare to do something like that, so I'd see it as a promising start too. However, the next few lines and the rest of the script better live up to it. As soon as that voice is revealed as fake or forced, I'm out of there.

Quoted from LC

DAVE
(as he takes a sip of
coffee first thing in the morning)
Thank you.

Quoted from bert

May be my favorite lead in of all time.

But like you said - must deliver after that.

I remember when I first joined the boards in 2011 it was said that to submit a script to a studio you had to send the physical manuscript. All kinds of rules applied such as 3 ring binders, something like that. Sending PDF was a no no.

Things change. Wise people try to anticipate that change.

Someone earlier mentioned that a script is only going to get notes from an intern. While that's still true in many ways, the world really has changed. Acquisition departments of Netflix and Hallmark and everyone else is scouring the world for good stories they can acquire. No, I don't have personal experience of this. But I've read several articles, and it also makes sense. The production world is VERY different than it was in 2011. There is a tremendous demand for content. The supply simply doesn't come close to meeting demand. Netflix, Amazon...and a hundred smaller channels...all competing for content. The old system of a few big studios employing teams of interns is largley dying.

Which is exciting.

But which also means writers might benefit from recognizing the production world has change, is in the process of change.

Even an OWC type script could get passed around and bought up. If that script is in a more readable and entertaining form it will have a leg up. And these are PRODUCERS, not interns, looking for scripts.

Small independent producers are hunting for concepts, acquiring them, then bringing them to places like Netflix and Amazon. These producers don't even know what a wrylie is let alone whether it breaks someone's rule. They want to be able to scour through these stories in search of something valuable.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Usually only very good writers would dare to do something like that, so I'd see it as a promising start too.

It is so gloriously incorrect that the author clearly knew how incorrect it was. I dug it for balls alone.

I mean, I laughed aloud. The first 3 words and I was laughing. What spec writer could possibly hope to accomplish more?

Quoted from eldave1

But like you said - must deliver after that.

Alas, no.  We got two guys walking on the beach talking shit when we needed a ridiculously over-the-top, profanity-laden action scene.  Lost opportunity, that one.

So, anyway, back to wrilies.  Every word should serve some purpose, and IMO entertaining the reader IS a purpose.  If you love it, keep it.  But if you've any doubts, probably better to cut.

And I am a big hypocrite because I seldom take this advice myself.  So, there's that, too.

Quoted from leitskev

Small independent producers are hunting for concepts, acquiring them, then bringing them to places like Netflix and Amazon. These producers don't even know what a wrylie is let alone whether it breaks someone's rule. They want to be able to scour through these stories in search of something valuable.

Dead on. They know if they like something or not.

Sad, how few comments some have.

Also sad, how many very bad scripts have "alot" of comments.

Shocking, maybe.

Collusion? ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quoted from Dreamscale

Sad, how few comments some have.

Also sad, how many very bad scripts have "alot" of comments.

Shocking, maybe.

Collusion? ;D ;D ;D ;D

Obstruction

Quoted from eldave1

Obstruction

Of justice!!!

Quoted from Dreamscale

Sad, how few comments some have.

Also sad, how many very bad scripts have "alot" of comments.

I don't know Jeff. I look at the current average. 18, (between 14 and 23) No. 23 is "Libertine" which actually might crack the top 5, as it seems nobody outright hated it. Not even you. I had some issues with it, but I didn't think it was "bad".(I didn't write it)

My script had mixed reviews, although it leaned slightly more on the positive as an average.
I'm not miffed that I gotten less than 18 comments. Maybe nobody has much more to add.
Maybe some folks guessed me and thought "I'll wait until the reveal and/or see if that crazy nutjob hands in a revision" (Which is more than likely; some minor details here and there)

Maybe some reviewers didn't submit OWC entries.
Could be anything. Just as long as those submitted do at least a fair share of reviewing - and it looks to be the case for the most part- I have no problems.

1 review in 12 hours. NOT GOOD!

Guess what we have is basically what we can expect.

Do we really need to wait till Friday? Let's just start the guessing and get to it.

This is Zack's show, but if it was up to me, I would allow guessing, just no outing of writers. Maybe Zack will chime in?

Quoted from Grandma Bear

This is Zack's show, but if it was up to me, I would allow guessing, just no outing of writers. Maybe Zack will chime in?

The suspense is killing me over here

Quoted from Dreamscale

1 review in 12 hours. NOT GOOD!

Guess what we have is basically what we can expect.

Do we really need to wait till Friday? Let's just start the guessing and get to it.

We could secretly PM each other. The suspense is too much. I'm about to crack under the pressure of it all.

Hey, guys. Sorry I've been away. When I've not been sleeping, I've been working. I still plan to read and review the scripts, but it's gonna take me a little more time.

That said, I'm very happy with the turnout this time around. I had a blast putting this challenge together.

As for the guessing game, go ahead and start guessing. ;D

Quoted from Zack

Oh, boy. Here we go. :D

Here we go, indeed!!!

I have a guess, but I'[ll wait until a few other have made guesses.

I'll have a crack...

A Pinch - Jeff
Diversion Down Elder Tree Lane - Anthony
The Libertine - Mark
Beyond the sea - Dustin
The Stowaway - Rene

That's it.

I dream of the Devil - Dustin

Stowaway - Bert

Libertine - Paul or Rene

Tiillinghaust 1944 - Jack

Quoted from Warren

I'll have a crack...

A Pinch - Jeff
Diversion Down Elder Tree Lane - Anthony
The Libertine - Mark
Beyond the sea - Dustin
The Stowaway - Rene

That's it.

I'll go with Mark for Libertine. Other than that, I'm clueless.

Quoted from Warren

I'll have a crack...

A Pinch - Jeff
Diversion Down Elder Tree Lane - Anthony
The Libertine - Mark
Beyond the sea - Dustin
The Stowaway - Rene

That's it.

Not correct for me. I promise!!

It's been awhile since I've read any of you guys work. A long time, but I'll go with Dustin Bowcott for A Pinch. And Jeff for Ganglers.

If I'm way off base, don't kill me.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Not correct for me. I promise!!

If it's not that, it's The Gathering.

Quoted from ericdickson

It's been awhile since I've read any of you guys work. A long time, but I'll go with Dustin Bowcott for A Pinch. And Jeff for Ganglers.

If I'm way off base, don't kill me.

No Gangling here!!!! ;D ;D ;D

Reap What You Sow; jackwalsh. More to come.

Quoted from Warren

If it's not that, it's The Gathering.

That's a good guess! I liked it, but I didn't like a few things about it. HOLD PLEASE...

Yeah, I liked it for sure, but it had something in it I WOULD NEVER FUCKING DO!! Double line Wrylie!!!! ARGH!!!!! REALLY!!!!

I am 99.99% sure who wrote The Libertine, but I won't say that here. The writer denies it, but I'm still sure. ;D

Other than that one, there are three that I know 100% who wrote them, but that's it. Beyond these, I have no clue. :)

Quoted from Dreamscale

I dream of the Devil - Dustin

Stowaway - Bert

Libertine - Paul or Rene

Tiillinghaust 1944 - Jack

You assume I wrote your absolute least favorite script with a one star rating? Hmm. We've come a long way since 2007.

I won't deny nor will I accept this answer. :D

Quoted from ericdickson

You assume I wrote your absolute least favorite script with a one star rating? Hmm. We've come a long way since 2007.

I won't deny nor will I accept this answer. :D

I mean nothing bad about that one, and I'm quite sure I said the writer had serious talent.

If not you, DJS. I just see you going for an over the top presentation.

Jack, I remember you and I KNOW you're a very good writer. Hope you know that.

Ooh, I see we're guessing and it's been okayed.

But no revealing yet!

So... I haven't read them all, and I also haven't a clue.

The reveals will be very interesting, especially: Stowaway.

I can rarely work out who wrote what but I'm thinking Dustin for I Dream Of The Devil based on his comment on that script. It could be though that he just really likes it, if so I'm stumped.

Dance for the Devil - An easy-to-produce short says 'Warren' to me.

No idea at all on the rest. Especially the top 6 scripts. There are so many good writers here, they could be written by any one of them.

My script was not very well received this time around, but I wrote it fairly quickly in a total of approximately four hours - in between a major rewrite of an audio play adaptation, two short screenplays, and a monologue. So, there's my excuse.

As soon as the deadline was up, I've been at a loose end since. Nothing to do. Typical.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Dance for the Devil - An easy-to-produce short says 'Warren' to me.

I did always used to go into OWC's with production in mind, but I've stopped doing that with my more recent entries, so it's definitely not mine.

They're good for getting a film made but not so good for getting a mug :)

Quoted from Warren

Ah, you going for a set of mugs, Warren? ;D

Quoted from LC

Ah, you going for a set of mugs, Warren? ;D

Well at least a friend for my other one, it looks so lonely on the shelf by its self.

I hardly know anyone here - but I'll throw out a few guesses...

Gondolier - Anthony Cawood
The Libertine - Dustin
Reap what you sow - Warren
Ganglers - Mark Renshaw
It's Coming - PKCardinal

I was also going to say Jeff for The Gathering - maybe the double line wyrlie is to throw us off the scent

Didn't read them all (only got to 19) - but based my gut says:

Read What You Sow - Warren
Libertine or Stowaway - Paul
The Gathering - Jeff.

Only because of this:

Quoted Text

And then, you've got 3 misspellings of "lightning"! Really? I could have sworn there was lightning early on...let's see...yeah, OK, you spelled it right on Page 1, fucked it up here somehow. No biggie.

It didn't sound like a Jeff review to me: Why would anyone catch a typo and then go back and see if that word was spelled wrong on other places and then say the typo was no biggie here because you spelled it right before - The Jeff I know would have said - Learn how to spell lightening! Way to many typos!

But then I see the dreaded two-lined wrylie at the end. That can't be Jeff - right?? Christ, it could have only been worse if the second line of the wrylie was an orphan. Is Jeff playing games with me....?

Yes. So - Jeff, for future scripts:

This:

Quoted Text

(turns his hands
into a fist)

Can be a one line wrylie

(makes a fist)

When is the voting deadline?

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect

When is the voting deadline?

May 3rd.

Okay, I'm done with reading and reviewing. Only skipped a review on one script, and that's because I just can't think of a single thing to add.

Pretty good group of scripts. No single standout for me... only gave one the top score, and that was reluctant because I didn't think the script finished well.

No guesses as to who wrote what.

Quoted from Dreamscale

This made me laugh - so thanks. Yes - you said the writer had serious talent

Quoted Text

I can't do it. No fucking way can I read another 6 pages. I'm sorry, but this has got to be the single most offensive scripts I've ever seen, in terms of the writing. The 6 pages I read feel like 10 or more. No character has any character. So little has happened.

Not sure how anyone could construe that not to be a compliment.

PS - you do know we don't write the comments in Snap Chat

Why is it that peeps like to reread my feedback and then quote it here?

There has to be some better things to do with your time...I wold hope, at least.

Quoted from eldave1

... Learn how to spell lightening! Way to many typos!

Quoted from Dreamscale

Why is it that peeps like to reread my feedback and then quote it here?

There has to be some better things to do with your time...I wold hope, at least.

It’s coz we love you alot, buddy

Quoted from stevie

It’s coz we love you alot, buddy

Ah...shucks...

Quoted from LC

Perfect :)

No more guesses?

What happened to Zack?

IMO, 2 weeks to rad, vote, etc is just too long, as peeps lose interest.

I am looking forward to seeing who wrote what...and why. HA!

I don’t know anyone well enough to guess.

I still have six to go, I think. Family and work just won't leave me alone.

I've noticed a pattern. If Jeff likes a script, I don't. If he doesn't, I do. If we ever agree, I think we'd know the winner.

