Quoted from Takeshi Okay. Whilst reading some of the OWC scripts it occurred to me that some of the scripts I read were horror not drama and I pointed that out in two of my posts. However, the posts that followed mine more or less disputed what I said. One person basically said it doesn't matter if people stick to the genre or not and the other said that drama isn't a genre. Well, first of all, I think it does matter if people haven’t stuck to the genre, because if nobody stuck to the genre then it would be pointless nominating one. Secondly, it has always been my understanding that drama is a genre. What do you guys think?

My post was more out of frustration that people don't review the scripts seriously and every review starts looking the same when the next guy says what the guy above said.

Reviews are supposed to be your opinion on a given script and not the guy aboves opinion.

I'd rather get 2 reviews that MEAN something instead of 20 that don't.  My opinion.

Drama is a genre but it is also found in aspects of every other genre which blurs the line. Of course people would think that drama has to be tears and heartache with Dawson's Creek kinds of emotion but in my opinion it can be whatever the writer makes it.

It is like comedy. One persons idea of comedy may not be funny to you but that doesn't mean it's not comedy.

I apply the video shelving rule to my genre categories.  Would anything written for the challenge show up on the Drama shelf or would it go into Action, Horror, Sci-Fi?  

Would it be grouped with Evening, The Painted Veil and A Mighty Heart (which are on the first page of drama in Netflix for me)?

I haven't read all the entries but the ones I have I wouldn't place on the Drama shelf.  

Just because Drama has a section at the DVD store does not make it a genre. My point was that all film is Drama, everything is a drama film. It is just that some films cannot be easily slotted into a genre due to the fact they deal primarily with the emotional issues of the characters but do not take place in a fantasy land, or in a horror setting for instance. So a film in the horror genre is still a drama. While Glengarry is in the drama section of netflix because they do not have a section for 'Sales Films". Imagine if there was a genre for "Sales Films" that would mean that Glengarry cannot be a drama because it must be a "Sales Film".

Drama is definitely, 100% not a genre. A drama is a dramatic film, a movie in the drama section of the video store is a dramatic film with no obvious genre, therefore is a drama but that does not make drama a genre.

Sniper gave A Few Good Men as an example. Let us say that leaving the script pretty much intact that 'A Few Good Men" was instead of being set in Guatanamo was instead set in the Vampire court of Vasgelerard. Instead of a solider being killed it was in fact a senior vampire elder who was hacked to death in a bloody mess. Now this would be put in the horror genre and would therefore cease to be a drama. Even though the courtroom scenes would stay exactly the same in that the movie is primarily about the Characters and their emotions.

From the dictionary..

Quoted Text dra·ma n. A prose or verse composition, especially one telling a serious story, that is intended for representation by actors impersonating the characters and performing the dialogue and action. A serious narrative work or program for television, radio, or the cinema. Theatrical plays of a particular kind or period: Elizabethan drama. The art or practice of writing or producing dramatic works. A situation or succession of events in real life having the dramatic progression or emotional effect characteristic of a play: the drama of the prisoner's escape and recapture. The quality or condition of being dramatic: a summit meeting full of drama.

Quoted from Takeshi Okay. Whilst reading some of the OWC scripts it occurred to me that some of the scripts I read were horror not drama and I pointed that out in two of my posts. What do you guys think?

I've read five or six of the OWC scripts and I found two of them to be more horror than drama.  Writing a different genre is practically cheating.  The point of the OWC is to see if you can write a particular script based on a particular genre and theme, and working with a tight deadline.

If a director asked you to write a dramatic short that involved a prison cell, how do you think he would feel if you gave him a script with zombies in it?  Or ghosts?  I'm going to guess that he would be disappointed in the script, no matter how well written it may be.  If he wanted horror, he would've asked for horror.

If I read anymore OWC scripts, and find that it's not following the genre/theme restrictions, my comments on it will be that the writer did not follow the guidelines.  I recommend that everyone else do the same.

It's one thing to use a little artistic license in a script; it's another things to simply ignore the rules.


Phil

The guy above you just said it wasn't a genre and makes good points. How is it cheating if it is not technically a genre?

That could be an argument...