Quoted from Dreamscale

What happened to Zack?

Still here. :) Unfortunately I haven't had much free time the past week. Work sucks. As soon as I get a free day, I'm gonna dive back into the scripts. Fingers crossed for Saturday.

Based off what I've read so far, I've happy with what you guys have done with this challenge.

Quoted from ReneC

I've noticed a pattern. If Jeff likes a script, I don't. If he doesn't, I do. If we ever agree, I think we'd know the winner.

Oh boy...does that mean I didn't like yours and you didn't like mine?

I don't like very many, so maybe we're OK?

Quoted from ReneC

agreeing with Jeff on a script is like agreeing with Doctor Kevorkian a long-term care plan:-)

Quoted from ReneC

I've noticed a pattern. If Jeff likes a script, I don't. If he doesn't, I do. If we ever agree, I think we'd know the winner.

His highest praise and scores generally go to his own script, so that probably does say something. :P

Quoted from Warren

His highest praise and scores generally go to his own script, so that probably does say something. :P

Maybe your narcissism is starting to wear off on me, Warren?

Quoted from Dreamscale

Maybe your narcissism is starting to wear off on me, Warren?

Rub off...

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Rub off...

wear/rub, who cares?

Peeps need to understand that in dialogue and communication, the rules of English are thrown out the window. We talk how we talk and there's rally no need to try and throw out corrections.

You get me?

Quoted from Dreamscale

I can think of at least one instance where you wouldn't want someone to wear it off...

Quoted from ReneC

I can think of at least one instance where you wouldn't want someone to wear it off...

I can think of numerous instances where I wouldn't want to watch someone rub it off.

;D ;D ;D ;D

Quoted from Dreamscale

I didn't try to throw out a correction, I actually did it. There's another one for you.

Found a cool online translater that converts English to London Cockney slang. Not much you can't find onlline now!

Quoted from leitskev

Found a cool online translater that converts English to London Cockney slang. Not much you can't find onlline now!

I change my FB settings to Pirate English and live like that from time to time.

Quoted from khamanna

I change my FB settings to Pirate English and live like that from time to time.

I love this! So funny, Kham. ;D

Quoted from leitskev

Found a cool online translater that converts English to London Cockney slang. Not much you can't find onlline now!

Hmm, dubious about this if using it for writing verbatim and you're not from there. It's more the flavour you want to instill and go easy with it. You want to have that script vetted by a Londoner before it sees the light of day imho. Example: Rhyming slang in everyday word usage would feature differently in certain age groups and be subtle in others, if at all. I'm married to a Brit/Irish guy so there are nuanced words and phrases for sure.

Just read Dustin's, Evicted:
https://www.simplyscripts.com/2015/07/13/evicted-short-script-review-available-for-production/

I bet the Aussie translator is a riot, too. We don't go around brandishing words like: Sheila, bonza, and crikey all the time. Well, I do catch myself using the odd crikey and bloody hell, but 'strewth' for example is not a part of my vocab. Maybe Stevie uses Sheila quite a bit. ;D A lot of our words come from Brit origin but we're heavily influenced from all the U.S. movies and TV we watch too. Will have a look for the Aussie one. I found the Scot translator and mentioned it in my feedback for Diversion Down Elder Tree Lane, but you don't wanna go overboard and sound like an eejit.

I agree with Jeff in that particular instance, we all speak with colloquialisms, slang.
Rub off, wear off, same difference, (although 'rub off' can take on an entirely different meaning in certain circles) different region, parent influence, schooling, or peer group. Teen speak is an example of a whole other thing too.

Just sayin'...

Oh no, you're not tricking me into reading a Dustin script(just kidding).

I don't need it to be perfect. It's a middle grade novel where one of the kids suddenly develops a British accident. He's not British, so if I get it wrong, HE got it wrong! lol

Quoted from leitskev

;D
Ah well, in that case it'd be very handy.

I just use a simple rule: Let's use Jeff as an example.

Jeff can "rub: people the wrong way. OR -

Jeff can "wear" on people.

Jeff can't "wear off" on people. He has to "rub off" on them (eeeew).

Jeff can "rub off" in the privacy of his own home. But --

Jeff would need to stop before it wore off.

I generally agree that many things go in dialogue. That being said - I'd go with rub off.

Good God I have writer's block - thank God for this outlet.

Any more guesses? I've got Sean Elwood for First Responders.

Literally anything goes in dialogue! ANYTHING!

Because peeps do not speak in perfect English, and if they do in a script, they better be a fucking smartass arsehole.

Time to reveal!

I'm close to doing it...

Quoted from Dreamscale

Time to reveal!

I'm close to doing it...

Soon. ;D

Quoted from Dreamscale

Write . Rite. Right.

Sorry, dude. Didn't mean to wear you the wrong way. :)

I didn't read that many, so I don't know if Don has already sent out the voting emails. Maybe I didn't qualify this time. Did you guys get voting emails yet?

I think entrant-only votes this time around.

I read and reviewed quite a few but no voting ballot.
That's cool with me btw. Up to Don.

Warren mentioned he got his votes in so I presumed he got an email link.

Quoted from Grandma Bear

I didn't read that many, so I don't know if Don has already sent out the voting emails. Maybe I didn't qualify this time. Did you guys get voting emails yet?

Nope. Figured for entrants only

I can’t imagine that anyone else is actually still reading/voting so these are my predictions and favourite.

So I said I thought it was too close to call for 6 of them, these are the 6 I was talking about:

It's Coming
First Responders
Gondolier
The Stowaway
The Libertine
Diversion Down Elder Tree Lane

The 2 that I thought would probably rise to the top of that pile are:

It's Coming
The Stowaway

My personal favourite was It's Coming, but I'd say that The Stowaway will take the Writer's Choice. Like I said in a previous post, no real stand-outs this time round, just a few scripts that did certain things really well.

Lib I tend to say ‘bird’ or ‘chick’ more than ‘sheila’ lol

Quoted from stevie

Lib I tend to say ‘bird’ or ‘chick’ more than ‘sheila’ lol

Stevie, I stand corrected. ;D

The 4 that topped my list

Gondolier
The stowaway
The Libertine
Beyond the sea

Looks like it will be close for sure

Dena and I submitted one. It was slapped together though. I had an idea, she liked it. I don't even have Final Draft anymore, been that long. Thursday while watching the Celts I put together some notes. I finished them Fri morning before heading to Boston for the doctors to find out the results of my scans. What I sent Dena was really just notes, I hoped she could turn it into a script, but she was traveling with her family. From the backseat of the car, she merely converted my notes to script. Later she sent it to me, but by then I was drinking heavily with friends and family to celebrate my good scans. I never saw the draft until Sat. So we apologize for anyone who had to slog through it. The crappy product is my fault not Dena's.

Kinda cool to be back in, though. Been a lot of years. The writing has improved generally. I didn't find any pissers. There were several I read but didn't review because I couldn't find anything constructive to say. I never really understood how "congratulations for finishing the OWC" really helps anyone.

I did learn some things, things that can be applied to any form of storywriting.

1) when possible start with as few named characters as you can and introduce them slowly.
2) when you intro a new character try to have him/her doing some kind of action in that moment. It makes them easier to remember. We often make the mistake of trying to make supporting characters easier to remember by giving them distinct physical characteristics. But what sticks better in the readers mind is to have them performing some action, or involved in some action. I'm not just talking about action pertinent to the story, that's a given. Let's say your opening scene is a high school football team's practice. And you want to intro a secondary character. If he's doing something distinct he'll be easier to remember. Maybe he warms up with ballet moves.
3) clear action is much easier to follow. Like the spider vs the trucker in Stowaway. So what happens when we want to do something more complicated? Maybe an approach is to start with clear, simple action, and then once that's established expand the story.

Thanks for reading our crap!

Quoted from leitskev

Ah! I know which one it is - I won't say in case others haven't figured it out - but I'm sure most of the results are in any way.

The "Congratulations" are usually a sign off after other comments - They are just a pat on the back for taking on a challenge which can be difficult for a lot of writers, me included.

What time are results posted today?

Quoted from Britman

What time are results posted today?

I don't think they are - deadline for submitting scores is today. Gotta give Don time to count 'em up and take out any self votes

My top 4 )no particular order):

Libertine
Reap What You Sow
Stowaway
Rub or Wear

My fave...

Stevie Rubs One Off In Public

I didn't read enough to vote. I thought Stowaway was extremely well written. A writer of that talent should be able to find work doing some kind of writing.

There was another one, I forget the name, maybe Reap What You Sow, where the girl is run over by the tractor, that was a very, very good effort.

Some of the WWII ones were promising concepts that needed another pass on the writing.

Libertine seemed like the work of a sophisticated writer. However, the story is not executed in a way that holds the reader's attention. Also, the story seems to begin by highlighting the superstitions and the racial prejudices of the ship's crew, who think one of the slaves is a witch. But then it confirms their prejudices by supplying the murderous witch. Her killings were justified, but it still tends to uphold the prejudices.

ALL of the ones I read were better than our submission, which is my fault not Dena's, so hopefully I don't sound critical.

Favorite Slug (by far)...

SUBMARINE BEDROOM

2nd favorite Slug...

INT. FRONT WINDOW

Favourite Title: Reap What You Sow

Favourite piece of dialogue:

Quoted Text

RED
You're just an itsy bitsy spider.
...
RED
That went up the wrong water spout.
...
RED
So down came the pain..
...
RED
And blasted that ugly, freak-ofmother-fuckin-nature out!

Favourite WTF moment: The ending of Driving the Relm

Favourite moment of the challenge: Seeing Jeff's comment on my entry and realising that this time, HE MANAGED TO READ THE WHOLE DAMN THING! Woohoo

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

Favourite moment of the challenge: Seeing Jeff's comment on my entry and realising that this time, HE MANAGED TO READ THE WHOLE DAMN THING! Woohoo

Hope I gave it a good review.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Hope I gave it a good review.

Not bad actually - WAY better than the one you gave last OWC

Quoted from Dreamscale

2nd favorite Slug...

INT. FRONT WINDOW

Maybe it was double-pane and the camera was inside? :D

Sometimes silence is not golden...

Dead, Dead, Dead...

Reveal time...

Mine is the SUBMARINE BEDROOM and SUBMARINE KITCHEN. Couldn't resist a little pisser. Sorry, everyone!

Quoted from Dreamscale

Dead, Dead, Dead...

Reveal time...

Mine is the SUBMARINE BEDROOM and SUBMARINE KITCHEN. Couldn't resist a little pisser. Sorry, everyone!

I don't believe you. ;D So far that is the only script I've opened this go around that I couldn't finish. Surely you are joking, right?

Quoted from Dreamscale

Dead, Dead, Dead...

Reveal time...

Mine is the SUBMARINE BEDROOM and SUBMARINE KITCHEN. Couldn't resist a little pisser. Sorry, everyone!

C'mon Jeff.Least you could have added a SUBMARINE SANDWICH
Might have a made a difference, who knows?

INT FRONT DOOR

Zack walks into the submarine, followed by a great white whale. It opens it's huge mouth and eats the shark next to it and then eats some plankton and some sardines and the a big old giant squid eats all of everything that is sat on the ocean floor.

Noah watches form a POV and then a ape and wildebeest eats some fruit.

Voting's closed. I'm going to reveal because I'm clearly not in the running, and I did want to say a few things about my script before The Stowaway is crowned Writer's Choice :)

It's hard to not "defend" your script when people miss some things are are using it as criticism.

No defending from me, just a quick explanation of what I was going for and a thanks :)

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect

It's hard to not "defend" your script when people miss some things are are using it as criticism.

It's a bit hard to know whether they missed it because the writing wasn't clear or if they just didn't read it properly.

If it was an issue that was mentioned more than once, my bet would be on the writing not being clear.

Quoted from Warren

No defending from me, just a quick explanation of what I was going for and a thanks :)

I was referring to my own.

Also it was mainly the reader's fault...but since you hated mine you'd probably say differently...hahaha

Quoted from Warren

If it was an issue that was mentioned more than once, my bet would be on the writing not being clear.

I rarely take any advice given here. Reviewers will copy other reviewers. Some will do it because it's easier than reading the script properly. Others because they feel the reviewer is more knowledgable than they are and don't want to say the opposite. Some are swayed by previous reviews before they even read your script.

The OWC also has a game-playing element to it. Everyone vested in it (most of us) have entered a script and we all want ours to win. So, slating a decent script can help sway others into doing the same.

Take what you hear here with a pinch of salt, IMO.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

I think that's a fair assessment.

I'll say this then, if I said I didn't understand it, it's because I didn't understand it. The reason wouldn't be because I didn't read the script or that I agreed with someone else comments. I very rarely don't finish a script in an OWC unless the subject matter is particularly vile, like a few from the last OWC.

So it comes down to the script not being clear to me, or as Jeff has pointed out several times, I'm not that smart, so I probably just didn't get it.

No reveals yet.

It kinda spoils the fun and there's not too long to go now.

I don't see anything revealing, Warren, and I didn't delete anything either.

Maybe someone else did for fear it might cause a chain reaction. :)

Quoted from Warren

...or as Jeff has pointed out several times, I'm not that smart...

I'd definitely take that with a pinch of salt. With your latest script, my estimation of you as a writer has gone sky high. It's a very smart story. Way more impressive than those easy horrors you were churning out. The reason I marked it down is that I saw the use of child abuse as a tactic. If I go with the pang in my heart, it's a great story, if I go with the knowledge that this is a story device used as a tactic to win an OWC... it's middle-of-the-road.

Quoted from LC

No I didn't see anything, just jumped the gun. My bad.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

I'd definitely take that with a pinch of salt.

I definitely do, I was just being facetious. I very rarely take anything he says onboard and have strongly advised other writers not to either.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

With your latest script, my estimation of you as a writer has gone sky high. It's a very smart story. Way more impressive than those easy horrors you were churning out. The reason I marked it down is that I saw the use of child abuse as a tactic. If I go with the pang in my heart, it's a great story, if I go with the knowledge that this is a story device used as a tactic to win an OWC... it's middle-of-the-road.

Thanks. I was actually just saying to another SS member the other day that I'm quite over writing horror. I'm going to be playing in the comedy and drama pool for awhile I think.

Some very, very excellent notes from LC on the script Reap What You Sow. The writer will be very grateful.

Official word from Don. Votes are in and are being tallied. You can go ahead and out yourselves and respond to your script threads.

Thanks Zack for a great challenge! 8)

It appears Warren has already outed himself, although I don't see it here anywhere.

maybe he just tells other writer buddie which is his, in hopes of getting better reviews, and a "win".

Writers, take note, DO NOT LISTEN TO MY ADVICE...EVER!!!!!

Warren's 2 or 3 lines of feedback will be all you need to become the bestest writer ever!!

The post on his thread was deleted by LC this morning (your night) before Don gave the official OK for the 'outing'. I'll still leave it to Warren to officially reveal his script, as it's not my place to do so.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Gotcha. I know which one's his.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Jeff, I can't tell if you guys are best buddies or sworn enemies. But lots of ball bustation going on between the two of you. :D

Quoted from ericdickson

Jeff, I can't tell if you guys are best buddies or sworn enemies. But lots of ball bustation going on between the two of you. :D

We are not friends...at all.

Warren hates me and thinks everything I have to say is bad advice.

Quoted from Warren

I definitely do, I was just being facetious. I very rarely take anything he says onboard and have strongly advised other writers not to either.

It's all good you not taking his advice - it's obviously completely your decision. Your an accomplished writer with your own style and views.

But it's not very helpful to steer other writers (especially new ones) away from his advice - It's up to them to see the value in it or not.

Don't get me wrong, I do not agree with everything Jeff says, his views on asides/wrylies/stringently sticking to rules/realism:
BUT I would be lying if I said his advice has not helped me. A few times during writing I incorporate it, I think "will Jeff hate this slug?" and most of the time it's a yes, so I change it up.

On the flip side, you have also offered me advice which has helped and continues to help - But I don't agree with everything you say either.

The value in this place is not relying on a single persons advice - but getting as much advice as possible, seeing trends and ultimately making your own decisions on your own writing and stories

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

I'll settle this.  Both Warren and Jeff have pissed me off to the point of wanting to chuck my laptop across the room.

However...

Their criticisms have pushed me to complete a feature draft of my OWC.

I've found their blunt honesty has helped push me to fix mistakes and work on my weaknesses as a writer.

In a way, I find their criticism comes from the heart.  That they actually care.  In contrast to someone like Phil Clarke, Jr. (who is thankfully no longer active) who simply loved the smell of his own farts.

I'm not sure if I should out myself quite yet, but I have finished a feature version of my OWC.  It might explain why it reads like the first 12 pages of a feature and not a short.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

But it's not very helpful to steer other writers (especially new ones) away from his advice - It's up to them to see the value in it or not.

This is my view and advice. Like anything else I say you can either take it or leave it. I've never said that anything I say is gospel, and most of the time I talk about seeing what other writers are doing.

The main issue with Jeff's advice is that he has hard line views on things that aren't really issues.

I think it is especially valuable letting new writers know that the things he often passes off as fact s are generally not the case. Obviously they can make up their own minds.

Release the Kraken!!!

I don't agree with everything you guys told me in your notes, but they did help pinpoint some major problem areas. I've since gone back and did a major overhaul and developed it into a feature.

I've never quite understood the purpose of writing shorts and never spent any real time developing them. And that's pretty evident in my OWC.

Quoted from ericdickson

I'll settle this. Both Warren and Jeff have pissed me off to the point of wanting to chuck my laptop across the room.

Sorry you've felt that way, it's definitely never been my intention to piss a writer off with my reviews.

I feel that I almost always try to.be constructive. I make my notes as I read and a lot of the time I will ask questions of the writer as they come up. I have always thought there was value in letting a writer know what I'm thinking as I go.

One thing I never do is sugarcoat anything. I don't think there is any value in that, but I don't ever go out of my way to be a dick. I've definitely made a joke about a script here and there, sometimes a situation or piece of writing is just begging for it.

And like I just said to Matthew, I don't proclaim to be an expert. I know what has works for me and that's what I share.

Quoted from Warren

As I said in the later portion of my comments, it was actually very helpful in knocking me off my high horse and getting my ass in gear.

So, thanks for that.  :)

My aim is not to piss off, but to enlighten....brings things to light that others don't see for whatever reason.

Mistakes come about in different ways...

Overlooking something because of the deadline - no big deal, but if it sticks out, why not let the writer know?

Not understanding something's wrong - I'll always point out these mistakes, because once the writer gets it, these mistakes won't be made again.

Not understand how to do something - again, let me show you the way.

Not having a clue - well, at times, I may go too far in how I react and what I say, but the intent is to beat it into the writer's head, so they actually want to get a clue and not hear such critique again.

Okay... can I just say, I’ve never lived in a home where the front door isn’t in the living room. I guess it’s a Midwest thing? In my current house you can touch the front door and the sofa at the same time without even stretching. (Whew, that’s been bugging me all week.)

Anyway, thanks for all the great notes on Remote Control.

It’s always fascinating to see the different ways others see your script.

I hate houses with the front door in the living room. I don't know why. I like to have a hallway.

You still can't have INT. FRONT DOOR - though. You can't be inside the front door.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

I hate houses with the front door in the living room. I don't know why. I like to have a hallway.

You still can't have INT. FRONT DOOR - though. You can't be inside the front door.

Did I do INT. FRONT DOOR? (Panic checks script.) Okay, no. Good. You scared me.

Regarding my slug INT/EXT. SUBURBAN HOUSE - LIVING ROOM... I'm still gonna change it. One thing I've learned... you can be technically correct... and still distract the reader. And, that's what I did. I created a page one distraction with a bad (though, technically correct) slug.

My particular challenge was that I wanted a conversation to take place in the doorway as the Det. was leaving, with the mother in the house, and the detective on the porch. I didn't paint a very clear picture of that... and I paid the price.

Another OWC. Another lesson learned.

Sorry... I thought you was referring to something else.

Quoted from PKCardinal

Regarding my slug INT/EXT. SUBURBAN HOUSE - LIVING ROOM... I'm still gonna change it. One thing I've learned... you can be technically correct... and still distract the reader. And, that's what I did. I created a page one distraction with a bad (though, technically correct) slug.

Don't worry too much about it. When you have an actual location it will change to suit the location anyway, and everybody who makes films knows that. It's not up to you to make everything familiar to everyone, this is where "write what you know" comes from. Just make sure it's clear.

Quoted from ReneC

Good point, thanks.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Sorry... I thought you was referring to something else.

All good, everyone needs a good panic once in a while!

Hold off on the reveals, guys. It won't be much longer now.

Quoted from PKCardinal

Interesting.

In the house I lived in growing up, our door lead to stairs, one leading up to the living room / kitchen, the other leading to the basement.

My current house, the door opens to the kitchen/living room. Not close enough to touch from a couch though, just a small standing space with a closet. A few steps forward you're in the kitchen, a few steps to the left, you're in the living room.

Quoted from Zack

Hold off on the reveals, guys. It won't be much longer now.

Hmmm...I thought someone just said to go ahead with outing ourselves. I just did for A Pinch. Oh well....

Quoted from JEStaats

Hmmm...I thought someone just said to go ahead with outing ourselves. I just did for A Pinch. Oh well....

I did. All the votes are in and Don is adding them all up. :)

Sorry Zack. Thought you were busy.

Quoted from PKCardinal

Front doors are commonly in the Living Room. You do not need a separate header for that nor add a foyer, lobby or whatever. It was perfectly clear as you had it.

The guidance you got on mini-slugs was incorrect as well. You are allowed to have them even though time may have passed. i.e., they can be used even though the action is not continuous. This from Trottier (a pretty good source).

Quoted Text

You do not need a new master scene heading for a change in time, but you will for a change in camera location from interior to exterior or vice versa.

The only time you probably should not use them for a change in time is when that time has gone from DAY to NIGHT or vice versa. The reason obvious there - the time in the master scene heading would no longer be relevant to the mini-slug.

Quoted from Dreamscale

My aim is not to piss off, but to enlighten....brings things to light that others don't see for whatever reason.

Due respect, but while making many valid points, you continue to point out things that are errors that are not errors.

Quoted from Dreamscale

.

Writers, take note, DO NOT LISTEN TO MY ADVICE...EVER!!!!!

You give advice? ;D

Quoted from Zack

Hold off on the reveals, guys. It won't be much longer now.

Everyone knows what I wrote.
And I ain't confirmed squat yet.

One more thing that's bothering me.  I used Trelby for the first time and it automatically quadruple spaced in between scenes.

I got called out for incorrect spacing by folks who are double spacing in between scenes.  It's THREE spaces in between.  Not two.

Unfortunately, I did not realize my spacing was off until I uploaded.  SMH.  Oops :(

Quoted from DarrenJamesSeeley

Everyone knows what I wrote.

I don't.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

I don't.

Not a damn clue.

Quoted from ericdickson

I also use Trelby and have been called out on the spacing (always by the same person) but I'm a slave to the product. There's so much about it I like that we'll just have to get over it. Besides, it's free!

Quoted from eldave1

Front doors are commonly in the Living Room. You do not need a separate header for that nor add a foyer, lobby or whatever. It was perfectly clear as you had it.