Personally I don't care because mine never got any reviews saying "This doesn't follow the genre or theme" which means I did.

Maybe Don should have a committee of people who aren't going to participate that read the scripts and if they don't say "This follows the theme and genre" then it gets rejected.

That way nobody is complaining.

Quoted from Murphy Just because Drama has a section at the DVD store does not make it a genre. My point was that all film is Drama, everything is a drama film. It is just that some films cannot be easily slotted into a genre due to the fact they deal primarily with the emotional issues of the characters but do not take place in a fantasy land, or in a horror setting for instance. So a film in the horror genre is still a drama. While Glengarry is in the drama section of netflix because they do not have a section for 'Sales Films". Imagine if there was a genre for "Sales Films" that would mean that Glengarry cannot be a drama because it must be a "Sales Film". Drama is definitely, 100% not a genre. A drama is a dramatic film, a movie in the drama section of the video store is a dramatic film with no obvious genre, therefore is a drama but that does not make drama a genre. Sniper gave A Few Good Men as an example. Let us say that leaving the script pretty much intact that 'A Few Good Men" was instead of being set in Guatanamo was instead set in the Vampire court of Vasgelerard. Instead of a solider being killed it was in fact a senior vampire elder who was hacked to death in a bloody mess. Now this would be put in the horror genre and would therefore cease to be a drama. Even though the courtroom scenes would stay exactly the same in that the movie is primarily about the Characters and their emotions. From the dictionary..

Bear in mind that the dictionary is prescriptive, not descriptive. The fact of the matter is that drama (in terms of motion pictures) has been and is used as a genre everywhere (video-stores, IMDB, by actors, directors, studios, audiences) and we all know what a drama means. Quibbling over semantics is missing the point, I think. Drama is a genre by virtue of it being treated as such by almost everyone involved in film-making and watching. It's an extra-lexical consensus, you might say.

David Bordwell in the seminal textbook Film Art argues that genre is easier to recognize than define. I think that's true because we all know what drama means in terms of movies, don't we? We all recognize it. Certain titles spring to mind and so on.

I understand your vampire movie example, but you're operating under the assumption that genres can't merge. the movie you're talking about would be classified a horror/drama, much like Emily Rose was. Supernatural creatures like vampires are inherently loaded with horror (unless you you spoof them) in that they have an entire mythos surrounding them - the entire undead, bloodsucking creatures of the night thing. the question is if, in your court-room vampire flick, there are no vampires sucking blood from anyone, is it really a vampire movie? Could you imagine a movie whre vampires would be vampires only because we were told they were? Wouldn't your movie just be A Few Good Men - with toothy albinos?

Quoted from Old Time Wesley The guy above you just said it wasn't a genre and makes good points. How is it cheating if it is not technically a genre? That could be an argument....

But it would be a poor argument, IMHO.

As DM pointed out, the definition listed above is not an appropriate definition.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary better describes drama as:

Quoted Text a composition in verse or prose intended to portray life or character or to tell a story usually involving conflicts and emotions through action and dialogue and typically designed for theatrical performance : play — compare closet drama b: a movie or television production with characteristics (as conflict) of a serious play; broadly : a play, movie, or television production with a serious tone or subject    2: dramatic art, literature, or affairs 3 a: a state, situation, or series of events involving interesting or intense conflict of forces b: dramatic state, effect, or quality

One you start throwing in zombies or talking animals or fairies, you're taking away the human condition.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Personally I don't care because mine never got any reviews saying "This doesn't follow the genre or theme" which means I did. Maybe Don should have a committee of people who aren't going to participate that read the scripts and if they don't say "This follows the theme and genre" then it gets rejected. That way nobody is complaining.

There will always be someone to complain.


Phil

Quoted from Murphy I can't really argue with what you say Sniper. Glengarry Glen Ross is a good one to bring up and I cannot disagree with what you say at all, I would not be able to call it anything else but a drama. But I would still use drama in the anti-genre sense. Not that there is anything wrong with calling it a drama but I would not want to exclude any other character driven movie from being called  a drama just because it is also a horror or a comedy for instance.

You answered your question right there, Murphy. If you can't call a movie anything other than a drama, then it's a drama. So therefore the genre exists.