Quoted from eldave1

The guidance you got on mini-slugs was incorrect as well. You are allowed to have them even though time may have passed. i.e., they can be used even though the action is not continuous. This from Trottier (a pretty good source).

"allowed to" - Ha! Really? That's funny. Sounds like a rule thing.

If time has passed and you use a Mini Slug, you're opening yourself up to trouble, because any time that time passes, in which we are not privy to what has happened in that passed time, it's unclear...as in everything is unclear.

Keep in mind, scripts are not visual...we can't see clues that we could in a filmed version. This is why Slugs are so important to set each scene.

If you have a scene in a bedroom where a character is putting clothes on and you immediately go to a Mini Slug of Kitchen and that same character is nude and having sex with a goat, something is obviously off, as there is no connection whatsoever.

Quoted from eldave1

Oh boy...

I think it's fair to say that front doors commonly open up into living rooms just as it is to say they open into hallways. Both are common. One may be more common than the other, but that is by the by.

Quoted from Zack

Hold off on the reveals, guys. It won't be much longer now.

Sorry.

I thought we were given the green light! My bad.

Quoted from JEStaats

Ctrl Enter will auto space it for you. Three spaces. I googled it ;D

Quoted from Dreamscale

Front doors are not commonly in a living room.  WTF?  Front doors usually open up to some sort of foyer, front hall.

If you're talking about an apartment or tiny little house, sure, it can open up into any room.

"allowed to" - Ha!  Really?  That's funny.  Sounds like a rule thing.

If time has passed and you use a Mini Slug, you're opening yourself up to trouble, because any time that time passes, in which we are not privy to what has happened in that passed time, it's unclear...as in everything is unclear.

Keep in mind, scripts are not visual...we can't see clues that we could in a filmed version.  This is why Slugs are so important to set each scene.

If you have a scene in a bedroom where a character is putting clothes on and you immediately go to a Mini Slug of Kitchen and that same character is nude and having sex with a goat, something is obviously off, as there is no connection whatsoever.

Oh boy...

How can you be wrong so often?

Front Doors

Very common to open into Living Rooms especially in the mid to north east sections of the country.  I've lived in three of them.  I'll add this from Quora:

In the US many homes have two doors, one is the front door, where guests come in, the other is either a backdoor, or a door that leads directly into the garage. In either case, the second door is used mostly by the actual occupants and commonly enters into a mud room or similar space for storing coats and shoes. The front door, because it is for guests, tends to enter either into a living room or into a foyer space which is connected to several common rooms of the house (living room, dining room, kitchen).

So for shits and giggles - let's say 30% of houses have the front door open into the Living Room. Fuck - let's drop it to 5% just to make the point. Guess what - 100% of the front doors in the Remote Control script opened up into the Living Room because that is how the writer fucking wrote it. If the writer wanted a Foyer or a Hallway he would have added it one. Most importantly - IT IS NOT AN ERROR FOR HIM NOT TO.

MINI-SLUGS

1) "Allowed to" as in THERE IS NO RULE AGAINST IT.
2) Think I'll go with Trottier over you.
3) Your reasoning is inane. i.e.,

If time has passed and you use a Mini Slug, you're opening yourself up to trouble, because any time that time passes, in which we are not privy to what has happened in that passed time, it's unclear...as in everything is unclear.

This may the most convoluted thing I've read on the subject.

We must be privy to everything that happened in between min-slugs or it's unclear???

Dude - are we privy to everything that happens between Full Scene Headings ????? No!!

INT. DINER - DAY

Dave at a table.

INT.  CAR - NIGHT

Dave at the wheel.

OMG - what happened in between the Diner and the Car. I'm not privy to that data - me head is spinning with confusion.  Sarcastic way of saying - don't apply a made up standard to mini-slugs that you wouldn't require of full ones.

4) The specific script was clear.

I don't think anyone was confused by the space-time continuum by the use of mini-slugs in the script. No one was - KITCHEN - OMG! how the fok did we get here???? It was as clear as good be.

Finally - if for some reason the writer thought the passage of time was unclear (which in this case it was clearly not) - they merely can modify the mini-slug to something like:

KITCHEN - MOMENTS LATER

rather than a full header

INT. SUBURBAN HOME -  KITCHEN  - DAY

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Yes - Jeff somehow thinks it's if as the front door opened into the bathroom.

How did this whole conversation even start?

What did I say and where and what's the fucking big deal?

I'm not sure what we're even talking about here, but as for Mini Slugs, the assumption for omitting a time element is because they are continuous scenes, or happening at the same time.

Maybe we should just omit all time elements unless we change from day to night. Yeah...let's go with that! No more time elements needed once the time is set.

Quoted from ericdickson

Not a damn clue.

Me three.

Quoted from PKCardinal

I've been pulled up in the past about this kind of thing before as well. I had a similar issue in my current entry, so I made it abundantly clear by saying something to the extent of " the back door, which exits off the kitchen", I was worried that if I went from the kitchen to the door or outside people would lose their minds.

When do we see the results?

I’m thinking of turning mine into a feature. A lot of room to do so.

Quoted from PKCardinal

One thing I've learned... you can be technically correct... and still distract the reader. And, that's what I did. I created a page one distraction with a bad (though, technically correct) slug.

This is very true. I always try play it as safe as possible when it comes to clarity. I still fail but I try and remove or rewrite any part that gives me pause and makes me question something about it.

Quoted from Dreamscale

The better question is how did it start and why did it continue.

Living Room Issue

It started with your comments on the Remote Control script. Specifically:

Quoted Text

Hmmm, the front door is in the living room?

Then in this thread Paul said:

Quoted Text

Then I replied:

Quoted Text

Front doors are commonly in the Living Room. You do not need a separate header for that nor add a foyer, lobby or whatever. It was perfectly clear as you had it.

Then you replied with this inane comment:

Quoted Text

Front doors are not commonly in a living room. WTF? Front doors usually open up to some sort of foyer, front hall.

Which was factually incorrect AND irrelevant as in this story the front door was in the living room. None of that would be needed if you (a) didn't make the silly comment in the first place or (b) respond to my response to Paul with some inaccurate diatribe about where doors are located. Now, the silly comment in the first place is certainly understandable - we all do that. All of us. What you do is defend silly with more silly. i.e., in this case rather than simply writing - my bad - you provide an inaccurate architectural summary on front door locations. Because you are interested in front doors??? No. Because you defend every comment you make - right or wrong - to the very end.

So - that's how we got there on the doors.

Mini-Slugs

Started with your comment on Remote Control.

Quoted Text

So, let's quickly discuss Mini Slugs - the reason they don't require a time element is because the assumption is that they are continuous scenes...or scenes taking place at the same time as a scene in another room in the structure. In reality, I don't think this is the case here, but I doubt anyone would notice or bring this up, but me.

And this -

Quoted Text

End of page 2/top of Page 3 - Here's a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier, in terms of the Mini Slugs - The way you've written this, with the Mini, will play out like this - Ashley grabs the photo, while in the Hallway. New scene in Kitchen, where she immediately smashes it. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Then in this thread - as an add on to Paul's comment related to doors - I said the advice on mini-slugs was incorrect as well.

Then you responded with another inaccurate made up standard regarding information we are not privy too.

I responded to that.

Then you responded with this:

Quoted Text

I'm not sure what we're even talking about here, but as for Mini Slugs, the assumption for omitting a time element is because they are continuous scenes, or happening at the same time.

Maybe we should just omit all time elements unless we change from day to night. Yeah...let's go with that! No more time elements needed once the time is set.

Which is another classic Jeff misdirection.  Needed because it is just to difficult to say - ooops.

Your misdirection - No one has argued for the elimination of time elements in headers.

Your premise on mini-slugs being only used for continuous scenes, or happening at the same exact time is wrong - dead wrong.  I've already quoted you pretty reliable source on that - do you need others?

So - that is how we got here.

Jeff, my final advice to you here would be this. Focus less on nit rules and more on macro objectives. For example, CLARITY is a macro-level writing objective.  Mini-slugs is a nit rule.

So - were you really unclear is to what was happening in the script. If the answer is yea - there was a clarity issue -  then sure - tell the writer that his use of a specific mini-slug created some clarity issues for you (let's say you were confused on how much time passed from the hallway to the kitchen).  That's better guidance then mini-slugs are incorrect. 1) because they were not and 2) the mini-slug could be modified to provide clarity (rather than using a whole header).

Quoted from JEStaats

Just literally upgraded to Final Draft 11 from version 10 yesterday. I haven't typed a thing on it yet, but damn it looks pretty.

I absolutely love Final Draft, I've been with it since version 8. It's a fantastic product.

Quoted from Grandma Bear

I did. All the votes are in and Don is adding them all up. :)

Sorry Zack. Thought you were busy.

No problem. :)

I've been extremely busy. But I FINALLY got a couple of days off. ;D ;D

I'm really very happy with how this OWC turned out. Much more participation than my Scarefest OWC I did a few years back.

Dave, where's all the anger coming from, brother?  Calm your old arse down...we don't want you to have a heart attack or something.

In terms of my "silly" comment on Paul's script, as you quoted, I simply asked a question as to where the front door was.  That's all I did on the script thread, correct?

The bigger issue in the script was the use of INT/EXT LIVING ROOM.  Just looking at such a Slug should give one a notion that something's wrong with it.  As in, it just doesn't make any sense.  How can one be inside the living room and outside the living room in the same scene?

As per my "silly" comments on Mini Slugs and defending what I said earlier, I'll continue to defend it. You say that no one said anything about omitting time elements - well...you're saying it by saying Mini Slugs are just fine to use when time has passed.  In fact, I think you said the only time it's not right is if it's changed from day to night or night to day.  Mini Slug away!!

Don't you get it?  OK, so now, I've got Paul's script open and am looking at bottom of Page 2, top of page 3, and I see exactly what I was referring to, and what you quoted.

You don't see the issue here?  The issue is to view the action, as it's written.

As it's written, Ashley grabs a photo in the hallway.  End of scene.

Next scene - Ashley smashes the photo in the kitchen.  Then, she suddenly has a scissors in her hands, and she cuts the photo in half.

You don't see anything wrong here?

BTW, I said outright on the Remote Control thread, that it was my favorite of the bunch.  Give me a fucking break, dude!

In our house, the front door opens right into a living room. In fact, I've never lived in a house or apartment that had a mud room. My brother has bought three houses in the last 5 years. One opened into a living room, the other two into a kind of hallway.

As far as the minislug debate, it's interesting. I did learn it the way Jeff is explaining it(I might have learned it from Jeff actually, lol). It does make sense logically. I propose that maybe it makes perfect sense to apply the time/continuity rule if the script is intended as something closer to a shooting draft.

If it's a pure spec script, it shouldn't matter at all. In fact, for years I have been moving in a different direction on this. What matters...and generally is the only thing that matters...is grabbing the reader, holding her, and making her think this would look great on film. With that being the goal, readability is a huge factor. Mini-slugs are not used because the writer can't be bothered to form a proper slug. They are used because it's easier to read.

That said, looking at the script, I think I would actually follow Jeff's advice on this one. I don't know. It doesn't bother me the way it's written, but I don't think it would slow the read by making a full slug since we don't see her walk to the living room or drink the wine. The new slug would make us more alert to the fact that time has passed...a bottle's worth of time.

I appreciate Dave's frustration with Jeff's concept of strict rules...God I appreciate it...but Jeff does have a keen eye for these things and sometimes his suggestions are the best way to go.

Mini slugs are fine to use when time has passed.

LATER is a mini slug.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Mini slugs are fine to use when time has passed.

This.

The next OWC must be the front door challenge.

Mini slugs only.

I'm in, Mark. Down with slugs! In with minis. Let the revolution begin.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

LATER is a mini slug.

Yes, LATER is a Mini Slug, but it's also a perfectly clear Mini Slug, in that we know we're still in the exact same location, but time has passed...and that's what's key here.

My frustrations with Dave (and Warren, on recent discussions) is that they seem to think if something is OK in a certain situation, then it's OK in every situation, and that's just not true.

Too many wrylies is too many wrylies.

Using Mini Slugs whenever the Hell you feel like it, is not the way to go.

The "intent" of a Mini Slug is to show that no time has passed, or that things in different rooms are happening at the same time.

Peeps may frown on the time element of "MOMENTS LATER", but not only is it perfectly OK, it's actually a big help to the reader. take this example...

INT BATHROOM - NIGHT

Erin steps out of the shower, exposing a fucking hotass body, grabs a towel.

INT. BEDROOM - MOMENTS LATER

Erin pulls a sweatshirt over her much more than abundant breasts, heads out the door.

We know from the Slug that time has passed, and Erin has obviously dried off, done whatever she does to make herself beautiful, and she's ready to head out.

Now, check this out...

INT BATHROOM - NIGHT

Erin steps out of the shower, exposing a fucking hotass body, grabs a towel.

BEDROOM

Marty climbs into bed, a smile on his face.

In the 2nd example, using a Mini Slug shows that Marty is climbing into bed, as Erin is drying off in the bathroom.

Get it?

Quoted from leitskev

I'm in, Mark. Down with slugs! In with minis. Let the revolution begin.

Mini Slugs, wrylies, and asides only in every script from now on!!

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

The next OWC must be the front door challenge.

Mini slugs only.

I think I broke SimplyScripts.

BTW - https://gointothestory.blcklst.com/there-are-no-screenwriting-rules-cec80d9c112a

Quoted from PKCardinal

I think I broke SimplyScripts.

First it’s my script...then it’s yours.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Mini Slugs, wrylies, and asides only in every script from now on!!

I'm not going to get into a back and forth today as I'm going hiking in a little while, but no one has ever advocated for something like this, yet you continue to say things like what I quoted.

We say use wrylies with purpose, you say fill the script with them.

We say an orphan may come at the end of the best possible version of your action, you say fill the script with them.

We say a well used aside can enhance the story, you say fill the script with them.

It's hard to debate with these irrational suggestions because they are so far from what has actually been said. But this is your way, if it can't just make sense, blow it way out of proportion so that it seems ridiculous.

Congrats on your 4 star rating from Jeff :) It was definitely up there with the real contenders.

Well it's midnight here in the UK and I can wait for the results no longer. I'll be back after a few hours sleep to congratulate Stowaway.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Quoted Text

In terms of my "silly" comment on Paul's script, as you quoted, I simply asked a question as to where the front door was. That's all I did on the script thread, correct?

Would have been perfectly fine if you left it there. But you didn't/couldn't. Instead, you had to provide some inaccurate info on where front doors are located.

Quoted Text

The bigger issue in the script was the use of INT/EXT LIVING ROOM...

I never mentioned this. I have no disagreement with your view on it. I think you're right.

Quoted Text

As per my "silly" comments on Mini Slugs and defending what I said earlier, I'll continue to defend it. You say that no one said anything about omitting time elements - well...you're saying it by saying Mini Slugs are just fine to use when time has passed. In fact, I think you said the only time it's not right is if it's changed from day to night or night to day. Mini Slug away!!

To answer your first question, this is where the frustration (not anger) comes from. Your misdirection in responses continues to clutter and make discussion on these issues far more difficult then they should be.

I said - no one said anything about eliminating time elements from headers (full scene headings). Why did I have to waste time with that - well, because of your misdirection argument - i.e., that if one believes that it's not important element for a mini-slug ergo it must not be an important for a scene header - let's eliminate them. So now we are discussing full headers (which was never the foking point) because you want to escape down this road rather than address the issue at hand.

In terms of Paul's script (sorry Paul): Here it is.

Quoted Text

INT. SUBURBAN HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - NIGHT

Ashley wakes. Checks her phone. Tosses it aside.

HALLWAY

Ashley leans, her forehead against a door. A handmade sign
on the door shows a child’s drawing: A CAR, A STICK FIGURE, A
NAME, JUSTIN.

A picture hangs in the hallway: A MAN, 34, A BOY, JUSTIN, 8.
ON A CONSTRUCTION SITE. MATCHING SMILES, MATCHING
CONSTRUCTION HELMETS.

Ashley grabs the photo.

KITCHEN

Ashley smashes the photo on the corner of the table.
She rips the picture from the frame, oblivious to the broken
glass that cuts her fingers.

Using scissors, she violently cuts the photo in half,
splitting the two figures.

There is no place in this sequence where a full scene heading is required or where the use of the mini-slug was incorrect - and, most importantly, it was perfectly clear what was going on. Ashley took the photo from the Hallway into the Kitchen.

You argue that min-slugs have to be absolutely continuous (this was part of your what we are and are not privy too diatribe). So, to meet that standard and it would half to be something like:
(new stuff bolded)

INT. SUBURBAN HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - NIGHT

Ashley wakes. Checks her phone. Tosses it aside.

She jumps out of bed and sprints into the --

HALLWAY

Ashley leans, her forehead against a door. A handmade sign
on the door shows a child’s drawing: A CAR, A STICK FIGURE, A
NAME, JUSTIN.

A picture hangs in the hallway: A MAN, 34, A BOY, JUSTIN, 8.
ON A CONSTRUCTION SITE. MATCHING SMILES, MATCHING
CONSTRUCTION HELMETS.

Ashley grabs the photo. She heads towards the -

STAIRS

And hustles down them until she reaches the --

LIVING ROOM

Trips on the rug as she makes her way to the

KITCHEN

Ashley smashes the photo on the corner of the table.
She rips the picture from the frame, oblivious to the broken
glass that cuts her fingers.

Christ What an unnecessarily cluttered piece that would be. What's the other option - full headers. Here we go.

INT. SUBURBAN HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - NIGHT

Ashley wakes. Checks her phone. Tosses it aside.

INT. SUBURBAN HOUSE - HALLWAY - NIGHT

Ashley leans, her forehead against a door. A handmade sign
on the door shows a child’s drawing: A CAR, A STICK FIGURE, A
NAME, JUSTIN.

A picture hangs in the hallway: A MAN, 34, A BOY, JUSTIN, 8.
ON A CONSTRUCTION SITE. MATCHING SMILES, MATCHING
CONSTRUCTION HELMETS.

Ashley grabs the photo. She heads towards the -

INT. SUBURBAN HOUSE - KITCHEN NIGHT

Ashley smashes the photo on the corner of the table.
She rips the picture from the frame, oblivious to the broken
glass that cuts her fingers.

Which would not at all be an improvement over the original nor would it provide any more clarity on the amount of time that has passed.

So, I'll try one more time - to use a mini-slug it does not have to be linearly continuous action (i.e., you do not need to be privy to each specific step on the character's journey in order to allow for their use). i.e., you are wrong about when is is appropriate to use mini-slugs. If you were confused by the sequence in Paul's script - the advice should not be akin to you are using mini-slugs incorrectly - it should be - hey. I was confused about the time that elapsed when she went to the kitchen - maybe the mini-slug should be:

KITCHEN - MOMENTS LATER

Now, I'm sure your next mis-direction - like it often is - will be something akin to - fine, use mini-slugs for your entire script!! which of course will be further and further from the original point.

But I will give you an out because you're still a mate, Jeff.

All you have to so is say:

Yes, it's okay to use mini-slugs for non-continuous actions. I was wrong about the information we are not privy to thing - there are tons of things in scripts we are not privy too.

What I really mean is that if you are going to use mini-slugs make sure they provide clarity and that the non-use of a full header doesn't provide confusion

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

BTW - https://gointothestory.blcklst.com/there-are-no-screenwriting-rules-cec80d9c112a

Indeed!

So Beyond the Sea was indeed mine.

Glad to see some people liked it.

Not going to quote you, Dave, but my point is till exactly the same and you still aren't getting it.

Mini Slugs, by intent means that since there isn't a time element, one is to assume no time has elapsed - or - the action in the new room is taking place at the same time.

Go back to exactly what I said in my last post about exactly what is written is exactly what a reader should envision and tell me if that's the way it should be written. Seriously. Do that and you can have an out, by saying, Yeah, Jeff, I see what you're talking about now. We cool, brother.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Mini Slugs, by intent means that since there isn't a time element, one is to assume no time has elapsed - or - the action in the new room is taking place at the same time.

This is incorrect and bad advice to any writer.

I have already quoted one source (Trottier) that disputes your premise. - there are many others if you need them.

Can you provide one source on your claim? i.e., mini-slugs should be limited to instances where no time has passed.

Quoted from eldave1

Dave, how about common fucking sense?

If there's no time element, what does that mean to you?

Or, are you saying that time elements aren't necessary?

Dave - you know he likes it?

Quoted from Dreamscale

Dave, how about common fucking sense?

If there's no time element, what does that mean to you?

Or, are you saying that time elements aren't necessary?

So - no source?

Quoted from eldave1

So - no source?

Do you need a source for 2+2 = 4?

Quoted from Dreamscale

Do you need a source for 2+2 = 4?

It's not common sense to me. Common sense to me is that the passage of time is often implied and easily deduced from how a writer crafts the scene - i.e., what you are saying to me is 2+2= 3.

So, yeah I need a source.

Quoted from eldave1

Sad...so sad how peeps need to a "source" to do something.  You all talk about me sporting rules and I never, ever do that.

Break away from the sheep.  DO what's right.  Do what makes sense.

Who fucking cares what some "guru" says.  Does it make sense?  Fuck...don't be sheep!!!  Be a wolf...a FUCKING wolf!!!

Quoted from Dreamscale

Dave or Warren has never ever said or implied this:

Quoted Text

If something is OK in a certain situation, then it's OK in every situation,

You've been corrected on this too many times to count and you know it is not true. It's akin to me me saying - Jeff believes that if something is wrong in certain situations, then it is wrong in every situation.

And again - it is merely a misdirection.

I do not believe nor have ever stated that:

Use wrylies whenever you want as many as you want.

Use Mini Slugs whenever the Hell you feel like it.

Again - misdirection.

Quoted Text

The "intent" of a Mini Slug is to show that no time has passed, or that things in different rooms are happening at the same time

Wrong. That is not the intent nor the restriction.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood

Dave - you know he likes it?

I do. And --

Sometimes I just need something to do while I have writer's block :)

Quoted from Dreamscale

Aside from the fact that you are the Joffrey Baratheon of rules (Jeffrey Baratheon?),

This the best guidance you've ever given.

Quoted from eldave1

Aside from the fact that you are the Joffrey Baratheon of rules (Jeffrey Baratheon?),

This the best guidance you've ever given.

Thank you. And, fuck you. I'm done.

Do whatever the fuck you want to and please, do not ever listen to antything I have to say.

Quoted from Dreamscale

Do whatever the fuck you want to and please, do not ever listen to antything I have to say.

Followed by more good advice. On a roll

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

*Pat's himself on the back*

I may not be able to write anything you guys like, but I seem to be able to guess the writers lol only 1 of them was wrong

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

*Pat's himself on the back*

I may not be able to write anything you guys like, but I seem to be able to guess the writers lol only 1 of them was wrong

You had me worried when you posted that. I was like, how the fuck did he guess that? !

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

You had me worried when you posted that. I was like, how the fuck did he guess that? !

Mainly a stab in the dark lol but having read some of your stuff I thought the gangler creatures seemed like a good fit to be your brain child

Quoted from Matthew Taylor

*Pat's himself on the back*

I may not be able to write anything you guys like, but I seem to be able to guess the writers lol only 1 of them was wrong

Yeah you got me as well. Good guessing.