Films like: American Beauty, Krammer versus Krammer, Broadcast News, Cool Hand Luke, Giant, Ghandi, The Ice Storm and The Sweet Hereafter are all dramas. They're not comedies or horrors with elements of drama in them, they are dramas.

Sure there’re hybrid genres that have an equal share of drama and comedy, or drama and horror, but there’re also movies that are predominantly dramas and are therefore called dramas.  

  
    

Quoted from dogglebe One you start throwing in zombies or talking animals or fairies, you're taking away the human condition.

Not when it is the story of humans dealing with an attack of Zombies as most if not all Zombie films are about.


I am not gonna win this one so will bow out, but wanted to repeat that this whole thread was started because in some peoples eyes the OWC script "Repetition" is not a drama. I think that is certainly not the case. It is dealing with someone with severe mental problems having conversation with his inner demons, how anyone can say this is not dramatic is beyond me. If you want to call it Horror/Drama then do so, but it is a piece of drama.

Quoted from Takeshi You answered your question right there, Murphy. If you can't call a movie anything other than a drama, then it's a drama. So therefore the genre exists.

When used in the video store shelf way it is an anti-genre.

Red Light
Green Light
Orange Light

All 'Lights'

A white light is rarely called a 'white light' it is usually called just a 'light'. Ask someone to shine a light on something you are expecting a normal white light. If they shine a red light you are gonna say "i never asked for a red light did I?"

So a 'light' becomes a genre of a white light colour, but that does not mean that the other colour lights are not 'lights'. They are just a 'light' with a genre, the white light does not have a genre.

Quoted from dogglebe If I read anymore OWC scripts, and find that it's not following the genre/theme restrictions, my comments on it will be that the writer did not follow the guidelines.

Maybe if we would actually have Horror once in a while, people would not be so compelled to stick it in where it doesn't belong.

The primary genre that the majority of members love to write and read is consistently ignored -- and that is why it keeps slipping into the challenge.

Quoted from dogglebe There will always be someone to complain.

Haha -- yeah, that's me.  Sorry.  But I read a whole boatload of scripts this time around, so I can hop onto my soapbox guilt-free.

Quoted from Murphy Not when it is the story of humans dealing with an attack of Zombies as most if not all Zombie films are about.

Zombie scripts, for the most part, are about blood and gore and people turning into zombies after getting bitten.

Quoted from Murphy I am not gonna win this one so will bow out, but wanted to repeat that this whole thread was started because in some peoples eyes the OWC script "Repetition" is not a drama. I think that is certainly not the case. It is dealing with someone with severe mental problems having conversation with his inner demons, how anyone can say this is not dramatic is beyond me. If you want to call it Horror/Drama then do so, but it is a piece of drama.

Repitition, IMHO, was drama.  It was about personal torment and guilt.

Maybe, with future OWC, we'll have to include a rule about no multiple genre scripts.  People complained a while back that the genre/themes were getting tough.  But when easier ones are announced, people go wide with it.


Phil

Quoted from bert Maybe if we would actually have Horror once in a while, people would not be so compelled to stick it in where it doesn't belong. The primary genre that the majority of members love to write and read is consistently ignored -- and that is why it keeps slipping into the challenge.

You don't need the OWC to write a horror script.  Just write one!  When last Halloween's OWC was comedy, a bitchstorm started because people wanted to write horror.  WTF is stopping these people?  You wan t to write your zombie script, then write a zombie sript.  But if the OWC is a drama about a telephone repairman, don't write that the phone was broken by a horde of zombies.

That kind of crap you should be able to write on your own.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe You don't need the OWC to write a horror script.  Just write one!

Yes, but people like to play the game -- and horror is alot of fun for alot of members.  The OWC always gets people fired up, but horror does that best.

And I will state for a flat-out, undeniable fact, you get more non-player readers when the genre is horror.

I am veering way off topic here -- I would hate to have to mod myself -- though it's been done before.

I agree that Drama is somewhat nebulous as a genre, and the reason I piped up was the idea of people being penalized for writing a Horror/Drama hybrid.

One of the best scripts this time around -- and I've read most -- has many trappings of a horror script.

Fine, the next OWC will be horror....

bunch of cry babies.



Phil