Yeah, I have no idea how you did that Matthew... I've been on the site for a while now and I'm still rubbish at guessing who wrote what!

Quoted from AnthonyCawood

Yeah, I have no idea how you did that Matthew... I've been on the site for a while now and I'm still rubbish at guessing who wrote what!

For a while I thought you had written 'I Dream of the Devil' but changed my mind towards the end - I've read a few of your shorts as well so little things tipped me off - solid writing, bold slugs, signing off with The End etc

Dustin's was the easiest to guess but I won't give away his tell so as not to out him for future OWC.

Well done, Matt. Maybe it's a Brummie thing? Please PM me my tell. I'd really like to know.

As a poker player I am now concerned ;-)

Gonna switch software for the next one, drop The End, use no Bold, or wrylies or Orphans... then everyone will think it's someone else ;-)

Quoted from AnthonyCawood

As a poker player I am now concerned ;-)

Gonna switch software for the next one, drop The End, use no Bold, or wrylies or Orphans... then everyone will think it's someone else ;-)

I play about three poker tournaments a week out here in L.A. - fun hobby. And just like poker, writers have their tells. At least those tells don't cost them money.

I used to play regularly Dave, but more online than live, great 'hobby' ;-)

Quoted from AnthonyCawood

I used to play regularly Dave, but more online than live, great 'hobby' ;-)

Indeed - I used to play FullTilt before it was banned here in the States - now I prefer live play - found a local casino where I know most the guys now so it's like the world's biggest home game.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood

As a poker player I am now concerned ;-)

Gonna switch software for the next one, drop The End, use no Bold, or wrylies or Orphans... then everyone will think it's someone else ;-)

Yeah, good idea. I'm also going to write mine in braille to throw people off the scent.

eldave1, I'm looking forward to juicer poker on the Strip once the Raiders begin football in Vegas. If we ever meet at the final table be sure to bring your tells with you. LOL

I used to play of FullTilt but now generally stick to Pokerstars for my occasional games.

Maybe we'll get to play one day Dave, Aces... hopefully my tells will be less obvious ;-)

I used to love playing on PKR, before it shut down. Nothing compares to the 3D experience of sitting around the table with a bunch of avatars emoting over poker. It was a much more realistic pace, too.

Quoted from CrackedAces

eldave1, I'm looking forward to juicer poker on the Strip once the Raiders begin football in Vegas. If we ever meet at the final table be sure to bring your tells with you. LOL

It's a deal

One of the heated debates that popped out of this particular OWC (and is still going on in various threads) was reason. What was the reason for the horror, the monster, the thing that happened?

Isn’t horror, by very definition, a lack of reason? A giant spider-zombie attacks. Part of the horror is not understanding how such a thing could be possible. It’s hard to deny something is real when it’s trying to eat you. Folks want a reason for the zombie-spider, so you hint at a secret military experiment gone horribly wrong. Is that any more satisfying? I don’t think so, that’s just a tired cliché.

Part of horror is taking the world you think you know, you think you understand and turning it on its head. The human race is a tiny spec of sand on a vast beach that stretches for eternity, yet we have the arrogance to think we know what occurs on the other side of the beach.

H.P. Lovecraft understood this. His Cthulu Mythos stories basically just said there could be untold horrors throughout the universe beyond our comprehension and we are screwed if any of them realise we exist.

This isn’t me ranting and telling you all to just accept any plot point in a Horror btw – this is hopefully the beginning of a discussion. What do you think is an acceptable level of explanation in a horror screenplay? When do you think (and under what circumstances) the audience’s suspension of disbelief will snap? And when do you think the explanation is either poor or goes too far, in that it explains too much and takes some of the horror element away?

Mark, I honestly think this question only comes up in OWCs... and purely because it gives the reader a reason to dislike the story. If it wasn't an OWC, they'd accept the story for what it is and probably give some good advice instead.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

I don't agree, a story that doesn't make sense for me is always going to be less satisfying.

I have made similar comments on non OWC scripts, and my advise has been the same; give it meaning, give the characters purpose.

I'm not saying a story that isn't explained isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea, but it's not going to be mine.

This is all personal opinion of course.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

So this is obviously my debate, a thread that was locked because it got so out of hand. I brought my opinions and I stand by them.

I don't think horror by the very definition is a lack of reason, I think some horrors can have thin storylines and those are the ones I personally tend to enjoy less, and I'm a horror fan.

A lot of horror comes with set rules already, we have an understanding of how zombies, vampires, werewolves, ghosts, and demons tend to work. This is from years of building these ideas. Sure some act differently but for the most part there are common links.

I know nothing about a gangler, it's completely new to me, I don't know the 'rules' by which it operates, why it does what it does and how it decides on a victim. Like I said in a feature this can be fleshed out, in a short it's a lot harder.

I don't think everything needs to be explained to death through exposition but I personally want to know why things are happening, and I think you'll find that in most, what I would consider good, horror there is a reason stuff is going on.

H.P. Lovecraft's work was used in this OWC and I didn't get it. So while he might have been great in his time and maybe still is now, I'm still going to want a story with meaning.

So you aren't telling us just to accept a plot, but what are you telling us? I think the really subjective part of all of this is who decides how much explanation is enough. I want understanding, you're happy to go with it because to you think that's what horror is, it's completely personal.

I don't think the explanation ever needs to take away from the horror, I don't quite understand the link you're drawing there? Care to elaborate?

I'll just add that I started this discussion initially because I think it's an interesting point to hash out, and I still do. I think the issue is that people really are going to have massively varied points of view based on their personal taste, so it would be impossible to get anything other than what people's personal breaking point is.

Quoted from Warren

I don't agree, a story that doesn't make sense for me is always going to be less satisfying.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the need for everything within a story to be explained.

I read a story about vampires, I know they don't exist, so no explanation could ever make sense. I alter my perception of what makes sense to suit the world created by the writer.

Sometimes a story is very good despite the fact it breaks a rule, and sometimes it's good BECASUSE it breaks a rule.

Most of us like to have what's going on in a story be something that is eventually made clear. One of the defining characteristic of lesser writers is that things are unclear in their stories.

However, in the hands of a gifted writer lack of clarity CAN be used to spark intriguing questions.

The only rule is that a story must seize and hold our attention, and ideally leave something that lingers in the memory. If a story leaves one with questions, whether those questions annoy or intrigue depends on the skill of the storyteller.

As far as what is horror, man, I remember that debate here years ago. It will never end. Personally, I think the definition should be broad enough to include ghost stories, slash, monsters, etc. There is no way to have one definition.

Quoted from Warren

H.P. Lovecraft's work was used in this OWC and I didn't get it. So while he might have been great in his time and maybe still is now, I'm still going to want a story with meaning.

Enlighten yourself, Warren. Read a book. You can do it!

Quoted from Warren

So you aren't telling us just to accept a plot, but what are you telling us? I think the really subjective part of all of this is who decides how much explanation is enough. I want understanding, you're happy to go with it because to you think that's what horror is, it's completely personal.

I'll decide how much explanation is enough, Warren. Next time you're not sure if there is enough explanation in a script, just ask me, and I'll let you know.

Quoted from Warren

I don't think the explanation ever needs to take away from the horror, I don't quite understand the link you're drawing there? Care to elaborate?

I'm not surprised you don't understand, Warren. That's pretty much par for the course.

The original discussion was two-tiered and not whether we needed to understand the background on monsters. To over-simplify, for a good story/script:

1. Should the characters have clear goals and motivations and thing happening for a reason.

2. When writers create a certain world, should the readers have an understanding of that world and the related monsters, etc.

My opinion.

For # 1, regardless of genre, for me the answer is yes. That being said, you don't have to hit someone over the head with it. In Stowaway, we know our protag is a run of the mill gruff driver delivering avocados. In Libertine, our protag is delivering slaves. Good enough for understanding the character motivations.

The one area I thought Stowaway could have done better in terms of issue # 1 was the opening phone dialogue from Red. It needed more explanation - Red is angry at a guy for some reason, wants an apology from him, and ain't delivering shit  until he gets it. Throughout the story I kept thinking what promise was broken, who was that dude Red was talking to - that background was never provided and thus made the story a tad less rewarding for me.

Back to the point - sometimes character motivations and goals are easily implied.  We know why someone is captaining a slave ship. Why someone is driving a delivery truck.

Conversely, if those characters are in worlds that are not commonly understood then I think the writer needs to do more in terms of their goals and motivations.

For # 2

There are some monsters that are rooted in common knowledge and additional detail is not required. Conversely, some or not and detail is required.

If you are writing a vampire script - much of the groundwork is already laid out for you. But imagine that you are writing the first vampire script ever. If you have your vampire running home in a panic to get there before sunrise - you're going to need to explain to the reader why.

I would also add this. To me it is always better to satisfy 1 and 2.  IMO, Horrors tend to meet these goals more than any other genre and it is one of the reasons I personally don't enjoy them.

- People doing ever day normal stuff.
- A horrific monster comes out of nowhere and kills them.

Ugh.

Oh - PS

I've never read a "Lovecraft" script - at least that I know of. If there is a requirement that one must understand Lovecraft n order to understand an OWC Lovecraft based script - well, that script isn't probably going to score well with me because by definition I will not understand it.

Horror is being uncomfortable. It could be tension, it could be gore, it could be our fears realized on screen. Usually all of the above.

The one thing that horror must have is a sense of hope. Hope that survival is possible, hope that the protagonist has a chance to win, hope that the creature can be defeated. Even if that hope is ultimately crushed, it has to be there or we won't invest ourselves in the characters.

When it comes to creature horror, if we don't know the rules or it seems like the creature can do anything, we don't know what to hope for. Most creature horrors hold off on the creature's full potential until the climax, doling out glimpses and fragments of its abilities to thwart early attempts to beat it or escape it. If the creature is fully established early, the rules are also established early and the story becomes learning how to overcome something seemingly impossible to beat.

What irks horror fans most is when the rules are established and then broken. It's one thing to withhold a creature's power and reveal it at a crucial moment, but to reverse something that was established earlier to make the creature harder to beat is a no no. And yet it happens all the time.

The reason we keep seeing the same creatures (vampires, werewolves, zombies, etc.) is because we no longer have to explain the rules, we just have to demonstrate which set of rules these ones follow. If it's a new creature, then you have to give some context because the audience expects it, and rightfully so. But defining the rules doesn't mean you have to explain them. You probably shouldn't explain them. You just need to stick to them.

Lovecraft is an example of leaving hope intact until the full scope of the creature is revealed. Then all hope is crushed, and that's the point. For the shorts in the OWC, they focused on the ending but the horror and hope leading up to it was weaker. For the ganglers, I thought the creatures were explained enough to get them, I just had a hard time picturing them.

The question of the value of making a script readable is linked to the issue of clarity. No one likes to be confused when reading something, it's not enjoyable.

A couple of points on clarity.

One, how much rope the reader gives the story varies. If you are an established pro writer, the reader will give you the benefit of the doubt and read more carefully than if you are an unknown amateur. And if it's OWC, some people(myself included) might have a tendency to read too quick. We can miss things that shouldn't be missed and really aren't the writer's fault. But a writer has to keep this stuff in mind when creating the script. Who will be reading it? How much rope will they give you?

Two, when it comes to clarity, it's only the relevant things that really NEED to be clear. If in the Stowaway the truck driver suddenly pulls over on the road, takes photos of wildlife, and then gets back in goes on his way, we'll be asking why he just did that. But for the purposes of the story I didn't really need to know what his cargo was, where he was heading, what type of music he likes or how the spiders mutated.

At first glance, the appearance at the end of the monster spider is over the top. However, it's not out of the blue. The actions of the little spider tell us we're not dealing with an ordinary spider. There is something supernatural or super-evolved about it. And we're also tipped off about a possibly absurd(in a good way) conclusion by the humerous tone throughout.

So I really never felt confused. I didn't need to know where the spiders came from. I expected an appropriately ridiculous finale and wasn't disappointed.

I'll skip discussing Libertine, confusion was not the issue there. Instead consider Jeff's script. We didn't know exactly where this invasion came from. Presumably from another world. We didn't know what the gathering was about. But I don't think we needed to. It's familiar ground: an invading creature that takes over the host and is spreading. I don't think clarity was an issue. We knew enough to proceed through the story.

I'll compare Jeff's script to the one Dena and I did, which did have more of a clarity issue. Jeff's alien spreads physically through a kind of shooting quil. We see it happen, so there's no confusion. In our story, we have a serial killer that is able to abandon one body for another, jumping ship. The challenge with that is showing it. There are probably ways to do it, but we didn't have the time to think of them or are not clever enough, especially in a short/single scene script. Those clarity issues made it a harder read.

The Ganglers was more complicated, but nonetheless perfectly clear by end as everything is revealed.

This is also why I am in favor of SOME unfilmables. If an actor can portray it, and an unfilmable can make it clearer to the reader, then why not?

My point on the vampire was that I could simply write a vampire attacking people and not need to explain where it came from. An alien from space, do we really need to know exactly where it came from? The planet it came from is inconsequential. Once we start adding this information we are adding layers of drama.

As with anyhting else this all comes down to balance. Some things will need to be explained, but not everything does.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

I agree completely...some things need to be explained, and others do not.

As my good friend, Warren, keeps asking, who makes that decision? Well, obviously, the writer does, and sometimes the writer makes the right call, and others, he makes the wrong call.

If your story is set in the pacific Northwest, and a Sasquatch is your Antag, no explanation whatsoever is required. But, if your Antag turns out to be an African lion, you better let us know how it got there and what the Hell it's doing there.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

True - but...there are things we might need to know.

Vampire mythology is almost universally known now. No need to fill in the blanks.

But using your Alien from Space is an example - no, don't need to know where the Alien came from. But we might need to know something about it - it's Achilles heel, it's preferred prey, etc. etc and the story would be enhanced if we know the motivation of the characters. e.g., you can just have a spaceship humming along - or you could have a spaceship with a specific mission - the latter is more fulfilling for me as a reader.

I'll use your Libertine as an example - you could have just had any ole boat with men on it that are eventually murdered by a witch. Instead you have a slave ship with characters that have clearly different motivations - that's a ton more rewarding from a story perspective than just a ship at sea. We know why they're at sea, we know what they're objectives our - we have context for the horror that follows and have differing degrees of empathy for the victims of the horror. I think that is what Warren really was referencing when he started the thread.

Quoted from Dreamscale

If your story is set in the pacific Northwest, and a Sasquatch is your Antag, no explanation whatsoever is required. But, if your Antag turns out to be an African lion, you better let us know how it got there and what the Hell it's doing there.

I actually think this was Warren's point. If you believe this - then the only disagreement you two would have on the topic is whether or not an African Lion is common in the Northwest. I'm guessing you both would say no.

How much do you need to know?

It all depends on the tone, the mood you are going for, the purpose of the story.

For instance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=80&v=B8jeRXK_U7U

Let's pretend for a second that the thing in that video was real, and it was hostile. We don't know what it is, no one does. It is the Unknown. Perhaps some weird, invisible/chameleon amphibious entity, perhaps a spirit, perhaps a figment of the imagination.

If you write a story about that and all it does it randomly kill people for no reason, it would be a fairly generic horror, and the fact you know nothing about it doesn't really work.

If, on the other hand, you craft a story around a strong theme about how "it's always the unknown danger that gets you" then it could work very well. You can imagine the main character being a guy that is super prepared, so prepared that he survives the tsunami. He's particular about everything because he has a deep fear of something that perhaps even he can't verbalise or understand that has affected his life, his relationships, and led him to be this character who over prepares. The unknown creature is then a metaphor for his inner turmoil and the fact there is always a variable in life that is going to get you. It's a story literally about fear of the unknown...to paraphrase H.P Lovecraft: Horror is about Fear, and the greatest and most primal fear of all is fear of the unknown...and it works perfectly.

Or it's a story presented as a murder mystery...survivors of the Tsunami are being picked off. Some people claim to have seen this creature...but are they lying? Delusional? Are they really killing off the survivors themselves for some reason? Then the main character thinks he might have seen it. But did he? He's not sure...is it just suggestion that made him see it, after all it was dark...etc etc. You might never find out the truth about whether it's even real but you can still craft a really great story about it.

Basically, you can have something completely unknown, but you have to have very strong clarity elsewhere about other things.

At the other extreme where you need to know a lot....that's actually a lot harder to imagine. Generally with horror the more you know, the less scary it is, because you've rationalised it.

If you give Michael Myers a backstory of abuse and humanise him, he becomes a sad little victim and not scary anymore. If the weird shadow creature that's terrorising a family is a quantum experiment, it's not frightening anymore. In a horror story that kind of reveal generally ends the feeling of fear and often takes it into the realm of the ridiculous and destroys the suspension of disbelief.

I think you'd only really need to know a great deal if the core of the story was about knowledge itself...Let's say the kind of fear that keeps some technologists awake at night: their fear that they are going to make humans obsolete, whilst at the same time being obsessed with continuing their research into artificial intelligence. There is a real horror in that, and you'd have to go into huge detail to really make it work.

Quoted from Dreamscale

I agree completely...some things need to be explained, and others do not.

As my good friend, Warren, keeps asking, who makes that decision? Well, obviously, the writer does, and sometimes the writer makes the right call, and others, he makes the wrong call.

If your story is set in the pacific Northwest, and a Sasquatch is your Antag, no explanation whatsoever is required. But, if your Antag turns out to be an African lion, you better let us know how it got there and what the Hell it's doing there.

I think the story would have to address the issue....but you wouldn't need to know how it got there.

Jeff runs through the bushes.

JEFF
Run, it's a fucking Lion!

WARREN
There are no fucking Lions in the fucking Pacific Northwest.

JEFF
You fucking tell it that it doesn't exist, then.

The Lion comes through the bushes. :P

Maybe it/they have escaped from a zoo, or been abandoned by private owners...that can be discussed by the characters, if they've got time...but you'd never need to know definitively.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films

Does it eat Jeff?

Quoted from eldave1

Does it eat Jeff?

Jeff and Warren are Bigfoot hunters. They've got all the gear...infrared, night vision, trail cams, motion detectors etc They're going to catch the big fella on vid.

At night, their little alarms go off, they've caught something big on one of the trail cams...that looks strangely like a Lion.

It is a Lion. And it's hungry.

They get chased by it, mauled by it. On the point of starvation, blood loss and death, they manage to get away from it by crossing a ravine.

Then Bigfoot kills them both and feeds them to his family and his pet Lion, whom he'd let out for some exercise.

Anyone here ever watch the movie "The Guest". Practically no information whatsoever is given to us the audience, but there is a coherent logic to all of the antagonists actions. The writer of the film has said that he had written scenes where the antagonists backstory was explained, but the scenes where scrapped because he felt it was better to leave stuff up for interpretation. Sometimes what you don't know is scarier than what you do know.

Great movie by the way. ;D

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films

Nice twist! I think the next OWC should be based on SS members

Quoted from Zack

Have not seen it

Quoted from eldave1

Have not seen it

Check it out, Dave. It's a strange film that is sort of The Terminator and Halloween rolled into one. Really fun flick.

Quoted from Zack

Anyone here ever watch the movie "The Guest".

Loved that movie! Great music too. I saw an RLM interview where the writer talked about how he tried to put as many Halloween references as possible... which I'm sure you appreciated.

Quoted from Zack

Check it out, Dave. It's a strange film that is sort of The Terminator and Halloween rolled into one. Really fun flick.

Will do

Quoted from MarkItZero

Loved that movie! Great music too. I saw an RLM interview where the writer talked about how he tried to put as many Halloween references as possible... which I'm sure you appreciated.

Great interview. I agree that the music is fantastic. I'd love to get the soundtrack.

And yes, I love all the many different Halloween references. ;D The movie seems like it was tailor made for me.

I'm not sure I understand...

This is about how a person may use a lack of understanding as a reason to not like a script in an OWC.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Then I said that I don’t agree because I review non OWC scripts in the same way.

Quoted from Warren

I don't agree, a story that doesn't make sense for me is always going to be less satisfying.

I have made similar comments on non OWC scripts, and my advice has been the same; give it meaning, give the characters purpose.

I'm not saying a story that isn't explained isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea, but it's not going to be mine.

This is all personal opinion of course.

I didn’t say everything needs to be explained, there just needs to be enough for me to buy into the story. I agree that some people are happy just to go with it, all I'm saying is that I'm not one of those people and the fact that it's an OWC script has no bearing on this particular issue.

Quoted from DustinBowcot

I've talked about vampires in a separate post, they have an established 'legend', while we know they don’t exist, we know the rules by which they operate. So it is easy to alter your perception.

If however I don’t know the 'rules' that this thing operates by, then for me, personally, it is not as enjoyable. I prefer to know the motivations of the antagonists and protagonists.

I've never said this can’t be done, or that it shouldn’t. I also pointed out on the other thread that there are many movies like this and especially in the horror genre, but just because they exist and have an audience doesn’t mean I have to like them, and I generally don't.

For examples sake, feel free to check out this reviews I did for a non OWC script. I bring up the exact same issues. Or don't, either way...

https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-shorthr/m-1554063470/

Okay, so I really need to get some things off my chest.   This thread seems to be the only signs of activity on SS, so indulge me for a few moments...

Let's start with the last fifteen years of my screenwriting career.

In 2014, I was contacted by a low budget production house called 30 Something Productions to redraft an original script of mine titled Squad Room to fit the parameters of what they were interested in shooting.  Which was a low budget street cop drama with edge, kind of like Training Day.  I went on to complete four additional drafts with the understanding that the final draft was for sure going into production with Jason Ritter and Michael Gross on board.  After several months of back and forth, 30 Something and said director Doug Elford-Argent stopped communication.  The film was never shot and I never heard from him or his wife again.

In 2016, I was contacted about a found footage script titled The Creeps (aka The Night Watchers), optioned for a small fee and was later produced.  I made several attempts to contact said director and producer and was never contacted again.  The film never completed post production and most of the cast have also refused to respond to any inquries.  They seriously won't return my messages.  At least tell me to fuck off.

Also that year, my scripts HOA and The Anarchist's Playground were optioned for a modest fee and was told that both projects were starting pre-production later that year.  After two short emails,  both directors cut contact and never heard from either of them again.

Also that year, I was contacted by an Atlanta "producer and director" about penning an original micro budget action flick -- later titled 3 G, an urban thriller that perfectly fit the parameters of the director's vision.  I completed the script and never heard from him again.

In 2017, I made my first outright sale to JHC 3 Group with my sci fi script Redwood: A UFO Story.  It was a decent payday and no real complaints.  But I never heard from them again and can't find any evidence that they exist.

In 2019, I'm contacted about my script HOA, for the second or third time now, and was recently told that they were SHOOTING IN MAY.  After a brief conversation with one of the cast members, this is indeed not the case.  There is no shooting schedule, no money and no plans on shooting anything in the foreseeable future.   The last I checked, they were recording themselves doing skateboard tricks.

Going back a few years...

In 2005, I penned what was intended to be a 35mm feature thriller called The Utah Murder Project which caught the interest of a then unknown Blake Lively, Amy Smart, Oz Perkins and a very young Nicole Travolta.  After two years of attempting to raise the funds for production, the director gave up and decided to shoot a micro budget horror film...

...and that film would be called Dark Games.  A film that had such names as Martin Kove, Jeff Conaway, Brian Thompson, Danny Trejo and a little known rising star named Booboo Stewart who was about to take off in the Twilight Saga and X Men films.

After discovering a huge internet following of Booboo Stewart, I began begging and pleading with the director to self promote and self package the film to online buyers.  Young ladies who were DESPERATE to see Booboo's latest movie.  We all would have made a KILLING.  He refused and cut contact.  I haven't spoken with him in eight years.

So, here we are.  And I am not sure I want to continue this journey as I've come to learn that most so called producers, filmmakers, directors you meet online are completely full of shit.  No one ever follows through with most of what comes out of their big mouths and it's a big slap in the face to the writers who have put so much time and effort into crafting their work.

I'm not sure I can call my self any kind of real screenwriter as I've discovered the last fifteen or so years has been all for not.  Dealing with frauds, fakers, jive ass producers with fake Imdb credentials and flashy instagrams and people who want something for nothing.

Has anyone else here ever gotten royally fucked??  Or am I a special case??  With regard to production, I've not once had a good experience with anyone.  I don't get it.

Quoted from ericdickson

Has anyone else here ever gotten royally fucked?? Or am I a special case?? With regard to production, I've not once had a good experience with anyone. I don't get it.

Yes everyone has been screwed, but I've also had amazing experience with good people who’ve kept me in the loop at every step. Some of which have remained friends.

Maybe you are the common denominator :P

Quoted from Warren

All it takes is a single email.  Eric, we don't really have any money.  And we're really not gonna shoot this thing at all.

Or something like that.  Why the lies?  Why the puffing up of their own brand, then not following through on anything.  I've been nothing but courteous and polite, and have bent over backwards with rewrites.

Pay the writer.  It's that simple.  Pay them up front for the option and then lose their number.  Don't bullshit them for six months if you're not serious.

THEY contacted me.  Not the other way around.  But why?  What for if you're not serious about what you're doing?  Don't get it.

>:(

Quoted from eldave1

Agreed.

But I think it's safe to say there is no right or wrong answer, only what a viewer’s/reader's preference is and how much they’re willing to accept.

I basically said everything I needed to say in the original thread. I totally accept that people can have differing opinions on this. I just don’t think it’s fair to say either one is wrong.

If I don’t like your script, your OWC script, or a film because shit doesn’t make sense, that's allowed. It's not my problem as a consumer if I didn’t enjoy it because it didn’t make sense, that lies with the writer who is obviously allowed to do what they want.

My original thoughts can be found here:

https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/m-1556059353/

Quoted from ericdickson

I totally agree with you. I just don’t think it will change. There are always going to be people that suck.

It's even hard to screen the good from the bad as initial contact can be great and very quickly turn negative.

I just don’t understand the point of the post? If it’s just a rant to get some things off your chest, that’s fine, shit can get stressful. But what is the takeaway? What have we learned? What can we do to make things better going forward?

Quoted from ericdickson

Eric, I can only sympathise. The writer unfortunately (unless famous) is at the bottom of the totem pole. I've been in a slump when emails have gone unanswered after very excited filmmakers have signed on the dotted line for Shorts, and nothing has come of it. And also when scripts have been made without my knowledge or permission, and then made badly.

I think you've had a particular run of bad luck with unconscionable people who've probably run out of money and are devoid of common courtesy.

Perhaps the only way around it is in the fine details of the contract. You give them the Contract on your terms, not the other way around, unless of course it's Netflix et al.

Get paid for the Option, an amount you specify, and/or for rewrites and then at least you've been financially compensated.

You clearly have some sought after feature film scripts (and if names are attached) I'd be using that clout to acquire an Agent.

Quoted from Warren

I may put a disclaimer on all my title pages.

If you have no intention of compensating writer, please do not contact.

At least when I don't hear back, I'll know where I stand.

I may be onto something here.

Quoted from LC

As far as good names involved...

Who knows if that was all bullshit too. I've been told all kinds of things that never came to fruition. The reason I posted this long tirade is to see if there were others who've been burned as badly as me. I was starting to get a complex.

Quoted from ericdickson

So you’ve deleted the original thread, but these were my comments to a now changed piece...

But in all seriousness, what’s the point of this other than to have a rant?

This literally happens to everyone, and I can guarantee it’s never going to change so saying this...

"Let's talk about something important. Like how full of shit most people are."

Achieves about as much as any other thread that...

" really doesn't go anywhere or help to accomplish anything"

It’s really just a massive post about your massively unlucky writing career.

I can’t drop any names but I've had two shorts filmed that were never completed and I lost contact, I’ve lost contact with many filmmakers that had options, I’ve had films deep in preproduction and lost contact.

What’s the lesson learned, or how do we make things better as we go forward? Well we don’t, as writers we suck it up and either keep going or throw in the towel, simple as that.

BUT NOW…

You then told me you could say what you want because... America.

But all I was trying to do was further your discussion, so your comment is pretty odd.

You noted in the other thread that some threads and lines of discussion...

" really doesn't go anywhere or help to accomplish anything"

Then I ask what you are trying to accomplish and you shoot me down with some freedom of speech BS.

You obviously realised how petty the comment was and that’s why you deleted it, I’m just confused why you would take that route.

Anyway… best of luck to you. Hopefully something works out soon.

Quoted from ericdickson

Thank you, that’s all I was asking.

Yes this is probably an idea you could work with.

Quoted from LC

I think this is some good advice as well.

So much goes into getting that end result, maybe ensuring you are compensated correctly along the way will take some of the sting out of not getting all the way there if something falls through.

Yes, I deleted because I was wrong.  And it's not worth getting into a holy war over.

I'm gonna have a beer and watch some Cheers on Netflix.

I think most of us have stories like this. I wrote a script for a guy who wanted to keep it in his drawer and show to his friends. He paid... so I don't care what he does with it. I've written a feature too for a first-time wannabe producer, she also paid, who never did become a producer. A feature for a director who soured on the idea and went on to make something else. Not to mention all the shorts that have gone nowhere... or been made badly.

After 15 years though, I'd be pissed too. I started in 2014. I suppose it depends on your aims. If you're in this to make it as a writer as I am then every year that passes would make you angrier.

I feel that the most important thing a writer can have is hunger and the desire to succeed. Now you're single, and somewhat angry, inject that passion into your work and write the best thing you've ever written.

Thanks for the discussion on horrors and rules. I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the subject. Just to clarify, this isn’t a rant about people not scoring scripts because they insisted on rules, more of an exploration around if audiences would enjoy a horror if they didn’t understand the rules.

Vampires was mentioned a few times. One of the earliest stories about a vampire was Varney The Vampire, also known as The Feast Of Blood, written in 1845. If you have a lot of time on your hands (as it is huge) I’d recommend a read. It’s brilliant. The ‘Vampire’ in that isn’t given an explanation – it just is. It also doesn’t operate on the rules modern vampires operate under. Part of the horror of the story is this creature that shouldn’t exist, existing and doing horrible things.

Fast-forward to Freddie Kruger, Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees. Killers who go on rampages using supernatural means. In the original movies they just did coz they were bad people. Subsequent movies tried to explain their origin and instil some rules into their existence. These sucked.

A more modern horror movie, Us. I won’t go into specifics in case it spoils it for those who hasn’t seen in but the ‘explanation’ the movie comes up with makes no logical sense whatsoever. Neither does the twist in my opinion. However, what makes this movie enjoyable and such a success is the moments when the main characters are being chased and attacked by ‘Us’. They have no idea why, it’s a crazy situation but when you are being attacked it doesn’t matter if you are being attacked by something you believe is real and something that is impossible; you are being attacked. And it is obvious from the reviews the audience love this aspect, many don’t get or buy the explanation at all but it doesn’t matter – they enjoy the scary bits.

For me I think readers takes too much of a logical viewpoint when reviewing a script (and I’m not just on about the OWC but the industry in general) and say things like, I don’t think this is obvious enough, or this needs to be explained , or I don’t think the audience will get this and then they add stuff to make it ‘clearer’ not realising that audiences sat in the seat will go for the ride if they dig the characters and enjoy the action. The explanation is secondary.

The industry thinks the modern audience wants everything explained, I don’t think they do but that’s my opinion.

Thanks for the discussion. It has been fun.

As for the hijacking topic (grr lol!) about producers etc. going dark and silent after showing an interest in your work, I feel your pain and from the comments of others, we all do. Like Dustin, I only started on this journey around 2014 and there are dark days when I question everything.

I had a short filmed in December 2018 in New York. I last heard from the director in February and all was going great with post-production, since then nothing and he’s not answering my emails. Why? Why seek me out (which he did) option my script, work on it with me for 9 months, film it and then – wham…nothing? He may get back in touch at some point, I don’t know but why not send me an email just letting me know what’s going on?

I currently have 5 scripts optioned. Again, every one of the directors approached me, I didn’t go to them. 4 of the scripts are in limbo with the directors disappearing and one is currently progressing nicely but I have serious doubts this will ever see the light of day. However, I got paid for the option so the way I see it, at least I made some money from it and once the options expire, they all return to me.

So in the meantime, I carry on with new projects and promote existing ones. That’s all I can do. It’s all any of us can do. This seems to be the nature of this beast we are in. I know some folks who are further up the chain than me, with serious players and investments involved and it’s just the same, actually, it can get a whole lot nastier. Not answering emails and silently dropping projects is the least of their issues.

At least now you know you are not the only one, not sure if that helps or not but I hope it does!

Quoted from DustinBowcot

Thanks for sharing. It seems we've all had similar experiences.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw

Telling me they are shooting in May less than two weeks ago and finding out this isn't even close to the truth is what confuses the hell out of me. I get running out of post production money and abandoning the project for whatever reason.

It boils down to making sure the other party is willing to pay for the option, right off the bat, and knowing how to put your foot down when they talk in circles. I can't tell you how many times I've worked on rewrites for nothing.

Quoted from ericdickson

So, here we are.  And I am not sure I want to continue this journey as I've come to learn that most so called producers, filmmakers, directors you meet online are completely full of shit.  No one ever follows through with most of what comes out of their big mouths and it's a big slap in the face to the writers who have put so much time and effort into crafting their work.

I'm not sure I can call my self any kind of real screenwriter as I've discovered the last fifteen or so years has been all for not.  Dealing with frauds, fakers, jive ass producers with fake Imdb credentials and flashy instagrams and people who want something for nothing.

Has anyone else here ever gotten royally fucked??  Or am I a special case??  With regard to production, I've not once had a good experience with anyone.  I don't get it.

I hate to tell you, but you are not a special case. I think most of us who've been around for awhile have had the same frustrating experiences. We've been lied to, stolen from, pissed on and even shat on. It's frustrating and even depressing. Most of the time though, I think it's because people have big plans and ideas, but it's that "little" thing called money that grinds thing to a halt. From a producer/directors perspective, it's not easy making a film come together. Besides the costs involved, it's a little bit like herding cats. Your cast and crew can't always be relied on unless they get paid, then that part changes somewhat. Whenever I make a film I always try to show my appreciation for all involved's talent. Actors, DP, make-up and so on. The two times I have filmed something that someone else wrote, one of them basically just said, Thanks, when we showed him the film. He didn't care at all, so that was a little disappointing. The other time the writer was much more appreciative, but I learned something else. Something very depressing from a writer's point of view. It was a two day shoot and everyone including cast and crew had a paper copy of the script in their hands. On the second day, I asked everyone not to peek at the script and then asked if anyone could tell me the name of the writer. It was on the freaking cover page! No one knew the writer's name. I think when that realization hit me, it was one of the most depressing days in my writing experience. This is the reality and I hear it every day from writers. We are the lowest rung on the ladder. :-/

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